Anyone set up a trust for their NFA purchase? I have Quicken Willmaker, but would like to find an attorney to go over my application. Anyone in the Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah AO's able to recommend and attorney or actually done one themselves? Thanks in advance.
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Re: NFA Trust?
I used Willmaker for my trust and have my second can approved using the trust as the transferee.
Willmaker makes it stupid easy. Most think they must have missed something. It's just that simple.
If you involve a lawyer, you're defeating the simplicity of Willmaker, unless you know a lawyer that will look over it for free.
FWIW, most I know in GA have used a trust. It works well here, as there is no need to file it with the state for it's purposes for NFA purchases. Check this in your own state.
Here it's just enter your trustee(s), your beneficiary(ies), your property, get it notarized, mail it in with the duplicate form 4, the citizenship form in duplicate, and $200, and sit and wait.
My first transfer took 21 days back in October. My latest took 27. both with holidays in the middle of the period
I used Willmaker for my trust and have my second can approved using the trust as the transferee.
Willmaker makes it stupid easy. Most think they must have missed something. It's just that simple.
If you involve a lawyer, you're defeating the simplicity of Willmaker, unless you know a lawyer that will look over it for free.
FWIW, most I know in GA have used a trust. It works well here, as there is no need to file it with the state for it's purposes for NFA purchases. Check this in your own state.
Here it's just enter your trustee(s), your beneficiary(ies), your property, get it notarized, mail it in with the duplicate form 4, the citizenship form in duplicate, and $200, and sit and wait.
My first transfer took 21 days back in October. My latest took 27. both with holidays in the middle of the period
Re: NFA Trust?
Setting up a Trust is easy, the software will walk you thru every step and all you need is notorization and registering with the county (if your state requires it). If you ever decide to get a suppressor, you can bypass leo signature, fingerprint cards, photo id, etc the hassles of getting one in your name as an individual. Im currently awaiting approval of my first suppressor using a Trust and have added the majority of my collection into the trust incase something happens to me, i can give what i want to who i want.
Setting up a Trust is easy, the software will walk you thru every step and all you need is notorization and registering with the county (if your state requires it). If you ever decide to get a suppressor, you can bypass leo signature, fingerprint cards, photo id, etc the hassles of getting one in your name as an individual. Im currently awaiting approval of my first suppressor using a Trust and have added the majority of my collection into the trust incase something happens to me, i can give what i want to who i want.
Re: NFA Trust?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kootenai</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where do you get the Form 4? Citizenship form #1 is name of TRUST? #2 is my name, correct? </div></div>
I got the forms from my dealer but i think you can order them online as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kootenai</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where do you get the Form 4? Citizenship form #1 is name of TRUST? #2 is my name, correct? </div></div>
I got the forms from my dealer but i think you can order them online as well.
Re: NFA Trust?
AN ARTICLE WORTH READING: with no intent to plaguarize...
Special Guest Writer Bob J. Howell
Use of the Revocable Trust to Purchase NFA Items
It is my distinct pleasure to introduce to you a special guest contributor this month. The following article was authored by Mr. Bob J. Howell. Mr. Howell is a practicing attorney in Florida experienced in Trust and Estates Law He brings his wealth of knowledge and experience in the area to this piece, which examines the use of the revocable trust as a means of purchasing NFA items. Please enjoy Mr. Howell's unique perspective as he explores an important area of Estates and Firearms Law.
"My CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) says he won't sign off on any Form 4s, now what do I do?" This is something that many in the NFA community have heard time and time again. Despite the best efforts of many to explain the true meaning of the signoff provision of the Form 4, there are still many CLEOs who do not understand the meaning of the signoff or do not want to understand for personal or political reasons. For many years, the standard reply to this question as been to advise the potential buyer to set up a corporation. While this method of purchasing NFA items has been in widespread use for many years, there is an alternative: the Revocable Trust.
A Revocable Trust is a legal entity established under state law, like a corporation, and as such, a Trust can hold title to real and personal property. Some are familiar with the use of a Revocable Trust for Estate Planning. However, many are unfamiliar with the use of a Revocable Trust to purchase and own NFA items. The NFA in 27 CFR §479.11 specifically defines a Person (i.e. someone who is authorized to purchase NFA items) to include Trusts as well as Corporations. Therefore, absent a state law in your particular jurisdiction prohibiting same, you may purchase and own NFA items through a Revocable Trust.
Aside from being merely an alternative method of purchasing an NFA item, the Revocable Trust provides many benefits over a Corporation or LLC. In states where a Trust is not required to be registered, a Trust will provide a more private method of ownership. In the author's home state of Florida, there is no requirement to register or record a Revocable Trust. Therefore, the existence and terms of the Trust are known only to those whom you choose to tell. This is generally not the case with a Corporation. In a casual conversation with someone at the range who is new to NFA and has questions about it, you might explain the legalities and process for purchase and ownership as well as how you purchased them through your corporation because the local CLEO refuses to sign. A quick search through the state's Division of Corporations website using your name or the name of the Corporation can yield a wealth of information. Through such sources, a stranger can find out information such as what corporations you are an officer of and the registered address of any such corporations. If you use your home address as the registered address of your corporation, the person performing the search now knows where you live and where you may store your NFA items.
