Rifle Scopes Nightforce or Leupold

J

jgt24

Private
Minuteman
Jun 29, 2009
6
0
49
Minnesota
#1
I know the answer to this already (no wise cracks please), but my main question isn't just which one do you think is the best but rather it comes down to money. I work for a law enforcement agency and am on the sniper unit of our SWAT team. if I could i'd probably go with S&B or USO and not even ask this question. My problem is that I am stuck by cost and what my agency will allow me to spend. I also don't have the option of spending any of my own money to upgrade. my price limit is 1785 but that includes tax.

I don't need magnification to be all that high but i'd for sure like it to be at least 14 if not closer to 20. Illuminated Reticle and a tactical style retical is also a must. I can get a Leupold 6.5-20x50 for about $1400-$1500. I can go to an NF in a 3.5-15X50 or 56 for about $1500 plus tax and I may be able to get the NF 5.5-22X50 or 56 for under the 1785 but i'll be cutting it close. I have no room over the 1785 either by the way.

I really with I could go with USO and can get one without the Ill Reticle for about 1720 before tax which would still put me over. I've been hearing some about Leupold's quality going down. I've never looked through USO, NF, or S&B so I can't comment on the differences between them but from what I've heard there are some obvious differences, especially with the USO and S&B compared to others. I can't afford a USO or S&B. I wish I could but that's life. So, with all that being said, I'm hoping to get some thoughts on the matter based on experience. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
 
#2
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

Call Nightforce and last I knew they gave LE discounts. Get the 5.5-22x50 with reticle of your choice and knobs to match and you will be all set.
 
#3
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

I would go with the Nightforce if you could get what you wanted in your budget. I've looked and shot through numerous Leupolds, while some were extremely clear other seemed to have a "haze" to them. I'm currently using a NXS 12-42x56 and love it. I know that would be a little much for what you need, but if you could get the 5.5-22 I bet you wouldn't be disappointed.
 
#5
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

Email John at US Optics. I'm willing to bet he can probably get you a whole lot closer than you think
wink.gif
.

[email protected]

Cheers,

Doc
 
#6
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

In '07 I picked a 3.5-15x56mm NXS w/NP-R1 for about 1450 OTD. I'm sure if you look around you can find the same deal. Also, check the classifieds here. I sold that same scope in like-new condition last month for a few hundred less than what I paid.
 
#7
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

I would not go with a Leupold.

For the $$$ there are better brands out there.

Send e-mails to Premier, USO, NF, S&B USA and see what you can find out about LE / Mil discounts.

You never know without asking.

John
 
#9
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I picked up a NF 5.5-22x50 MD with zero stop and rings last year for $1350.00

Look around dude. </div></div>

NF 3.5x15 NXS NIB for $1100
 
#13
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why the concern about tax?

LE agencies are tax exempt. </div></div>

+1. I've spent a good part of my career in local government. We were always tax exempt.
 
#14
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

If you decide to go with Leupy, they will serve you well. Scott can get you into a very nice Leupy MKIV 4.5-14x50 illuminated TMR for a lot less than a comparable NF. I have NF, S&B, USO and have owned Premier and the Leupy I mentioned. They are all awesome and will serve you well. The leupy is half the cost or less than the others.

The Leupy is a great scope for $1K. Their CS is excellent and if you buy from Scott, their CS is irrelevant. If on a budget, I dont think there is a better buy. But, that is a very subjective statement. Also, it is currently very in vogue to bash Leupy. Take it for what its worth. They serve our military. I know they may not be the latest/greatest, but they work, and at a good price.
 
#16
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

Only have a question to answer this one, How come a few years ago Nightforce was much higher than Leupold, now they have come down to about the same. I can tell you why, Leupold is better. The US uses Leupold not Nightforce. I've had the best of both and I like my Mark 4
 
#17
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

I don't know if Leupold is "better" but for a couple of extra bucks you have a larger assortment of options with Nightforce. I had both and I liked my Leupold but I just recently sold it to get another Nightforce with matching reticle and turrets.
 
#19
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

I would avoid Leupold of all the choices. Leupold has not done anything to improve their products and the reliability, durability has degraded drastically over the years and they are unreliable.
 
#20
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Benchshoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only have a question to answer this one, How come a few years ago Nightforce was much higher than Leupold, now they have come down to about the same. I can tell you why, Leupold is better. The US uses Leupold not Nightforce. I've had the best of both and I like my Mark 4</div></div>

That's funny. Yes there is less of a price gap between the scopes but you have to look at the the reason. It is not because Nightforce has gone down on their prices as they have stayed failry steady. It is because LEUPOLD HAS GONE UP! Offering the same LRT scopes and calling them "Mark 4s" and charging you more.

