Norma tac-22

[Kahrhart63]

Anyone having good luck with this ammo. All my precision guns have hated it till now. Have a rimx with 26 inch shilen select match barrel that is shooting it very well! Few flyers but is shooting some small groups at 100 yards. All but 2 under inch. 2 groups were 1 1/4. Lot of fun shooting on the cheap

 

[GIXXER2000]

Some of the guys at out local range are shooting it in there CZ 457's with good results. I have a Vudoo MTU and a CZ 457 MTR but it didn't work all that great. Having said that that was older ammo and theirs in newer and I probably need to test some.
I shoot Lapua Long Range in the Vudoo and it's a toss up between Center x and RWS Special Match in the CZ.

 

[Kahrhart63]

I have a bunch of old tac 22 and new. Was hoping that the new would shoot better in my rifles! Finally have one that shoots both old and new!

 

[6.5SH]

It is lower end RWS. Much like cheaper Eley and SK SKU's sometimes a particular lot does better than price would suggest.

 

[Kahrhart63]

This rimx hammered with a lot of r50 that none of my rifles liked! Thats why i tried the tac22 in it.

 

[XP1K]

Lgs stocked it for a while and an academy near me had it also. Supply seems to have dried up on me around my ao for now.

Been feeding my vudoo a steady diet of it for a couple years now. Some lots have been better than others but none were horrible. Best lot I had would shoot at or under an in at 100 yards most days. I like it.

 

[M_R_Woodard]

I have a 16 inch factory threaded 452 sporter barrel that loves it. It has shot some groups that put my match 22s to shame.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

My B14R likes it well enough, not super accurate but good enough for practicing out to 100 yards.

 

[Kahrhart63]

Will try 200 tomarrow. Will hang 3 inch steel and see how it goes.

 

[justin amateur]

It's about as accurate as you would expect,
from 8 cents a cartridge 22lr, right?

 

[BowChamp]

This is how my Vudoo shoots with Norma Tac-22 at 50yds.

 

[Kahrhart63]

Very impresive

 

[Sblzrd65]

It's an affordable option for 50 yd fun, doesn't group as well for 100 and out, but for closer, it's nice.

 

[30calDeath]

My 16" TacSol X-Ring VR really liked this stuff. I want more of it.

 

[Zolar]

Bought a 2 bricks of TAC-22 from Palmetto State about 2 months ago. The rounds were heavily lubricated, even on the cartridge case. Cases were actually greasy but with a clear lubricant. Only took about 20 rounds before I started to have buildup in the chamber and malfunctions feeding. It's almost like they were stored upside down in a hot environment and bullet lube ran down the case. If I wiped the cases down they were fed fine and the ammo was accurate. But what a PITA to wipe down each case. Both bricks were the same. Anyone else encountered this with TAC-22 and/or TAC-22 from PSA?

 

[Sniff]

My Bergara B14 doesn't like it. I brought a brick and will use the rest for speed steel or something like that. Absolutely no issues with feeding, firing or extracting, just doesn't shoot as accurately as other ammo at the same price in my rifle.
A crying shame because there's tons of it in the shops here.

I'll buy more, just not for the Bergara.

 

[thebeav]

I've shot 3 different lots in my At-One. Two black and one red.
My gun didn't like them. It was torture shooting up 1500 rounds......

 

[justin amateur]

To be expected from the bottom half of RWS production.
It's not intended to be benchrest competition ammunition.
For short range offhand use, it's more than adequate.
For punching center at 50 yards, there are better options.

 

[LuvDog]

some of the guys here love it in their CZs. in their ammo tests from budget to match ammo it ranked near the top for them.

 

[Kahrhart63]

This is the only rifle thats shoots it well. Other three hate it!!

 

[kl3309]

Bought a 2 bricks of TAC-22 from Palmetto State about 2 months ago. The rounds were heavily lubricated, even on the cartridge case. Cases were actually greasy but with a clear lubricant. Only took about 20 rounds before I started to have buildup in the chamber and malfunctions feeding. It's almost like they were stored upside down in a hot environment and bullet lube ran down the case. If I wiped the cases down they were fed fine and the ammo was accurate. But what a PITA to wipe down each case. Both bricks were the same. Anyone else encountered this with TAC-22 and/or TAC-22 from PSA?

Tac-22 has always been slimy. Reliability's even worse when it gets cold and the lube gets thick.