Another area where a Trust may be more desirable is cost. With the cost of initial filing fees and annual corporate fees, your cost for the corporation may exceed the cost of setting up a trust either initially or over time. As an example, an individual in Florida wants to purchase a .22 suppressor from a dealer for $300. As his CLEO will not sign the Form 4, he sets up a Corporation to purchase the suppressor. Filing fees to set up the corporation (absent any cost of legal assistance or cost of a corporate book) were $70. The annual corporate filing fee is $150 and is paid every year the corporation is active. Five years later he still has the suppressor, but with annual fees he has paid $820 in initial filing and annual fees and will continue to pay $150 per year for as long as he wants to keep the suppressor. This is a lot of money for a $300 suppressor. Filing fees and annual fees for Corporations or LLCs may be different in your state, but the point is that once the Trust is established there are generally no further fees to maintain it.
In a typical Revocable Trust where you act as your own Trustee, there is no separate Federal tax return to be filed and any profit or loss incurred by the trust is passed through on your individual tax return. With a Corporation or LLC, you may be required to file state or federal tax returns, depending on your jurisdiction and the activities of the corporation. This too can be an added expense that using a Trust may avoid.
A Trust also has the benefit of being able to manage or distribute the Trust assets upon your death or incapacity. If you own NFA items in a Corporation and die, then your interest in that Corporation, and accordingly the assets held by the Corporation, will likely be subject to Probate. For those not familiar with Probate, it is the court authorized procedure where the assets of a deceased person are collected; their debts are paid, and the remaining assets are distributed to their beneficiaries pursuant to the terms of their will or in absence thereof, pursuant to the terms of state law. The duration and cost of this process may vary from state to state, but it is generally not cheap. By placing NFA items into a Trust, you can direct where those items are to go upon your death without fear of the high cost of probate. Revocable Trusts are a common tool used by estate planning attorneys across the country to help their clients avoid probate. The author has prepared many trusts for individuals, as part of their general estate plan, which they have used for the dual purpose of avoiding probate on their estate as a whole as well as to purchase NFA items.
Like a Corporation, there are no fingerprints or photos submitted with a transfer to a Revocable Trust. However, like a corporation, you must submit proof of the existence of the entity (be it a trust or corporation) with your Form 4. While many practitioners will advise the purchaser to simply submit a Certificate of Trust (typically a short one page notarized document confirming the existence of the trust and identifying the Trustee) as proof, the author recommends that you submit a full copy of the trust itself to avoid any questions from ATF as to the legitimacy and existence of the Trust. While some are uneasy about submitting a copy of their Trust with the Form 4, the author has had no issues with this practice. Additionally, as the Form 4 is essentially a tax document, the Form 4 and the documents accompanying it would be deemed private tax information between you and the ATE The last question the author is often presented with when discussing a Revocable Trust for NFA ownership is the subject of a professionally prepared Trust versus a self-prepared document. Depending upon the complexity of the Trust provisions regarding the management and distributions of the NFA items and whether the Trust is also being used for general estate planning purposes, in many areas the cost can run as little as a few hundred dollars. It has been the author's experience that many of the forms and computer programs available for drafting trusts and other legal documents provide just enough information to be dangerous. Like a wise man has said, you get what you pay for. While doing it yourself may save a few bucks, doing it wrong can cost you quite a bit more in legal fees or even your freedom. The author generally provides a prospective client with two pieces of free advice when asked about do-it-yourself documents. One is that you do not have to use the author, but do yourself a favor and use an attorney with experience in Trust preparation. The other is that if the cost of correctly preparing the documentation scares you, perhaps NFA is not the hobby for you.
Use of the Revocable Trust of NFA purchases is not new but rather is something that many were, until recently, unaware of. The Author has seen an increasing number of questions about its use on various websites along with an increasing number of well intentioned but misleading or incorrect answers. This article is intended to address many of those questions and provide an overview of the general traits and benefits of using a Revocable Trust for NFA ownership. Before proceeding however, you should always seek competent legal advice in your jurisdiction to determine if it is right for you.
Mark Barnes is an attorney with over 20 years experience. He began his career in public policy serving in both the legislative and executive branches of federal government. His firm, Mark Barnes and Associates, is located in Washington, D. C. and has been specializing in all aspects of federal firearms law since 1993. He can be contacted at MarkB17@aol. com. l. 10 No. 6• March 2007
AN ARTICLE WORTH READING: with no intent to plaguarize...
Special Guest Writer Bob J. Howell
Use of the Revocable Trust to Purchase NFA Items
It is my distinct pleasure to introduce to you a special guest contributor this month. The following article was authored by Mr. Bob J. Howell. Mr. Howell is a practicing attorney in Florida experienced in Trust and Estates Law He brings his wealth of knowledge and experience in the area to this piece, which examines the use of the revocable trust as a means of purchasing NFA items. Please enjoy Mr. Howell's unique perspective as he explores an important area of Estates and Firearms Law.
