Nigerian Scammer

[556ARs]

Up For Sale:
NF 4-16x42 FFP Model C552

Include:
box
manual
lens caps
Manual, box

Condition:
In excellent condition, I'd say it has an overall 98% condition.
Turrets are all clean with zero chips or scrapes.

Features:
Zero stop
.1 Mil-Rad
Mil-R
CW
PTL
Digillum
LP ZHold

Usage:
was mounted on my GAP .223 rifle
took it to the range a couple times and hunted with it twice, it has been in the box ever since.
$1550, Pm me if interested,
Thanks.

 

[MOUNTIC]

Removed my offer. If this is legit I'll let someone else take it.

 

[JBSTRD]

Seconds of deal falls through

 

[MOUNTIC]

Per other member warning me about a possible scam going on here.. I'm out.

 

[JBSTRD]

In that case, so am I.

 

[mx711yam]

What's the deal on this I just paid him for an nxs....

 

[Christoph]

I don't want to air it out. It has been reported, I hope it is just a misunderstanding. I edited my comment due to giving op a fair go to clear it up.

 

[Tucker301]

Thanks, @SandiegoReloader27 for looking out.
This is going to get technical and likely boring, but it needs to be explained.

The scammers are elevating their game to increible levels.
I was watching this one when they were doing a lot of posts in discussion sections. They seemed to be making a run for 100. The posts were in context and in good English.
They were using proxy servers, but @lowlight urges us to allow proxies because there are some legitimate reasons for them.
I even PM'd fellow Mod @padom and asked him to help me keep an eye on the account.

They got to well100 and kept going, with no PX posts, and it appeared that their goal to get PX access was not what they were after. So I lowered my guard and stopped watching. At that time, they were connecting via US proxies and some US non-proxies.

Now that this was flagged, I can see that they have more recently connected from Nigeria.

So here's my theory.

1. They create an account and let it sleep for months. Up to a year.
2. They partner with someone in the US or used compromised systems in the US to make their activities appear to be US based.
3. The build trust through making sensible posts and comments.
4. They implement their scams using photos and descriptions from other sites. This one was listed on Arfcom.

It's back to what we've trying to tell everyone for years.
DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE!
If it's too good to be true...

We deny the obvious attempts to gain access, but they are getting more and more sophisticated.

Frank tells us, "It's not our job to vet every seller or buyer", and he's right. It isn't.
I'll keep trying, but you guys HAVE to stop falling for this shit too.
Just because they have PX access it doesn't mean they're clean.

This one didn't pull a single Nigerian IP in his first 100+ posts. This is from Tuesday.

 

[mx711yam]

Good thing I paid via PayPal

Thanks for letting us know!

 

[Tucker301]

Good thing I paid via PayPal

Thanks for letting us know!

You will likely have a very long road ahead in getting that money back.
I get it. A good deal pops up. The seller has been here a year. Their activity looks legit. It's too good to ignore and you better act quickly before someone else grabs it.
It's a bad situation. I still advocate no PX access until they've been here a year AND have at least 100 meaningful posts properly amortized over that term.

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

I almost always use Google image search on any pictures I receive. That alone has saved me thousands. I also ask for a picture with a handwritten note with my name on it.

 

[mx711yam]

You will likely have a very long road ahead in getting that money back.
I get it. A good deal pops up. The seller has been here a year. Their activity looks legit. It's too good to ignore and you better act quickly before someone else grabs it.
It's a bad situation. I still advocate no PX access until they've been here a year AND have at least 100 meaningful posts properly amortized over that term.

Yeah I have started looking through posts before buying, saw a long history with this guy and I recall seeing his name before so didn't think much of it. I'll go file my PayPal claim now, thanks for looking out!

 

[Tucker301]

I almost always use Google image search on any pictures I receive. That alone has saved me thousands. I also ask for a picture with a handwritten note with my name on it.

That's a good practice, but even that is not infallible. ?

 

[Iamero]

Out of curiosity, what flagged for you guys @SandiegoReloader27 @jwknutson17 that made you catch on? I was looking at this one and fell asleep before messaging the guy.

 

[MOUNTIC]

Out of curiosity, what flagged for you guys @SandiegoReloader27 @jwknutson17 that made you catch on? I was looking at this one and fell asleep before messaging the guy.

@SandiegoReloader27 messaged me and said he received pictures from him that were taken from an AR15 .com ad that sold back months ago. He also mentioned he only would accept money orders. He sent me the link to the ARF website ad and he was also using some of the guys same description.

So right there I just pulled the plug.

 

[Iamero]

I was curious about that but then also saw that mx said he paid via PayPal. Damn, good catch on this one. Guess I’m going to have to start doing the reverse image lookup on ads as well.

