Night Vision No SiCo Radius alternative for say $600? Seriously?

[dang472]

Rangefinder technology has advanced in the last 5 years to give us affordable options to range a mile in the palm of our hand. How can there not be a $400-$600 weapon mounted rangefinder on the market? All I need is a smaller, robust version of the Radius that can do up to 700 yards at night. I don’t need Raptar ballistics or anything. Let me range a coyote at 300 yards, then my reticle will do the rest.

 

[cake5150]

Agreed. I've been saying for a couple years a smaller, tougher Radius that accepts LaRue/ADM/ARMS #17 type mounts for <$1k would sell. A simple anti-cant indicator like the Raptar has would be bonus points. For $360, my Radius has been one of the most cost-effective tools available in my NV toolbox.

 

[softcock]

yes, just a ( less is more attitude ) for night range hunter with 'Zero' inboard bullshit fluff options .
A quality IR diode that is going to stay nice and tight with it's beam for strong hits for minus 1-k yards rangeing . Needs to 'at minimum' Hit strong on a small object (like coyote) and give range at least to 300-400 yrd.
build it tough for Recoil and Waterproof . simple Rangefind with ( 1 ) On/Off button , and ( 1 ) Range button .
digital exterior screen displaying distance read . Screen needs a day/night mode for brightness .
A small rectangle box Aluminum housing with a small Picatinny rail attachment on housing . for attach to side of thermal spotter , Tripod , Rifle rail ..etc .

Asking for that in the year 2020 is not asking for much .
.

 

[dang472]

I bought my Radius for the Brownells $500 sale as a whatever, sure type of purchase. Now they’re $1300 eBay gold with no warranty. My hunting buddy needs one because I’m constantly whispering ranges on incoming targets at night.

 

[wigwamitus]

Radiae are still available on the used market. They will range out to 3,300yds at night on my land.

Grab some of those while you're waiting for someone else to build one.

 

[dang472]

Well Pulsar managed to build one for the side of their Trail for not a crazy increase in cost. I wonder who actually built that for them. I’d be fine buying another Radius for maybe $750, but word must be out on these because everyone wants $1000 or more.

 

[wigwamitus]

I guess they are becoming "collectors" items

Well, there are a tiny few Armasights laying around you might be able to get for $1500 to $2000.

After that the RAPTAR ES and Newcon Optic 905nm those are around $3,000 plus or minus ...

Then the RAPTAR S and Newcon 1500nm for $6k+

There are some others made overseas, but getting them imported might be a PITA.

So as long as the Radiae are costing less than the competition, they're still attractive ... not sure the Armasights are repairable either. But the RAPTAR ES and a Newcon 905s should be.

Of course, you could just get a trail/LRF

 

[dang472]

It just seems so dumb that a golf guy can buy a 500 yard rangefinder for say $150 that ties to his golf bag but I can’t buy a “Sig Kilo 600” with a small picatinny rail on an adjustable base for $400.

To add insult, the entire AR industry lusts to mount dumb shit on rails including tactical ballsacks and I can’t get a damn rangefinder.

 

[wigwamitus]

When the radiae first came out, the initial purchasers hated them ... and the price dropped to $300 ... and folks like "brownells" were dumping them ... and sico reacted and shut down the project ... fired all the folks ... etc.

But now what 3-4 years later ... the night hunters are snapping them up ...

 

[dang472]

Yeah but now everyone seems to be looking for an App or some electronic ballistic combo. Something a hair smaller and lighter than the Radius for $400-500 should sell in the circles that pay $600 for a Kestrel, $1000 for a tripod, $6000 for thermal etc. I’m not bashful about spending money on quality gear but I see no reason to go the Raptar route for predator hunting. I have no desire to range a Morton Building at 2,400 yards at 2am. I would just like to know if that coyote in an open field is 240 yards or 340.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

From what I was told by some engineers, the biggest challenges are zeroing and recoil hardening - both for the zeroing function and for the laser gear itself. I've tried to get a little momentum going with some folks I know on one for the same reasons listed here, but so far no dice.

