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NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

#51
#56
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

Both companies are suing. The motion to consolidate is to consolidate both cases into one preceding. A motion to consolidate usually occurs when two cases are tied together by a common question of law.. This makes the process more efficient and also saves litigation costs.. This can also be used as a tactic to keep one party from prolonging both cases to the point where the other party can no longer afford to litigate.. The case calendar below states that the next oral argument is on January 23rd 2012, so this is going to take some time..
 
#57
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 79Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both companies are suing. The motion to consolidate is to consolidate both cases into one preceding. A motion to consolidate usually occurs when two cases are tied together by a common question of law.. This makes the process more efficient and also saves litigation costs.. This can also be used as a tactic to keep one party from prolonging both cases to the point where the other party can no longer afford to litigate.. The case calendar below states that the next oral argument is on January 23rd 2012, so this is going to take some time.. </div></div>

Thanks for shedding some light on the topic. Oh, and welcome to the Hide!
wink.gif
 
#59
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

Same here. Did it start as a mutual 50/50 type partnership with a handshake and a vision? Or, did one guy start the machine shop/Hogan side and the other start the weapon design/POF side and they just worked together on getting things done?

If it was more like the 50/50 handshake partnership why are there two separate names and not just Hogan or POF.

If Hogan just manufactured POF's ideas while "building parts for many companies" then what they are doing now is nothing more than stealing someones brainchild/idea/dream/living/company.

I would imagine that they worked together trying to iron out problems and make ideas go from being on paper and thoughts to actual working parts. Thats normal when turning an idea into a product.

Overdue debt owed to Hogan is a possibility and seems to be one of the issues. That doesn't mean that a machine shop should be allowed to take your idea whether money is owed or not.

There are two sides to every story and we may never know what really happened, no matter what the courts decide.

I do hope that reasonable justice is served to anyone owed and something is done for both companies to move forward and clear of this mess, and I hope they get it right.

 
#60
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't conclude on the ethics question with no knowledge of the agreement they were operating under, and the circumstances involved.</div></div>

Smartest post in this thread.
 
#61
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So what you're saying is that no one should make ARs except <span style="text-decoration: line-through">Colt/Stoner</span> CMT/LMT?</div></div>

Fixed it for you
smile.gif
I got the gist of where you were going with that but AR's are not the best example to use in this case. There is a lot of manufacturing done under contract for branded AR's and not uncommon to be done under the same roof for different customers.

LMT = LMT, Lauer(old), DS Arms, PWA, Eagle, Knights Armament, Barrett, Bushmaster (?)
CMT = Stag, RRA, High Standard, Noveske (old), Century (current), Global Tactical, CLE, S&W, MGI (1st batch), Wilson Tactical, (some?) Colt, Ratworx
LAR = Grizzly, Bushmaster (L Prefix), Ameetech, (?)DPMS, CMMG, Double Star, Fulton, Spike's Tactical, Noveske (new)
MMS = Mega, Gunsmoke, Dalphon, POF (forged), Alexander Arms, Stinger, Spike's Tactical(old)
JVP = Double Star, LRB
Olympic = Olypmic, SGW, Tromix, Palmetto, Dalphon, Frankford, (old) Century
Superior = Superior Arms, Lauer (current)
 
#62
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bedlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't conclude on the ethics question with no knowledge of the agreement they were operating under, and the circumstances involved.</div></div>

Smartest post in this thread.
</div></div>You might be right, although I can't help but wonder whats going on. It is never good to draw conclusions or speculate and I'm not trying to do that. I just recently paid off a POF that took me 7 months so I'm probably more concerned than someone who doesn't own one. Example: like buying a truck and about the time you get it half paid off you start hearing rumors that the manufacturer might be done, you would have a lot of questions. Hopefully it gets resolved sooner than later though and works out/comes to some sort of conclusion for everyone involved.
 
#64
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

Looking from the outside in on a business stand point seems like someone wanted a bigger piece of the pie maybe hogan??