 

[Tucker301]

I was curious about that but then also saw that mx said he paid via PayPal. Damn, good catch on this one. Guess I’m going to have to start doing the reverse image lookup on ads as well.

Those can be tricky at times. Sometimes all you get back is "girl"... I mean "gun".

 

[mx711yam]

Yeah I paid via PayPal goods and services, guy was good with it and told me he would have tracking today. And really it wasn't a steal on the other scope I paid for anyways just a solid deal. So didnt see a ton of flags originally

 

[MOUNTIC]

Both ads said... "Turrets are all clean with zero chips or scrapes" That's not really a common description I've seen many people use describing turrets that aren't damaged. Coupled that with the mentioned above and using the same photos, I knew it was a bad deal.

 

[MOUNTIC]

Yeah I paid via PayPal goods and services, guy was good with it and told me he would have tracking today. And really it wasn't a steal on the other scope I paid for anyways just a solid deal. So didnt see a ton of flags originally

Maybe you were the first, and once you paid G&S he started only asking for money orders after. Probably was hoping you would pay F&F. Hope you get your money back.

 

[Tucker301]

Google that phrase.

Nightforce ATACR C552

Excellent condition NF 4-16x42 MILR C552 that has been used but is still in excellent condition, not a single mark on it anywhere. Turrets are all clean with zero chips or scrapes. Comes with box, lens caps, manual, basically everything that came with it new and a set of Nightforce 1.375 3...

www.aldeer.com

 

[JBSTRD]

Thanks for looking out everyone. Good catch and very eye opening how elaborate the scammers are getting. I thought it was weird it listed box and manual twice. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Christoph]

Out of curiosity, what flagged for you guys @SandiegoReloader27 @jwknutson17 that made you catch on? I was looking at this one and fell asleep before messaging the guy.

Everything felt off. Too good of a deal type thing. Once he sent the pictures and said USPS money order only I decided to just do a reverse image search. He is still sending me emails. I got one this morning saying he would take PayPal. This one was easy to spot but I am sure with others it might be little more difficult. Glad nobody got burned. Anyone have a atacr 4-16 they want to sell for $1550. Probably not, lol. but if you do I will take it.

 

[Downtown]

I was almost caught a few weeks ago. (Thanks, Mods) Sellers account was more than a year old. I went back and read old posts and the seller wrote knowledgeably about the subjects. His mistake, and my saving grace, was when he gave a name for payment that when googled was a Nigerian academic. Thankfully I was able to warn another buyer. I went back and googled some old posts of his to discover they had been copied and pasted from other forums. Damn tricky. This really takes the fun out of Internet shopping.

 

[nn8734]

I saw this yesterday and thought the price was unusually low but not typical of what you see with fraudsters. That said, None of those scopes, including the one I just sold here, are being listed for less than 1800.00, and thats for non-Horus versions. Thought about buying it to sell and make a few bucks but something didn’t feel right about it so I elected not to engage.

Anytime I buy something worth more than $300 or so (your personal dollar threshold may vary) from a member I don’t know or not previously done deals with, I always ask for full contact info (name, mailing address, cell phone) and always use PayPal goods and services when paying. If they don’t take Paypal and won’t provide contact info, I move on.

 

[MOUNTIC]

I've seen them as low as 1620 for the Mil R. Quiet a few in that 1700 range also. So figured 1550 was only 100 bucks off of what some have been going for when people want a quick sale. Good enough of a deal to jump on quick but not extremely low to wonder what was really up with the scope.

 

[nn8734]

Yea they are definitely getting slicker about it. Glad this was caught before anyone was taken.

I’ve seen a couple go for that price on here and AR15 but with no box or papers or a little rough around the edges. When I sold mine, it had all the papers, box etc and was near mint so I just looked at like kind listing’s. Saw three others listed for $1800-$1950 but admittedly I don’t know what they actually sold for.

Yea I stared at that post for about 5 minutes going back and forth on whether I should say “I’ll take it, pm sent” lol.

 

[Tucker301]

If you get an email you can try to check the headers and then trace the IP address using the same tools we use on the forums.

How do I Find my Email Headers?

Instructions on how to find email headers in various client applications and webmail sites.

whatismyipaddress.com

Instant IP Address Lookup

Lookup details about an IP address including location, ISP, hostname, type, proxy, blacklist status and more. Trace, Track and Locate an IP address.

whatismyipaddress.com

 

[Downtown]

The seller that almost got me even had a nine month old post for an expensive item marked sold. That ad requested a money order, which I always use. However, during our negotiations the seller requested a money wire. A believable reason, but made me suspicious. Then the Nigerian name. I backed out politely, but reported it immediately and our great moderator was quick with a ban. I've not been scammed yet, but have never come closer. Be careful out there.