 

[Kahrhart63]

I dont know where you get slimy! Sk and lapua are way more slimy! But very good ammo! Not much lube on tac-22

 

[kl3309]

I dont know where you get slimy! Sk and lapua are way more slimy! But very good ammo! Not much lube on tac-22

I've still got a couple of bricks from a few years back. Every round is slick with lube from the nose of the bullet back to the rim of the case.

 

[Kahrhart63]

i have black box and red box. They are slicker than cci sv but nowhere near lapua or sk.

 

[Kahrhart63]

cold weather and hot weather affects the powder! Not the lube.

 

[Kahrhart63]

To be expected from the bottom half of RWS production.
It's not intended to be benchrest competition ammunition.
For short range offhand use, it's more than adequate.
For punching center at 50 yards, there are better options.

I agree totally! But to have practice ammo that shoots inch at 100 with occasional flyer is very fun and inexpensive

 

[Fig]

I've found it to be crap.

 

[Kahrhart63]

Would have agreed a few weeks ago!!

 

[ToddM]

Just depends, I feel like we're seeing more lot to lot variation across all ammo levels the last couple years. I've had one lot of Tac-22 that shoot amazing out of my 457 and JP AR, but have tried 2-3 lots since and it's just okay at best in any of my 22's. I'm not even sure across lots I like it as much as CCI Std. Doubt I'll keep trying it now that the price seems to have gone up.

It's not just the cheap stuff either, I've had two lots of Tenex in the last couple years that were total garbage. Prior that I'd had some great and not so great lots of Tenex but never total garbage.

The two I seem to hit lots that shoot really well have been SK Long Range and Eley Match. With Eley match being more consistent from lot to lot and SK LR.....some lots are amazing, others are junk. Across my guns I think Eley Match is probably the best performer in all of them on average and seems to show the least variation lot to lot.

That's across 4 guns: Volquartsen early deluxe 10/22, Kidd 10/22, CZ 457, JP AR-22. The volquartsen by far shoots average ammo much better than the other 3 and is much less lot picky. The JP is by far the worst, I've seen it go from 5" groups to very respectable groups at 100, most ammo it's lucky to break 3" but every now and then I'll find a lot of SK LR it loves. I've also had good luck with SK Rifle Match.

Real problem is, with 22 match ammo selling out so fast now, by the time you buy a brick, the lot is sold out usually before your shipment even arrives much less by the time you've tested it. So lot testing has basically become impossible on the general commercial market. You either have to send it off to Eley/Lapua test centers, or buy test lot bricks from a couple of the speciality stores that offer them, but then you are locked into only a couple ammo options your gun might not like.

 

[EotS]

In my 455, it shoots extremely well. Better than SKSV+.


However, my lot is probably 5yrs old. Can't speak for current production.

 

[Milo 2.5]

i have black box and red box. They are slicker than cci sv but nowhere near lapua or sk.

I'm going to have to disagree, the old black box was a train wreck with lube, new red box a dumpster fire, it's like they dipped the whole cartridge in oil.
After a range session, I'd just as soon not have to shower and change clothes, Screw tac 22

 

[kl3309]

cold weather and hot weather affects the powder! Not the lube.

Yeah, tell that to my Volquartsen Mambas or my 41s. Go below 55º F and they won't chamber Tac-22. No problems with any other hard-lubed .22.

 

[mikeshaw2]

It's about as accurate as you would expect,
from 8 cents a cartridge 22lr, right?

Actually, no. ...but it depends on whether your particular rifle likes it

Both my 457s love the stuff.

SK Rifle match is a RCH more accurate in both my rifles, but at triple the cost of TAC22 for just about the same results? I'll take the Norma thanks

M

 

[Islas82]

Shoots great out my CZ 457 MTR it compared to SK standard.

 

[justin amateur]

Sorry Mike, I don't subscribe to the idea that "my rifle likes".

There is always a cause for each effect.
Poor accuracy is always for a reason.
Be it wind, shooter, unstable setup, mechanical problems or cartridge defects,
there is/are always a factor(s) that results in trajectory spread.

No rifle can fix velocity spread.
No rifle can repair a poorly assembled cartridge,
or bullet damaged during manufacture.
Either the cartridges are uniformly well made with tight muzzle velocities
or the results on target will show strays and fliers.
My rifles "like" well made cartridges, brand is just lettering on the box.
If the cartridges have issues, so will my results.

 

[mikeshaw2]

Sorry Mike, I don't subscribe to the idea that "my rifle likes".

There is always a cause for each effect.
Poor accuracy is always for a reason.
Be it wind, shooter, unstable setup, mechanical problems or cartridge defects,
there is/are always a factor(s) that results in trajectory spread.