The last 10 ten years this seems to happen alot. Back in the early 2000's in equipment sales some assholes decided he was not happy driving a new Lexus and making great living and started to cut everyones throat so he could get a rolls or bentely but now those guys a doing any shady trick Just to say a float
 
#67
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

I'm sure I'm not the only POF/Hogan owner that gets an un-easy feeling reading all this. but the 23rd of Jan 2012 is coming up fast. I guess we shall all know how the cards fall and what the courts decide upon.
 
#69
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

So what is the final deal between Hogan and POF? Both guns are the same, both are still manufacturing with different names. I bet that POF is getting sponsors to gain support for their product in order to build a shop to be independent of Hogan. Of course that is a speculation, but it seems that nobody has a very good idea about what happened or what is still going on. That is cool that POF is sponsoring those fighters.
 
#71
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

On page 90 of the magazine Black Guns, there is an article about Hogan. It is fairly interesting and the author, Mike Detty, had done his research on the company without bias. I will put in a few quotes from the article.

"I was never aware that Hogan was building the majority of parts for a company that billed itself as a manufacturer of rifles. In an effort to learn more about Hogan, I decided to build a rifle using a majority of parts from the Glendale, Arizona, factory"

I can only assume the other company he was referring to was POF (that is an assumption) but how does GAP have a POF hunter rail on their new rifle while it is manufactured by Hogan?

"Hogan Manufacturing has been doing business as a full-line machine shop since 1996. Offering design and prototype work, they have done machining for a multitude of industries, including but not limited to the auto, movie, aerospace, medical and semiconductor industries. But according to Doug Kircher, Hogan's inside sales and marketing director, firearms have always been a passion for owner Robert Hogan."

You should check out the article. I am not a salesman for Black Guns magazine.
 
#72
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

I have the magazine and read the article. He couldn't have been referring to anyone other than POF because now it's pretty much common knowledge that POF is in a dispute with Hogan LLC.
 
#73
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

So what does POF do other than a better job at advertising and selling Hogan's product under a different name? To me, it seems like Hogan patented the design and does the manufacturing. It is a weird relationship.
 
#74
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paradude</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what does POF do other than a better job at advertising and selling Hogan's product under a different name? To me, it seems like Hogan patented the design and does the manufacturing. It is a weird relationship.</div></div>

Man, your guess is as good as mine. What doesn't make any sense to me is...if Hogan owns the patent for the POF design, why are they just now (since early 2011) producing rifles when POF has been producing them since 2006. Something isn't quite right.
confused.gif
 
#75
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paradude</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what does POF do other than a better job at advertising and selling Hogan's product under a different name? To me, it seems like Hogan patented the design and does the manufacturing. It is a weird relationship.</div></div>

Man, your guess is as good as mine. What doesn't make any sense to me is...if Hogan owns the patent for the POF design, why are they just now (since early 2011) producing rifles when POF has been producing them since 2006. Something isn't quite right.
confused.gif
</div></div>

Thought this was pretty interesting. It's a summary of the patent infringement suit. If you look under the "Related Cases" tab, it's one of several patent infringement suits that have been filed against Hogan in the last decade. Strictly speaking it doesn't indicate their culpability or anything, I guess, but like I was saying, I just thought it was notable.

http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/paten...n-corp/summary/
 
#76
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Solid_Squirrel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paradude</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what does POF do other than a better job at advertising and selling Hogan's product under a different name? To me, it seems like Hogan patented the design and does the manufacturing. It is a weird relationship.</div></div>

Man, your guess is as good as mine. What doesn't make any sense to me is...if Hogan owns the patent for the POF design, why are they just now (since early 2011) producing rifles when POF has been producing them since 2006. Something isn't quite right.
confused.gif
</div></div>

Thought this was pretty interesting. It's a summary of the patent infringement suit. If you look under the "Related Cases" tab, it's one of several patent infringement suits that have been filed against Hogan in the last decade. Strictly speaking it doesn't indicate their culpability or anything, I guess, but like I was saying, I just thought it was notable.

http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/paten...n-corp/summary/</div></div>

That's quite interesting indeed.
 
#77
Re: NO LOVE FOR HOGAN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If Hogan just manufactured POF's ideas while "building parts for many companies" then what they are doing now is nothing more than stealing someones brainchild/idea/dream/living/company.
</div></div>
 
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