Disregard above statement...nosler custom competition are the best bullets ever made in the history of mankind!!! Nothing to see here. Carry on.
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Range Report Nosler custom competition .... Buyer beware
- Thread starter glockdan78
- Start date
If that's the kind of junk they put out as "competition bullets" I would hate to see the quality control on everything else. Very well written response to his email. I've been concerned on how quality control is right now with everyone trying to keep up with demand.
My thoughts as well.
I use several different Nosler CC's and never had this issue... I will keep an eye out now.
just ran my thumb nail against some Berger VLD's and SMK's. I got no fractures, fissures, hairline splits...Berger's are beautiful. I'll probably replace the diamonds in my wife's rings with some VLD's...she would never notice.
I have shot many K NCC 77s and have never noticed these. Me thinks QC is at a low with demand at a high.
Yes, I'm sure it is not a normal feature for their cc bullets to have deformations. What pisses me off is that they try to pass it of as normal, like I haven't been reloading for 10 yrs.
I shoot Nosler 77gr Custom Comps in my AR...they've always shot great.
I did get 5 boxes of 77gr CCs from Cabelas earlier this week, so upon seeing this thread I cracked a box open (Lot # DK18F-12-1/132814751328) and sure as shit, there be longitudinal lines on on the bullets at the ogive.
I can just barely catch a fingernail on some of them, on some of the bullets.
Looking more closely at two different older lots of 77gr CCs I have (one from fall 2012, the other a couple years older than that) I do see some faint vertical lines on the bullets, but they are 1. less visible, and 2. not able to be felt.
Here's a crappy out of focus picture, taken with a Rebel XT digital, that best shows the lines:
I'm probably gonna shoot one box and see how they do...if they perform as my previous lots have I'll rock on, if they shoot like shit I'll get Nosler involved to replace them.
Thanks for the heads up, OP.
I did get 5 boxes of 77gr CCs from Cabelas earlier this week, so upon seeing this thread I cracked a box open (Lot # DK18F-12-1/132814751328) and sure as shit, there be longitudinal lines on on the bullets at the ogive.
I can just barely catch a fingernail on some of them, on some of the bullets.
Looking more closely at two different older lots of 77gr CCs I have (one from fall 2012, the other a couple years older than that) I do see some faint vertical lines on the bullets, but they are 1. less visible, and 2. not able to be felt.
Here's a crappy out of focus picture, taken with a Rebel XT digital, that best shows the lines:
I'm probably gonna shoot one box and see how they do...if they perform as my previous lots have I'll rock on, if they shoot like shit I'll get Nosler involved to replace them.
Thanks for the heads up, OP.
I've shot a good bit of them in 308 diameter and have a box of 7mm 168's I've yet to do anything with. They were great in 30 cal and always looked/performed identical to the Sierra bullets but were a bit easier on the wallet. I'm glad they stood by them, some of the issues with Nosler could have stemmed from the large fire they had a few years back.
I just received 1k ncc 155 gn .308 bullets they have the same cracks. Unfortunately for me it's all I could find and was eager to shoot the new rifle. So far they are shooting ok but not as good as the smk 175 I put through it. Still working up a load we will see what happens. But for right now I'm just happy to be tossing lead down range.
I just received 1k ncc 155 gn .308 bullets they have the same cracks. Unfortunately for me it's all I could find and was eager to shoot the new rifle. So far they are shooting ok but not as good as the smk 175 I put through it. Still working up a load we will see what happens. But for right now I'm just happy to be tossing lead down range.
The Big questions is, How do they shoot? You don't know anything about whether what you have noticed is a cosmetic defect or a true accuracy degrading defect until you do.
This is pretty common. I've got some Sierra MatchKings that have very faint lines on them (and others that don't), and some hand pressed benchrest bullets where they are even more visible. They shoot fine. I've never seen them where I could catch a fingernail on them though.
The ones I had we're considerably worse than you would ever expect to see. I would compare the surface to the mag ring of my S&B 5-25.
i use them as fouler bullets and for case forming i never could get ncc's to group worth a crap.