"My CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) says he won't sign off on any Form 4s, now what do I do?" This is something that many in the NFA community have heard time and time again. Despite the best efforts of many to explain the true meaning of the signoff provision of the Form 4, there are still many CLEOs who do not understand the meaning of the signoff or do not want to understand for personal or political reasons. For many years, the standard reply to this question as been to advise the potential buyer to set up a corporation. While this method of purchasing NFA items has been in widespread use for many years, there is an alternative: the Revocable Trust.
A Revocable Trust is a legal entity established under state law, like a corporation, and as such, a Trust can hold title to real and personal property. Some are familiar with the use of a Revocable Trust for Estate Planning. However, many are unfamiliar with the use of a Revocable Trust to purchase and own NFA items. The NFA in 27 CFR §479.11 specifically defines a Person (i.e. someone who is authorized to purchase NFA items) to include Trusts as well as Corporations. Therefore, absent a state law in your particular jurisdiction prohibiting same, you may purchase and own NFA items through a Revocable Trust.
Aside from being merely an alternative method of purchasing an NFA item, the Revocable Trust provides many benefits over a Corporation or LLC. In states where a Trust is not required to be registered, a Trust will provide a more private method of ownership. In the author's home state of Florida, there is no requirement to register or record a Revocable Trust. Therefore, the existence and terms of the Trust are known only to those whom you choose to tell. This is generally not the case with a Corporation. In a casual conversation with someone at the range who is new to NFA and has questions about it, you might explain the legalities and process for purchase and ownership as well as how you purchased them through your corporation because the local CLEO refuses to sign. A quick search through the state's Division of Corporations website using your name or the name of the Corporation can yield a wealth of information. Through such sources, a stranger can find out information such as what corporations you are an officer of and the registered address of any such corporations. If you use your home address as the registered address of your corporation, the person performing the search now knows where you live and where you may store your NFA items.
Another area where a Trust may be more desirable is cost. With the cost of initial filing fees and annual corporate fees, your cost for the corporation may exceed the cost of setting up a trust either initially or over time. As an example, an individual in Florida wants to purchase a .22 suppressor from a dealer for $300. As his CLEO will not sign the Form 4, he sets up a Corporation to purchase the suppressor. Filing fees to set up the corporation (absent any cost of legal assistance or cost of a corporate book) were $70. The annual corporate filing fee is $150 and is paid every year the corporation is active. Five years later he still has the suppressor, but with annual fees he has paid $820 in initial filing and annual fees and will continue to pay $150 per year for as long as he wants to keep the suppressor. This is a lot of money for a $300 suppressor. Filing fees and annual fees for Corporations or LLCs may be different in your state, but the point is that once the Trust is established there are generally no further fees to maintain it.
In a typical Revocable Trust where you act as your own Trustee, there is no separate Federal tax return to be filed and any profit or loss incurred by the trust is passed through on your individual tax return. With a Corporation or LLC, you may be required to file state or federal tax returns, depending on your jurisdiction and the activities of the corporation. This too can be an added expense that using a Trust may avoid.
A Trust also has the benefit of being able to manage or distribute the Trust assets upon your death or incapacity. If you own NFA items in a Corporation and die, then your interest in that Corporation, and accordingly the assets held by the Corporation, will likely be subject to Probate. For those not familiar with Probate, it is the court authorized procedure where the assets of a deceased person are collected; their debts are paid, and the remaining assets are distributed to their beneficiaries pursuant to the terms of their will or in absence thereof, pursuant to the terms of state law. The duration and cost of this process may vary from state to state, but it is generally not cheap. By placing NFA items into a Trust, you can direct where those items are to go upon your death without fear of the high cost of probate. Revocable Trusts are a common tool used by estate planning attorneys across the country to help their clients avoid probate. The author has prepared many trusts for individuals, as part of their general estate plan, which they have used for the dual purpose of avoiding probate on their estate as a whole as well as to purchase NFA items.
Like a Corporation, there are no fingerprints or photos submitted with a transfer to a Revocable Trust. However, like a corporation, you must submit proof of the existence of the entity (be it a trust or corporation) with your Form 4. While many practitioners will advise the purchaser to simply submit a Certificate of Trust (typically a short one page notarized document confirming the existence of the trust and identifying the Trustee) as proof, the author recommends that you submit a full copy of the trust itself to avoid any questions from ATF as to the legitimacy and existence of the Trust. While some are uneasy about submitting a copy of their Trust with the Form 4, the author has had no issues with this practice. Additionally, as the Form 4 is essentially a tax document, the Form 4 and the documents accompanying it would be deemed private tax information between you and the ATE The last question the author is often presented with when discussing a Revocable Trust for NFA ownership is the subject of a professionally prepared Trust versus a self-prepared document. Depending upon the complexity of the Trust provisions regarding the management and distributions of the NFA items and whether the Trust is also being used for general estate planning purposes, in many areas the cost can run as little as a few hundred dollars. It has been the author's experience that many of the forms and computer programs available for drafting trusts and other legal documents provide just enough information to be dangerous. Like a wise man has said, you get what you pay for. While doing it yourself may save a few bucks, doing it wrong can cost you quite a bit more in legal fees or even your freedom. The author generally provides a prospective client with two pieces of free advice when asked about do-it-yourself documents. One is that you do not have to use the author, but do yourself a favor and use an attorney with experience in Trust preparation. The other is that if the cost of correctly preparing the documentation scares you, perhaps NFA is not the hobby for you.
