Night Vision NF Panobridge (14s) vs. RNVGs

[RC556]

I searched around but couldn't find anyone with deep NV knowledge or maybe experience in these 2 so here I am. I am having my almost monthly crisis of thinking I NEED NVGs. I can easily say it will sit in the safe 90% of its time, the occasional hunt with some friends, I'll pull out whatever unit(s) when friends come over to mess around in the yard. Might look at some stars an drive around. I will shoot with them at some point but anyways. I got ahead of myself and got a Peq and a Perst a while ago while building ARs while I was bored at home on quarantine so now I am liquidating some of the items because they're unnecessary. Anways, I never pulled the trigger on NVGs but of course Instagram shows me Noise Fighter's new Pano bridge for 14s, I'm sure most have seen it, if not then it's quite worth a search. But I am currentl debating running this setup mainly to have twice the fun with friends who dont have NV given I have 2 lasers already. Or, I would go into a somewhat equal costing RNVG setup. Photonis 4G is what I have found to be similar. Already have a bump with wilcox ready to roll with whatever I were to choose. So what does the hide think?

Best

 

[Gasgun]

I am a total noob when it comes to NV, so take this post in that context.

I have a pair of PVS14’s on a Wilcox bridge mount. I started with one PVS-14 and a PEQ-15.

This was my initiation into NV and I wasn’t sure how much use it was going to get. After having owned my original setup for a year, I decided that duals would be worth it. The simplest way to get there was just buying another PVS-14.

Overall I’m happy with them. The downside, of course, is that they are bulkier and heavier than a real set of duals. The added size is more of an issue than the weight.

If I were in your position I would go with the RNVG.

If one of my friends wants to shoot with NV, they can buy their own shit.

 

[NHPiper]

There are a lot of really good discussion points here about the pano bridge. It looks pretty badass.

Night Vision - Panobridge

Just saw this on Soldier Systems. https://soldiersystems.net/2021/05/14/noisefighters-and-development-partner-nightline-inc-introduce-panobridge/

www.snipershide.com

I have run dual 14s in a KVC bridge and also run a Trijicon Patrol M300W on my left eye and a PVS14 on my right. I primarily run a PVS1531 which weighs about the same as a single PVS14. The majority of our time is spent off roading or hiking with NODS, with shooting a close second behind that. Stay away from Photonis or even Elbit. Some say they have better performance around lights. Guess what, that isn't when NODS are really used. If you are under tree cover, even with a full moon, even an unfilmed white tube will struggle to provide contract and depth perception to whatever terrain you are going over. You will appreciate the advantages an L3 tube provides. I would take a single PVS14 with 18UA+ L3 tube over a goggle setup with thin-filmed white Photonis or Elbit tubes any day of the week.

Dual 14s Pros:
-Can buy into the system piecemeal, meaning you don't have to chip out $7-9K for a set of RNVGs or similar with L3 tubes (knock $2-3K off that if you go with thin-filmed green tubes)
-Offers the opportunity to share a PVS 14. However, you will now also need a second helmet, mount, and etc. for someone else to join you. So keep that cost in mind.
-If you are like me, having that PVS14 really just becomes a cool way to take photos, so the spare unit honestly gets used for that as much as it gets worn by my girlfriend when we are out shooting or driving.
-PVS14s have great battery life (40+ hours) and run easily off of lithium or alkaline AA batteries.

Dual 14s Cons:
-You aren't really saving money overall. The street price for a good PVS14 with an L3 tube (which is honestly worth the money) is $4K+, so two of those plus a bridge now puts you close to $10K. Might as well snag a PVS1531, DTNVG, etc. RNVGs are a good option too since you can get a good set with white tubes for around $8K.
-Heavy. You will want at least a 1lbs counterweight. It is manageable, but not pleasant after several hours.
-You will have to manage two manual gains unless you go with auto gain tubes (I did on my first 14 with no issues). Just one more thing to dick around with.
-Find a bridge, at least like a KVC, is tough right now. However, the pano looks like a good option and I am tempted to pick one up and try one with my PVS14 and a friends.
-Provides more depth perception for activities like driving. However, I have had no issues driving at 30-40mph with a 4x4 or at street speeds with a single PVS14. To take full advantage of a single tube, you really need to commit to an unfilmed L3 tube.

It really comes down to your finances. If you can only chip out $5K now, then get a helmet, mount, PVS14 and Norotos Dual Dovetail adapter. Then start saving up for the next PVS14 and a pano bridge (although at that point I'd probably save and flip the PVS14 to put towards a bino). But if you have $8-11K to plunk down, get the helmet setup and search for a decent set of RNVGs or similar.

