Rifle Scopes No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

[jrob300]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killer Penguin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Know what else, dealers are trying to PAY snipershide to NOT allow other dealers on the site. </div></div>

What dealers are doing this? </div></div>

Probably enough said on this topic...

John

 

[sniperaviator]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

Don't blame your customers. For anything, ever. It always backfires. Your customers will whine for a better deal and try and do internet tricks. Some of them may be snakes, who knows. Don't get personal. They are just trying to get a better deal. Some might not be serious. For all you know the troublemakers are 10 year olds out for a laugh, internet being what it is.

Just state your price, and stick to it. You understand that the customer WANTS a lower price, but you have to have what you charge to deliver what you promise. Then stick to your end of the bargain. Be a pro.

Also, in business, you win some, you lose some. Some deals are better than others. That's the way life is. You're not ALWAYS going to come out on top. You can't always win. Let the other guy win sometimes. It's better that way. Goes for all of us really.

The Viper PST saga. What a scope, huh? I'm going to have to buy one just to see what all the hoopla is about. I hope they are good!

 

[hydro556]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

Please. Dont tell Scott how to do this bidness.

There are no vendors who treat customers better than Scott. Maybe one right with him, but none better.

It is a catch 22. Trying to cut his margins to take care of his customers (whilst providing better service than guys whose prices suck) and then some of those same customers running their fucking mouths biting him in the ass.

Scotts MO is as good as they come. You must not have spent much time talking to the man. He is cut from a different cloth. He gets it, he gets what we need and never tires of going above and beyond. This makes me sick.

 

[jrob300]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't blame your customers. </div></div>

Trust me. It wasn't one of "his customers" that started this. Loyalty, camaraderie, kinship... they go two ways.

Whoever did this cared not in the least about Scott and the fact that he has a family and a business that pays his firewood bill.

John

 

[LibertyOptics]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

Guys,

All the comments and support are appreciated, as well as the opinions to the contrary.

I had to institute a policy change, a change which was a somewhat radical departure for us, and I felt the need to explain why. In this case, I do not believe it was dealers, I do know this happened one time too many and it was time to draw the line.

I'm fine, and LO is fine.

IMHO, this thread (as many threads here are want to do, it seems) has drifted off topic and really no further posts or responses are needed. This was a "FYI" post announcing a new policy. Believe me, if I didn't give a "why", I would have been bombarded with PMs and emails and such asking that very question. I just saved myself a lot of precious time. There was no easy choices here, but they were necessary choices.

Thanks again, guys, and have a good night.

Scott

 

[Aubie]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

I don't know Scott but I am shopping around for a new scope. After reading his post I can say I won't be buying one from him. Why would you blame someone for trying to save a buck? If they are spamming you just politely tell them your price and ignore if they persist.

It's fortunate that you have a backlog of orders to fill, but a simple google search reveals this scope is available from a few other vendors (FFP and all). I would be willing to support a hide vendor and wait until they had one in stock but I won't do business with someone who vents his aggravation in a public forum with someone just trying to save a buck. If the customer is impolite or rude then yes you have every right to be upset, but everyone has the right to negotiate a better deal.

 

[Chadwick122689]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aubie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know Scott but I am shopping around for a new scope. After reading his post I can say I won't be buying one from him. Why would you blame someone for trying to save a buck? If they are spamming you just politely tell them your price and ignore if they persist.

It's fortunate that you have a backlog of orders to fill, but a simple google search reveals this scope is available from a few other vendors (FFP and all). I would be willing to support a hide vendor and wait until they had one in stock but I won't do business with someone who vents his aggravation in a public forum with someone just trying to save a buck. If the customer is impolite or rude then yes you have every right to be upset, but everyone has the right to negotiate a better deal. </div></div>

He gave an update of a policy change and a reason why... Which is why he is so respected on this forum (among many other reasons)... Saving a buck is a well and good, BUT taking a favor from someone and then pissing on it is kind of a dick move...

 

[jrob300]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aubie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know Scott but I am shopping around for a new scope. After reading his post I can say I won't be buying one from him. Why would you blame someone for trying to save a buck? If they are spamming you just politely tell them your price and ignore if they persist.

