Rifle Scopes NF ATACR, S&B, or Leupold?

[Hammer_Man]

Ok last newbie question for now I promise. I’m considering a Leupold MK5 5-25 or 7-35, but I’m a bit hesitant to buy a Leupold, because of past issues I’ve read about here on the Hide. The other scopes in the running are the NF ATACR 7-35, or S&B PMII (probably 5-25 or 3-20 short). I can get a Leupold for pretty cheap due to Mil pricing, but I’d rather spend the extra $$ on a NF or S&B if that means getting a more durable/quality scope. Any advise?

This will be mounted on a 20” 308 gas gun, and I’d like to shoot out to 1000 meters eventually.

 

[Moose]

If you got the cash take a look at Zero Compromise scopes they are outstanding.The NF and S&B are also very good scopes.

 

[Islas82]

I got a leupold mk5 5-25 H59 and am pretty happy with it, no issues to report. Can’t really make a comparison since I have never used the other optics on your list.

 

[CSTactical]

Ok last newbie question for now I promise. I’m considering a Leupold MK5 5-25 or 7-35, but I’m a bit hesitant to buy a Leupold, because of past issues I’ve read about here on the Hide. The other scopes in the running are the NF ATACR 7-35, or S&B PMII (probably 5-25 or 3-20 short). I can get a Leupold for pretty cheap due to Mil pricing, but I’d rather spend the extra $$ on a NF or S&B if that means getting a more durable/quality scope. Any advise?

This will be mounted on a 20” 308 gas gun, and I’d like to shoot out to 1000 meters eventually.

Feel free to give us a call at 916-670-1103, we'd be happy to go over some great options for you

 

[Hammer_Man]

If you got the cash take a look at Zero Compromise scopes they are outstanding.The NF and S&B are also very good scopes.

I like the ZCO, but they don’t have a Mil/LEO purchase program that I’m aware of. The three brands I’m considering offer mil pricing, with the NF and S&B at the top of my list. Leupold’s mil/LEO pricing is pretty aggressive which is why I’m looking into the Mark 5. I’m just not sure about Leupold’s quality/durability in comparison to the other two. That’s why I’m tiring to the experts here on the Hide. I don’t want to spend extra $$ if I don’t have to, but I will if it means avoiding a sub par product.

 

[loveha]

Don't think you will be disappointed with the Mark 5. It has a pretty good following here on the hide, one of only a couple that ever get recommended from Leupold. The other could possibly be the VX-5HD/VX-6HD line when hunting and SFP is brought up.

If it has a reticle you like, then get it, if you don't like it, sell it here on the hide and recoup most of your money.

 

[lte82]

Nightforce or Schmidt for sure. I don’t think you can go wrong with either. Optically the Schmidt has an edge, turret wise the NF has an edge. I really like the H2cmr reticle, so Schmidt is what I run. If you like the MilC or Mil XT, get that. Neither will hold you back at all.

 

[Chief119]

I have owned all three, Nightforce

 

[Poorboyr]

The Schmidt will be the best optically. The other two are about the same. The Nightforce has a much tighter eye box than the other two. I prefer the Leupold turrets.

 

[Scwalker83]

I have 2x MK 5's 3.6-18/7-35, 1x MK8 3.5-25, 2x NF 7-35s, 2x S&Bs 5-25/5-45. I can shoot them all and be happy looking through them. Doesn't make a difference which I pick up. They all shoot the same.

 

[Hammer_Man]

Thanks for all the replies! I think I’m starting to lean toward the S&B due to its’ solid reputation, and glass quality. The NF ATACR 7-35 F1 is a VERY close second.

I found this scope on Optics Planet:

OPMOD 5-25 x 56 mm Rifle Scope 34 mm First Focal Plane (FFP)

Shop OPMOD 5-25 x 56 mm Rifle Scope 34 mm First Focal Plane (FFP) | 4 Star Rating on 3 Reviews for OPMOD 5-25 x 56 mm Rifle Scope 34 mm First...

www.opticsplanet.com

Anybody have any experience with that particular scope?

 

[CBDR]

S&B go with 5 x 20 Ultra Short. If your going in, go all in.