Use of the Revocable Trust of NFA purchases is not new but rather is something that many were, until recently, unaware of. The Author has seen an increasing number of questions about its use on various websites along with an increasing number of well intentioned but misleading or incorrect answers. This article is intended to address many of those questions and provide an overview of the general traits and benefits of using a Revocable Trust for NFA ownership. Before proceeding however, you should always seek competent legal advice in your jurisdiction to determine if it is right for you.
Mark Barnes is an attorney with over 20 years experience. He began his career in public policy serving in both the legislative and executive branches of federal government. His firm, Mark Barnes and Associates, is located in Washington, D. C. and has been specializing in all aspects of federal firearms law since 1993. He can be contacted at MarkB17@aol. com. l. 10 No. 6• March 2007
Re: NFA Trust?
On the form four, the name:
YOUR NAME, Revocable Living Trust,
Next Line: your address, county, etc.
On the back:
YOUR NAME, Revocable Living Trust,
Forms come from the dealer unless you are buying from an individual.
On the form four, the name:
YOUR NAME, Revocable Living Trust,
Next Line: your address, county, etc.
On the back:
YOUR NAME, Revocable Living Trust,
Forms come from the dealer unless you are buying from an individual.
Re: NFA Trust?
Okay, so I just did the Quicken WM thing and have a question. For the property to be entered, I put in "all National Firearms Act items" as I do not have serial numbers at this point for a better description. Is this kosher, or should I put something else?
So now I have the 6 page "Decleration of Trust" that needs to be notorized, a one page "Scheadul A", a one page "Assignment of Property", a one page "Property you must transfer into a trustee's name" and four pages of "letter to Successor Trustee".
Sorry for being a rock, but how many copies of each of these do I need to take to my dealer and which ones need to be notorized?
Thanks a ton, I REALLY don't want to screw this up as it is a 5 hour drive to my dealer.
ETA-I have spent a few days now trying to go over all this stuff on different websites and for the life of me cannot find a "step by step for idiots way of forming a trust and getting a can". If one is out there, please let me knwo and I will stop wasting everyones time.
Okay, so I just did the Quicken WM thing and have a question. For the property to be entered, I put in "all National Firearms Act items" as I do not have serial numbers at this point for a better description. Is this kosher, or should I put something else?
So now I have the 6 page "Decleration of Trust" that needs to be notorized, a one page "Scheadul A", a one page "Assignment of Property", a one page "Property you must transfer into a trustee's name" and four pages of "letter to Successor Trustee".
Sorry for being a rock, but how many copies of each of these do I need to take to my dealer and which ones need to be notorized?
Thanks a ton, I REALLY don't want to screw this up as it is a 5 hour drive to my dealer.
ETA-I have spent a few days now trying to go over all this stuff on different websites and for the life of me cannot find a "step by step for idiots way of forming a trust and getting a can". If one is out there, please let me knwo and I will stop wasting everyones time.
Re: NFA Trust?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scimitar2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, so I just did the Quicken WM thing and have a question. For the property to be entered, I put in "all National Firearms Act items" as I do not have serial numbers at this point for a better description. Is this kosher, or should I put something else?
So now I have the 6 page "Decleration of Trust" that needs to be notorized, a one page "Scheadul A", a one page "Assignment of Property", a one page "Property you must transfer into a trustee's name" and four pages of "letter to Successor Trustee".
Sorry for being a rock, but how many copies of each of these do I need to take to my dealer and which ones need to be notorized?
Thanks a ton, I REALLY don't want to screw this up as it is a 5 hour drive to my dealer.
ETA-I have spent a few days now trying to go over all this stuff on different websites and for the life of me cannot find a "step by step for idiots way of forming a trust and getting a can". If one is out there, please let me knwo and I will stop wasting everyones time. </div></div>
From my post above.
"While many practitioners will advise the purchaser to simply submit a Certificate of Trust (typically a short one page notarized document confirming the existence of the trust and identifying the Trustee) as proof, the author recommends that you submit a full copy of the trust itself to avoid any questions from ATF as to the legitimacy and existence of the Trust."