 

[wigwamitus]

Again, the radius will range out to 3,300yds on most nights, so distance at night is not tough. But, we can ask people to do range finders, but I wouldn't be holding my breath. There aren't many choices for rifle mounted ... and once you go above $3k, the Trails with the built in range finders enter the field.

 

[kthomas]

When the radiae first came out, the initial purchasers hated them ... and the price dropped to $300 ... and folks like "brownells" were dumping them ... and sico reacted and shut down the project ... fired all the folks ... etc.

But now what 3-4 years later ... the night hunters are snapping them up ...

The consumers killed the product. First it wasn't good enough, everyone complained and SiCo dropped the product from their lines.

Now that it's gone people finally see the value in the system, and want something similar to return. Glad I picked one up cheap from Brownells when I had the chance.

 

[wigwamitus]

... people finally see the value ...

I'm bettin' they are different people ... but what you are saying is 100% correct.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

Yeah but now everyone seems to be looking for an App or some electronic ballistic combo. Something a hair smaller and lighter than the Radius for $400-500 should sell in the circles that pay $600 for a Kestrel, $1000 for a tripod, $6000 for thermal etc. I’m not bashful about spending money on quality gear but I see no reason to go the Raptar route for predator hunting. I have no desire to range a Morton Building at 2,400 yards at 2am. I would just like to know if that coyote in an open field is 240 yards or 340.

The ability to range 2k+ at night is a byproduct of getting it to range 1k consistently on the daylight.
The NV and thermal user base is larger now than when the radius was made. With more people getting in the game and realizing they need to be able to range things in darkness I would hope another option would come along.

 

[PlinkIt]

I'm waiting for someone to take an "unconditional warrantied" rangefinder and mount it to a rifle and see what happens... Lol

 

[SDet]

I'm waiting for someone to take an "unconditional warrantied" rangefinder and mount it to a rifle and see what happens... Lol

What about cutting it up and adding a screen and visible aiming laser...

 

[Tchitcherine]

Companies making weapon mounted laser aiming devices already solved the recoil and zeroing mechanical problems. They should be well situated to make a nice, modern, compact next-gen Radius type product, just add ranging.

 

[deersniper]

I’d settle for a ballistics enabler raptor for $1000.

 

[Bayoubigcat]

I’d settle for a ballistics enabler raptor for $1000.

Got a link?

 

[Bayoubigcat]

Seems like the Radius was too ahead of its time...demand drives the market.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

You’re in here asking for what already exists and does it very damn well. If dipshits understood how to use it correctly and zero it when it came out instead of running their mouth and bitching about a problem that never existed they might still be making them.

I love my radius’s and will not be parting with them anytime soon. They simply work and work well

 

[dang472]

I’m not selling my Radius either and will probably pick up another if one pops up at a decent price. My original point is that there should be a smaller/better/cheaper version in the marketplace because it’s been 4 years or so since Gen 1.

A lot of manufacturers are heading the electro optics route and trying to incorporate rangefinders into day scopes, HUDs, and the thermal/NV market is ever expanding every year. I just don’t see why this is such a big ask.

 

[_Windrider_]

You’re in here asking for what already exists and does it very damn well. If dipshits understood how to use it correctly and zero it when it came out instead of running their mouth and bitching about a problem that never existed they might still be making them.

I love my radius’s and will not be parting with them anytime soon. They simply work and work well

Until it doesn’t.

 

[deersniper]

I want one of these.

Beyond Trackingpoint: DARPA's Computational Weapon Optic

It seems that DARPA isn't chasing the 'pull the trigger for you' technology like Tracking Point, but is hoping to have a multi-role electro-optic of their own.

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Until it doesn’t.

out of the 2 dozen myself and hunting partners/shooters have I know of not one single one that's went down or failed. I also am not sure if you think miraculously that any other device such as a raptar wouldn't or couldn't be susceptible to the same failure?

 

[Killswitch Engage]

I’m not selling my Radius either and will probably pick up another if one pops up at a decent price. My original point is that there should be a smaller/better/cheaper version in the marketplace because it’s been 4 years or so since Gen 1.