 

[charnicus]

Thanks for all the replies! I think I’m starting to lean toward the S&B due to its’ solid reputation, and glass quality. The NF ATACR 7-35 F1 is a VERY close second.

I found this scope on Optics Planet:

OPMOD 5-25 x 56 mm Rifle Scope 34 mm First Focal Plane (FFP)

Shop OPMOD 5-25 x 56 mm Rifle Scope 34 mm First Focal Plane (FFP) | 4 Star Rating on 3 Reviews for OPMOD 5-25 x 56 mm Rifle Scope 34 mm First...

www.opticsplanet.com

Anybody have any experience with that particular scope?

I’d be sure about the Tremor2 before putting interest in that particular model. An excellent condition PM2 can be had for quite a bit less. A 3-20US would be money well spent for your application.

 

[OneMoreNoMore]

Thanks for all the replies! I think I’m starting to lean toward the S&B due to its’ solid reputation, and glass quality. The NF ATACR 7-35 F1 is a VERY close second.

I found this scope on Optics Planet:

OPMOD 5-25 x 56 mm Rifle Scope 34 mm First Focal Plane (FFP)

Shop OPMOD 5-25 x 56 mm Rifle Scope 34 mm First Focal Plane (FFP) | 4 Star Rating on 3 Reviews for OPMOD 5-25 x 56 mm Rifle Scope 34 mm First...

www.opticsplanet.com

Anybody have any experience with that particular scope?

Me personally I would go with the S&B but I would save the money over the one you picked out and just get the black finish instead of the Pantone and I definitely wouldn’t get the tremor reticle, especially if your a newbie. That reticle doesn’t really offer anything for the gun your putting it on anyway.
The limited edition doesn’t do anything the other pmii do other than probably have the opmod emblem fall off in 6 months.
You can find pmii in the px fairly reasonably right now too.

 

[Claluja]

I'd get a S&B Ultra Short (e.g., 5-20) over a 5-25 for a gas gun, lighter and more maneuverable.

 

[Hammer_Man]

Once again thanks for the responses. I was intrigued by the OPMOD model, because it’s a contract overrun of some kind or another. It seems most 5-25 models are a few hundred dollars more expensive when configured similarly.

As far as the T2 reticle is concerned, It looks a bit busy, but most user reviews of Horus reticles are positive. I figured I could grow into it if needed? If I had the choice I would spec a H2CMR, or MSR-2. My only concern about the H2CMR is how it looks at low magnification, the open dots and dashes seem to blend together.

I did look into the 5-20 ultra short models, but I was a bit confused by the turret options. Some of them came with single turn elevation turrets, which I’ve never seen before. Does that mean those models have less elevation adjustment?


The two 5-20 ultra shorts I was considering are these two:

Schmidt Bender 5-20x50 PM II Ultra Short LP LT MTC/CT DT H2CMR 1cm ccw RAL8000 Riflescope 673-945-932-F1-E8

Schmidt Bender PMII 5-20x50 LP LT MTC/CT DT H2CMR FFP 1cm CCW RAL8000 673-945-932-F1-E8 | Only at EuroOptic.com!

www.eurooptic.com

Schmidt Bender PM II 5-20x50 Ultra Short DT II+ MTC LT / ST II ZC LT MSR2 .1 mrad Riflescope 673-911-862-M2-I5

FREE SHIPPING on Schmidt Bender PM II 5-20x50 Ultra Short DT II+ MSR2 .1 mrad Riflescope 673-911-862-M2-I5

www.eurooptic.com

Here is the 3-20 ultra short I looked at:

Schmidt Bender PM II 3-20x50 Ultra Short DT II+ MTC LT / ST II ZC LT MSR2 .1 mrad Riflescope 667-911-822-M2-I5

FREE SHIPPING on Schmidt Bender PM II 3-20x50 Ultra Short DT II+ MSR2 .1 mrad Riflescope 667-911-822-M2-I5

www.eurooptic.com

By the way I’m interested in RAL-8000, or Pantone models because the rifle I built is Cerakoted FDE. I think it would look cool to have a matching scope, but I know it’s not needed.