If it were me, I'd send in the 6 page declaration of trust, notarized.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scimitar2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, so I just did the Quicken WM thing and have a question. For the property to be entered, I put in "all National Firearms Act items" as I do not have serial numbers at this point for a better description. Is this kosher, or should I put something else?
So now I have the 6 page "Decleration of Trust" that needs to be notorized, a one page "Scheadul A", a one page "Assignment of Property", a one page "Property you must transfer into a trustee's name" and four pages of "letter to Successor Trustee".
Sorry for being a rock, but how many copies of each of these do I need to take to my dealer and which ones need to be notorized?
Thanks a ton, I REALLY don't want to screw this up as it is a 5 hour drive to my dealer.
ETA-I have spent a few days now trying to go over all this stuff on different websites and for the life of me cannot find a "step by step for idiots way of forming a trust and getting a can". If one is out there, please let me knwo and I will stop wasting everyones time. </div></div>
From my post above.
"While many practitioners will advise the purchaser to simply submit a Certificate of Trust (typically a short one page notarized document confirming the existence of the trust and identifying the Trustee) as proof, the author recommends that you submit a full copy of the trust itself to avoid any questions from ATF as to the legitimacy and existence of the Trust."
If it were me, I'd send in the 6 page declaration of trust, notarized.
Re: NFA Trust?
+1 scimitar2...... Can one of you guys that has gone the Will Maker route do a step by step for us Bricks around here??
+1 scimitar2...... Can one of you guys that has gone the Will Maker route do a step by step for us Bricks around here??
Re: NFA Trust?
Ditto, I would really like to do this but don't want to F*ck it up for obvious reasons
Ditto, I would really like to do this but don't want to F*ck it up for obvious reasons
Re: NFA Trust?
I don't have the serial #'s of the suppressors should I just contact the FFL Dealer, get the ser.# and then send it or can you send it without them??
I don't have the serial #'s of the suppressors should I just contact the FFL Dealer, get the ser.# and then send it or can you send it without them??
Re: NFA Trust?
I just finished up my living revocable trust a little bit ago. It was relatively painless to complete. I'm gonna get it notarized monday and hopefully mail in my form 4 the same day. Now I just gotta verify what I need to send with the form 4 to be gtg. I'm stoked about it! The can is an SAS (CT Suppressors) 7.62mm. I checked it out at my dealers this afternoon and it looks and feels sweet. 9" and made from SS. I just wish it wasn't welded on the end cap. Hopefully I can shoot it next weekend. Weapon is an EA AR10T in 308. I used Quicken for the trust.
I just finished up my living revocable trust a little bit ago. It was relatively painless to complete. I'm gonna get it notarized monday and hopefully mail in my form 4 the same day. Now I just gotta verify what I need to send with the form 4 to be gtg. I'm stoked about it! The can is an SAS (CT Suppressors) 7.62mm. I checked it out at my dealers this afternoon and it looks and feels sweet. 9" and made from SS. I just wish it wasn't welded on the end cap. Hopefully I can shoot it next weekend. Weapon is an EA AR10T in 308. I used Quicken for the trust.
Re: NFA Trust?
Hey Snyper762, Where in Savannah are you located?.....I live in the area and so does Phil1010 here on the hide, also did you add the serial#'s when you filled out the paper work?
Hey Snyper762, Where in Savannah are you located?.....I live in the area and so does Phil1010 here on the hide, also did you add the serial#'s when you filled out the paper work?
Re: NFA Trust?
greywolf, I believe you're supposed to get the form4 from your dealer and he should've filled in the appropriate info, like the serial#
greywolf, I believe you're supposed to get the form4 from your dealer and he should've filled in the appropriate info, like the serial#
Re: NFA Trust?
I'm right off Abercorn (204) behind the Savannah mall (Bass Pro).
My guy filled in the SN on the Form 4's, I added it in the trust. Got CLS class all this week so I can't get my stuff notarized till atleast Friday.
I'm right off Abercorn (204) behind the Savannah mall (Bass Pro).
My guy filled in the SN on the Form 4's, I added it in the trust. Got CLS class all this week so I can't get my stuff notarized till atleast Friday.
Re: NFA Trust?
Cool.
I'm in Rincon just up the road...we'll have to get to the range sometime.
GW36
Cool.
I'm in Rincon just up the road...we'll have to get to the range sometime.
GW36
Re: NFA Trust?
No prob. Only places I know of are the Richmond Hill Range(no C3 stuff allowed), some range out in Hinesville run by Josh @ Mission Essential, and the range on Stewart. Anywhere else?
No prob. Only places I know of are the Richmond Hill Range(no C3 stuff allowed), some range out in Hinesville run by Josh @ Mission Essential, and the range on Stewart. Anywhere else?
Re: NFA Trust?
Yeh I'm a member of the Altamaha Shooting Club it's about an hour and some change from here but we can shoot out to 300yds and all things are allowed.
Yeh I'm a member of the Altamaha Shooting Club it's about an hour and some change from here but we can shoot out to 300yds and all things are allowed.
