Rifle Scopes Nightforce dilema for long range

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RedRaider271

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Minuteman
Mar 12, 2010
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DFW Texas
#1
I know this has been covered 1000 times, but basically after a 8 months of starring at my rifle in the closet it is time to buy my scope... I have officially decided to try Nightforce but I cannot make a decision on what size scope..

I will be shooting 5R in 308, my goal is distance out to 1000yrds for competitions, hunting, all around applications.. I was going to buy the F1 first focal 3-15 but everyone shooting distance tells me to go ahead an get the 5.5-22.

My question is should I get the bigger scope and just learn using the SFP, or would I be better off giving up magnification to have FFP in Nightforce. I originally was looking to run a 6.5-20 Leupold Mark 4 bc I had one years ago,now I want to try nightforce but can't figure out what is better decision. I have heard great things about many other scopes but I am only considering Nightforce or Leupold in my price point. I appreciate any guidance on this
 
#2
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

If ranging is critical get the F1, if you can get by with a range finder / shoot square ranges then the 5.5-22 would be great.
 
#3
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

I have a 3.5-15x on my 5r without the FFP. I love it and have got on target out to a 1000.

You just have to decide if you "need" FFP. I found out that I didnt.
 
#6
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

For me the primary use of a mil or MOA reticle is for elevation adjustments and wind adjustments. Especially wind. I use a SFP Nightforce at max power almost all the time. Only time I would need FFP and adjusting power a lot is when I go prairie dog hunting. Then I use my FFP IOR scope.
 
#8
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

I used a NF SFP 3-15x50mm on this 308.
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Mike CST

 
#9
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

I have a 5-25 S&B PMII Actually I even bought the thing from Mike in the post above me. I find that at ranges 300 Yards and closer I like to use the rifle scope as a spotter and I can spot 30 cal holes with it. The only time I use 25X is when I'm looking to shoot for small groups or when I want to use it to replace a spotting scope. I find that at 25X when shooting in the field its too easy to get lost or have a hard time finding your target because your FOV is so small. I find that I use the scope from 7X to about 17x most of the time. I do feel that FFP is very important. It is imperative in my opinion that you can always trust your reticle no matter what. It not only allows you to measure a miss and correct for it on the turrets very quickly it also has helped me learn to read wind better. Would annoy the hell out of me to have to change power to measure something and then adjust it again to get back to where I was. I've also been working on using holds for all shots and pretty much leaving the dials alone. This wouldn't work unless you had FFP. So my recommendation (if I must stay within your limitations) would be the NF 3.5-15F1. However... I'm a big fan of the G2 reticle that Busnell has started using that they came up with from GAP. Here is a video that is worth a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B2_RFmfcws

It not only gives you FFP it also gives you a great reticle and a bit of extra cash in your pocket compared to the NXS. I'm not a fan of only 5 mil per revolution but I think they have a new version that has 10 mil per turn. My PMII is 15 mil per turn with my 175grain SMK load I need 12.8 turns to get to 1K yards so I rarely get to that second turn on my scope. The NXS (and I belive the new HDMRs) are both 10 mil per turn so you're going to be good to around 850 yards with a single turn. This is important because with the HDMR a zero stop is not an option. With the Nightforce zero stop is an option.

Just food for thought.

When the time comes to make your jump give Mike's web site a look. He's taken really good care of me in the past and that deserves mention.
 
#10
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

It would be best to figure out what you are going to be doing most of the time with this rifle before you make this investment. You can't really expect one scope to be all that good for hunting/tactical/benchrest/whatever. Nightforce makes a scope for whatever it is you want to do, but what is it that you want to do?
 
#11
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

i have NF NXS 5.5-22X50 scopes on most of my rifles where the upper limit I shoot is 600 yards. But my rifles that I shoot over 600 yards I put NF NXS 8-32X56 scopes with an 18 moa and a 20 moa mount. With my eyes I find I need the increased magnification, Younger eyes may be able to use the 5.5-22 or the 3-15 scopes but not with my eyes. I think the scope power requirement is up to the individual shooter. In my case better to have the increased power if I find I need it.
 