A lot of manufacturers are heading the electro optics route and trying to incorporate rangefinders into day scopes, HUDs, and the thermal/NV market is ever expanding every year. I just don’t see why this is such a big ask.

I think you will start seeing all sorts of shit coming to market in the near future that will make you happy.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I think you will start seeing all sorts of shit coming to market in the near future that will make you happy.

I'm hoping. I recently got into hunting with NV, and I'd love to have a Radius or similar for it, but the increasing prices and maybe-kinda-sorta warranty status on the Radius has me unwilling to make the jump.

 

[niteshooter]

I’m in the same boat and keeping my eyes peeled for the next thing.
I grabbed a Radius in 2016 full price expressly for ranging with NV. Works better than expected.

Then they were gone and I wish I had a spare since they are almost a rare bird now. I have bigger fish to fry with my cash but they still come up for sale on Facebook occasionally near full price.

Whenever the bills stack up I look at it and see the dollar signs but can’t bring myself to want to give it up.
So in the mean time I wait. Who knows what’s coming.
I mean hey, .25 cal got a nice high BC bullet finally so things are possible.

 

[_Windrider_]

out of the 2 dozen myself and hunting partners/shooters have I know of not one single one that's went down or failed. I also am not sure if you think miraculously that any other device such as a raptar wouldn't or couldn't be susceptible to the same failure?

Nope. They all fail. Difference is the raptar has support. The radius becomes a paper weight. If you have one excellent. If you don’t I wouldn’t buy one.

 

[PlinkIt]

Doesn't necessarily become a paperweight...

Turns out there are still a couple guys at SICO service that know a little about the units

IF they can fix it without sourcing components they don't have... They will fix it

I literally just spoke with them a couple weeks ago, they will TRY to service them still

 

[wigwamitus]

I figure what's gonna fail if nothing else does is the switches. And that's both the pressure switches and the on body switches. Particularly the on/off/ranging button. Eventually the electronics will fail, circuit boards always burn out eventually. But the switches might fail first.
I have two radiae, one I've used the pressure switch 100s if not 1000s of times and it still works. But I switched to using the onboard switch which I've now used about the same amount.
The second one I got used. I never have unwrapped the pressure switch and it looked like the prior owner didn't either. So I've only used the on body switch on that one 100s if not 1000s of times. I mean, when I'm out with it on a night, how many times do I push that button ?? A sh^t load I think.

 

[deersniper]

You can always just set it to constantly range. Then you won’t wear out the button.

If that pressure switch is taking up too much space I would take it off your hands for you.

 

[TheGerman]

WTS Radius 2500$. Free shipping.

 

[_Windrider_]

WTS Radius 2500$. Free shipping.

I’ll take it per our PM’s

 

[niteshooter]

I’m working a few miles from the Shiner Bock brewery. What’s that worth for making trade with The German. I think they still have some holiday special brews.

For $2500 It would be hard not to consider selling mine as well.

 

[wigwamitus]

As to under $2500 rifle mountable range finders, including some "golf quality" ones for under $1000 ... here's what I could find this morning with a quick google scan.

https://laserworks.rangefinder.biz/
"Laserworks" seems to have a couple of versions of the "LE-032" model, which is stated to work as far out as 700m and take up to 8000g of recoil. So, if it can do 700m in the day off reflective surface, it might do 700m at night off a grassy hill. And for 8000g of recoil, well that should work for 5.56, but not for 308. The cost is shown as $130 thru $230.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32822955064.html
BOBLOV seems to have exactly the same unit, called something else, but looks the same. I see it was on alibabba express, so guessing these are chinese ...
Shown for $146 on Amazon. No recoil rating.