It's fortunate that you have a backlog of orders to fill, but a simple google search reveals this scope is available from a few other vendors (FFP and all). I would be willing to support a hide vendor and wait until they had one in stock but I won't do business with someone who vents his aggravation in a public forum with someone just trying to save a buck. If the customer is impolite or rude then yes you have every right to be upset, but everyone has the right to negotiate a better deal. </div></div>

With all due respect...

I think you misread the tenor of this thread.

John

 

[KeithR41]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

You have no fucking clue what youre talking about. Either support LO or not but don't come here and be a doucheocause your vagina is sticky.

41

 

[neeley205]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aubie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know Scott but I am shopping around for a new scope. After reading his post I can say I won't be buying one from him. Why would you blame someone for trying to save a buck? If they are spamming you just politely tell them your price and ignore if they persist.

It's fortunate that you have a backlog of orders to fill, but a simple google search reveals this scope is available from a few other vendors (FFP and all). I would be willing to support a hide vendor and wait until they had one in stock but I won't do business with someone who vents his aggravation in a public forum with someone just trying to save a buck. If the customer is impolite or rude then yes you have every right to be upset, but everyone has the right to negotiate a better deal. </div></div>

I believe you have misunderstood the purpose of the post.

 

[LibertyOptics]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

You sir, have that right.

It's not just a case of someone trying to save a buck, Lord knows I'm quite OK with that, and have the track record to prove it

It's just things have become much more complicated these days and with the advent of MAP and the internet age it would be good to establish certain protocols that are a win/win for vendor and customer.

It's also not just a question of spamming dealers, it's now dealers that get manufacturers involved and everyone is setting up, turning in, or complaining about someone else's prices or business activity. It's become quite the mess. "Most" people here are savvy and know what is going on, but a "very few" feel the need to play table tennis referee and everyone loses in the long run. I only control what I can and what I can do is not play the game anymore, in this case.

Thanks for the feedback.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aubie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know Scott but I am shopping around for a new scope. After reading his post I can say I won't be buying one from him. Why would you blame someone for trying to save a buck? If they are spamming you just politely tell them your price and ignore if they persist.

It's fortunate that you have a backlog of orders to fill, but a simple google search reveals this scope is available from a few other vendors (FFP and all). I would be willing to support a hide vendor and wait until they had one in stock but I won't do business with someone who vents his aggravation in a public forum with someone just trying to save a buck. If the customer is impolite or rude then yes you have every right to be upset, but everyone has the right to negotiate a better deal. </div></div>

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aubie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know Scott but I am shopping around for a new scope. After reading his post I can say I won't be buying one from him. Why would you blame someone for trying to save a buck? If they are spamming you just politely tell them your price and ignore if they persist.

It's fortunate that you have a backlog of orders to fill, but a simple google search reveals this scope is available from a few other vendors (FFP and all). I would be willing to support a hide vendor and wait until they had one in stock but I won't do business with someone who vents his aggravation in a public forum with someone just trying to save a buck. If the customer is impolite or rude then yes you have every right to be upset, but everyone has the right to negotiate a better deal. </div></div>

You apparently have NEVER worked in retail, and if so not very long. Do it for 30+yrs and then see if "the customer is always right"!!!! My bet you will be looking for whoever came up with that line and wanting to kick him in the nuts so hard there is a testicular orbit!!!!

Oh, and I have never done business with LO but know where he is coming from with his policy change. Again "people suck", not all, but you'd be surprised at what they will do to "just save a buck" as you put it!!!

 

[jrob300]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leave it to the few, to ruin a good thing for the many.</div></div>

It's not often that I quote myself, but in this case...

John

 

[2ndamendfan]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

Really I like to save a buck, so don't get me wrong in the following.

Scotts' prices are posted on his web site. As are most other businesses (posted somewhere, on the shelf or web). So why do you have to ask for a "deal"?? If you don't like the price of anything don't buy it. I just don't get people. Again If you didn't see it before:

EVERYONE THINKS THEY ARE WORTH A MILLION, BUT NO ONE THINKS THE OTHER GUY IS.

I agree with an earlier post that these type of customers are NOT "good" customers at all.

