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No More Neck Sizing for Me
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Okay, I was fine with the banter until this. Nothing infuriates more than a Zoom or Teams meeting pop up on my calendar, lol.
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He learned in all that time have saved neck sizing his brass.
I don't like you anymore.
The body die answer was the right answer
www.snipershide.com
Redding Body Die setup
Forgive me if I'm overlooking the obvious but I'm having a tough time getting my body die set up. I'm shooting a Surgeon Remedy in .338 Lapua with Lapua brass. I am using a Redding type S match neck die set. My loads are shooting great but closing the bolt has more resistance than I would...
www.snipershide.com
This is the difference between smooth as butter and a stuck case in my rifle.
Good measurements are important to the understanding of what is happening and what you are doing. Just a quick correction in case you didn't write it wrong before, that is a difference between 0.453" and 0.456", or 0.003" or three thousandths. This is still a substantial difference in body diameter.
Hi.Just neck sized a 260 and seated a 130.
Sides at shoulder was .455.
It chambers effortlessly.
Ran it through a body die, sides now measures .451 and it chambers exactly the same.
If by that you mean that your 0.--4" difference didn't make a difference, you are correct. But if the OP's chamber was a small 0.453-0.452", then that 3 thou makes a big difference.
I actually find it’s the diameter nearer to the base that is the culprit in sticky chambering.Hi.
If by that you mean that your 0.--4" difference didn't make a difference, you are correct. But if the OP's chamber was a small 0.453-0.452", then that 3 thou makes a big difference.
I've found the same thing. In the case web area. I went round and round with a 308 Steyr SSG 69. Thought the sticky chambering was from shoulder bump. It was the case web. Any number over .4685" gave sticky chambering. I tried a RCBS small base die. It wouldn't do it. I contacted Redding and asked if their small base die could get below that. I was told, yes it could. I bought a small base body die and that did it.
I took some resized cases and made them Go - Go Go gauges and used a set of dial calipers locked @ .468". I could take sized cases and then see if the case web would pass between the jaws. All that would pass would be GO.
That SSG 69 had a real tight chamber, but I figured it out and found a way to resize the case web and gauge the cases.
This was the first time I really needed a small base die.
Not in this case, the neck sized case is just a touch smaller near the base but will not chamber without effort and being knocked out with a rod. The full sized case slides right in.
I just did the same with another fired case.
At the web line( about 1/8” above the grove edge) fired it measures .4695 and yea I know that last 5 isn’t really accurate.
Sized in my body die it consistently measures .4690 moving the shoulder back 1 thou.
Both chambered effortlessly.
this is a new lot of brass that has been neck sized twice and third firing overall and will get All annealed and run through the body die on the next loading.
Buy the Forster collet puller. The little rod they include to tighten the collet is too short. Buy a 3-inch bolt, cut off the head, screw it into the hole. Grease the collet - both the surface that forces the collet to close on the bullet and the top. Also grease the "nut" surface that forces the collet down. Its fast and easy to use and doesn't mess up the bullets (much). I recently disassembled about 1,000 rounds of 308, saved the primed brass, bullets and powder. Lubed, resized, and tumbled the brass. Recharge with the correct powder charge. It shoots fine. I also have a davidson tool. It is fine for a couple of cases but for as many as shown in the photo, get the Forster.
Yikes. I’m glad I full length size.i neck size and you must look at the pic of the fox closely again. it was meant to be a sarcastic post that meant something
View attachment 7453638
not too bad just neck sizing i suppose
i just went and got measurements from my factory hornady tap 60gr and my neck sized only 60gr v-max rounds.
^ factory hornady tap 60gr
^ neck sized only reloads
^ reload on the LEFT and factory on the RIGHT
the way i see it, if it works for me i'll do it. when it stops working i'll change what i'm doing.
maybe people need to write to the manufacturers of sizing dies and argue with them over which is right and wrong.
there is no right and wrong WHEN it works, there are only OPINIONS which are like assholes, everyone has one
^ factory hornady tap 60gr
^ neck sized only reloads
^ reload on the LEFT and factory on the RIGHT
the way i see it, if it works for me i'll do it. when it stops working i'll change what i'm doing.
maybe people need to write to the manufacturers of sizing dies and argue with them over which is right and wrong.
there is no right and wrong WHEN it works, there are only OPINIONS which are like assholes, everyone has one
You missed an important dimension.i just went and got measurements from my factory hornady tap 60gr and my neck sized only 60gr v-max rounds.