There is a guy in the night vision section that has a really nice set of green PVS15s that a friend of mine sold him with thin-filmed tubes. They held up pretty close to unfilmed white and he wanted a very reasonable price. Gives you some articulation with the benefit of dual tubes for less than an RNVG and a few thousand more than a single PVS14. Food for thought.

 

[Noisefighters]

I searched around but couldn't find anyone with deep NV knowledge or maybe experience in these 2 so here I am. I am having my almost monthly crisis of thinking I NEED NVGs. I can easily say it will sit in the safe 90% of its time, the occasional hunt with some friends, I'll pull out whatever unit(s) when friends come over to mess around in the yard. Might look at some stars an drive around. I will shoot with them at some point but anyways. I got ahead of myself and got a Peq and a Perst a while ago while building ARs while I was bored at home on quarantine so now I am liquidating some of the items because they're unnecessary. Anways, I never pulled the trigger on NVGs but of course Instagram shows me Noise Fighter's new Pano bridge for 14s, I'm sure most have seen it, if not then it's quite worth a search. But I am currentl debating running this setup mainly to have twice the fun with friends who dont have NV given I have 2 lasers already. Or, I would go into a somewhat equal costing RNVG setup. Photonis 4G is what I have found to be similar. Already have a bump with wilcox ready to roll with whatever I were to choose. So what does the hide think?

Best

Hey @RC556, I'm the guy behind Panobridge, I just became a commercial supporter on here, and thought I'd answer your question directly with a few questions:

Do you care about being able to see more than 40 degrees? This 25 second video makes it clear what the difference will be between the RNVG and the Panobridge:



Also, do you care about being able to swing one tube upwards, out of the line of sight, for certain situations? This articulation, which isn't present on RNVG, also allows the Panobridge'd 14s to stow more conveniently on top of the helmet.

I am a total noob when it comes to NV, so take this post in that context.

I have a pair of PVS14’s on a Wilcox bridge mount. I started with one PVS-14 and a PEQ-15.

This was my initiation into NV and I wasn’t sure how much use it was going to get. After having owned my original setup for a year, I decided that duals would be worth it. The simplest way to get there was just buying another PVS-14.

Overall I’m happy with them. The downside, of course, is that they are bulkier and heavier than a real set of duals. The added size is more of an issue than the weight.

If I were in your position I would go with the RNVG.

If one of my friends wants to shoot with NV, they can buy their own shit.

@Gasgun, I appreciate your post and think everything you said would apply to the world of bridged 14s if you were talking about any other bridge available previously. However, my Panobridge is so light (1.5 oz total) and small that it should produce a goggle that is actually more compact than a RNVG and rivals it in weight (depending on monocular configuration, especially including battery housing and lens manufacturer).

There are a lot of really good discussion points here about the pano bridge. It looks pretty badass.

Night Vision - Panobridge

Just saw this on Soldier Systems. https://soldiersystems.net/2021/05/14/noisefighters-and-development-partner-nightline-inc-introduce-panobridge/

www.snipershide.com

I have run dual 14s in a KVC bridge and also run a Trijicon Patrol M300W on my left eye and a PVS14 on my right. I primarily run a PVS1531 which weighs about the same as a single PVS14. The majority of our time is spent off roading or hiking with NODS, with shooting a close second behind that. Stay away from Photonis or even Elbit. Some say they have better performance around lights. Guess what, that isn't when NODS are really used. If you are under tree cover, even with a full moon, even an unfilmed white tube will struggle to provide contract and depth perception to whatever terrain you are going over. You will appreciate the advantages an L3 tube provides. I would take a single PVS14 with 18UA+ L3 tube over a goggle setup with thin-filmed white Photonis or Elbit tubes any day of the week.

Dual 14s Pros:
-Can buy into the system piecemeal, meaning you don't have to chip out $7-9K for a set of RNVGs or similar with L3 tubes (knock $2-3K off that if you go with thin-filmed green tubes)
-Offers the opportunity to share a PVS 14. However, you will now also need a second helmet, mount, and etc. for someone else to join you. So keep that cost in mind.
-If you are like me, having that PVS14 really just becomes a cool way to take photos, so the spare unit honestly gets used for that as much as it gets worn by my girlfriend when we are out shooting or driving.
-PVS14s have great battery life (40+ hours) and run easily off of lithium or alkaline AA batteries.