And so you know the US Military uses plenty of Nightforce scopes.
 
#22
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

The simple fact of the matter is there are much better options out there these days. Back in the day Leupold was almost the popular most reliable optic out there.

Over the last 10+ years they have failed to adapt and grow with what shooters want and need and they have raised prices and let the quality slip.

I will spend my money else where.
 
#23
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

I use for the most part a MARK IV 8.5 x 25 x 50, I have also owned a 5.5-22 x 50 NXS. First let's look at price. The Mark IV about 1400 the NF 1800. Difference of 400 bucks. Performance eye relief 3.7 on both. But, in my estimation, the Mark IV was superior in clarity at long range. Shorter distance say 200 yards about the same. But there is no way that a less powerful NXS is worth more than a Mark IV.
 
#24
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOMAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The simple fact of the matter is there are much better options out there these days. Back in the day Leupold was almost the popular most reliable optic out there.

Over the last 10+ years they have failed to adapt and grow with what shooters want and need and they have raised prices and let the quality slip.

I will spend my money else where. </div></div>

Yeah and you'll spend more for a cheaper scope
 
#25
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Crazy Dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the FCSA .50 BMG Fifty Club Shoot will show in their matches about 90% uses NF scopes on their big fiftys. Must be a reason. The club is out of Monre,utah. </div></div>

I don't think that is true. I have seen many use both and more than not seen US Optics used. I will buy US Optics next because I believe them to be superior to the MAKR IV or the NF. At the time I didn't have a extra grand for a scope.
 
#26
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

IMMO, Nightforce offers optics at least comparable to Leupold with reticle choices superior to Leupolds, and 0.1 mil adjustments that Leupold still doesn't offer.

At Nomad said, Leupold is just behind the curve. For a long time, Nightforce was too, waiting until this year to offer FFP reticles. But Nightforce has caught up, and Leupold has not.

But we're all free to spend our money as we wish. I have scopes from both, although the Leupolds I have were all modified by Premier Reticles.
 
#27
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

Plus 1 for contacting Premier and USO on a price discount. The NF is imho a sturdier scope for LE use than the Leupold. Unless you purchase in person, there is no tax issue, and your agency is exempt anyway.
 
#28
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

Thanks for the replies/opinions. As for the tax issue...that's what i was told. I don't know if we're exempt or not, but I don't do the ordering, purchasing, or budget requests for our department. That's what I was told by the person on our department that does. I don't know that the "something really smells..." comment was about. anyways, I emailed Doc at USO. I will also try and contact Scott at Leupold as someone else suggested.

Right now i have an ITT scope on my rifle and I don't like it. It is a 3.5-10 and doesn't have an illuminated reticle. I want Illuminated reticle and would like more magnification. I don't know where most of you are all from, but in Minnesota here the state government is taking a lot of money away from the local governments to make up for a 6 plus billion dollar deficit. to be honest, I'm surprised I'm able to spend 1785 the way it is.

One more question...What exactly does the zero stop do on the NF scopes? What are the advantages?
 
#29
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

You should get ahold of NF Optics-Bill here on the site. It's Bill Bracken and he is a Account Rep for Nightforce and he can help you out as far as sales. Here's a link to his profile NF Optics-Bill Profile
 
#31
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you decide to go with Leupy, they will serve you well. Scott can get you into a very nice Leupy MKIV 4.5-14x50 illuminated TMR for a lot less than a comparable NF. I have NF, S&B, USO and have owned Premier and the Leupy I mentioned. They are all awesome and will serve you well. The leupy is half the cost or less than the others.

The Leupy is a great scope for $1K. Their CS is excellent and if you buy from Scott, their CS is irrelevant. If on a budget, I dont think there is a better buy. But, that is a very subjective statement. Also, it is currently very in vogue to bash Leupy. Take it for what its worth. They serve our military. I know they may not be the latest/greatest, but they work, and at a good price. </div></div>
Huge +1 with everything said above. I really like my MK4 and found it NIB for just over $1k.
 
#34
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

If you plan on doing any type of milling with your scope, for range estimation, you would be better off with the 5.5-15x50 or 56 NSX. The ranges that most LEO are using thier scopes for, would make the higher magnification useless.