FWIW
I started out life as a short range BR shooter who has made hundreds of thousands of custom made bullets. The "fractures" are not cracks. They are folds and are in every bullet made. Some are just easier to see on some bullets. Think of a Japanese fan being folded close. Same thing happens with jackets. They are formed when the core seated jacket is run into the point up die. The folds are controlled by the metallurgy of the jacket, jacket thickness and to a larger degree the amount of lube on the jacket. Anyone ever dent the shoulders when FL sizing a case with lube on the shoulder? Same happens with bullets. The folds have no affect on the BC or the bullet flight. Only the size and shape of the meplat have a measurable affect on the BC of the bullet.
I started out life as a short range BR shooter who has made hundreds of thousands of custom made bullets. The "fractures" are not cracks. They are folds and are in every bullet made. Some are just easier to see on some bullets. Think of a Japanese fan being folded close. Same thing happens with jackets. They are formed when the core seated jacket is run into the point up die. The folds are controlled by the metallurgy of the jacket, jacket thickness and to a larger degree the amount of lube on the jacket. Anyone ever dent the shoulders when FL sizing a case with lube on the shoulder? Same happens with bullets. The folds have no affect on the BC or the bullet flight. Only the size and shape of the meplat have a measurable affect on the BC of the bullet.
Thank you Dave. I'll add a bit here to say, yes, Dave is absolutely correct in what he describes. I've shot literally hundreds of thousands of bullets with very visible fissures like these, and it doesn't effect accuracy in the slightest. It's a perfectly natural result of forming the ogive on a jacketed bullet, and is always present to some degree, if you only take time to look closely enough.
I'd hazard a guess here that the only way you'd be able to effectively prevent these from appearing during the final forming process would be to use a jacket material that was so soft as to give fouling as bad as lead, and that probably wouldn't have the structural integrity to withstand its flight to the target.
I'd hazard a guess here that the only way you'd be able to effectively prevent these from appearing during the final forming process would be to use a jacket material that was so soft as to give fouling as bad as lead, and that probably wouldn't have the structural integrity to withstand its flight to the target.
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
+1 on this theory. The customer service exchange appears to be damage control. At least they are being honest about it. They could have just sent the replacement bullets and called it day. Cabelas isn't exactly the type of place I would buy reloading bullets. It would be one of the few places to unload seconds without much trouble. Why didn't you just take them back to the store and ask for a full refund? Why go to all the trouble working with the manufacturer as you mentioned?
Well I must say, despite my disappointment in the cc bullets, Mason/Nosler extended me a very nice offer of replacing my bullets with any other bullets they had in stock. I chose some hunting bullets which have always served me well. Nosler made it right in my opinion.
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Deleted member 10043
Guest
So your OP/Thread was premature and now we have this thread entitled Buyer Beware? This is how rumors get started and a few years from now it is going to be common knowledge that the original said bullet tumbles at 100 yards due to harmonics or whatever the latest bullshit is out there at that time.
What the fuck was premature about reporting the facts? The bullets were bad, they admitted it and there are others out there floating around obviously.
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Deleted member 10043
Guest
The only fact I see is you bought a couple of boxes of seconds from a big box sporting good store and Nosler offered to send you replacement "firsts" based solely on your own hand picked sample of bullets sent to them. Only their firsts aren't exactly up to your standards to begin with so here comes your fact pattern. Only to end up with hunting bullets instead. So, your end of email chain isn't exactly true is it? Either they are providing "shitty customer service" or they "made it right". Which one is it? The quality of their customer competition bullets appear to be secondary to what you got out of them. I don't see one thing Nosler did wrong. They did exactly what they promised.
I shot 20 of mine today...they performed about the same as my old lot of 77gr CCs.
I say "about the same" because I kinda suck driving a gas gun, especially for consistency, but the new and old CCs both gave me roughly 0.7" 5-shot groups at 100yd.