 

[WirgmanUSMC]

I have that same limited edition S&B scope and I love it. I love the Tremor2 reticle, it suits me great for my shooting style, which is lots of rapid engagements and holdovers. I enjoy the turret style, though some don’t. PMIIs come with a handful of different turret choices, and these are my personal favorite. Scope is super durable, I am anything but gentle with my rifles, and this scope has taken a beating over the past three years that I’ve owned it, and it hasn’t failed me once.

 

[Baer45]

If you got the cash take a look at Zero Compromise scopes they are outstanding.The NF and S&B are also very good scopes.

if you have the money for ZC might as well buy the Tangent Theta...

 

[Hammer_Man]

I have that same limited edition S&B scope and I love it. I love the Tremor2 reticle, it suits me great for my shooting style, which is lots of rapid engagements and holdovers. I enjoy the turret style, though some don’t. PMIIs come with a handful of different turret choices, and these are my personal favorite. Scope is super durable, I am anything but gentle with my rifles, and this scope has taken a beating over the past three years that I’ve owned it, and it hasn’t failed me once.

Did you remove the plaque? I hear some of them retained their QR code, and NSN underneath it.

I figured the T2 would be more applicable to a semi auto, due to the ability to engage targets more rapidly if needed.

 

[charnicus]

Did you remove the plaque? I hear some of them retained their QR code, and NSN underneath it.

I figured the T2 would be more applicable to a semi auto, due to the ability to engage targets more rapidly if needed.

You may find more utility with T3 vs T2. MSR2 is a superb reticle.

 

[M8541Reaper]

NF also has a military discount program so I’d suggest you hit them up and see their pricing. The Mil-XT is tits and the ATACR line is great. I use my 4-16 F1 on my gas guns and my 5-25 on bolt systems. For a dedicate gas gun optic, I’d recommend looking at the Mil-C 4-16 F1 ATACR. If you want a great grid-style, the Mil-XT would be (is) my choice.

The other plus about NF is that their CS team is awesome with fast turn around times if you need something.

You can’t go wrong with any of them but NF gets my money.

 

[Hammer_Man]

NF also has a military discount program so I’d suggest you hit them up and see their pricing. The Mil-XT is tits and the ATACR line is great. I use my 4-16 F1 on my gas guns and my 5-25 on bolt systems. For a dedicate gas gun optic, I’d recommend looking at the Mil-C 4-16 F1 ATACR. If you want a great grid-style, the Mil-XT would be (is) my choice.

The other plus about NF is that their CS team is awesome with fast turn around times if you need something.

You can’t go wrong with any of them but NF gets my money.

I ordered an ATACR 7-35 F1 through their Mil/LE program already, but it won’t be shipped out for about a month, so I have time to weigh other options. When I ordered it, the 7-35 was recommended over the 5-25, so that’s what I went with. I also figure having the additional magnification over the 4-16 and 5-25 models couldn’t hurt.

What distances do you shoot out to with your gas gun? There are spots out in the desert where I can stretch past 1000 if I want to, so I’m concerned a 4-16 wouldn’t have enough magnification.

 

[army_eod]

Ok last newbie question for now I promise. I’m considering a Leupold MK5 5-25 or 7-35, but I’m a bit hesitant to buy a Leupold, because of past issues I’ve read about here on the Hide. The other scopes in the running are the NF ATACR 7-35, or S&B PMII (probably 5-25 or 3-20 short). I can get a Leupold for pretty cheap due to Mil pricing, but I’d rather spend the extra $$ on a NF or S&B if that means getting a more durable/quality scope. Any advise?

This will be mounted on a 20” 308 gas gun, and I’d like to shoot out to 1000 meters eventually.

You know NF also has .mil pricing.

 

[M8541Reaper]

I ordered an ATACR 7-35 F1 through their Mil/LE program already, but it won’t be shipped out for about a month, so I have time to weigh other options. When I ordered it, the 7-35 was recommended over the 5-25, so that’s what I went with. I also figure having the additional magnification over the 4-16 and 5-25 models couldn’t hurt.

What distances do you shoot out to with your gas gun? There are spots out in the desert where I can stretch past 1000 if I want to, so I’m concerned a 4-16 wouldn’t have enough magnification.

Farthest I’ve taken my 556 gas gun has been 1000yds and my 308 gas out to 1200m. Both of those trips were shit shows but not because of the optic That said, my usual distances for my gas guns last year was 600-800yds...and remember, increased magnification doesn’t
equate to increased capability range.

