Next long range AR, what caliber?

[dyecocker1]

Looking to build an AR, 10 or 15, makes no difference to me. Wondering what would be the next great thing or maybe something old. I already have a 308 win, 338L, 224 Valk and 6.5L in bolt guns but am not against duplicates. Would like something I could stretch the legs on, I have plenty of short range AR's already and have a private 1 mile range to use. Figured I would try my hand at a semi in long range config. Am not interested in 6.5 Creed. The one thing I like about a AR15 class caliber would be a little cost savings most likely over a AR10 caliber. What can you talk me into?

Edit: I do handload so factory ammo costs mean nothing

 

[The DFC]

How come no 6.5cm? Just curious.

 

[LeadZeke]

I mean...you have a mile to stretch out to. So a .300WSM from KAK (can also build off their bolts).

 

[The DFC]

260 rem is what first came to my mind after reading your post.

 

[dyecocker1]

How come no 6.5cm? Just curious.

I have a 6.5 Lapua and it does everything I need. The Creed is a little, for lack of a better word, overrated, and trendy IMHO. I mean, who doesn't have one? LOL

I mean...you have a mile to stretch out to. So a .300WSM from KAK (can also build off their bolts).

Not interested in an XL frame rifle, If I wanted to spend 10k I would probably just get a semi 338

 

[Constructor]

Long range AR15 a 22 cal Grendel - 224 LBC, 224 Predator all the same thing. 80gr ELD around 3000-3100fps beats the 88s, 90s and 95s at slower velocities.

 

[502Chevelle]

I just built a 22 Grendel. Unfortunately I literally just finished it, and am doing the brass now, so I can’t give you any actual useful info other than what you can find online. However, I will add, I drive a small frame gas gun better than I drive a bolt gun. I know that goes against most opinions, but it works for me. The thought of sending 80 eldm’s at long range from a small frame AR is worth a hard look. When I get the brass done, and some laid development done, I will post a good detailed article on here. Should be in about a month.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I have a 6.5 Lapua and it does everything I need. The Creed is a little, for lack of a better word, overrated, and trendy IMHO. I mean, who doesn't have one? LOL

Not interested in an XL frame rifle, If I wanted to spend 10k I would probably just get a semi 338

Doesnt sound like your aware that The KAK 300wsm upper bolts on DPMS AR10 lowers. You could also have a .308 upper and Just about the easiest caliber swap any gun there is.

That's what I would do if I wanted a "longer range" AR than the .308 and 6.5cm uppers that already have..

 

[dyecocker1]

Doesnt sound like your aware that The KAK 300wsm upper bolts on DPMS AR10 lowers. You could also have a .308 upper and Just about the easiest caliber swap any gun there is.

That's what I would do if I wanted a "longer range" AR than the .308 and 6.5cm uppers that already have..

Sorry I misread your first post. I took is as 300 WIN MAG.

 

[dyecocker1]

Long range AR15 a 22 cal Grendel - 224 LBC, 224 Predator all the same thing. 80gr ELD around 3000-3100fps beats the 88s, 90s and 95s at slower velocities.

This is one answer I expected to get. Definitely a contender. Another thing I like about the AR15 chassis is the ability to use a Superlative arms piston kit and have a nice clean running rifle.

 

[BoulderE89]

theres always the 6.5 Grendel as well. Can work up loads to reach out to 1K yards and if you build it light it would be a solid hunting rifle choice if you are in a state that could hunt with it.

 

[Rocketvapor]

"Figured I would try my hand at a semi in long range config. "

You could run it NO-Gas and also have a clean rifle.

 

[dyecocker1]

"Figured I would try my hand at a semi in long range config. "

You could run it NO-Gas and also have a clean rifle.

May as well build another bolt gun

 

[dyecocker1]

theres always the 6.5 Grendel as well. Can work up loads to reach out to 1K yards and if you build it light it would be a solid hunting rifle choice if you are in a state that could hunt with it.

A friend of mine who shoots with me has a 6.5 Grendel. I have nothing against this round. My state and county allows you to hunt with anything you can fashion and call a weapon

 

[kingzero]

I second the 6.5 Grendel, or a fast twist 22 Creedmoor.....just because I want one.

 

[ed308]

7mm Valkyrie or 270MSR. AR15 Wildcats.

 

[knuckleballz]

I have looked at having craddock make a 7 saum chambered barrel with +2 gas for an ar10 receiver. You can buy a bolt from kak. The ejection port needs to be machined open a bit. The saum case is better suited for use in an ar10 platform than the wsm. You can run standard 308 magazines. I ended up finding a super deal on a falkor petra 300 win mag with a proof carbon barrel that shoots sub moa. The falkor magazines allow me to load 215 bergers long for better velocity.