 

[PatMiles]

Get a phone number so you can ask a few knowledgeable questions about the item. Ask where the seller is located, what city, then ask for a pic of the item that includes the front page of the local newspaper. Use Spokeo to double verify. The scammers are obviously getting smarter, we need to get smarter also.
Let the buyer beware.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Everything felt off. Too good of a deal type thing. Once he sent the pictures and said USPS money order only

If you wanted to take things a bit further, you could contact the local police department for the city that they gave you the address to send the money to. Call them up and talk to someone knowledgeable about things and explain it's a Nigerian scam ring using a local mule at xxx address.
There is a good chance they can visit said mule and possibly recover funds / property.

It's a big business these folks do. They get some greedy/lazy/stupid person in the USA to receive packages / money for them and then forward the money / goods on to the actual scammers.

We were dealing with scammers trying to buy laptops using stolen cards but putting all the correct person's name/address on the packages and trying to re-direct them. We figured it out because the guys didn't realize we manually processed all the orders & everyone talks to everyone. So we sent out boxes of scrap instead.

Later on we got a call from a local police detective asking if we wanted our boxes of scrap back because they busted a mule who was receiving tons of packages for her "boyfriend" and then consolidating them & mailing them off.

Sometimes the mules are in on it & sometimes they are poor saps (both male and female) who fall prey to these people on dating websites.

Nigeria is a really crazy place. I would have been of the opinion to just nuke the whole place and then keep the oil fields, but there are a lot of very good strongly Christian decent folks there surrounded by a lot of very evil people and very violent tribes / gangs. Perhaps just cut off all communication and transportation services in & out, then hand out truckloads of weapons at the local churches and tell them to get on with it.

 

[thaifighter]

While I would certainly agree that users that choose to use proxies should be permitted for reading and posting, should that be permitted on the PX?

If there's going to be a financial transaction, esp over a firearm, your privacy expectations are pretty much a wash anyway at least with regard to the person on the other side of the transaction and probably to the forum mgmt.

 

[Mike_Pancake]

This dude almost got me also. Told him i didnt want a SFP scope and then said, well i have a FFP scope that hell let go for the same price....gave him my email and same thing....money order only...almost....

 

[hic28]

After a certain threshold I require you to FaceTime and send me a photo of your drivers license. I regularly buy and sell 3-4K optics here. Haven’t been scammed yet. Had some people not want to send me their DL but that’s up to them.

 

[Lowlight]

Scammers are out there,

We do our level best to remove them as soon as possible. but we cannot stop all of them, as we are not paid to do a background check on every member who signs up. Current we do manually approve accounts after looking at the most basic information, but it is not always enough.

With more and more people using VPN services, we reject a majority of them, but that just leads to another layer of headaches as we will get emails complaining about why their account was rejected.

It's your job to protect yourself at all times, this not a for sale site, we do not charge you to use the PX, it's a free service in a section we do not monitor. We cannot monitor, it's too busy and there are too many transactions to watch without a dedicated team doing it.

if you want the site to be a Paid for PX, turn it into a Gunbroker deal, then it will cost you. But I don't see that happening, nobody is gonna want to pay me $100 a post in order to make it work out for us.

You are your best line of defense, do your homework, if it's too good to be true, it's a scam. Nobody is coming out of the gate posting at a big loss on anything. If you fall for it, that is on you. Pay Pal @Tucker301 some cash, he can do another layer of checks if he wants, but you need to do your due diligence on this stuff.

 

[Tucker301]

I don't want anyone's money, unless they want to give to one of our Good Guys With Guns projects, and I personally will help, as much as I can, anyone who asks.
Maybe I'll get a hoodie when they come out? But that's not why I do it.
I do it because I consider many good people here to be brothers and if I can help with the tools that I am given, and my limited knowledge of IT then I'll do that.
Just keep in mind that I am not omnipresent, so if you PM me a question the response may not be immediate.
Franks, right though. It's ultimately up to each member to due their own diligence. I'll help when I can.

 

[ironsight1000yard]

So if I pay money order to a US address I am a bit safer?

 

[Tucker301]

So if I pay money order to a US address I am a bit safer?

I ask for some document linking the name to the address. Electric bill, etc.
A driver's license on big ticket items. They can cover everything but the picture and name if they want.
I also will use the city or county GIS system and cross check home ownership.
Most people who own $4000 rifles typically own their homes.
None of it is foolproof, but a scammer typically ins't going to be bothered with too much effort or too many questions.

 

[LSUbeatUby40]

Maybe you were the first, and once you paid G&S he started only asking for money orders after. Probably was hoping you would pay F&F. Hope you get your money back.

Before we all get to into the weeds here on G&S vs F&F, I ask for F&F from buyers because I don't want to take the fee hit especially when I have agreed to a lesser price and am paying for shipping. I've also done the deal where I took less than advertised and used G&S, but I asked for an extra $100 on a sale to pay the shipping and insurance, then sent a copy of the receipt along with the additional change from the extra $100 back to the buyer. That way I as the buyer get my agreed price and the seller has coverage.

