Rifle Scopes Nightforce ATACR 5-25x56 or S&B PMii 5-25x56.
- Thread starter Bbeard
- Start date
There is one called a Unicorn really hard to find, but it’s the absolute best scope in the universe.
Been here a month and I can tell you that around here they all like those two plus: Kahles 525, Minox ZP5 , Tangent Theta, and Steiner M. It is a matter of preference and reticle choice. Everyone has their favorite but ultimately one decides what suites them best.
I own several scopes made by both manufacturers. Like others have posted here, when you decide to cross into the upper echelon of precision rifle glass, it becomes a matter of preference rather than “the best.”
Between the S&B PMII 5-25 F1 and the NF ATACR 5-25 F1 I see it this way:
Optical clarity goes to S&B. Not by much but I find that Schmidt has a slight advantage over NF in the glass quality and usefulness across all levels of magnification.
Illumination hands down goes to NF. This is the only area where I feel S&B doesn’t doesn’t bring their “A” game and every NF I own has bright, usable illumination in both day and night applications. Although, I just picked up the S&B LRR-Mil reticle and the illumination is top notch. I think Schmidt is working on better ways to illuminate their reticles and we’ll see some innovation from them shortly.
Parallax goes to S&B. Especially at 0-200 and 800+ ranges, S&B is dead on with parallax adjustment. In between those ranges is a toss up.
Zero stop function goes to S&B. Again this is user preference but Schmidt scopes make it simpler to set zero. Simply loosen the 2 2mm hex screws on the windage and elevation turrets, dial back to zero, and retighten. NF zero stop isn’t difficult to set, again a purely subjective viewpoint.
Turret design and function, S&B. The MTC turrets are on a level above every other scope manufacturer on the market. Every click is crisp, sharp, and distinct. The thud every full mil is a genius design and allows the user to manipulate dope settings without actually looking at the turret.
My favorite reticle on the market on the NF Mil-C. I believe hands down it’s the most versatile reticle on the market for those who choose to dial every adjustment and it works in both long range and tactical shooting scenarios.
Lastly, for those that run scope caps, the fact that the entire ocular lens on NF scopes rotates when making a magnification adjustment can be a pain in the ass. I find it becomes one more thing that I have to worry about when I’m trying to take a well aimed shot. The cap always seems to get in the way of bolt manipulation, especially when trying to engage multiple targets at different distances when you’re going back and forth between higher and lower magnification settings.
Overall, my vote goes to S&B. I own both and if it came down to getting rid of the Schmidts or the NF’s, I’d keep the Schmidts. If you’re going to invest the $ in a tier 1 precision rifle scope, Schmidt doesn’t disappoint.
Between the S&B PMII 5-25 F1 and the NF ATACR 5-25 F1 I see it this way:
Optical clarity goes to S&B. Not by much but I find that Schmidt has a slight advantage over NF in the glass quality and usefulness across all levels of magnification.
Illumination hands down goes to NF. This is the only area where I feel S&B doesn’t doesn’t bring their “A” game and every NF I own has bright, usable illumination in both day and night applications. Although, I just picked up the S&B LRR-Mil reticle and the illumination is top notch. I think Schmidt is working on better ways to illuminate their reticles and we’ll see some innovation from them shortly.
Parallax goes to S&B. Especially at 0-200 and 800+ ranges, S&B is dead on with parallax adjustment. In between those ranges is a toss up.
Zero stop function goes to S&B. Again this is user preference but Schmidt scopes make it simpler to set zero. Simply loosen the 2 2mm hex screws on the windage and elevation turrets, dial back to zero, and retighten. NF zero stop isn’t difficult to set, again a purely subjective viewpoint.
Turret design and function, S&B. The MTC turrets are on a level above every other scope manufacturer on the market. Every click is crisp, sharp, and distinct. The thud every full mil is a genius design and allows the user to manipulate dope settings without actually looking at the turret.
My favorite reticle on the market on the NF Mil-C. I believe hands down it’s the most versatile reticle on the market for those who choose to dial every adjustment and it works in both long range and tactical shooting scenarios.
Lastly, for those that run scope caps, the fact that the entire ocular lens on NF scopes rotates when making a magnification adjustment can be a pain in the ass. I find it becomes one more thing that I have to worry about when I’m trying to take a well aimed shot. The cap always seems to get in the way of bolt manipulation, especially when trying to engage multiple targets at different distances when you’re going back and forth between higher and lower magnification settings.
Overall, my vote goes to S&B. I own both and if it came down to getting rid of the Schmidts or the NF’s, I’d keep the Schmidts. If you’re going to invest the $ in a tier 1 precision rifle scope, Schmidt doesn’t disappoint.
In my book durability, especially for a hunting scope is extremely important! The NF torture tests are available to see on their site or utube or Vimeo. Have not seen S&B try this.
Check all the quality optics in your price range and pick the reticle that best suits your needs.
Most other things you can learn to live with. But you’ll hate staring at something you don’t like.
Most other things you can learn to live with. But you’ll hate staring at something you don’t like.