 

[dyecocker1]

Anyone have thoughts on the 6mmAR Turbo Improved? I like the idea of a little heavier bullet than the 22 varieties offer

 

[Constructor]

Anyone have thoughts on the 6mmAR Turbo Improved? I like the idea of a little heavier bullet than the 22 varieties offer

Not worth the fire-forming. The 6mmAR only has around 1gr less powder capacity and shoots the same bullets. If you run both at the same pressure the regular chamber is only 30-40fps slower.

 

[Ravenworks]

This site should keep you busy,

Custom AR10 Rifles Accuracy Systems Gunsmith Gunsmithing AR 10

AR10 Rifles customized by Accuracy Systems Inc. ASI does custom gunsmithing, builds Custom Rifles and rifle Rebarreling on AR10 rifles.

ar-10-rifles.com

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I have a 6.5 Lapua and it does everything I need. The Creed is a little, for lack of a better word, overrated, and trendy IMHO. I mean, who doesn't have one? LOL

Thats kinda a non reason to rule out 6.5CM. I'd take it in a gas gun over 6.5L just because I could beat up and lose cheap Hornady brass and not lose any sleep.

 

[dyecocker1]

Thats kinda a non reason to rule out 6.5CM. I'd take it in a gas gun over 6.5L just because I could beat up and lose cheap Hornady brass and not lose any sleep.

In my experience you may as well throw out the Hornady brass before you even start

 

[dyecocker1]

This site should keep you busy,

Custom AR10 Rifles Accuracy Systems Gunsmith Gunsmithing AR 10

AR10 Rifles customized by Accuracy Systems Inc. ASI does custom gunsmithing, builds Custom Rifles and rifle Rebarreling on AR10 rifles.

ar-10-rifles.com

Not interested in buying complete, but a good reference. Thank you.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Not sure if it has been done but how about a 25 Creed ar10.

 

[Ravenworks]

Not interested in buying complete, but a good reference. Thank you.

I'm thinking you didn't even take a serious look there.
Those folks can cut you any weird caliber and bolt for an AR you'd ever want,with serious accuracy guarenteed.

 

[RTV]

Nemo Arms and falkor defense make a .300 win mag semi auto that my broke ass has been drooling over for years.
If I had the cash that's what I would spend it on... not big on complete rifles either but you cant really build your own .300 win mag AR haha

 

[dyecocker1]

I'm thinking you didn't even take a serious look there.
Those folks can cut you any weird caliber and bolt for an AR you'd ever want,with serious accuracy guarenteed.

I read through the website for quite some time actually, I dont doubt they make a fine machine. I am a builder, I dont get off on handing out money to someone else to do the work for me. If I need something custom I may be back.

Nemo Arms and falkor defense make a .300 win mag semi auto that my broke ass has been drooling over for years.
If I had the cash that's what I would spend it on... not big on complete rifles either but you cant really build your own .300 win mag AR haha

I would love to have a 300 or 338 AR, maybe down the road. I own a 338 bolt gun, I can eat ammo plenty fast as it is.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm thinking you didn't even take a serious look there.
Those folks can cut you any weird caliber and bolt for an AR you'd ever want,with serious accuracy guarenteed.

I looked pretty hard and all I saw was poor spelling and grammar. Makes it hard to want to do business.

 

[flatland1]

I've done 6 HAGAR & 6 RAT rifles for NRA across the course HP match shooting in the past. Both were most impressive while running 105VLDs at close to 2800fps out of 28" bbls with +2 gas ports and long tubes from WOA. As far as the short lines (200 & 300yds), it was hard to find loads in either of these 6mm wildcats that were much if any better than what I had in my 223 spacegun. Yes, you can run 87, 90, or even 100gr bullets loaded to mag length for rapid prone at 300, but the biggest issue I had was trying to find loads with any of those bullets that were as accurate as my S77MK loads for the 223. But single-loading 105VLDs for slow prone at 600 clearly shows the advantage of a 6mm round.

I liked the 6 RAT (basically identical to the 6mmAR Turbo Improved) so much that I bought my own reamer, and have built a 24" bbl'd AR15 w/Daniel Defense floating railed handguard (built to shoot some DMR-style practical matches we used to shoot), in addition to a couple of bolt rifles built on CZ527 & Howa Mini actions. Loads using H4895/CCI450/S95MKs are very nearly as good at 600 as those using 105VLDs, but are loaded to mag length. So far, all the brass I've fireformed for the RAT has been Lapua-made originally sold by Alexander Arms. But I've bought 750pcs of Starline 6.5 Grendel brass, and have started shooting it in a 22 Grendel Howa Mini with a Bartlein 1-6.8tw bbl. Not enough experience with it yet to offer a solid opinion on how it compares to the Lapua brass, but so far, I'm not seeing any issues with it.