Dual 14s Cons:
-You aren't really saving money overall. The street price for a good PVS14 with an L3 tube (which is honestly worth the money) is $4K+, so two of those plus a bridge now puts you close to $10K. Might as well snag a PVS1531, DTNVG, etc. RNVGs are a good option too since you can get a good set with white tubes for around $8K.
-Heavy. You will want at least a 1lbs counterweight. It is manageable, but not pleasant after several hours.
-You will have to manage two manual gains unless you go with auto gain tubes (I did on my first 14 with no issues). Just one more thing to dick around with.
-Find a bridge, at least like a KVC, is tough right now. However, the pano looks like a good option and I am tempted to pick one up and try one with my PVS14 and a friends.
-Provides more depth perception for activities like driving. However, I have had no issues driving at 30-40mph with a 4x4 or at street speeds with a single PVS14. To take full advantage of a single tube, you really need to commit to an unfilmed L3 tube.

It really comes down to your finances. If you can only chip out $5K now, then get a helmet, mount, PVS14 and Norotos Dual Dovetail adapter. Then start saving up for the next PVS14 and a pano bridge (although at that point I'd probably save and flip the PVS14 to put towards a bino). But if you have $8-11K to plunk down, get the helmet setup and search for a decent set of RNVGs or similar.

There is a guy in the night vision section that has a really nice set of green PVS15s that a friend of mine sold him with thin-filmed tubes. They held up pretty close to unfilmed white and he wanted a very reasonable price. Gives you some articulation with the benefit of dual tubes for less than an RNVG and a few thousand more than a single PVS14. Food for thought.

@NHPiper, this is fine advice. Thanks for sharing. My only counterpoints to your Dual 14 Cons list is to mention:

• Weight will not be a factor if the end user can go for upgraded monoculars. My Panobridge development partner Nightline, Inc. is the manufacturer of a digital battery housing which drops 0.9 oz per PVS-14, allows for either CR-123A or AA battery use, gets rid of the most damage-prone item on the 14 (the rotary power switch), improves the water resistance, and extends the run time up to 70 hours. At $300 per digital housing, this is an inexpensive way to get a pair of Panobridge'd PVS-14s to 21.5 oz total without batteries (around 22.5 oz total with lithium CR-123As), which is below the weight of a PVS-15 (~23 oz total). If you can throw even more money at it, you can add the premium RPO objectives and eyepieces and take the Panobridge'd / Nightline'd / RPO'd goggle down to ~20 oz with batteries installed, which is shockingly in-between the weight of a DTNVS and a DTNVG (around 19 and 20 oz respectively).
• I personally value having manual gain to match the situation as necessary, plus redundant power supplies so that only one tube goes out instead of the entire goggle when a battery dies unexpectedly. I'm coming at this from a former infantryman's perspective and not SWAT / LEO / other. These features are definitely something to think about before making a purchasing decision.

You also mentioned the Norotos Dual Dovetail Adapter as great solution for single PVS-14 mounting, and I want to throw it out there that my new X14-Arm is a direct competitor, weighs about 2/3 less, looks cooler (I'm a little biased), and is cheaper.
---

If you want to wait, @RC556, Nocturn Industries and my company have partnered to create a dedicated bino housing with my Adjustable Field of View mechanism included that we're calling PANOBINO. It should weigh less than 20 oz with mil-spec PVS-14 lenses (and closer to one pound with RPO glass) and will feature vertically-articulating tubes with auto-off feature, autogain, etc. Unfortunately, I do not yet have a timeline for its release.

 

[RC556]

There are a lot of really good discussion points here about the pano bridge. It looks pretty badass.

Night Vision - Panobridge

Just saw this on Soldier Systems. https://soldiersystems.net/2021/05/14/noisefighters-and-development-partner-nightline-inc-introduce-panobridge/

www.snipershide.com

I have run dual 14s in a KVC bridge and also run a Trijicon Patrol M300W on my left eye and a PVS14 on my right. I primarily run a PVS1531 which weighs about the same as a single PVS14. The majority of our time is spent off roading or hiking with NODS, with shooting a close second behind that. Stay away from Photonis or even Elbit. Some say they have better performance around lights. Guess what, that isn't when NODS are really used. If you are under tree cover, even with a full moon, even an unfilmed white tube will struggle to provide contract and depth perception to whatever terrain you are going over. You will appreciate the advantages an L3 tube provides. I would take a single PVS14 with 18UA+ L3 tube over a goggle setup with thin-filmed white Photonis or Elbit tubes any day of the week.