Re: NFA Trust?
you can download Form 4s from the ATFs website here
http://www.atf.gov/forms/5300instructions.htm#5320
ATF F 5320.4 (Form 4) - Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm
make sure to print page 1 on one side of the paper and page 2 on the backside of the same paper- and so on.
you can download Form 4s from the ATFs website here
http://www.atf.gov/forms/5300instructions.htm#5320
ATF F 5320.4 (Form 4) - Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm
make sure to print page 1 on one side of the paper and page 2 on the backside of the same paper- and so on.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: NFA Trust?
Guys...
You don't need to add serials numbers for a can you don't even own yet. Even if you have paid for it until the ATF transfers it to you IT IS NOT YOURS. In the trust you are only allowed to list items that belong to you that you want the trust to hold. If you don't have the can you cannot enter it.
For what it's worth I used a ball point pen in mine, the first one took 43 days. It was sent back because I did not put a reason in for wanting to own the item. So snail mailing it back and forth ate up some time.
I've done 3 now. Anyone that needs assistance feel free to PM me.
Guys...
You don't need to add serials numbers for a can you don't even own yet. Even if you have paid for it until the ATF transfers it to you IT IS NOT YOURS. In the trust you are only allowed to list items that belong to you that you want the trust to hold. If you don't have the can you cannot enter it.
For what it's worth I used a ball point pen in mine, the first one took 43 days. It was sent back because I did not put a reason in for wanting to own the item. So snail mailing it back and forth ate up some time.
I've done 3 now. Anyone that needs assistance feel free to PM me.
Re: NFA Trust?
Here's another link for the forms that you can type in the info to make it a little neater looking than hand writing it in.
http://www.titleii.com/Forms.htm
Here's another link for the forms that you can type in the info to make it a little neater looking than hand writing it in.
http://www.titleii.com/Forms.htm
Re: NFA Trust?
OK.. I Just pulled the trigger on a Gemtech Outback II today, using my Willmaker Trust..all Looked good... Now to forget about it till it comes back. This is my first NFa Item, so it is a learning experience..
OK.. I Just pulled the trigger on a Gemtech Outback II today, using my Willmaker Trust..all Looked good... Now to forget about it till it comes back. This is my first NFa Item, so it is a learning experience..
Re: NFA Trust?
I set up my trust after my CLEO would not sign my form 4. I work for him as a Police Officer, and he would not sigh @#$$%!
so I set up a revokable living trust using quicken wilmaker. I received my suppressed pistol today.
Under a previous administration I had the CLEO sign off on a form 4 and a form 1 with no problem. Having done it both ways, It is my opinion that using a trust is the only way to go.
DVC,
Dan'L
I set up my trust after my CLEO would not sign my form 4. I work for him as a Police Officer, and he would not sigh @#$$%!
so I set up a revokable living trust using quicken wilmaker. I received my suppressed pistol today.
Under a previous administration I had the CLEO sign off on a form 4 and a form 1 with no problem. Having done it both ways, It is my opinion that using a trust is the only way to go.
DVC,
Dan'L
Re: NFA Trust?
Are you guys using the basic or AB trust in Willlmaker? I know the difference has to do with taxes but I don't know if it's estate taxes or tax stamp type taxes. Also, how much other stuff besides NFA gear did you put on it (did you want the government to know about) ? Has anyone had a form 4 kicked back because their trust was missing something? What does the ATF actually look for in the trust ?
Are you guys using the basic or AB trust in Willlmaker? I know the difference has to do with taxes but I don't know if it's estate taxes or tax stamp type taxes. Also, how much other stuff besides NFA gear did you put on it (did you want the government to know about) ? Has anyone had a form 4 kicked back because their trust was missing something? What does the ATF actually look for in the trust ?
Re: NFA Trust?
Basic type(Revocable Living Trust). The name of the "Weapon Owner" is "revocable living trust of XXX Person". IT is good to go..
Basic type(Revocable Living Trust). The name of the "Weapon Owner" is "revocable living trust of XXX Person". IT is good to go..
Re: NFA Trust?
I dont remember having to have a reason. the dealer I use has a pre filled out sheet you just sign, I have a copy, ill have to look..
I dont remember having to have a reason. the dealer I use has a pre filled out sheet you just sign, I have a copy, ill have to look..
Re: NFA Trust?
Hey Guys,
Heads up, an NFA examiner mentioned over on ARFCOM that the ATF is now having in house lawyers to look over ALL trust transfers now. The influx of trust form 1/4s has been exponential this year. Make sure your trust is in accordance with your state laws, Im not advocating getting a lawyer, but just make sure you dont pull anything stupid like making yourself the grantor, sole trustee, and sole beneficiary.
He also said to include all paperwork now, not just the certification. The cert doesn't display wether or not your trust is in accordance with your individual state. Since the Lawyers are reviewing all trust transfers, they might slow up a little bit, FYI.