I have one question for all of those who state, "what is wrong with saving a buck"

When you go to the store and buy your groceries (Wal-Fart I would guess). After the cashier rings you up and your total is like $212.87 do you ask for the manager, and when he/she comes over do you point to the total and ask "what are you going to do for me???" with a dumbass look on your face.

 

[ToddM]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

Nothing against Scott but a lot of dealers make their own pain on this issue by posting things that basically allude to call/email/pm for the "real" price and we'll see what we can work out. Between that and word of mouth it doesn't take long for people to find out the prices on the web pages are not the "real" prices and by calling/emailing/etc. you can save a couple hundred bucks.

If walmart had commercials saying "Hey come in and when you get the total at the register, ask for a manager and we'll work on a better price for ya" and customers talked to other customers saying how they called the manager and got an extra 10-15% off their total, you can be DAMN sure the majority of customers would do it.

*IF* the dealers refused to sell for anything but MAP, there would be no issues and no problems, but it would suck for the customers. Sadly, instead of customers being supportive of the dealers and the deals they get they aren't smart about it, shoot their mouth off, and other dealers find out, or inquire posing as customers, and then go cry like babies to the manufacturer.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

You are right I have seen the call me/pm me/ email me posts. Also you think they are saving another $200 on a PST or is more like $20?? I really have no idea just asking.

I did ask for a "deal" once and after I felt like a douche bag, felt like I had stolen from the guy. Since then if I don't like the price I don't buy. Must be just me.

The one place I will ask is if something is used, sold by the owner. I.E. in the for sale section, or a garage sale. Even then I have to work myself up to it.

I don't mind being "price shopped". It is when you get a call back that so-and-so will do it for less will you. If so-and-so is so good then take your business there. But they want the service and the price.

 

[UserM4]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

Although we lost the ability to negotiate with Scott and save a few bucks, Scott lost his niche to be able to offer a discount and attract so many of his loyalists. I'm truly sorry. I can only imagine how much revenue you have lost because of this.

The manufacturers that I deal with, although strict about MAP, have no restrictions about quoting prices over the phone. Hopefully you figure something out bud.

 

[Aubie]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aubie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know Scott but I am shopping around for a new scope. After reading his post I can say I won't be buying one from him. Why would you blame someone for trying to save a buck? If they are spamming you just politely tell them your price and ignore if they persist.

It's fortunate that you have a backlog of orders to fill, but a simple google search reveals this scope is available from a few other vendors (FFP and all). I would be willing to support a hide vendor and wait until they had one in stock but I won't do business with someone who vents his aggravation in a public forum with someone just trying to save a buck. If the customer is impolite or rude then yes you have every right to be upset, but everyone has the right to negotiate a better deal. </div></div>

With all due respect...

I think you misread the tenor of this thread.

John </div></div>

If so I apologize. I was simply trying to help Scott out. From someone who doesn't know him it looks like he is annoyed that people are shopping around. I have bought scopes from vendors here and the common practice is to email for the best price. Since I don't know Scott, all I was trying to say was that I am less willing to buy from a dealer that appears to be annoyed by negotiation. To me that sets off red flags. What happens when I need customer service... Will he be annoyed then too? It looks like he has a great reputation but I am new and don't know that first hand.

 

[jlaw973]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

It still sucks Scott has to change HIS business practices when he did not ADVERTISE lower than MAP. It shouldn't be any big deal if he wants to give someone a good deal, it's money out of his pocket, not anyone elses. He didn't "publicaly" advertise, so I don't see any reason why a dealer should have any problem, or why it would be any of their business. If they don't like it, then make better deals for they customers also. And as long as the MAP rule isn't broken, then it shouldn't effect the manufacture either, an email or phone conversation is not M"Advertised"P, it's private pricing.

 

[dar1246]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

If a dealer marks a price on something. That is the price. Pay or don't pay. I've had customers get a quote from me and then call my other store and try to get a better price. Even though I own the company=, there is some that still try.
Bottom line. Good Company, Good Service, Fair Price. Whats the problem. Pay the man.