#13
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

I have a NF 5.5-22X and you range targets on 22X and 99% of my shots are at 22X. The scope is good enough that your targets are always clear at 22X you never have to back it off to get a good picture in the scope... IMO that is why you backoff the mag is so that you can see your target better. not an issue with a NF.
 
#14
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

The key here and the reason why you are having problem deciding is you have not prioritized what is most important to you.

If distance shooting is most important and especially if you need absolute accuracy, then magnification would be most important - go SFP.

If you will be mostly shooting tactical and need to be able to range at any power, the go FFP.

Remember, you can still range with SFP at full power and for that matter ½ power if you remember to make the adjustment. Remember also even with a FFP with high mag, the reticle will become coarse at high mag.
 
#16
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

Why not consider a Razor 5-20x50, FFP, it's all the scope you'll ever need, I'm not knocking NF, but with the Razor you get all the features you need and want, an over the top warranty.
 
#17
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

I run the 3.5-15 F1 on my 18in .308. Hitting 12in steel at 1000yds is not a problem. Unless you are trying to print pretty little groups, you don't need huge magnification. Zooming in too much is a mistake that many regularly make. It is much easier to read wind in a variety of locations and observe the location of any miss when you have a wider field of view. It is quite easy to center the crosshair on a 12in plate at 1000 yds with even a 10X scope without the stadia lines obscuring the target.

Now, on FFP, ranging is much simpler with the FFP reticle. If you go SFP, you have know the relative sizes of the stadia marks at every magnification setting or you have to use max magnification to keep the numbers consistent. FFP gives you the same relative size all the way through the zoom range. One set of numbers to learn.

Also, being able to dial down to 3.5 power is nice in the event that you had to engage a close target. At 5.5X, you might have trouble finding the target through the reticle if it's close.
 
#18
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

I like the 5.5 x 22. I use it at 11x out to 1000. Range with it at 11x halving the moa. Nice to have the extra power when I need it for better detail.
 
#19
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It isn't just ranging...

Accurate holds matter more. </div></div>

This. I dont have a NF, but on my Vortex, I usually shoot at 18x for several reasons. I will dial up to 24x occasionally as a spotter, but don't shoot at that magnification. FFP is great in this application as I do not have to calculate what my holds are at 18x.
 
#20
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

sorry so long for reply...busy week

My goal is to get started in long range rifle competition, I am a 3 gunner but always love the rifles first. So I am building my 308. I ultimately want to shoot 1000yrds. I haven't had time to study competitions, but I have heard many recommend the F1 for the up close and long range targets... and I hear the argument for magnification, so I guess that's why I am here with a dilemma...

I have always used leupolds since I was young, they are on all my other guns...I had a mark 4 years ago and liked it. So this is new territory as I am going to take some training to learn better fundamentals..ranging etc. I would like to buy a good scope more geared to competition and long range hunting even though hunting isn't so much of an issue.

after all the responses... can someone elighten me on the sniper type competitions? Would the F1 be the best option, is it true they may come out with FFP 5.5-22?? Should I wait??
 
#21
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Delta271</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sorry so long for reply...busy week

My goal is to get started in long range rifle competition, I am a 3 gunner but always love the rifles first. So I am building my 308. I ultimately want to shoot 1000yrds. I haven't had time to study competitions, but I have heard many recommend the F1 for the up close and long range targets... and I hear the argument for magnification, so I guess that's why I am here with a dilemma...