No rifle can fix velocity spread.
No rifle can repair a poorly assembled cartridge,
or bullet damaged during manufacture.
Either the cartridges are uniformly well made with tight muzzle velocities
or the results on target will show strays and fliers.
My rifles "like" well made cartridges, brand is just lettering on the box.
If the cartridges have issues, so will my results.

My CZs don't like Eley. Any of them.

My CZs DO like SK Rifle match and TAC22

It is all about what your rifle likes. Some rifles like certain ammo better than others.

When I bought my BMR I tested 12 different ammos. Now, it could be chamber dimensions, could be headspace, could be the barrel, regardless you could definitely tell what the rifle liked based on the groups.

M

 

[GIXXER2000]

Sorry Mike, I don't subscribe to the idea that "my rifle likes".

There is always a cause for each effect.
Poor accuracy is always for a reason.
Be it wind, shooter, unstable setup, mechanical problems or cartridge defects,
there is/are always a factor(s) that results in trajectory spread.

No rifle can fix velocity spread.
No rifle can repair a poorly assembled cartridge,
or bullet damaged during manufacture.
Either the cartridges are uniformly well made with tight muzzle velocities
or the results on target will show strays and fliers.
My rifles "like" well made cartridges, brand is just lettering on the box.
If the cartridges have issues, so will my results.

To his point I have both a Vudoo and CZ457 and with out question they both shoot the higher end Lapua and RWS ammo better. I am talking stuff that is at least $15 a box. It's just better made with tighter QC at the factory. The only exception I have found is 2 different lots of Lapua X-Act didn't worth a crap in either rifle Moving on to Eley Tenex and Black box match didn't great in either rifle . My Vudoo shoots Lapua Long Range best and the CZ shoots Center X , RWS 50 and RWS Spacial Match so close it a wash between those 3.

 

[mikeshaw2]

To his point I have both a Vudoo and CZ457 and with out question they both shoot the higher end Lapua and RWS ammo better. I am talking stuff that is at least $15 a box. It's just better made with tighter QC at the factory. The only exception I have found is 2 different lots of Lapua X-Act didn't worth a crap in either rifle Moving on to Eley Tenex and Black box match didn't great in either rifle . My Vudoo shoots Lapua Long Range best and the CZ shoots Center X , RWS 50 and RWS Spacial Match so close it a wash between those 3.

Anectode doesn't equal data, but more than a few CZ shooters like TAC22 just fine.

FWI I've been told TAC22 = RWS of some flavor and RWS is what the CZs are tested with at the factory

M

 

[GIXXER2000]

You are correct TAC22-RWS Target Rifle are basically the same. I can say the last 2 precision match at our local range I beat two others shooting TAC-22 while I was shooting RWS 50. My CZ jsu doesn't shoot the TAC-22 very well... to many flyers.

 

[justin amateur]

I used to think brand made the difference.
But brand didn't explain 3/8 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
It happened with everything from bulk Federal 36 grain cphp to Lapua X-Act.
What similarity does 4 cent a cartridge have with 45 cent a cartridge 22lr?
It took a ballistic chronograph and visual inspection of each cartridge chambered
to find the common factors that allowed such an occurrence.

I built a barrel block one piece test platform and removed my skills from the equation.
Tested during early morning calms to minimize wind effects.
Then recorded cartridge appearance, muzzle velocity and target results.
In order to obtain tight groups, the cartridges had to have an ES less than 30 fps for each 5 shots.
Cartridges had to be very uniform in appearance and dimensions.
No deformities, no dents, dings or assymetry for all 5 cartridges.
Wind had to be almost non-existent.

With those limitations it didn't matter if it was the Lilja, Shilen,
or the heavy factory CZ barrel that had been polished smooth by 2 plus cases of 22lr sent.
It wasn't the brand on the label that produced the similar trajectories
but the similarities of the cartridges and their velocities.

If the cartridges are not uniform/identical in appearance
and produce tight muzzle velocities, my results reek.
I've had CCI SV out shoot SK Rifle Match.
I've also had Tenex show an ES over 80 fps and spit strays.
The rifles don't care about labels, only cartridge quality matters.
Garbage in = garbage out.
Those variations in lot quality as they roll off the assembly line are the real issues.