Hard choice, depends on what the exact application is, I suppose. Both of those scopes are overkill for hunting for me, but I'm only taking animals around 300yds or less, since I believe it's more sporting and thrilling that way, and those are the general distances available to me at my location. So I would have a few questions about what settings and scenarios you would be engaging targets in. I wouldn't pay$3-4k for glass unless only engaging targets over 1000yds. I can shoot out to 600yds all day with 10-20x scopes in the $1,000-$1,500 range just fine. Best wishes. T
I own a SB PM II and have used a Nightforce ATACR many times. Both are great scopes and you can't go wrong with either. I encourage you to look at the Valdada Recon G2 4.8-30x56. I have been torturing mine for a couple of months. It has become my favorite scope for Tactical Competitions/Long Range shooting. I like it much better than my SB PM II, Razor Gen II, USO B25, Leopold Mark r and any of my Bushnell scopes. I find the turrets on the Recon G2 to be easier to see than the PM II when adjusting them under time pressure or poor light. The glass is amazing too. I sure you will love which ever you purchase.
I think you need to spend a few hours with Mr Google.
'Best' scope has different meanings for different uses, budgets, people etc.
Long range target and hunting can have similar requirements but also totally different requirements depending on intended usage.
Primarily you need to decide on a budget and what the actual intended use will be, second to that a size/weight limit.
There is a lot of info out there, lots of good info on this forum but many other forums and articles. Way more information that you can get from a single post here asking about the best scope.
'Best' scope has different meanings for different uses, budgets, people etc.
Long range target and hunting can have similar requirements but also totally different requirements depending on intended usage.
Primarily you need to decide on a budget and what the actual intended use will be, second to that a size/weight limit.
There is a lot of info out there, lots of good info on this forum but many other forums and articles. Way more information that you can get from a single post here asking about the best scope.
Recently switched from a PMII 3-20(H2CMR) to an ATACR 7-35(Mil C) and these are my observations so far.
Turrets: I think the NF is the winner here. Nicer markings, more space in between marks/clicks, as to the tactile feel, both are very tactile but it’s easier to dial on the NF because the aforementioned reasons. Capped windage is very nice since I just hold for wind. The NF is dead simple and I’ve come to prefer it that way. The only thing that would make them better is if they had the zerostop/locking mechanism from the 4-16 ATACR. The turrets on the PMII are crowded, the locking rings on them were kind of tough to unlock if you’re not shooting upright. The MTC also caused me to overdial every single time I hit one of the detents, didn’t matter how carefully I did it either. I found myself fighting my turrets. I’ve come to dislike the MTC quite a bit.
Parallax: Schmidt is dead on with the markings. The NF seems to be a smidgen off if I go based on the markings. Having really high mag can really help getting your parallax perfectly set, though.
Glass: Subjective but the Schmidt is a touch better when set at the same mag.
Reliability/Durability/tracking: Both are among the most proven scopes so I seriously doubt you’ll have an issue with either scope in this regard.
General use: The PMII 5-25 tunnels from 5-7x. My 7-35 tunnels from 7-8x. AFAIK the 5-25 ATACR does not do this(I stand corrected, it does). The whole ocular on the NF moves when you go through the mag range and moves your scope caps around. I could see how this can annoy some people. Reticle is usable throughout the entire zoom range on the NF. I couldn’t use the reticle on my 3-20 until I was at 6x.
Illumination: Both suck in the bright FL sun.
I’m sure I’m missing some but those are the things I noticed within the first couple uses of my NF.
Turrets: I think the NF is the winner here. Nicer markings, more space in between marks/clicks, as to the tactile feel, both are very tactile but it’s easier to dial on the NF because the aforementioned reasons. Capped windage is very nice since I just hold for wind. The NF is dead simple and I’ve come to prefer it that way. The only thing that would make them better is if they had the zerostop/locking mechanism from the 4-16 ATACR. The turrets on the PMII are crowded, the locking rings on them were kind of tough to unlock if you’re not shooting upright. The MTC also caused me to overdial every single time I hit one of the detents, didn’t matter how carefully I did it either. I found myself fighting my turrets. I’ve come to dislike the MTC quite a bit.
Parallax: Schmidt is dead on with the markings. The NF seems to be a smidgen off if I go based on the markings. Having really high mag can really help getting your parallax perfectly set, though.
Glass: Subjective but the Schmidt is a touch better when set at the same mag.
Reliability/Durability/tracking: Both are among the most proven scopes so I seriously doubt you’ll have an issue with either scope in this regard.
General use: The PMII 5-25 tunnels from 5-7x. My 7-35 tunnels from 7-8x. AFAIK the 5-25 ATACR does not do this(I stand corrected, it does). The whole ocular on the NF moves when you go through the mag range and moves your scope caps around. I could see how this can annoy some people. Reticle is usable throughout the entire zoom range on the NF. I couldn’t use the reticle on my 3-20 until I was at 6x.
Illumination: Both suck in the bright FL sun.
I’m sure I’m missing some but those are the things I noticed within the first couple uses of my NF.
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