Suppressors NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

[native]

I went to go pick up a new suppressor yesterday after the now typical 5 month wait, only to have the dealer tell me I'll have to wait another week now!!
Seems that a 4473 which previously needed filled out and just filed, is now turned into a full NICS check? "They are asking us to do the back ground check for corps trusts now" was the response back from the dealer."

I did not recall this being the case with my previous items so I call my usual/more frequented SOT and he says, "you don't have to do a NICS check" Now I'm stuck another week due to the craziness bullshit of late and CBI here in Colorado being backed up 6-7 days.

I don't have a problem if this is what everyone is required to do of late, but if not than WTF? So, any thoughts/clarifications here would be helpful.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

I'm an idiot

 

[native]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">current dealer is an idiot </div></div>

Well that current dealer is a SH sponsor
Probably has a banner ad on your screen right now and seems to be well respected here.
I dont think he/they is an idiot by any means but maybe misinformed?

 

[Havoc]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

Curious to see how this turns out and get some responses from dealers and SOT's on here. A few of the forums have been professing that changes were coming.

 

[John L]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

Guys,
I thought with a trust purchase of an NFA item there always was a NICS check when picking the item up. My dealer has done this both times, (suppressors on a trust) though in MI with a CPL the dealer has the choice to call it in or not to.

 

[Charger442]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

i just picked up a can on a trust yesterday. you fill out the 4473 and sign the back bottom portion that says the NICS is waived since you just did the NFA check.

trust or individual, i don't think it matters, but a 4473 IS filled out to be processed out of the dealers books, but no background check is needed.

though, my NICS is always waived, NFA or not, because i am a state CHL holder.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

if they call it in, what type of firearm do they specify it as?

that's your answer right there, silencers do not fall into either of the three categories. not to mention there is a field you check stating no nics check required because the transfer was a nfa item.

I am a ffl/ sot btw. I'm not claiming to know everything by any means, but unless they've rolled out new 4473's in the past two days, a nics check is not possible without lying to the fbi

 

[native]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> if they call it in, what type of firearm do they specify it as?

that's your answer right there, silencers do not fall into either of the three categories. not to mention there is a field you check stating no nics check required because the transfer was a nfa item.

I am a ffl/ sot btw. I'm not claiming to know everything by any means, but unless they've rolled out new 4473's in the past two days, a nics check is not possible without lying to the fbi </div></div>

So after brewing about this a little more this morning, I have a call into the owner. The owner not being available at this time, the employee I talked and worked with yesterday explained this has always been "their" policy, so no new 4473 or directive for them, just something they do to protect themselves and "ME"....protect me "oh really" I say.
As to the questions of "what type of firearm do they specify it as?"
It is marked as "other"

I guess a business has the right to conduct business and protect themselves as they see fit?
Just curious if any other dealers/sots with this requirement here?

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

I don't know how they get through an atf audit, unless they haven't had one yet. for those who think other sounds like a good category for a silencer, it is a very specific other and the 4473 goes into detail exactly what is included... silencer is not in there

 

[RNP]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

Here is my response per the NFA reg's that are on their website
Section 9.12 Are FFLs/SOTs required to initiate a background check of the transferee under the
Brady Law in connection with the transfer of an NFA firearm? No. Although 18 U.S.C. § 922(t)
requires an FFL to complete a National Instant Criminal Background Checks System (NICS) check of
the firearm recipient prior to completing the transfer, subsection 922(t)(3)(B) removes ATF-approved
transfers of NFA firearms from the NICS requirement for individuals.
9.12.1 NFA Transfers to other than individuals. Subsequent to the approval of an application
requesting to transfer an NFA firearm to, or on behalf of, a partnership, company, association,
trust, estate, or corporation, the authorized person picking up the firearm on behalf of, a
176 Ibid. See also 27 CFR 479.105(d)
177 27 CFR 479.105(c)
66
partnership, company, association, trust, estate, or corporation from the FFL must complete the
Form 4473 with his/her personal information and undergo a NICS check. See also, question P60
in the ATF FAQs.
I have a call into NFA branch to see if this has changed.
Thank you Force Multiplier for calling me a idiot.
I always knew I was lacking in something.
Thank you
Randy

 

[gixxerk8]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

Been that way as long as I know of, individual no NICS. Trust or Corp has to have NICS check on the person taking delivery.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

Mile High Shooting has it right.

Individuals don't need a NICS because the Form transfer satisfies those requirements.