I’ve run a fixed 10x at 800yds (with a max of 1200yds) on a bolt gun (M24) and have run 12x at 1000yds (M40A3) for quals and training. Is it ideal for target ID? Fuck no. But honestly man, even with my 5-25 ATACR F1 on my SA bolt gun, I rarely put it over 15x. That’s the reason I went 5-25 over the 7-35. I keep my 4-16x on the gas gun because it is smaller, lighter, and a gas gun doesn’t need anything more (in my opinion). If you’re always going from home-car-range bench-car-home, then weight and size doesn’t matter.

I’ll end up buying another ATACR F1 for the wife’s bolt gun once I pass her NXS F1 onto our son for his rifle. My (her) 3-15 NXS F1 used to live at the 1000yd line down in FL (#BackInTheDay) without an issue. It’s a solid optic choice.

Regardless man, you won’t go wrong with whatever you choose and the month goes by quick. I snagged my 5-25 on their Mil program and had a month wait as well.

 

[Hammer_Man]

Farthest I’ve taken my 556 gas gun has been 1000yds and my 308 gas out to 1200m. Both of those trips were shit shows but not because of the optic That said, my usual distances for my gas guns last year was 600-800yds...and remember, increased magnification doesn’t
equate to increased capability range.

I’ve run a fixed 10x at 800yds (with a max of 1200yds) on a bolt gun (M24) and have run 12x at 1000yds (M40A3) for quals and training. Is it ideal for target ID? Fuck no. But honestly man, even with my 5-25 ATACR F1 on my SA bolt gun, I rarely put it over 15x. That’s the reason I went 5-25 over the 7-35. I keep my 4-16x on the gas gun because it is smaller, lighter, and a gas gun doesn’t need anything more (in my opinion). If you’re always going from home-car-range bench-car-home, then weight and size doesn’t matter.

I’ll end up buying another ATACR F1 for the wife’s bolt gun once I pass her NXS F1 onto our son for his rifle. My (her) 3-15 NXS F1 used to live at the 1000yd line down in FL (#BackInTheDay) without an issue. It’s a solid optic choice.

Regardless man, you won’t go wrong with whatever you choose and the month goes by quick. I snagged my 5-25 on their Mil program and had a month wait as well.

I hear you on the magnification not equaling increased performance thing. I’ll probably suck for the first little bit, no matter what magnification my scope has. Which is why I decided to use 308 as a cartridge, due to availability and cost. I thought the extra magnification could aid in target ID, which at my age I can use all the help I can get .

 

[WirgmanUSMC]

Did you remove the plaque? I hear some of them retained their QR code, and NSN underneath it.

I figured the T2 would be more applicable to a semi auto, due to the ability to engage targets more rapidly if needed.

I did remove the plaque. My QR code is blacked out, and looks nice and clean.

 

[Hammer_Man]

I did remove the plaque. My QR code is blacked out, and looks nice and clean.

That’s pretty cool. It’s a very tempting scope, if it was maybe three hundred less, I would have bought it already.

 

[texag0842]

Nightforce and Schmidt both have decent military discounts so hard to go wrong with them

 

[Rhed]

Not a 7-35 NF or S&B. But I do run a NF atacr 4-16 f1 for my 556 and Tangent Theta 3-15p for my 762. Which both been great for me.

 

[Hammer_Man]

Sorry to be Mr. 20 questions, but how would a Steiner M5xi 5-25 compare to the NF? Steiner also has pretty decent mil pricing.

 

[army_eod]

By the way. Of top tier manufacturers, who has the best customer service?

 

[Hammer_Man]

By the way. Of top tier manufacturers, who has the best customer service?

That’s actually a good question. It’s best not to need it, but everybody produces a lemon every now and then.

 

[Mortalpawn]

Get the Nightforce 7-35 ATACR F1 with the Mil-C reticle. It is amazing for long range shooting.

 

[TimK]

I have both. Just received the 7-35 and have had the PMII for several years. My new NF has the Mil-XT reticle, and I find I like it very much. I can't find much to complain about with either one, but I have a preference for the turrets on the NF. I'm an old fart, and I find the turrets on the NF easier to see. The clicks are also more distinct meaning I find it easier to to get 3 clicks by feel vs the Schmidt. I was torn on this last purchase and sorely tempted to just get another Schmidt. In the end, I went with the NF to get the extra magnification. Not much use in the field, but nice to have when doing load development.