I have always used leupolds since I was young, they are on all my other guns...I had a mark 4 years ago and liked it. So this is new territory as I am going to take some training to learn better fundamentals..ranging etc. I would like to buy a good scope more geared to competition and long range hunting even though hunting isn't so much of an issue.

after all the responses... can someone elighten me on the sniper type competitions? Would the F1 be the best option, is it true they may come out with FFP 5.5-22?? Should I wait??</div></div>


Try the SWFA 5-20 FFP
 
#22
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Delta271</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sorry so long for reply...busy week

My goal is to get started in long range rifle competition, I am a 3 gunner but always love the rifles first. So I am building my 308. I ultimately want to shoot 1000yrds. I haven't had time to study competitions, but I have heard many recommend the F1 for the up close and long range targets... and I hear the argument for magnification, so I guess that's why I am here with a dilemma...

I have always used leupolds since I was young, they are on all my other guns...I had a mark 4 years ago and liked it. So this is new territory as I am going to take some training to learn better fundamentals..ranging etc. I would like to buy a good scope more geared to competition and long range hunting even though hunting isn't so much of an issue.

after all the responses... can someone elighten me on the sniper type competitions? Would the F1 be the best option, is it true they may come out with FFP 5.5-22?? Should I wait?? </div></div>

More specific details about the type of competition you're thinking about would be helpful info to get the best info from responders. For example, if you're thinking F-Class versus Tactical comps, my recommendation would be quite different. For F-Class, an 8-32x56 or 12-42x56 SFP scope with 1/8th MOA clicks would be your best bet. For reticles, NP-2DD (if you like a dot reticle), NP-R1, or NP-R2. You want more than 22X high end mag for LR F-Class comps IMO, and the FFP reticle is too thick for that type of shooting (and FFP is unnecessary for F-Class anyhow).

For tactical comps, the NF F1 would be the better choice, although the 5.5-22 SFP would probably do the job if you absolutely had to go that route. However, accurately ranging with the SFP scope is going to be much more challenging than the F1 unless it's set on 22X.
 
#23
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

If you want to shoot "tactical" style matches FFP is critical. There are matches that will have mover stages I would never try to shoot a mover with a scope dialed up to 22x I have a 5x25 schmidt and bender and on movers I rarely have it above 8x. I also rarely have it above 16x under any circumstances unless I am trying to spot with it. The most important reason to have FFP is the is the correct holdovers on any mag setting. I guarentee that at some point you will have it off and miss a holdover due to the mag not being set where you thought it was.

I would go with the NF F1 or the Vortex viper HD either one will be much more useful than the SFP NXS.
 
#24
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

I had the 22X NXS and sold it to get the 15X FFP and I couldn't be happier. I really thought the mirage was terrible at 22X. In timed events such as tactical matches, I feel that no good can come from touching the knob on the right side of the scope. I sure as hell don't want to shoot it at 11X and try to remember if it was half the hold, or twice. Especially under the clock. That's just one more thing to screw up. I have no problem shooting at targets at 1000 yards on 15X.

In regards to the FFP coming out in 22X, I've been hearing that it's coming out at Shot Show for three or four years now. But, it's in January, so it might not be a bad idea to wait. I don't think the 15X will leave you wanting for much.
 
#25
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not consider a Razor 5-20x50, FFP, it's all the scope you'll ever need, I'm not knocking NF, but with the Razor you get all the features you need and want, an over the top warranty. </div></div>



Is the Razor 5-20x50, FFP currently offered with ZS ?
 
#26
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trooper #40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Is the Razor 5-20x50, FFP currently offered with ZS ? </div></div>

Yes
 
#27
Re: Nightforce dilema for long range

thanks for all of your help and input, to be more specific I will be shooting more tactical style matches, probably no F class. I have decided to wait for the shot show just in case..lol even though I probably couldn't afford what the 5-25ffp would cost if it comes out... unless it does come out I am going to go ahead and start with the F1, is sounds like my best overall option to get started with, and I still have a ton to learn as I am new to these types of comps... my wife is going to kill me!! first 3 gun, now this hahaha appreciate all of your feedback
 
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