And I see several other folks selling units with different names that look like the "laserworks" unit. That's not unusual for the Chinese to make something and then offer to "brand" it for many different distributors. We saw that for the PRG TC-50. Its got a different name in multiple countries for multiple distributors.

https://www.eurooptic.com/Newcon-Optik-Seeker-S-Laser-Rangefinder.aspx
Euro seems to have discounted the "S" model Newcon down to $2,218, so it might be worth a try.


https://nightvisionhome.com/product/amrf2200-advanced-modular-range-finder/
Nighvisionhome shows an armasight "in stock" for $2000 ... though I wouldn't count on it until I verified it. I knew one guy who had one of these several years back and he said it worked. But in those days, they were $2,500 and I never could prioritize that much to try one. One plus with these, is if you have one of the armasight compatible NV or Thermal sights, the output of this range finder will appear in the sight. Like a CO-LR-LRF or a Zeus or Apollo.

So, if I had to choose between all of these and a radius for $1000, I'd still go with the radius for $1000. I've used them outside for 2 years in all conditions, including ice, snow, rain, etc and had them retain zero for months, though I do check them before anything important. But I could have 2 radiae for the price of one newcon optik or one armasight, both of which are unknowns to me. The Newcon at least should have servicablity. I would doubt the Armasight would.

Then the RAPTAR ES, kicks in somewhere around $3k, though I've seen them for a few hundred less and many hundred more. They might be discontinued now, but are still available. They have 1500nm ranging lasers, so are much more powerful as rangers than all the other ones on this list. Though if you are getting it for the illuminator, you'll be disappointed. I've never used the illuminator on any of the 3 RAPTARs I owned, since I use them with thermal clipons or thermal scopes, exclusively. So never needed the illuminator.

 

[softcock]

https://laserworks.rangefinder.biz/
"Laserworks" seems to have a couple of versions of the "LE-032" model, which is stated to work as far out as 700m and take up to 8000g of recoil. So, if it can do 700m in the day off reflective surface, it might do 700m at night off a grassy hill. And for 8000g of recoil, well that should work for 5.56, but not for 308. The cost is shown as $130 thru $230.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32822955064.html
BOBLOV seems to have exactly the same unit, called something else, but looks the same. I see it was on alibabba express, so guessing these are chinese ...
Shown for $146 on Amazon. No recoil rating.

-
It's almost unusable , and I WISH they would get there shit together and UP there Game on that one Laserworks model . I tried working with it out hunting many times at night . ( There main design thinking is Good ) , but it needs attention payed to ( 3 ) Main Things .
the Laser Diode . The Pressure switch and pigtail . 'control' the brightness of the LED display screen for night .

Pro's ..
Right now . There main LRF design is sound idea . It's ' Small ' It's rugged solid aluminum body . Easy and Strong mounting system . Easy to move and to adjust ( Elev. windage) on the unit around to witness your desired set-up . It's easyPeezy to set it on Scan Mode, push button and walk the blinking beam into your range target using your pvs14 or NV scope , and with an easy read screen display .

Con's ..
If they would clean-up a few things up on that LRF . it would sell like Hotcakes for anyone varmint hunting at Night, and they would make some profit .
. The laser diode is Not acceptable past 300 yrd. on the very best of weather conditions at night . it is weak and not a focused beam past 250 yards into 300 yrd. . The best Ping ( just one Time ) I got was 440 yards on trees 'in the dark' . never tried ranging in Sunlight with it , seeing this the LRF would be worthless in bright sunlight conditions anyway .
. Need a way to turn brightness down on display screen at night .
. The pressure switch needs to be 'upped quality' and needs Plug in/out . . Not hardwired because if the pressure pad goes down you are not ranging .
.

 

[Wormydog1724]

Any progress on a “new” radius alternative?

 

[Maurygold]

Any progress on a “new” radius alternative?

No and it sucks

 

[wigwamitus]

I recently got one of these

External Laser Rangefinder with Picatinny Mount

This laser range finder features functions: Ranging, Fog, Horizontal distance, Fog+Horizontal distance, Speed. It is capable of a measurement range up to 1200m, great for hunting, spotting, searching, and other outdoor activities. Light weight mini laser infrared range finder Infrared Ray...

feraltexasoutdoors.com

Which I think is the same physical unit as the LE-032 we discussed above. I put it on my 22LR "barnyard defense" rifle, I use for night defense of the barnyard/chicken coops.

