@C_Does thanks for the response. Really value your opinion having tested both. I think for the money the Helos is an absolute great scope. In practical use the reticle is great. But when trying to punch those tiny little groups I can tell the center dot is hindering me. When I dial down 2mil and then use the cross mark at 2mils down I shoot tighter groups. Also I feel the clarity is lacking some at 12x. But again for the price it’s been great. Now I gotta decide if dropping the coin on the Atacr is worth it for what I do.