View attachment 7454459View attachment 7454460
^ factory hornady tap 60gr
View attachment 7454461View attachment 7454462
^ neck sized only reloads
View attachment 7454463View attachment 7454464
^ reload on the LEFT and factory on the RIGHT
the way i see it, if it works for me i'll do it. when it stops working i'll change what i'm doing.
maybe people need to write to the manufacturers of sizing dies and argue with them over which is right and wrong.
there is no right and wrong WHEN it works, there are only OPINIONS which are like assholes, everyone has one
i can go get it for you now but im a slack carnt so i'll get it for you tomorrow cause its now bedtime here.
ok, since i felt like a smoke i caved and did it just so you don't have a stressful day.
yes hornady could of done a better job with their comparator and maybe machined the hole a smidge smaller but hey, who am i to tell hornady what to do.
like i said, even homer neck sizes...
yes hornady could of done a better job with their comparator and maybe machined the hole a smidge smaller but hey, who am i to tell hornady what to do.
like i said, even homer neck sizes...
I don't think rounds are getting stuck in the chamber due to excessive headspace. I think they get stuck because the side walls are expanding.
Excessive headspace will make it hard to close and later open the bolt, but I don't think that alone will make it stick.
The next point I question is why the case is so badly expanded that it binds on the side wall as that is suggestive of an excessively hot load and I would re-visit that.
When neck only sizing, excessive side wall growth can also occur as a result of repeated firings of a moderate pressure load, so if that's the case, you might have to to a minimal side wall resize and shoulder bump every few firings, but that is why so many guys just FL size every time.
While some guys insist that a minimal FL resize is always the best plan, I still feel that is not always good advice for a serious competitor, especially where extreme accuracy is the game.
I do FL resize for F Class but not with an over the counter die. I use a custom die that has been cut with a specially ordered sizing die reamer and then the die was polished to get the prefect amount of minimal side wall resize. Obviously most guys will not go to that extent to idealize case resizing.
Short of custom sizing dies, all most can do is choose between neck only for a few firings then FL size for another 2 or 3, or go to a light FL resize every time.
Regardless of what anyone else advocates, I've found neck only resized brass consistently produce the lowest velocity spreads and best accuracy, and for good reason if you think about the combustion mechanics. But, regardless of that fact, if you go that way, you need to pay close attention to the details so you don't get caught with over blown cases that wont chamber or are hard to extract.
One more point that is worth a thought... Results may vary depending upon your chamber. An example might be to compare a short throat for a 308 designed for a short 155 grain bullet... such a chamber will have almost no freebore to align the bullet with the rifling and this adds critical importance to how the case fits the chamber and how much runout or neck clearance there is.
Compare that to a 6BR throated for long 110 grain bullets... Such a chamber will have a very long freebore that will align the bullet to the chamber even if the brass is a sloppy fit.
So its not always fair to cast conclusions on loading advice for one cartridge and apply it to all others as results will be wildly different between them.
Excessive headspace will make it hard to close and later open the bolt, but I don't think that alone will make it stick.
The next point I question is why the case is so badly expanded that it binds on the side wall as that is suggestive of an excessively hot load and I would re-visit that.
When neck only sizing, excessive side wall growth can also occur as a result of repeated firings of a moderate pressure load, so if that's the case, you might have to to a minimal side wall resize and shoulder bump every few firings, but that is why so many guys just FL size every time.
While some guys insist that a minimal FL resize is always the best plan, I still feel that is not always good advice for a serious competitor, especially where extreme accuracy is the game.
I do FL resize for F Class but not with an over the counter die. I use a custom die that has been cut with a specially ordered sizing die reamer and then the die was polished to get the prefect amount of minimal side wall resize. Obviously most guys will not go to that extent to idealize case resizing.
Short of custom sizing dies, all most can do is choose between neck only for a few firings then FL size for another 2 or 3, or go to a light FL resize every time.
Regardless of what anyone else advocates, I've found neck only resized brass consistently produce the lowest velocity spreads and best accuracy, and for good reason if you think about the combustion mechanics. But, regardless of that fact, if you go that way, you need to pay close attention to the details so you don't get caught with over blown cases that wont chamber or are hard to extract.
One more point that is worth a thought... Results may vary depending upon your chamber. An example might be to compare a short throat for a 308 designed for a short 155 grain bullet... such a chamber will have almost no freebore to align the bullet with the rifling and this adds critical importance to how the case fits the chamber and how much runout or neck clearance there is.
Compare that to a 6BR throated for long 110 grain bullets... Such a chamber will have a very long freebore that will align the bullet to the chamber even if the brass is a sloppy fit.
So its not always fair to cast conclusions on loading advice for one cartridge and apply it to all others as results will be wildly different between them.
Neck sizing works great until you're beating your bolt open with a 2x4 because it got too fat at the base or, galling your bolt lugs because half the ammo chambers hard due to headspace. This will also cause inconsistent accuracy and wandering zero.
In the time it takes to measure all the cases, you could have lubed them, FL sized them, and put them in the tumbler. If lubeing takes too long and is too messy, learn how to use One Shot.