This might not matter to you, but the NF will focus down to literal across the room distances. Pretty handy if you do dryfire indoors.

 

[GUNNER10]

For me. MIL pricing... its a no Brainer. Leupold.with that being said.

NF has a better assortment
Of recticles and the sb will have better glass

There is a point of diminishing returns on high end glass, have a solid reputation.

 

[adubeau]

Valdada.... bestested damest scopes on dee market (Stirs pot and runs away) ...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Sorry to be Mr. 20 questions, but how would a Steiner M5xi 5-25 compare to the NF? Steiner also has pretty decent mil pricing.

Steiner is junk.

 

[tacops1]

NF ATACR for sure on their Mil/LEO program if you apply all the way I own the 7-35 and 4-16 and the new NX8 4-32 is also not a bad option

But when in doubt screw em all and buy Tangent Theta

 

[Hammer_Man]

NF ATACR for sure on their Mil/LEO program if you apply all the way I own the 7-35 and 4-16 and the new NX8 4-32 is also not a bad option

But when in doubt screw em all and buy Tangent Theta

I wish I could buy a Tangent Theta. Dvor has the 5-25 3XR marked down to $3,975 right now. That’s what I see them go for used. But alas, that’s still too rich for my blood.

 

[Hammer_Man]

This might not matter to you, but the NF will focus down to literal across the room distances. Pretty handy if you do dryfire indoors.

The focus range is what sold me on the 7-35 vs. the 5-25, but with a 308 I don’t think I’ll need to focus on targets that close. I might just change my order to the 5-25 to save a few hundred bucks.

 

[tacops1]

I wish I could buy a Tangent Theta. Dvor has the 5-25 3XR marked down to $3,975 right now. That’s what I see them go for used. But alas, that’s still too rich for my blood.

$3975 is a good price but I get it that’s some serious coin

I think you’ll love the ATACR personally or the NX8 4-32 with that new reticle

 

[TimK]

Spend the extra for the 7-35. I also have the NF ATACR 5-25, and the glass on the 7-35 is better.

 

[Escanor]

Are you able to look through these scopes at a LGS?

 

[Hammer_Man]

Are you able to look through these scopes at a LGS?

I’ve looked through the NF 5-25 & 7-35, the Leupold MK5 3-18 & 5-25, and a S&B PMII 5-25 at my local Cabela’s. Obviously I didn’t take the scopes outside, but from my brief time in the store I thought the NF 5-25 and S&B 5-25 were pretty close. The MK5 seemed to have a brighter picture, but the image wasn’t as detailed if that makes sense.

Both NF scopes seemed well made, my only complaints being weight, and a slight tunneling effect at max magnification. The S&B was also heavy, exhibited the same tunneling as the NF, and I didn’t like the P4FL reticle. The Leupold 3-18 had some noticeable CA, and the eye box was the least forgiving of the group. The Leupold 5-25 didn’t have the CA the 3-18 model had, but less clarity than the NF or S&B. In reality I think it’s splitting hairs between all of the 5-25 models, with the MK5 3-18 left in the junk pile. At this point I think it comes down to available reticles, and price.

So I think I’ll stick to the NF ATACR 5-25 or ATACR 7-35, with the T3 or Mil-XT reticle. The only thing that keeps me considering the Leupold is price. (Their mil pricing is VERY aggressive.) I’d like to look through an ATACR 4-16 though, as their website states it’s optimized for precision semi auto guns. It weighs considerably less, and costs about $900 less as well.

 

[Escanor]

I’ve looked through the NF 5-25 & 7-35, the Leupold MK5 3-18 & 5-25, and a S&B PMII 5-25 at my local Cabela’s. Obviously I didn’t take the scopes outside, but from my brief time in the store I thought the NF 5-25 and S&B 5-25 were pretty close. The MK5 seemed to have a brighter picture, but the image wasn’t as detailed if that makes sense.