Hey Guys,
Heads up, an NFA examiner mentioned over on ARFCOM that the ATF is now having in house lawyers to look over ALL trust transfers now. The influx of trust form 1/4s has been exponential this year. Make sure your trust is in accordance with your state laws, Im not advocating getting a lawyer, but just make sure you dont pull anything stupid like making yourself the grantor, sole trustee, and sole beneficiary.
He also said to include all paperwork now, not just the certification. The cert doesn't display wether or not your trust is in accordance with your individual state. Since the Lawyers are reviewing all trust transfers, they might slow up a little bit, FYI.
Re: NFA Trust?
Willmaker wont let you do the wrong thing for your state...the only way you can screw it up is if you make manual edits.
I sent my whole document in when I did mine...Should be another few weeks.. They cashed the check in 2 days,lol.
Willmaker wont let you do the wrong thing for your state...the only way you can screw it up is if you make manual edits.
I sent my whole document in when I did mine...Should be another few weeks..
They cashed the check in 2 days,lol.Re: NFA Trust?
Yeah, I'm with you.
Lot's of good info, but a complete step by step would ease my mind.
TBC
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scimitar2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, so I just did the Quicken WM thing and have a question. For the property to be entered, I put in "all National Firearms Act items" as I do not have serial numbers at this point for a better description. Is this kosher, or should I put something else?
So now I have the 6 page "Decleration of Trust" that needs to be notorized, a one page "Scheadul A", a one page "Assignment of Property", a one page "Property you must transfer into a trustee's name" and four pages of "letter to Successor Trustee".
Sorry for being a rock, but how many copies of each of these do I need to take to my dealer and which ones need to be notorized?
Thanks a ton, I REALLY don't want to screw this up as it is a 5 hour drive to my dealer.
ETA-I have spent a few days now trying to go over all this stuff on different websites and for the life of me cannot find a "step by step for idiots way of forming a trust and getting a can". If one is out there, please let me knwo and I will stop wasting everyones time. </div></div>
Yeah, I'm with you.
Lot's of good info, but a complete step by step would ease my mind.
TBC
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scimitar2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, so I just did the Quicken WM thing and have a question. For the property to be entered, I put in "all National Firearms Act items" as I do not have serial numbers at this point for a better description. Is this kosher, or should I put something else?
So now I have the 6 page "Decleration of Trust" that needs to be notorized, a one page "Scheadul A", a one page "Assignment of Property", a one page "Property you must transfer into a trustee's name" and four pages of "letter to Successor Trustee".
Sorry for being a rock, but how many copies of each of these do I need to take to my dealer and which ones need to be notorized?
Thanks a ton, I REALLY don't want to screw this up as it is a 5 hour drive to my dealer.
ETA-I have spent a few days now trying to go over all this stuff on different websites and for the life of me cannot find a "step by step for idiots way of forming a trust and getting a can". If one is out there, please let me knwo and I will stop wasting everyones time. </div></div>
Re: NFA Trust?
<span style="color: #FF0000">Here's</span> a very helpful link to pics of the forms all properly filled out. Wish I'd seen it earlier, would've saved me a ton of time!
TBC
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scimitar2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, so I just did the Quicken WM thing and have a question. For the property to be entered, I put in "all National Firearms Act items" as I do not have serial numbers at this point for a better description. Is this kosher, or should I put something else?
So now I have the 6 page "Decleration of Trust" that needs to be notorized, a one page "Scheadul A", a one page "Assignment of Property", a one page "Property you must transfer into a trustee's name" and four pages of "letter to Successor Trustee".
Sorry for being a rock, but how many copies of each of these do I need to take to my dealer and which ones need to be notorized?
Thanks a ton, I REALLY don't want to screw this up as it is a 5 hour drive to my dealer.
ETA-I have spent a few days now trying to go over all this stuff on different websites and for the life of me cannot find a "step by step for idiots way of forming a trust and getting a can". If one is out there, please let me knwo and I will stop wasting everyones time. </div></div>
<span style="color: #FF0000">Here's</span> a very helpful link to pics of the forms all properly filled out. Wish I'd seen it earlier, would've saved me a ton of time!
TBC
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scimitar2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, so I just did the Quicken WM thing and have a question. For the property to be entered, I put in "all National Firearms Act items" as I do not have serial numbers at this point for a better description. Is this kosher, or should I put something else?
So now I have the 6 page "Decleration of Trust" that needs to be notorized, a one page "Scheadul A", a one page "Assignment of Property", a one page "Property you must transfer into a trustee's name" and four pages of "letter to Successor Trustee".
Sorry for being a rock, but how many copies of each of these do I need to take to my dealer and which ones need to be notorized?
Thanks a ton, I REALLY don't want to screw this up as it is a 5 hour drive to my dealer.
ETA-I have spent a few days now trying to go over all this stuff on different websites and for the life of me cannot find a "step by step for idiots way of forming a trust and getting a can". If one is out there, please let me knwo and I will stop wasting everyones time. </div></div>
Re: NFA Trust?
Got my Form 4 back with the stamp and took my new toy home today. Forms, payment and trust were delivered 24 June. Recieved stamp today dated 17 July. That's pretty damn good.