Just want to put that out there. Not all of us sellers are POSs looking to take your money. Also I suggest asking for buyer references on here. Contact those people and ask about buying/selling experiences with someone you are looking to buy/sell with.

 

[Glassaholic]

Wow, this has been eye opening. I have not been scammed as of yet, but glad I saw this to be more aware and more knowledgeable about how savvy these guys are getting. The Hide is awesome for offering the free classifieds, but as mentioned above we have to be aware of scammers and do our due diligence.

Mods - I think this should be a sticky on all the buy and sell forums with some of the above "tips and tricks" to help us identify scammers as the first post.

Thanks everyone for contributing

 

[Tucker301]

Asking the buyer to pay shipping and insurance is alright, but if the package gets damaged or stolen and you're the shipper, guess who's filing the claim?
Guess who's responsible when the case comes to me for arbitration?
Unless the buyer pays the carrier directly and sends you the preprinted shipping label, YOU are still on the hook for either delivering the goods as advertised or issuing a full refund. Any insurance settlement is yours, along with the missing or broken item if recovered. The buyer gets a refund and a net loss of zero.

I will pay your G&S fees if it's something that I feel is worth it. It's simple math on the buyer's end.
Let them decide.

 

[Tucker301]

Mods - I think this should be a sticky on all the buy and sell forums with some of the above "tips and tricks" to help us identify scammers as the first post.

Nobody reads the stickies. They jump on here and they start buying and selling because it's free and they get good deals. We've tried stickies before.
Hell, 70 percent have never read the rules.

 

[LSUbeatUby40]

Asking the buyer to pay shipping and insurance is alright, but if the package gets damaged or stolen and you're the shipper, guess who's filing the claim?
Guess who's responsible when the case comes to me for arbitration?
Unless the buyer pays the carrier directly and sends you the preprinted shipping label, YOU are still on the hook for either delivering the goods as advertised or issuing a full refund. Any insurance settlement is yours, along with the missing or broken item if recovered. The buyer gets a refund and a net loss of zero.

I will pay your G&S fees if it's something that I feel is worth it. It's simple math on the buyer's end.
Let them decide.

No one is arguing that point. I'm simply stating that I shouldn't be taking another monetary hit after agreeing to a lower price and paying for shipping. That and not all of us are low lifes. Simply trying to give the buyers some avenues for checking who they are dealing with.

And I agree with what you are saying.

 

[nn8734]

There are numerous open source intel resources/web sites on the net, which I use religiously to help verify sellers’ identities and spot potential scammers and bullshitters. Between using PayPal G/S (pay the 3.5% it’s worth it) and due diligence (enhanced due diligence if buying something for several thousand dollars) your risk at taking a loss is low.

 

[Threadcutter308]

I ask for some document linking the name to the address. Electric bill, etc.
A driver's license on big ticket items. They can cover everything but the picture and name if they want.
I also will use the city or county GIS system and cross check home ownership.
Most people who own $4000 rifles typically own their homes.
None of it is foolproof, but a scammer typically ins't going to be bothered with too much effort or too many questions.

Jeez............you guys have me scared now.........That's a healthy thing, I think

Never been burned, but have come close a few times years ago. Difference is that now, the levels of sophistication are much higher on the part of the scammers.

 

[nn8734]

While not foolproof, ask for a face time (or similar digital audio/video method) phone conversation with the seller, so he can show you the actual item for sale. This way you have eyes on it real time. Use a search/skip trace website to look up the cell phone and see who it comes back to and compare it to your seller/buyer info you already collected. I have done this for a couple buyer on here for high dollar scopes.

 

[just browsing]

Certainly not a fool-proof method, but unless there are other established members who are willing to vouch for/good guy posts, you can ask for a picture of the item you’re purchasing next to the seller’s ID.

 

[hjAICS300]

Seeing more and more of these scammers these days. I’m just curious if we can get a better feedback system? Like positive / negative feed back that stick to our user name ? So if someone’s bought something , they can put the iTrader feed back on? I know we are not a for sale site , but i don’t think our member would mind paying a yearly fee or something?

A small yearly fee would be something to deter these fraud and scammer too a scammer most likely they won’t pay by their own financial institution and will get caught quicker. ?

 

[Tucker301]

We've had scammers pay for quick access. When you're using stolen funds or someone else's credit card it's not much of a deterrent.

 

[Lowlight]

we ban people

A negative feedback for this is a waste of time

Not a for sale site if you want the section to be pay to play I will add it

$25 per post with one item per post only I can lock the whole section up in minutes

Plus stop getting everyone else to do your homework for you, manage your own transaction , now there is novel idea