 

[LeadZeke]

Yeah as others have said, you can buy the KAK bolt setup and run a standard AR10 system for everything else. RSAUM and/or WSM will run fine. You can argue 6.5mm, 7mm, or .30cal flavor of each, just remember that in an AR10 you are limited to 2.87in COAL if you mag feed (which is the point of the build I assume). Also you are limited to like 6-8 rounds per mag without doing a lot of modifications to mags or getting custom mags made (which Mad Dog Weapon Systems can do).

Still, the WSM or RSAUM AR10 build will by far and away provided the best external ballistics of anything you can get in a standard AR10 frame as of now. Since you have a mile range and this build is almost purely for the range I really don't see a point in fucking around with anything less potent.

 

[Constructor]

Yeah as others have said, you can buy the KAK bolt setup and run a standard AR10 system for everything else. RSAUM and/or WSM will run fine. You can argue 6.5mm, 7mm, or .30cal flavor of each, just remember that in an AR10 you are limited to 2.87in COAL if you mag feed (which is the point of the build I assume). Also you are limited to like 6-8 rounds per mag without doing a lot of modifications to mags or getting custom mags made (which Mad Dog Weapon Systems can do).

Still, the WSM or RSAUM AR10 build will by far and away provided the best external ballistics of anything you can get in a standard AR10 frame as of now. Since you have a mile range and this build is almost purely for the range I really don't see a point in fucking around with anything less potent.

The one problem is a good bolt and extractor that will work and not slam into the barrel extension while snapping over the rim. I had to clearance a few lugs on the barrel extension of those WSMs coming from AS when I lived in Colorado.

 

[dyecocker1]

Can anyone point me to the bolt on KAK website? Took a look, didnt see it.

Im am getting myself overloaded looking at calibers and now I want an AR 10 and 15 lol. Good thing Ill have a chance to settle down, probably wont build till next fall.

 

[steve123]

I would avoid both the WSSM's/15 and the SAUM's/10 because of finicky reliability. A friend and I didn't have good luck with them. Maybe others have???

Did 243 Win in a 10, kinda a waist in a 20" barrel, I couldn't get enough velocity with 105's, which is why I had bought it.

Then bought a 6mmART40 upper with Krieger barrel. I won some long range steel matches shooting against bolt rifles and all the big name cartridges. It was very accurate, shot some .3-.4" groups at 100y. I pushed velocity and was getting almost 2900 fps out of 26" with 105 amax.

One time after a match the guys were shooting at a 10" at 810Y, all bolt rifles except for my friend who was borrowing my 6mmART40. The steel was hit over and over in a row 6-7 times before he got bored, lol. Myself and the other bolt guys were a bit flabbergasted, lol.

Then got a 6mmFatRat upper. Wilson barrel doesn't shoot as good as that Krieger did but still shoots sub 1" since I found the bullet and load for it. I don't push it, 2870 fps with 95gr SMK in a 22". Does very well out to 1122Y which is as far as I've shot it. This load has been very reliable too!

So far I'm leaning towards staying with 6mmFatRat. I say this because a cartridge named 6mmGrinch is nearly the same except for it's a neck turn version, and has won short range benchrest comps against 6mmPPC in prestigious matches.

I'm guessing you use your other bolt rifles for ELR???

 

[stello1001]

7-08 or .243

Although the .243 could be a barrel burner...

 

[stello1001]

The fat rat is a good idea too

 

[dyecocker1]

I think no matter what caliber I choose the barrel will be a Bartlein I have several on bolt guns, and they are located in my back yard.

 

[LeadZeke]

Yeah, to be clear I'm ONLY talking about KAK, the set they came out with about two years ago now. They have worked out a new quality bolt with a good extractor and will sell you spares of everything (firing pin, extractor, bolt, extenions, etc): https://www.kakindustry.com/magnum That is their site and their parts, some gunsmiths (like Mad Dog Weapon Systems) are already familiar with them and use them, but KAK can always make you one as well. They will be reliable.

Absolutely DO NOT use Accuracy Systems.

 

[BMW]

I also have a 6fatrat with a 26” krieger on it. I’ve have 105 Berger’s running just over 2800. It’s hard to beat that performance and accuracy in an Ar15 platform.

 

[dyecocker1]

Well, I am weak. I ordered a Seekins SP10 builders kit and a matching IMRT Ar15 kit. Ill stick them away until I cant resist buying more parts then hit up Craddock and have some Bartlein barrels made.