Got my Form 4 back with the stamp and took my new toy home today. Forms, payment and trust were delivered 24 June. Recieved stamp today dated 17 July. That's pretty damn good.
Re: NFA Trust?
Has anyone in Texas done a Revocable Trust for NFA?
I tried the Quicken thing, but I want to setup the trust with my son and I(he's well over 18).
The Quicken Trusts only has provisions for you and spouse.
Does anyone know of an attorney in the Dallas area that has experience with NFA Revocable Trusts?
Thanks for any info.
Has anyone in Texas done a Revocable Trust for NFA?
I tried the Quicken thing, but I want to setup the trust with my son and I(he's well over 18).
The Quicken Trusts only has provisions for you and spouse.
Does anyone know of an attorney in the Dallas area that has experience with NFA Revocable Trusts?
Thanks for any info.
Re: NFA Trust?
So if im making a Trust without knowing what NFA item im getting right now how do you fill out the ITEMS OF TRUST PROPERTY?
Also once you I do get an NFA item, do I just edit the Trust with the name and serial number and get it notarized again?
So if im making a Trust without knowing what NFA item im getting right now how do you fill out the ITEMS OF TRUST PROPERTY?
Also once you I do get an NFA item, do I just edit the Trust with the name and serial number and get it notarized again?
Re: NFA Trust?
In my experience, I would not put a generic "All NFA Items". If this is your first item, you do not list it until it really is in your possession. Just paying for it does not count. Once you take possession of said item officially, then you list it in the trust by amending it. You do not need to get it notarized again. This is what I did and it worked just fine. I have 2 cans on the way but they are not in my trust until I get the form 4s back. I hope this helps.
In my experience, I would not put a generic "All NFA Items". If this is your first item, you do not list it until it really is in your possession. Just paying for it does not count. Once you take possession of said item officially, then you list it in the trust by amending it. You do not need to get it notarized again. This is what I did and it worked just fine. I have 2 cans on the way but they are not in my trust until I get the form 4s back. I hope this helps.
Re: NFA Trust?
Can I submit a Trust with no items listed at all. This is going to be a NFA only Trust. I will make a separate Trust for my other needs.
Can I submit a Trust with no items listed at all. This is going to be a NFA only Trust. I will make a separate Trust for my other needs.
Re: NFA Trust?
I believe you can. Others who have done this have not put in other items but I chose to put in very simple items that do not require a title (ie cars) or deeds to a home. Personally, I wanted to add simple thinks to make it look more legit but I do not believe you have to do so. This was my preference only. Someone else might chime in how the process went for them by forming a trust with only NFA items. Remember, there is no harm in putting in items like bicycles, furniture etc.. To me, who cares if the ATF knows you are putting in such common items. Good luck.
I believe you can. Others who have done this have not put in other items but I chose to put in very simple items that do not require a title (ie cars) or deeds to a home. Personally, I wanted to add simple thinks to make it look more legit but I do not believe you have to do so. This was my preference only. Someone else might chime in how the process went for them by forming a trust with only NFA items. Remember, there is no harm in putting in items like bicycles, furniture etc.. To me, who cares if the ATF knows you are putting in such common items. Good luck.
Re: NFA Trust?
Has ATF made a definitive ruling about trusts and who can be in possession of NFA items listed on the trust (i.e. any trustee)?
Has ATF made a definitive ruling about trusts and who can be in possession of NFA items listed on the trust (i.e. any trustee)?
Re: NFA Trust?
Another question for you guys who currently have trust set up for NFA items. If I have someone set up as an executor, can they be in possession of the NFA item without me there? With the Corp I can put people on it and they can use my NFA toys. I would like to be able to do that with the Trust.
Another question for you guys who currently have trust set up for NFA items. If I have someone set up as an executor, can they be in possession of the NFA item without me there? With the Corp I can put people on it and they can use my NFA toys. I would like to be able to do that with the Trust.
Re: NFA Trust?
I submitted a trust for a 338 can here in NV on Dec. 6th,I see my check to the BATF cleared on the 13th.I'll post again when I have my suppressor.
I submitted a trust for a 338 can here in NV on Dec. 6th,I see my check to the BATF cleared on the 13th.I'll post again when I have my suppressor.
Re: NFA Trust?
My trust went quick and the ATF must be moving fast also, mine went in the first week if Nov, the stamp was cleared on 12-10 and in my hands on 12-14. I'm happy with the turnaround time.
B.
My trust went quick and the ATF must be moving fast also, mine went in the first week if Nov, the stamp was cleared on 12-10 and in my hands on 12-14. I'm happy with the turnaround time.
B.
Re: NFA Trust?
Great, I had to read this thread. I just realized I already have a trust.........now I need to obsess on NFA items, like I don't spend enough already!!!!
Great, I had to read this thread. I just realized I already have a trust.........now I need to obsess on NFA items, like I don't spend enough already!!!!