 

[LRS_Ranger]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ToddM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nothing against Scott but a lot of dealers make their own pain on this issue by posting things that basically allude to call/email/pm for the "real" price and we'll see what we can work out. Between that and word of mouth it doesn't take long for people to find out the prices on the web pages are not the "real" prices and by calling/emailing/etc. you can save a couple hundred bucks.

If walmart had commercials saying "Hey come in and when you get the total at the register, ask for a manager and we'll work on a better price for ya" and customers talked to other customers saying how they called the manager and got an extra 10-15% off their total, you can be DAMN sure the majority of customers would do it.

*IF* the dealers refused to sell for anything but MAP, there would be no issues and no problems, but it would suck for the customers. Sadly, instead of customers being supportive of the dealers and the deals they get they aren't smart about it, shoot their mouth off, and other dealers find out, or inquire posing as customers, and then go cry like babies to the manufacturer. </div></div>

Nobody can fault someone trying to save a buck, hell I will any time I can. I think where the line is drawn is when it goes past calling a vendor to ask about the lower price. If you negotiate a deal with Scott, then don't email that whole conversation to another vendor and ask if they can beat that price. That's just not classy, and plus it gives the new vendor something to bitch about if they aren't willing to go that low. Trying to play Mom vs Dad for how many cookies they will give you is the dick move that I think that Scott is talking about.

 

[shankster..]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

This is the result of all of the kids and shit birds that have flooded the Hide and are allowed to make this place their own.

I knew this was coming from just reading some of the complaints from vendors here having to deal with the high school kids and parent's basement dwellers constantly calling them and claiming poverty.

 

[MillSpec]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hiders,

You guys know we love and appreciate doing business with you and hanging out on this forum. We've always done our best to take care of you guys 24/7/365.

However, unfortunately, there are a very few of you who still do not grasp the meaning of discretion and good manners. You feel the need to copy/paste/send email and PM strings to other dealers in an effort to save a couple more dollars on your purchase. This is causing me a great deal of distress. So, from this point on, any requests for price matching or quoting "best price" on the Viper PST scopes will be politely denied. Frankly, I have enough backorders on these things to keep me busy for months, so I do not need the hassle. If you wish to do business with us, then order online and we will contact you when your scope arrives. If you can find the scope you need from another dealer then by all means do so. The supply of these scopes has been, and will continue to be, limited and these have been easily selling at MAP.

To those who are currently waiting to get your scopes from us, we appreciate you choosing to do business with us, and we will honor any discount we may have offered you. Those of you are are just getting into the market, LO offers these scopes to you at MAP pricing, plus a hefty wait until fulfillment, esp. on the FFP mil/mil models

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation in this matter.

Scott

</div></div>

Nothing like good old price fixing to ruin your day. How about introducing some competition into the land of capitalism?

MAP = Maintain ALL PROFITS

Why should anyone have to keep a good deal to themselves.

MAP = good for dealers, manufacturers and shareholders and bad for customers!

This isnt LO's fault but a systemic problem in the way the US handles price fixing. This is a legalised cartel. No one gives any discounts which means everyone makes maximum profits right up the chain!

 

[CMH]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aubie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I was simply trying to help Scott out. </div></div>

I followed the rest of your message, but this I did not get this from your original message.

 

[BCP]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
MAP = good for dealers, manufacturers and shareholders and bad for customers!
</div></div>

Pretty much. Unfortunately MAP seems to be the wave of the future for internet pricing. I'd rather they let the retailers figure out their own margins but that's just how it is.

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

amen to that, it should be all about getting people the right stuff and keeping customers happy. giving good sound advice and guidance

 

[poison123]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hiders,

You guys know we love and appreciate doing business with you and hanging out on this forum. We've always done our best to take care of you guys 24/7/365.

However, unfortunately, there are a very few of you who still do not grasp the meaning of discretion and good manners. You feel the need to copy/paste/send email and PM strings to other dealers in an effort to save a couple more dollars on your purchase. This is causing me a great deal of distress. So, from this point on, any requests for price matching or quoting "best price" on the Viper PST scopes will be politely denied. Frankly, I have enough backorders on these things to keep me busy for months, so I do not need the hassle. If you wish to do business with us, then order online and we will contact you when your scope arrives. If you can find the scope you need from another dealer then by all means do so. The supply of these scopes has been, and will continue to be, limited and these have been easily selling at MAP.