My 5.5-15x56 MLR reticle and .1 MRAD turts is more than enough for 1000 yard shooting. If milling accurately at 22x most things are going to be unmillable because of the size and ranges because of the high magnification, because it is not a First focal plane reticle, its only accurate at the highest magnification. The FFP scope is way out of that price range, mine also
grin.gif
.

My NSX came from Alex at Euro Optics for $1550 out the door, no tax because of out of state sales, that nips that problem right in the bud.

LEO doesnt need super high magnification, because most SWAT are not engaging targets past 1000 yards, so lets be realistic.

BTW, all NF NSX models are illuminated.
 
#35
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
LEO doesnt need super high magnification, because most SWAT are not engaging targets past 1000 yards, so lets be realistic.
</div></div>

I hope you meant 100 yards.
laugh.gif


Cheers,

Doc
 
#36
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

I'll never buy another Leupold scope again. They don't always track well, heat mirage shows up quicker than the NXS or IOR scopes, the ill. switch suck's, and at least a 1/3rd of all the Mark 4's I have bought have had canted retical's!

Dollar for dollar the best tactical scopes are NXS & IOR, Ziess Conquest are also very good for the money, for some catagories.
IOR has the best glass, by far, very clear day or night. NF is very rugged and accurate and both offer great retical's. IOR offer's some of the best config's for AR type rifles and alike, ie: 1.5-8x, 2-12x, and the new 1 & 4x. They both offer good long range rifle scopes, 3-15x, 5.5-22x, and IOR's 3-18x is a great combo. Of course if money is no object, USO & S&B are outstanding scope's. However, IOR's glass is very close to their's for between 1/2 & 2/3 the price. Glass is one of those thing's that you have to spend alot more money to get a little better performance. (Sometimes you don't even get that.)


 
#38
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmachine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Dollar for dollar the best tactical scopes are NXS & IOR, </div></div>

Batting .500 with that statement, IMHO.
 
#39
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

I was in the same situation half a year ago. Now that I bought a NF I will never look back. I have a neighbor who shoots for the SWAT sniper team and competes with the highest of military/LE snipers and ranks high among them. He uses a M3 and says he loves it, but says that the NF is better quality and a better overall built scope. Buy what you think, and have fun with it.
 
#40
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

you may need to check with your dept. for policy that is written regarding the optic you are supposed to purchase

and since you are LE , you would need LESS power and NOT more -

2.5-10x36 nightforce

or

2.5-8x36 leupold

think of your mission , as a LE sniper - what will you be doing behind the long gun ?

covering an entry team ?
taking a shot on a call out, across the street from the suspect's house so, a 30 yard shot . . .

pulling up at a felony stop or car chase that's gone bad and taking a shot ?

or a protacted call out, you are on the gun watching the perp , lets say at 15x or more, for ID purposes
and he moves ? if your close in range to them , you stand a good chance of losing him in your reticle ,

running with it ? and then taking a shot ( bigger magnification is going to make that a not so fun shot to make )

less is better and field of view is critical for LE

just my thoughts -

and you can still shoot , long range 350 plus with a 10x, heck my wife shot a F-class match with my 3.5-10x40 m3 Leupy, set on 3.5x by accident , she still scored a 190x

sounds like you have one shot to get it right , kinda deal , think it through

talk to the folks already mentioned , at USO or Bill at NightForce





 
#41
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

I love this topic every time i see it. Another thing i love is just because the military uses it doesnt mean its the best. IT just means that they were the lowest bidder. how bout Drangonskin vs. interceptor? Get the nightforce there badass have good glass and matching reticles and turrets plus tons of options down the road to upgrade to.
 
#42
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

I'm not in Law enforcment, but here's my 2 cents worth. I have a 3.5-15x50 Nightforce NXS with Mil Mil turrets, MLR ret. and zero stops on my Armalite AR-10t. In my opinon, Go with the Nightforce. I would probably choose a the 1.5-10x. In most casses your probably not going to shoot over 200 yrds anyway. What's the longest distants a sniper in your department has taken? You might be surprised that most Law enforcment snipers don't take very long shots all that much. A 10x scope will get you to 500 yrds easy, probably more like 800. And you should be able to find a nice NF 1.5-10 for around 1,100. I think one sold here just a week or so ago for that. If someone was depending on me, I'd want the best stuff money could buy on my rifle.
 