Both NF scopes seemed well made, my only complaints being weight, and a slight tunneling effect at max magnification. The S&B was also heavy, exhibited the same tunneling as the NF, and I didn’t like the P4FL reticle. The Leupold 3-18 had some noticeable CA, and the eye box was the least forgiving of the group. The Leupold 5-25 didn’t have the CA the 3-18 model had, but less clarity than the NF or S&B. In reality I think it’s splitting hairs between all of the 5-25 models, with the MK5 3-18 left in the junk pile. At this point I think it comes down to available reticles, and price.

Sounds like you are leaning more towards NF... if the reticle is a no go for you when it comes to any scope, then I’d rule that one out

 

[Hammer_Man]

Sounds like you are leaning more towards NF... if the reticle is a no go for you when it comes to any scope, then I’d rule that one out

The Leupold’s biggest draw back is the limited choice of reticles. You only get a TMR or T3 if you want illumination. Truthfully I can say the same thing about the S&B. Their reticles are also a bit lackluster if I’m being honest. So yeah, I think I’ll stick to the NF ATACR. I’m starting to think I should change my order to the ATACR 4-16x50 with Mil-XT, and use the money I saved over the 7-35 to buy an ACOG for my M4A1.

 

[GUNNER10]

I’ve looked through the NF 5-25 & 7-35, the Leupold MK5 3-18 & 5-25, and a S&B PMII 5-25 at my local Cabela’s. Obviously I didn’t take the scopes outside, but from my brief time in the store I thought the NF 5-25 and S&B 5-25 were pretty close. The MK5 seemed to have a brighter picture, but the image wasn’t as detailed if that makes sense.

Both NF scopes seemed well made, my only complaints being weight, and a slight tunneling effect at max magnification. The S&B was also heavy, exhibited the same tunneling as the NF, and I didn’t like the P4FL reticle. The Leupold 3-18 had some noticeable CA, and the eye box was the least forgiving of the group. The Leupold 5-25 didn’t have the CA the 3-18 model had, but less clarity than the NF or S&B. In reality I think it’s splitting hairs between all of the 5-25 models, with the MK5 3-18 left in the junk pile. At this point I think it comes down to available reticles, and price.

So I think I’ll stick to the NF ATACR 5-25 or ATACR 7-35, with the T3 or Mil-XT reticle. The only thing that keeps me considering the Leupold is price. (Their mil pricing is VERY aggressive.) I’d like to look through an ATACR 4-16 though, as their website states it’s optimized for precision semi auto guns. It weighs considerably less, and costs about $900 less as well.

I have a pretty similar experience in comparing the nf and leupolds. While I think that the NF is a better scope. Its close, and to me, the nf is not almost a grand better than the mk5. Especially if you need 3 or 4 optics.

Love NF, shot the NSX for years. Just feel they are a little over priced for what they are, even with MIL discount.

When you could find a better optic for an extra couple hundred bucks, NF now, I am not so sure.

Honestly, I really don't think that any of the mil S&B's that I messed around with where game changers or worth the premium. Better yes, but not something that would make or break a shot in 99 percent of scenarios.

I am under no misconception that the mk5 is the best optic out there, its just a solid optic and considering its price point just works.

 

[GUNNER10]

The Leupold’s biggest draw back is the limited choice of reticles. You only get a TMR or T3 if you want illumination. Truthfully I can say the same thing about the S&B. Their reticles are also a bit lackluster if I’m being honest. So yeah, I think I’ll stick to the NF ATACR. I’m starting to think I should change my order to the ATACR 4-16x50 with Mil-XT, and use the money I saved over the 7-35 to buy an ACOG for my M4A1.

Very true, but if one is not going to need illumination. The TMR in the 1200 dollar price range is a ridiculous amount of scope for the money.

 

[jsel10]

Ive got 2 full seasons on my leupold mark 5 without a single issue. It is a quality optic. that being said, Nightforce and S&B should be the next tier up. Buy once cry once if youve got the resources.

 

[CaptArab]

4-16 atacr is the ultimate gas gun scope.
I'd buy one off the classifieds.

You won't lose a dime if you don't like it, plus it's arguably the most versatile scope NF makes, so you'll always find a home for it somewhere.

I personally hate really big scopes on gassers- it does strange things with the balance IMO.

16x is plenty for your purposes.