The only time I neck size, is when I am trying to set up a FL die, but can't find a fired case that chambers with resistance to base my FL die set up on. So pretty much 300WM for the first firing, sometimes the second.
Homer is a moron. Don't base what you do soley, on what a moron does. Thats not to say a moron never did anything right or had a good idea.
well with over 1500 rounds down range i've yet to smash the bolt open as you describe.
if you read any of my other replies i did say when neck sizing stops working for me i'll change what i'm doing.
i do have full length sizing dies and they're there to use after a few firings, but i primarily neck size with good results.
i don't understand why people are so argumentative when it comes to anything firearms related.
people do what works for them. when it stops working they come onto forums and have their say and have people tell them how they should be doing it when all they had to do is read their reloading manuals. that's what the manuals are there for. it teaches them how to reload, which surprisingly includes brass prep.
maybe we should get into the moa/mil debate and how americans use moa cause they think in inches?
sometimes people don't see the humour in others posts, like if you went back to the start of the thread and see where i post a pic of a fox that i shot in the neck and stated i neck size. it was meant to be a sarcastic funny post that escalated from there. all i did was provide numbers and heros come back to tell everyone that full length sizing is the only way, it's one way but not the only way.
one could also attribute neck sizing to the american waistline and mcdonalds, everyone knows mcdonalds isn't good for you but still you still end up there on a daily basis. one day they'll full length resize. neck sizing is much more pleasant on the taste buds than the wasitline.
people like yourself should just post a pic of Ford Cortina's pic on neck sizing and be done with it...
if you read any of my other replies i did say when neck sizing stops working for me i'll change what i'm doing.
i do have full length sizing dies and they're there to use after a few firings, but i primarily neck size with good results.
i don't understand why people are so argumentative when it comes to anything firearms related.
people do what works for them. when it stops working they come onto forums and have their say and have people tell them how they should be doing it when all they had to do is read their reloading manuals. that's what the manuals are there for. it teaches them how to reload, which surprisingly includes brass prep.
maybe we should get into the moa/mil debate and how americans use moa cause they think in inches?
sometimes people don't see the humour in others posts, like if you went back to the start of the thread and see where i post a pic of a fox that i shot in the neck and stated i neck size. it was meant to be a sarcastic funny post that escalated from there. all i did was provide numbers and heros come back to tell everyone that full length sizing is the only way, it's one way but not the only way.
one could also attribute neck sizing to the american waistline and mcdonalds, everyone knows mcdonalds isn't good for you but still you still end up there on a daily basis. one day they'll full length resize. neck sizing is much more pleasant on the taste buds than the wasitline.
people like yourself should just post a pic of Ford Cortina's pic on neck sizing and be done with it...
Good post. Also made me laugh.
It seems that sometimes when you post, you need to use the sarcasm font. I’m not sure where/what is is though as I’ve been trying to find it for years.
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I showed that video to an 85 year old wildcater and he had nothing negative to say about the guy and went on say for competition 1000 yards and beyond he FL but under 500 meters he had no problem a couple of neck sizing in between if the rifle had no problem with it. These days he just silhouette shoots out to 500 meters. Basically, he just laughed and said people need to use a little common sense and there is nothing set in stone. It depends on the rifle for the most part. "Good national level competition rifles won't accept neck sizing anyway, as well they shouldn't" pointing out the guy is basically only asking people at that level. That is 70 years of experience right there. He had a lot to say but that is about the gist of the conversation. The ol' man was and still is riding his Harley even before I was born 62 years ago.
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I’m a firm believer in just doing the same thing every single time. Consistency on the bench is consistency on the target.
Resized 236 decommissioned rounds last night (more than I thought were out of spec) with One Shot. That was a great recommendation, the stuff wipes off easily and it will be a part of my process from now on.
I have no doubt that neck sizing works for a lot of folks but I can 100% tell you that it does not work for my rifle even after the first firing of new 308 Lapua brass loaded on the low end (41gr precision) which is a large portion of those I had to run through the die again.
I would never tell anyone to stop doing what works for them but I know what works for my rifle now and won't repeat the mistake.
By the way, here's a shot from the week prior. I think it's decent for a 16" pack rifle with a mediocre shooter doing the work.
Your buddy neck sizes a couple times between fl sizings. That’s not doing the same thing every time. If I’m gonna do it every couple times out of necessity, I’ll just do it every time so it’s always equal.No fucking shit, you say, lol
Thanks for the advice newbie, I might listen, when what I do stops working.
Go back and read what wrote again. I didnt saying anything was the only way. I listed some pros and cons of the processes. You are the one trying to argue with everyone.
Never buy a neck die, then you are saving time and money. There is another consideration, of a new reloader. Not someone with your vast experience though.
I do like a Lee collet die for straightening out bugged up necks. My purchase of it predates a seriously galled set of bolt lugs.
