So if money were no object, would you pick the NF 1-8 ATACR or the S&B 1-8 Dual CC for a 16” AR? And, why? I’m wanting an optic that is fast enough up close but with some longer range capability too. I think I’ve narrowed it down to those two because I have the most confidence in them from a durability standpoint. I don't want to buy the S&B just because it’s more expensive, but if it brings more to the table I don't mind spending the difference. Looking forward to hear what everyone thinks.
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Rifle Scopes NF 1-8 ATACR vs S&B 1-8 Dual CC
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I’m sure both scopes are excellent for what you want to do. Robustness could well be the deciding factor.
Vortex has a 1-10x Razor HD option now. Worth considering too.
Vortex has a 1-10x Razor HD option now. Worth considering too.
Both are inferior to the vortex 1-10. Go order one from Liberty Optics, save a few hundred bucks and patiently wait for them to drop ship.
I've looked at the new S&B 1-8 Dual CC and that is one sweet scope.
If money was no object and $5k was like pocket change, I'd get one for all my ARs
If money was no object and $5k was like pocket change, I'd get one for all my ARs
Dont own the NF, but I do have the S&B. If money isn't an object, get the S&B. If you are looking for a true value purchase, get the NF.
ETA: Like others have said, if you add the Gen III to the list, and still want a value purchase, I'd switch my recommendation to the Gen III.
This also assumes you have no preference in reticles as well?
I'll put in a call to Scott and see if he has any special deals he can do for hide members on one of those.
Dual CC comes the closest to date of having all the features a versatile LPVO should have to do serous precision work
- legit usable turrets for if/when you want to actually make precise adjustments at distance. I've hit 2/3 and 1/3 IPSC steel far beyond anything I would have expected.
- Useable LED daylight bright tech that's the same 1-8x but still have a FFP reticle
- A decent tree-style reticle that actually works with the magnification range and intended spirit of the optic
- Both illuminated reticle and dot-only controls comes in handy for NV stuff.
- Closest thing to "true 1x" one can get with the CC feature and is noticeable if you ever time yourself doing high-port ready-up drills for time.
Biggest cons are
- price... obviously
- 2nd FP center dot seems to "float" compared to the rest of the FFP reticle if one moves their head. Haven't seen any degradation of performance; merely noting it's a thing
- "CC" setting resets parallax to 7y while the optic stays at 100y parallax setting from 1-8x. This means more moving parts...and traditionally means a potential failure point (which would at the worst case leave someone stuck in "CC" mode). Seen this once in the older model, but it was handled by S&B quickly.
I've had ALL the Schmidts, NF's as well as 3x Kahles 1-6x, a hand full of Leupold including a couple of CQBSS's, and a Vortex Razor 1-6x.
I've been into the LPVO game a while going back to the original 1.1-4x20 Short Dot, and I can honestly say the 1-10 Vortex Gen 3 is one that I'll willingly skip.
- legit usable turrets for if/when you want to actually make precise adjustments at distance. I've hit 2/3 and 1/3 IPSC steel far beyond anything I would have expected.
- Useable LED daylight bright tech that's the same 1-8x but still have a FFP reticle
- A decent tree-style reticle that actually works with the magnification range and intended spirit of the optic
- Both illuminated reticle and dot-only controls comes in handy for NV stuff.
- Closest thing to "true 1x" one can get with the CC feature and is noticeable if you ever time yourself doing high-port ready-up drills for time.
Biggest cons are
- price... obviously
- 2nd FP center dot seems to "float" compared to the rest of the FFP reticle if one moves their head. Haven't seen any degradation of performance; merely noting it's a thing
- "CC" setting resets parallax to 7y while the optic stays at 100y parallax setting from 1-8x. This means more moving parts...and traditionally means a potential failure point (which would at the worst case leave someone stuck in "CC" mode). Seen this once in the older model, but it was handled by S&B quickly.
I've had ALL the Schmidts, NF's as well as 3x Kahles 1-6x, a hand full of Leupold including a couple of CQBSS's, and a Vortex Razor 1-6x.
I've been into the LPVO game a while going back to the original 1.1-4x20 Short Dot, and I can honestly say the 1-10 Vortex Gen 3 is one that I'll willingly skip.