To those who are currently waiting to get your scopes from us, we appreciate you choosing to do business with us, and we will honor any discount we may have offered you. Those of you are are just getting into the market, LO offers these scopes to you at MAP pricing, plus a hefty wait until fulfillment, esp. on the FFP mil/mil models

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation in this matter.

Scott

</div></div>

Nothing like good old price fixing to ruin your day. How about introducing some competition into the land of capitalism?

MAP = Maintain ALL PROFITS

Why should anyone have to keep a good deal to themselves.

MAP = good for dealers, manufacturers and shareholders and bad for customers!

This isnt LO's fault but a systemic problem in the way the US handles price fixing. This is a legalised cartel. No one gives any discounts which means everyone makes maximum profits right up the chain! </div></div>


Give it a rest dude.

 

[ceylonc]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

I wasn't going to weigh in on this but have a couple of thoughts that may contribute to the spirit of this thread.

First off, I'm a friend, previous customer and BIG fan of Scott/Liberty Optics. He is a class act in every sense of the term and provides fantastic customer service & shares product knowledge with shooters of all levels of experience. He's a big reason why some guys here are shooting & competing today and is a true asset to the 'Hide.

What is going on with Scott & every other shooting industry product where MAP is involved is nothing but a big economics lesson. No need to go into details but you have the "Wal-Mart" effect (ie--big player, "wholesale" pricing, cutthroat marketing & "loss leaders" in play) creeping into niche industries like tactical & benchrest shooting, etc. These used to be small market segments served by a small group of retailers who provided exceptional service, product knowledge, and MSRP pricing. Competition & relationships between the players in these niches was professional & kept above board the vast majority of the time. These little guys could survive because their profit margins were adequate & they could develop a loyal & passionate customer base due to their excellent service & vast product knowledge as it related to the specific niche they were serving.

As the economy has contracted over the last few years, a lot of the high volume outdoor/hunting/shooting product catagories have shrunk while these niche segments have been stable or grown. Thus, the big guys decide they want in on the action & the first thing they do is drop pricing to MAP in order to try to grab a share of the market. Never mind that the vast majority of them don't "know" the customer they're now targeting or are even set up to provide advice or pre/post purchase servicing to the clientelle. To them, they'll compete on price alone & there will be customers. You know what, <span style="font-style: italic">they are right</span> and have been effective in cutting into the market share & pockets of the little guy who was there first. Couple this into the fact that a "big guy" can walk into SHOT or any manufacturer's headquarters & drop big $$ to purchase all the demos or entire production runs at a well below standard dealer price. Think they'll pass along this extended savings to the customer: NO. They'll keep the product at MAP but reap a higher margin that the rest of the dealer base still buying at "Dealer Price" but selling at MAP. This further erodes the customer base & margins of the people who helped grow the niche in the first place. In the end, you have your little guy having to accept smaller margins, aggressive customers shopping every dealer in town/online, and eventually bleeding small but established businesses to what may be come a slow death...

This isn't just within the optics segment either. I do a fairly robust nylon business & want to grow in 2011. I called a (unnamed) manufacturer after SHOT for dealer pricing, policies, etc and had some questions regarding the MAP policy. In no uncertain terms, the rep told me that yes, they do enforce MAP, but "...it gets complicated" with enforcement when it comes to their large, national accounts. She basically told me that they would not enforce MAP on those accounts because, and I quote, "They spend $1 million dollars a year with us". So, in many cases, you have selective enforcement of MAP where the manufacturer relinquishes control of the policy to whichever BIG customer who decides to openly advertise below MAP. In these cases, the little guy pretty much has to make a decision whether to carry & compete with the same item or just eliminate the product from their catalog. If it's the latter, the customer may be getting the item at MAP price but they are losing a dealer who possesses a knowledge base & could possibly advise on other products that might be better suited to the customer's applications.