Trust/LLC/Corp whoever is picking the item up needs a NICS check.

When I called it in I would state the weapon is "NFA", and they proceeded as usual.

If it wasn't necessary NICS would tell you to not waste their time. So at least the FBI sees it as necessary.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

here in lies the problem with this whole fucked up system. when I can ask 3 different atf agents at different levels and be told none required. and you have that response from them. How are you ever supposed to know what is right

can't say I'll be disappointed to see the trust loophole go away as long as Cleo sign off goes away at same time.

 

[gixxerk8]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> if they call it in, what type of firearm do they specify it as?

that's your answer right there, silencers do not fall into either of the three categories. not to mention there is a field you check stating no nics check required because the transfer was a nfa item.

I am a ffl/ sot btw. I'm not claiming to know everything by any means, but unless they've rolled out new 4473's in the past two days, a nics check is not possible without lying to the fbi </div></div>

I have never seen the NICS screen, but heard the employee ask the boss 3 days ago what to check for what it is. Boss said "noise reducing device" or something along that line and employee said "Oh I see it". For Oregon anyway

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

damn.. learn something new everyday... like others have said everyone at the ATF I ever asked said "not needed"...

 

[-Nick-]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mile High Shooting</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thank you Force Multiplier for calling me a idiot.

I always knew I was lacking in something.
Thank you
Randy </div></div>

Sorry FM... I tried to resist, but my lack of maturity got the better of me.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

I tend to listen to ATF Industry Operations over the generic ATF guy thats on phone duty.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

Randy I think you misunderstood. Let me interpret Force_Multiplier as he's a little too much Country...

Here's what he wrote in backwoods talk...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">current dealer is an idiot</div></div>

Here's what me meant...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I strongly disagree with your dealer... lets discuss further.</div></div>

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mile High Shooting has it right.

When I called it in I would state the weapon is "NFA", and they proceeded as usual.

If it wasn't necessary NICS would tell you to not waste their time. So at least the FBI sees it as necessary. </div></div>

This is funny (not calling you a liar) because the one time I wasnt paying attention calling in a check on a stripped lower. I accidentally said receiver as the firearm type instead of other, and it was like I said something in chinese to the guy. He says, "sir we only have three choices available, long gun, hand gun, and other". I wanted to say are you fucking kidding me, you cant figure out that I meant other?

You simply say NFA and they dont ask any questions, just proceed like you told them it was a handgun?

Its amazing, something so regulated like silencers, that there should even be a discussion here. Obviously if theres half and half in this thread, then its most likely that way across the country, and they would want it done the correct way.

Unless they dont really care if the checks are done, and they figure its not hurting anything the guys that ARE doing them maybe.

 

[Stalking_Rhino]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StalkingRhino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mile High Shooting has it right.

When I called it in I would state the weapon is "NFA", and they proceeded as usual.

If it wasn't necessary NICS would tell you to not waste their time. So at least the FBI sees it as necessary. </div></div>

This is funny (not calling you a liar) because the one time I wasnt paying attention calling in a check on a stripped lower. I accidentally said receiver as the firearm type instead of other, and it was like I said something in chinese to the guy. He says, "sir we only have three choices available, long gun, hand gun, and other". I wanted to say are you fucking kidding me, you cant figure out that I meant other?

You simply say NFA and they dont ask any questions, just proceed like you told them it was a handgun?

Its amazing, something so regulated like silencers, that there should even be a discussion here. Obviously if theres half and half in this thread, then its most likely that way across the country, and they would want it done the correct way.

Unless they dont really care if the checks are done, and they figure its not hurting anything the guys that ARE doing them maybe. </div></div>

If you don't actually say "OTHER" then they can't assume anything. It is standard government, you have to say exactly what they need to hear.

I never had an issue saying "NFA" and them going from there.

 

[Arbiter]

Re: NICS check with Corps and Trusts now??

Been standard here for years that any NFA transfer to a corporation or a trust requires a background check through FDLE (our state version of NICS) before the 4473 can be signed off on. We check the box for "other" on the 4473 and on the background check information system.

Theoretically, I could skip the background check if the item was being transferred directly to an individual, but I've literally never once seen an individual manage to get a CLEO sign-off in our area. Just the usual "friend of a friend once saw one signed off" sort of stories.

 

[microsuck]

At my last compliance inspection about a year ago, my inspector told me to check the box and do not run NICS for NFA, regardless if trust or individual. He told me they all know its a problem in the regs.