I say "about the same" because I kinda suck driving a gas gun, especially for consistency, but the new and old CCs both gave me roughly 0.7" 5-shot groups at 100yd.
Says the guy who has forgotten more about precision bullet making than most of us will ever know in our lifetimes.
Guess who I'm believing...........
You all who think those bullets were defective might want to reconsider who it is you are arguing with.
I actually sent both complete boxes to him. Both sperate lots made several days apart. Cabelas is not sent seconds from nosler. These were deep grooves that got past their QC
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Deleted member 10043
Guest
Yeah, I overlooked that loophole. Well since you bring it up they appeared to even have them picked up for you and sent to them. I don't know what exactly transpired from the time you bought the merchandise until you posted undated private emails from the manufacturer but I can plainly see Nosler did nothing wrong and in exchange all they got was a feel around.
Hah, OK buddy. Maybe you can call mason and he'll sell you the shitty bullets they received from me. I'm through with this thread. Buyer beware.
Edited to state....at the end of the day I received excellent service from mason but check your boxes of cc.
Edited to state....at the end of the day I received excellent service from mason but check your boxes of cc.
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What kind of bothers me with this thread is that a customer is telling a bullet manufacturer that he doesn’t know anything about the manufacturing of bullets. Based on the physical appearance of the bullets that came out of a box, you are claiming that you know how they are going to fly. Compressible flow aerodynamics is a complex subject. My question is, how did they shoot? Some other people have asked this question but it hasn’t been answered.
I’ve seen similar threads where people complain that their “Match” bullets weights vary +/- 0.3 grains in a 175 grain bullet and that “fill in company name here” quality control sucks. Granted, that bullet posted sub .5moa groups, but they should have tighter controls on their product. Those not familiar with manufacturing, less than a 1% variance in manufacture is pretty damn good.
At the end of the day the professionals have chimed in and said you have a visually defective product that does not have any impact on function or performance. They replaced your bullets because you did not like how they looked. That sounds like good customer service to me. But for those who have noticed this on their bullets and have shot them… please let us know if this will cause my gun to blow up in my face or take my 1/4 MOA groups and open them up to 3 moa groups. Otherwise what is the issue here?
I’ve seen similar threads where people complain that their “Match” bullets weights vary +/- 0.3 grains in a 175 grain bullet and that “fill in company name here” quality control sucks. Granted, that bullet posted sub .5moa groups, but they should have tighter controls on their product. Those not familiar with manufacturing, less than a 1% variance in manufacture is pretty damn good.
At the end of the day the professionals have chimed in and said you have a visually defective product that does not have any impact on function or performance. They replaced your bullets because you did not like how they looked. That sounds like good customer service to me. But for those who have noticed this on their bullets and have shot them… please let us know if this will cause my gun to blow up in my face or take my 1/4 MOA groups and open them up to 3 moa groups. Otherwise what is the issue here?
I tried some 69gr. years ago. I found OAL after seating them was as much as .135. After talking to them on three different times I was told the same thing. They said they were not as concerned with tolerances on the CC bullets as they are with the hunting bullets. I have not wasted my money on Nosler Bullets in 4 years.
I've had good results with Noslers, both the hunting and target varieties. I'm not so much concerned with slight variations in COL (mine usually vary a few hundredths). Wrongside was there really over an eighth of an inch difference in COL??
When it's all said and done, its what they do on paper or game that matters.
I'll continue to use Nosler products!Big Brown just dropped off a box of 190s,and these things are gorgeous!
I lined about a third of the box up and went over them with a 120 lumen Surefire and a magnifying glass and all I can see are the little hairline scratches from rubbing on each other in the box.
If I get any kind of decent performance at all from these, Brownells will be getting hit hard on another order!
Have any of you guys tried these in a 1/10 5R?
I have a 20" FP10 that has done sub 1/2" at 100 several times with Federal Premium.
The only powder I can get right now is Winchester 760, but they have a listed load for that bullet with a pretty wide swing from min to max, so hopefully I can find something in there that will work.