I never fault a customer for shopping for what they perceive as the "best" deal. We live in a capitalist society and an item is worth what somebody is willing to pay for it & what the seller is willing to sell it for, not what price the manufacturer assigns to the item. However, manufacturers do play a part & can put a lot of pressure & weight on the dealers who sell their stuff. MAP, while inconvenient, isn't really that big of deal IF privacy is maintained between customer & dealer. Competition prevails, and the CUSTOMER decides whether the price they're able to find is worth it, from a performance, quality, service and value perspective. Regardless, Scott's dilemma & subsequent decision to alter his sales policies should be a fair warning that advertised prices on most of the stuff guys here want are likely going to go UP in the near term. After much thought of late (and reading the numerous pages in this thread), I too have decided to omit the "'Hide member hook up" phrase that used to be part of my sig line. The risk of losing valuable vendors over a MAP spat is simply too great in the current environment to make such an offering or statement in the public arena.

Sorry for the rant. Hopefully the folks here will continue to see the value of a business like Liberty Optics and will continue to support it's existance by buying from Scott.

 

[ToddM]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

Problem is this has nothing to do with MAP, it's just under the table price fixing. All the dealers are in line with their advertised prices from what I've seen. This is just manufacturer enforced price fixing, perhaps not by the letter of the law, but effectively when the manufacturer says you can't advertise for anything below a certain price (MAP), and then punishes or eliminates dealers because they are making private sales below a certain price, it's price fixing.

 

[grayghost]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

I too am new to the hide and went by the recommendations of others when I called Scott at LO. Did not leave message but he called me back the next day, and after a pleasant talk I placed my scope order with LO. The pricing was the same as other dealers, I went with LO because of the honesty and service. Scott is tops in my book

 

[71firebird400]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

So what do the manufacturer's have to gain with a MAP? They set the price that they sell to their dealers, regardless if they have a MAP policy or not. I don't see how enforcing a MAP price would influence what the manufacturer is able to sell the scope to their dealers for.

I think a lot of you are pinning MAP prices on the manufacturer's as them being 'greedy', but how do they benefit from this process? I think MAP defends the dealers more than anything.


Aubie- you appear to have the reading comprehension of a fourth grader. Scott isn't bitching about people asking him for a deal; him giving good deals is what caused this! He's bitching that OTHER dealers are complaining to Vortex that he is willing to cut his customer's a better price than they think he should.

 

[Mute]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

Scope retailers aren't car dealerships. They don't get incentives and rebates for volume. The lower than MAP pricing that LO offered was a courtesy to the members of this forum. If you penny pinchers can't understand the difference there's no point in trying to explain it to you.

I understand trying to get the most for your dollar but sometimes one can go too far.

 

[Jhnmdahl]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

It seems that if Vortex's only stated policy is minimum advertised pricing, they shouldn't be bugging Scott on behalf of other vendors who complain that he cuts a few bucks off if you contact him.

Unfortunately for Scott, minimum advertised pricing is legal in most situations in the US since the Leegin Creative Leather Products supreme court decision a few years ago, and there's not much he can do if Vortex is twisting his arm other than to do what he just did - make it clear that he won't do it any more if it jeapordizes his ability to get product from Vortex.

He's clearly frustrated in his posting, I suspect with Vortex and the other vendors as much as with price shoppers. And given that he can sell every one he gets for MAP with no effort for the time being, it's hard to be upset with Scott for the position he's found himself in...

 

[McKinneyMike]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

Aubie,

The issue is not people trying to get a good deal! It is their underhanded method of using emails and price quotes that were given in good faith and then going to dealer X and saying can you beat this? Either do business like a man and hammer out a deal with the person that you are wanting to purchase from or else go buy a Baraska and be done with it if a few dollars makes your world go round.
I was in retail for many years and owned my own business. Customer care, knowledge and professionalism is something that some people could care less about. These same people should also learn a little etiquette which their parents were obviously lacking!

 

[ToddM]

Re: No more Viper PST quotes / price matches

What they need to do is just change their policy to be truthful and call it Minimum Selling Price, because obviously that's what's happening here, it has nothing to do with advertising but obviously if you want to sell vortex scopes below the MAP price you are going to get in trouble, advertised or not. Sounds like some other manufacturers should do the same thing since it seems to be SOP.