Dual 14s Pros:
-Can buy into the system piecemeal, meaning you don't have to chip out $7-9K for a set of RNVGs or similar with L3 tubes (knock $2-3K off that if you go with thin-filmed green tubes)
-Offers the opportunity to share a PVS 14. However, you will now also need a second helmet, mount, and etc. for someone else to join you. So keep that cost in mind.
-If you are like me, having that PVS14 really just becomes a cool way to take photos, so the spare unit honestly gets used for that as much as it gets worn by my girlfriend when we are out shooting or driving.
-PVS14s have great battery life (40+ hours) and run easily off of lithium or alkaline AA batteries.

Dual 14s Cons:
-You aren't really saving money overall. The street price for a good PVS14 with an L3 tube (which is honestly worth the money) is $4K+, so two of those plus a bridge now puts you close to $10K. Might as well snag a PVS1531, DTNVG, etc. RNVGs are a good option too since you can get a good set with white tubes for around $8K.
-Heavy. You will want at least a 1lbs counterweight. It is manageable, but not pleasant after several hours.
-You will have to manage two manual gains unless you go with auto gain tubes (I did on my first 14 with no issues). Just one more thing to dick around with.
-Find a bridge, at least like a KVC, is tough right now. However, the pano looks like a good option and I am tempted to pick one up and try one with my PVS14 and a friends.

I am a total noob when it comes to NV, so take this post in that context.

I have a pair of PVS14’s on a Wilcox bridge mount. I started with one PVS-14 and a PEQ-15.

This was my initiation into NV and I wasn’t sure how much use it was going to get. After having owned my original setup for a year, I decided that duals would be worth it. The simplest way to get there was just buying another PVS-14.

Overall I’m happy with them. The downside, of course, is that they are bulkier and heavier than a real set of duals. The added size is more of an issue than the weight.

If I were in your position I would go with the RNVG.

If one of my friends wants to shoot with NV, they can buy their own shit.

Very helpful. I guess its almost impossible to find someone who has run both the pano and binos but I figured it was worth a shot. Back to photonis and what not. Again, total noob except that I know high FOM is great lol. On instagram when I see Photonis WP and its that super bright blue thats what attracts me. Some L3 WP tubes look grainy and faded almost into a green, but then again I guess that's just dependent on phone pictures and what not.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Very helpful. I guess its almost impossible to find someone who has run both the pano and binos but I figured it was worth a shot. Back to photonis and what not. Again, total noob except that I know high FOM is great lol. On instagram when I see Photonis WP and its that super bright blue thats what attracts me. Some L3 WP tubes look grainy and faded almost into a green, but then again I guess that's just dependent on phone pictures and what not.

My understanding is FOM isn't the greatest metric to rate a tube by. Its determined by resolution and snr. The problem is that resolution past 64 makes little to no difference to the human eye. Mine and my wife's tubes both have snr of 32. Her resolution is 64 and mine is 76 giving mine a much higher fom. In practice there's really no difference between the 2 and if anything hers is a little better in low light due to a lower ebi.

 

[Lowdown3]

My understanding is FOM isn't the greatest metric to rate a tube by. Its determined by resolution and snr. The problem is that resolution past 64 makes little to no difference to the human eye. Mine and my wife's tubes both have snr of 32. Her resolution is 64 and mine is 76 giving mine a much higher fom. In practice there's really no difference between the 2 and if anything hers is a little better in low light due to a lower ebi.

With all other metrics being decent then I would agree with that.

This is why some XLS tubes look good on paper but don't really seem "balanced"- for lack of a better word- when in actual use.

But I agree FOM is a quick and dirty "drive by" way of getting a feel of performance.

 

[jeffl838]

I like the pano bridge a lot.

If you value the pano-ability and can deal with the weight, then obviously the panobridge.

If you don't value the pano-ability but value articulation and can deal with the weight... panobridge.

If you don't value pano-ability or articulation, then RNVG wins out because it's lighter.

If you really really value lightweight (over articulation and pano-ability), then RNVG wins by a few ounces (unless you get lightweight 14's, then I think they end up about equal)

If you have to be very very frugal... panobridge. You can probably get 2 x omni 7/8 pvs14's for 2k each. I haven't seen omni 7/8 RNVG's for under 5k.

Manual gain? Panobridge.

I suspect the RNVG and panobridge setups have similar durability... The panobridge comes with a killer warranty promise from Neal and PVS14's are very durable, so I wouldn't use that as a factor. The panobridge is significantly lighter than any other bridge. I had a TNVC NPM and the panobridge is noticeably lighter.