As to general impressions, it seems to range fine in my situation. In the Ozarks I really have to work to find a shot over 200yds and most of the critters I've killed around the coop have been under 100yds, so very different from KS !
But I have been able to range trees and cattle on a hill at 450yds ... and the results match my other range finders, lieca 3500, Steiner binos, etc. So as far as day or night ranging under 500yds, it seems fine. No where around here to test it farther out.
I definitely agree with Softcock on the pressure pad, having it "hard attached" and no "fire button" is a weakness. The screen is actually very similar to the Radius, with the blue text color, so I find it visible day and night.
So for $300-ish, I think its usable, at least inside 500yds and probably farther at night, but again, I can't test it farther.
Oh and this one is limited to 556 and under for recoil, so no 308 or 6.5cm etc.

There are supposedly more rifle mounted LRFs on the way, though most of them will be in the $9k+ ball park on price (US made, dumbed down version of military units). There were rumors of one commercial unit, sounded like a radius with AB with MSRP $4k, but updates on that one have been scarce lately.

 

[downcoyote]

Feral Texas Outdoors is selling a rangefinder that is priced real reasonable. I have no first hand experience of how it works. I just saw it on their website

 

[Evolution 9]

Off topic, @wigwamitus how do you like that light for NV aiming and illuminating?

 

[wigwamitus]

Oh, the XVl2-IRC ? Short answer, I like it ! Its not designed for illuminating yotes at 500yds or anything like that. But inside about 150yds, it is usable. The vis laser is usable as well. The white light is weak out beyond maybe 50yds. There is a "long throw" bezel that improves this. Though its a "replace the bezel" type of evolution, not a dial thing.
The part I like the least is the dial for selecting which elements are active, there is an "off" a "vis laser only" a "vis laser and white light" only ... an "ir laser only" and an "ir laser and ir illum" only option .. but dialing all those is a "get focused on the task and move a small flat dial with one finger" type of activity and it isn't super fast or super easy. So isn't something you could do instantly if needed - SO - that means you have to decide in advance, which setting you were going to use - set to that setting and plan to stick with it. So no switching from IR to vis quickly and easily. If you think you might wind up on vis, gotta start with vis and stick with vis.
But its small and light !
So a broader summary would be "Its great for what it is" !!! But its not a miniature dbal a4 !!

Alternatively, if you thought you would be usually going with the vis laser/light, then here's an option for about 1/4 the price of the surefire that just does green laser/white light. I have a surefire version of this on one of my glocks, but its 3 times as expensive.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/holosun-p-id-dual-green-laser-white-light-pistol.html


oh, and thanks to whowhatwherehownowbrowncow for the tip on the holosun !

 

[kirsch]

Feral Texas Outdoors is selling a rangefinder that is priced real reasonable. I have no first hand experience of how it works. I just saw it on their website

The stand-alone unit I saw on their site appears to be an off-shoot or basically the same unit wigwamitus mentions above and has been talked about as the LE-032 line of rangefinders. They are OK for the price, but unless someone is shooting subsonic or calibers with a lot of drop, it won't consistently range animals, such as coyotes, at distances where rangefinders are needed on many of the longer-range calibers. I tried to convince many scope manufacturers to produce a stand-alone thermal, but most add it directly to their night-vision or thermal scopes and make them LRF models vs selling a stand-alone unit.

 

[Awag1000]

I've looked into this quite a bit. I had the same initial question too. I took the liberty of reaching out to the manufacturers that make LRF modules so I can make my own. A large majority that make something small, accurate, and tough will not sell to civilians, the ones that do are prohibitively expensive for just the module. I would then have to design a housing around the module and either have it CNC machined or 3D printed (3D printing is the future IMO). Long story short, it would most likely cost me +$1500 and countless hours to make one example that would meet my standards. I'll still pursue this project but it'll take a lot of time to get a working final product. For now it seems we're stuck with handheld LRFs.

-Austin