Have fun on your journey of personal discovery heading down a well traveled path thinking you are the first one there.
People get hung up thinking everyone is telling them to change. I don't really care what anyone does with their rifle. They can load ammo they need to pound the bolt shut with a 2x4 for all I care. What I do like to see, is a newbie to be able to come through. Pick up some solid info that sets them up to have the least amount of trouble. Everything works right up until it doesn't.
It is easy to see which process sets you up to be the least likely to run into to trouble. Trouble many of us have run into. Even then sometimes a FL die doesn't match the chamber well. I just got a 20 Practical and its the first barrel I have ever had to small base once fired 223 for. I hope I don't have to small base the brass fired from the barrel. I will have to buy a new Redding type S FL small base, or keep running it through 2 dies.
well i'll post up pics when i full length size so you have something to talk about. its been a coiuple of years since i did so do wait up for me i might be a while.
Thanks for the advice newbie, I might listen, when what I do stops working.
Go back and read what wrote again. I didnt saying anything was the only way. I listed some pros and cons of the processes. You are the one trying to argue with everyone.
Never buy a neck die, then you are saving time and money. There is another consideration, of a new reloader. Not someone with your vast experience though.
I do like a Lee collet die for straightening out bugged up necks. My purchase of it predates a seriously galled set of bolt lugs.
Have fun on your journey of personal discovery heading down a well traveled path thinking you are the first one there.
was i speaking to you?
was i speaking to you?
"well with over 1500 rounds down range i've yet to smash the bolt open as you describe."
Clearly.
why is it when someone is having good results doing something one way and not your way you tend to tell them they're wrong?
read my words, i have yet to run into an issue neck sizing, and with over 1500 rounds down the pipe i have not had a sticky bolt lift due to neck sizing only. when i run out of brass and i get to 5 firings on each piece i will be annealing them and i will full length size ONCE after annealing, then proceed to neck size until i need to anneal again which will probably be in many years time. now go suck on your thumb and dribble.
all this cause i was trying to make people have a laugh by posting up a fox that i smashed in the neck and said i neck size. mcdonalds keeping full length sizing in business. now go return the womens undies back to the store cause you bought the wrong colour. it doesn't suit you.
read my words, i have yet to run into an issue neck sizing, and with over 1500 rounds down the pipe i have not had a sticky bolt lift due to neck sizing only. when i run out of brass and i get to 5 firings on each piece i will be annealing them and i will full length size ONCE after annealing, then proceed to neck size until i need to anneal again which will probably be in many years time. now go suck on your thumb and dribble.
all this cause i was trying to make people have a laugh by posting up a fox that i smashed in the neck and said i neck size. mcdonalds keeping full length sizing in business. now go return the womens undies back to the store cause you bought the wrong colour. it doesn't suit you.
I explained I was not telling you that you were wrong in a couple posts. I explained the problems I have run into, over the tens of thousands of rounds I have reloaded, and problems I have helped others with. A list of pros and cons as I said. I have yet to hear a "pro" for neck sizing only though.
You haven't even loaded the same cases 5 times yet. Online throwing stones and giving shit advice.
Thanks for qualifying your experience level as "shits yellow."I don't give a shit what you do. The only thing I care about is some newbie can see you know fuck all. Or they can follow the same path you are on, that many of us have been down, and learn the hard way.
they say americans are exceptional, exceptionally self centred.
and ignored. i have no time for dickheads.
and ignored. i have no time for dickheads.
.............................American exeptionlism is referring to our form of self governance. And how it was the only country that has that form of government where as people have rights and the government has restrictions. Vs people have privileges and the government tells them what to do.
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Yes, we know. You know how we know? Because you are very consistent on repeating yourself every chance you get. I really don't give a shit if a person FL size only and I don't give a shit if the next person neck sizes. It's a non-issue like most every other new nonexistent discovery posted up by somebody that used to do this, that, or the other than changes his mind and loses sleep over it becuase he or she is not getting the response they expected. Shit like this dates back to idiotic arguments like breaking in a barrel. What we should be doing is arguing about why someone wouldn't be stocking up on primers during an election year. Lot of dumb FL and neck sizing motherfuckers sitting at home with nothing but their dick in their hand talking about how they used to do it, lol.
Anyway, I just got through FL sizing 50 25-06 with the 131 gr. Blackjack and shot for groups at 500 meters and was getting .4-.5 MOA. Then I necked sized the same batch and repeated the process and got the same result. All with a cartridge whose geometry is not necessarily meant for this particular new bullet on the market. But one thing I won't do is repeat this over and over again here because I really don't give a shit.
You're not going to convince anybody otherwise and neither am I.
I would love to here some pros for neck sizing. I know some pros for having a collet die. I never found any benefit. What is the benefit if it doesn't save time?
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