 

[ToddM]

I believe when most folks say their rimfire "likes" a particular ammo or lot, it's likely has more to do with headspace, chamber, barrel, firing pin, twist etc. than the ammo. Things that are gun specific, now perhaps those gun specific things also impact ES/SD, say for example headspace and firing pin shape/protrusion having an impact on reliable/consistent ignition.

For example I have a lot of SK LR that will shoot really nice groups out of my CZ, but horrible out of my volquartsen. Same day, same conditions, and vice versa a lot of Eley Match that shoots amazing out of my volquartsen won't shoot great out of the CZ. There's more to how well a particular ammo shoots than just the ammo itself. In decades of testing ammo, I've never found one brand/lot that shot the best (or even close to the best) across all my rimfire guns, which says to me there is a gun specific component as well.

I do find it an interesting experiment though so I think down the road I will chrono across guns/loads and see what happens. I'm curious to see if certain combinations of guns/ammo/lots etc. impact ES/SD. of a particular ammo. My guess is you are right, in that in a particular gun the best ES/SD probably is the best performer (assuming similar bullet quality/deformation etc.) I'm also guessing that the gun itself is going to impact the ES/SD of a particular ammo/lot significantly across guns.

 

[Kahrhart63]

While i hear your argument. I still see flaws in what you are saying. I have been shooting rimfire since early 70’s. Competed for years with many many thousands of rounds down the mod 52. Have been playing with all the best all my life. I do know that all the rifles i have played with shoot different ammo very good! Some like r50, some like eley, some lime lapua. One thing i do know is you have to find what each rifle likes. I wish i could have one ammo and lot that all my rifles shot well! It will never happen!!

 

[justin amateur]

I understand your views.
They were mine, until I had a problem.
I had read that every rifle likes what it likes, so I went looking
My 455 Lilja absolutely "loved" Wolf ME, made by SK.
Sub inch groups consistently, 100 yards off the bench, box after box.
Absolutely amazing results....I found the brand my rifle "likes".
Until it didn't. What happened? Ran out of that lot number.
Next case of Wolf ME was 1.5 to 2 inches for 5 shots at 100 yards. Strays, hot, weak cartridges.
Same brand, same label, different lot number.
The cartridge quality was not the same.
So I went looking again. RWS R50 was the next label that produced consistent trajectories,
for a couple bricks, but the next brick from the same case, didn't. WTF?
The same thing happened with SK Pistol Match, then Eley Match,
followed by CenterX and Midas+ and then Tenex.
All those different brands produced consistent trajectories,
but then open a new brick, and the results went downhill.
Label meant nothing. If the cartridges lack tight muzzle velocities
and uniformly well made cartridges, label is not a guarantee of results.
My rifles don't care about who makes the 22lr cartridges.
Only that they are made to saami/cip specs,
have tight mv's and minimum cartridge defects.
Any brand that does so, produces similar results at 50, 100 and 200 yards.
I documented the chrony numbers and targets for 4 years.
It wasn't brand name that the rifles needed, it was cartridge quality.

If you believe that all cartridges are identical as they roll off the assembly line,
then go ahead and "find the brand y'er rifle likes".

But if you understand that rimfire ammunition is mass produced,
subject to variations in components, chemistry, assembly and technician input
then you know that no two cartridges are identical and quality varies moment by moment.
What comes off the assembly line in the morning
is going to be different than that made later that day.

Find the brand doesn't work.
Find the cartridges that are made properly, does.
That's why even cheap bulk ammo can produce amazing results on occasion.
Those particular cartridges produced similar muzzle velocities
and were uniformly well made....until you catch an average quality cartridge, again.

 

[J.J.chago]

I use it in my Vudoo for practice to save my sk and lapua. no problems other than some flyers every now and then

 

[Rippey715]

I've been shooting it for a year in my Savage mkii at matches. It seems to group ok for positional shooting. But after trying to shoot a match in 20f or lower temps yesterday it was way too inconsistent. In the morning I grabbed three boxes, pulled 5 rounds out of each, mixed them in my pocket and then loaded them in 5 rd mags to shoot over a MS chrono.

AVG: 928FPS! ES: 102 SD: 27. Earlier this summer when I ran a whole box over the chrono it was 1033 Avg vs their claimed 1080.

Also starting getting extraction issues about every 3rd stage which I will fully attribute to how cold it was and any waxy or oil build up in the chamber. Put about 175 rds through yesterday and it was pretty cold so this was toward the extreme use case scenario, but still will not be relying on the Norma anymore. Last couple lots have not seemed as good as what I was getting a year ago. It can be good but it can also be bad, which if it was consistently one or the other would be less frustrating.