#43
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

To the poster, if you wouldn't have brought up glass I would have said if price is simular go NF. But you ask about glass. I can tell you they are so close on average it could go either way. I have yet to have a single time if I could not see a target with a Leupy, that a NF done me any better. They are neither one miracle workers. If price is close I would do the NF because IMO its one of the few scopes that I buy that I actually feel I got my moneys worth. That said the 3.5x10x40 Leupy is nice as is the 6.5x20.
 
#44
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: missed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another thing i love is just because the military uses it doesnt mean its the best. IT just means that they were the lowest bidder. how bout Drangonskin vs. interceptor? </div></div>

This is an oft repeated and untrue internet myth. What it should say is <span style="font-weight: bold">lowest bidder who can meet the minimum solicitation requirements</span>.

The dragonskin was too heavy, had voids, and had serious failures when it was tested and it was even decertified as Lvl3 protection. In my opinion the whole fiasco was a big liberal news scam to make the public think that our DoD under the Bush administration was screwing over our troops.

FWIW, the military uses Nightforce F1 scopes on all of their new Mk13 Mod5 sniper rifles (.300win M24 replacement) so it looks like leupold may be on its way out.
 
#45
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

To the OP:

Don't limit yourself to a lower powered scope only because the theory that an LE sniper most likely won't make a shot over 100 yards. I am LE in a rural area with a couple of medium sized cities. On one deployment (high risk warrant service for homicide suspect) at an apartment complex I was set up 220+ yards away. I had to stay out of the apartment complex so my hide was on top of a grocery store. There was a drainage pond basin between the grocery store and the apartment.

Also, look around you AO and I'm sure you will find areas where you cannot be within 100 yards safely. My theory is to train for long distance (800-1000 yards) and the average shot (100 yards) will be a cake walk.

FWIW, If I was limited to one rifle and one optic, it would be a .308 with an optic in the 4-16 power range. The NXS 3.5-15 is an excellent optic. I have also owned a Leupold 4.5-14 and in my opinion the NXS is far superior.
 
#47
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

Thanks for all the input. I want to add that for the most part, no, a sniper for any LE agency is most likely not going to be taking a shot probably any further than about 50 yards. in fact, i believe the longest ever sniper shooting was something like 180something yards. however, i have been set up in positions anywhere from 25 yards to 250 yards and it could be very possible to be set up further. our SWAT team is stationed out of a city of a little more than 100,000 people, however our unit also covers the entire county which includes many rural areas. so depending on the layout of a property we could be several hundred yards away. with that being said, i agree that if we were only deployed and set up at a couple hundred yards or less, yes, a 10x scope would be more than enough, however having the option of at least a 14 power and maybe even up to a 22 would be very beneficial for a just in case scenario. that's the benefit, IMO, that comes from being able to turn down to 3.5, 4, or 5.5. Just because I can zoom in to 22x doesn't mean i keep it at that all the time.

I appreciate all of the opinions. i know some posts there are people that are unhappy with "opinions" and only want facts. well, opinions come from experiences and i appreciate them. thanks.
 
#48
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

The longest L.E. sniper shot I know of was over 500 yards, in West Virginia in the last couple of years by a W.V. state trooper.

Most L.E. shots are at relatively short range. However, bear in mind that airports have long open areas.

A prudent marksman will train for the shots he <span style="font-style: italic">might</span> have to make, not just the ones which have the highest probabilities.
 
#49
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The longest L.E. sniper shot I know of was over 500 yards, in West Virginia in the last couple of years by a W.V. state trooper.

Most L.E. shots are at relatively short range. However, bear in mind that airports have long open areas.

A prudent marksman will train for the shots he <span style="font-style: italic">might</span> have to make, not just the ones which have the highest probabilities.
</div></div>
+1
 
#50
Re: Nightforce or Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Benchshoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The longest L.E. sniper shot I know of was over 500 yards, in West Virginia in the last couple of years by a W.V. state trooper.

Most L.E. shots are at relatively short range. However, bear in mind that airports have long open areas.

A prudent marksman will train for the shots he <span style="font-style: italic">might</span> have to make, not just the ones which have the highest probabilities.
</div></div>
+1 </div></div>

+1000

There was a recent article in one of the LE only mags which debriefed a US Border Patrol shooting. I believe the shot taken was just under 400 yards and it was at a pretty good angle. The shot was successful, but the angle was not accounted for and the shot placement was not perfect due to that and training on one dimensional targets exclusivley. The sniper was on overwatch for a UC or something. The article went on to state how important it is for LE to train at extended distances, under various conditions, at angles, and on 3D targets.
 
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