I'm assuming then you had some significant dislikes with the Vortex Gen 3 one?
What one would you suggest in the $1k to just under $2k range?
I was also looking at the Primary Arms Platitum 1-8x on the low end and then the Vortex because some said it was pretty good.
I of course can't spring for the $4k on the S&B one.
There are several features of Gen 3 that are in opposition of what I look for in my LPVO's...the reticle has a lot going on that I don't like. I'm doing more now with several different optics that top out at 8x than I was doing with my old NF 2.5-10x42 so the extra 2x the Vortex brings means nothing to me in that respect.
Yeah, the Dual CC MSRP is stupid...and it seems S&B just had a price bump too :/.
I like the Vortex Razor HD2 E 1-6 for what it is...a general purpose optic. It's not going to do what a CQBSS H27d/Dual CC Short Dot/Gen 3 Razor are intended to do. I also like the Kahles 1-6 and think they made a few improvements on the 1-8x by the looks of it. Not sure if they can be had in that range still but if one can snag a Kahles on sale/discount with a reticle that suits you, that's a pretty good day.
I just bought the MOA (BDC) Gen 3 razor. I zeroed 2 MOA high at 100yds to get the BDC dialed in with my ammo. I'm going to take it to 550yds next weekend. I think it's a step up from the 1-6x if the BDC works out in actual shooting I'll be thrilled. The 1x is like an ampoint to me.
So I'm guessing this one is probably what you are talking about:
Kahles K18i 1-8x24i 3GR Illuminated
MPN 10662
I guess I'll call around and see if anyone has a super deal on it, possibly see if over the 4th or the end of the year someone has a really smoking sale on it.
I have the PA PL-x 1-8 ACSS Griffin and it's incredible. They'll add an ADM quick release mount for an extra $135. The Vortex 1-10 with 40% off is very attractive too in a similar price range. Nice reticle also.
I hit a 10" plate inside a car at 575 with a 12.5" govt profile BA barrel and 77 SMK's repeatedly with 3-5 mph wind. No problem shooting 2/3 IPSC out to 705 for fun either. The reticle and good glass sold me but all the other features are nice too. It's a bit heavy but sturdy.
Yeah, that 3GR was a little lacking in the 6x top end. Not wild about the dual-dot thing but it's a fairly no-nonsense hold reticle that can do decent work. Some like the rheostat illumination dial...I don't require it but it is what it is.
Ended up going with the S&B. Don’t know if it was the right choice but it doesn’t seem like the wrong one either.
The NF 1-8x scopes have been without question the most durable and reliable LPV’s so far. That ATACR above broke 100k rounds in February.
Performance wise dms pretty much laid it out. The ATACR’s are exceptionally reliable, function correctly, have true daylight usable illumination, a decent reticle, good turrets, good eyebox and FOV, and good on 1x.
The S&B Dual CC SD II’s have so far had no reliability or durability issues (though it’s too early to make a statement on that), has the best 1x of them all, true daylight bright SFP dot/FFP reticle which is ideal, reticle is the best in any LPV, and single turn, locking and roatation limited turrets.
Design and shooting performance wise the S&B SD II, Dual CC is the top. The NF 1-8x’s have very good performance with durability and reliability that are so far unmatched.
Really? In what way? How many rounds do you have on the Gen III? How about the 1-8x ATACR? The S&B 1-8x Dual CC?
I tried them both on a Mk 12. S&B downside was reticule. I also did not like the top end being 8X. Ended up selling both and going with S&B 5-20 Ultra Short H59. It's shorter than the S&B 1-8 and about the same weight though I don't recall exactly. It is perfect.
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It is very difficult to go wrong with this scope. It is a really exceptional design.
ILya
Darn, I just ordered the Vortex because of the good price but my gut was saying SAnd B or Kahles...I’ll trade good glass for magnification any day. Might have to send it back unopened. And go with the S and B....or if I’m not on meds, buy another NF...
I have a lot of high end scopes for ARs currently, but the S&B Dual Dot is on my short list on future builds.
For some, the way NF does the red dot portion of the reticle as four quandrants is problematic at high magnification, while the S&B dual CC keeps the red dot consistent in the SFP. That’s one of the major standout differences, but how important it is really depends on personal preference.
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