Has anyone tried this combo?
I lined about a third of the box up and went over them with a 120 lumen Surefire and a magnifying glass and all I can see are the little hairline scratches from rubbing on each other in the box.
If I get any kind of decent performance at all from these, Brownells will be getting hit hard on another order!
Have any of you guys tried these in a 1/10 5R?
I have a 20" FP10 that has done sub 1/2" at 100 several times with Federal Premium.
The only powder I can get right now is Winchester 760, but they have a listed load for that bullet with a pretty wide swing from min to max, so hopefully I can find something in there that will work.
Has anyone tried this combo?
CSI - Police
I tend to disagree as I'm in the police here in Australia and also shoot military/police rifle competitions. With the 155g Nosler Competition Bullets I can shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yards and 1" MOA at 300 yards in perfect weather with my 1942 1903A3 US Springfield. This bullet won me the State Championships with my 1942 K98 (chambered in 308) with 6 inch groups at 300 yards with OPEN SIGHTS in the timed event!
They were so good I bought a box of 1000 so to keep batch consistency.
The proof is in the medal I won. Will also use these bullets in the Australian National Championships for Military/Police Rifle in October.
I tend to disagree as I'm in the police here in Australia and also shoot military/police rifle competitions. With the 155g Nosler Competition Bullets I can shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yards and 1" MOA at 300 yards in perfect weather with my 1942 1903A3 US Springfield. This bullet won me the State Championships with my 1942 K98 (chambered in 308) with 6 inch groups at 300 yards with OPEN SIGHTS in the timed event!
They were so good I bought a box of 1000 so to keep batch consistency.
The proof is in the medal I won. Will also use these bullets in the Australian National Championships for Military/Police Rifle in October.
I tend to disagree as I'm in the police here in Australia and also shoot military/police rifle competitions. With the 155g Nosler Competition Bullets I can shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yards and 1" MOA at 300 yards in perfect weather with my 1942 1903A3 US Springfield. This bullet won me the State Championships with my 1942 K98 (chambered in 308) with 6 inch groups at 300 yards with OPEN SIGHTS in the timed event!
They were so good I bought a box of 1000 so to keep batch consistency.
The proof is in the medal I won. Will also use these bullets in the Australian National Championships for Military/Police Rifle in October.
I tend to agree that the Noslers Comps are great as I'm in the police here in Australia and also shoot military/police rifle competitions. With the 155g Nosler Competition Bullets I can shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yards and 1" MOA at 300 yards in perfect weather with my 1942 1903A3 US Springfield. This bullet won me the State Championships with my 1942 K98 (chambered in 308) with 6 inch groups at 300 yards with OPEN SIGHTS in the timed event!
They were so good I bought a box of 1000 so to keep batch consistency.
The proof is in the medal I won. Will also use these bullets in the Australian National Championships for Military/Police Rifle in October.
I finally got to try them today!
I loaded them up with federal brass and primers and 46gr of Win 760.
At 100 yards, they were stringing down to the lower right at about 2.5-3 inches.
I brought another load with me which was the same except the bullet was a Sierra BTHP in 168.
It surprised me my grouping nicely at 100 with one shot at absolute dead center and the other 4 grouping at .856
Any suggestions on tightening up the group with the 190's?
Just got back from trying out nosler 175 cc. I have to say they are the worst bullets I have used yet! I have a remmy 700 20in. 308
With smk and varget 44 grains I get .5 groups all day. With the nosler I was lucky to get 3 inch groups I even tried h4895 and got the same. I feel so ripped off. anyone want to buy 200?
With smk and varget 44 grains I get .5 groups all day. With the nosler I was lucky to get 3 inch groups I even tried h4895 and got the same. I feel so ripped off. anyone want to buy 200?
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I have just the opposite experience with them. They shoot about as well as Sierra 175's in my rifles. Yesterday, I shot two, 5 shot groups with 41.0 of 8208 XBR in Federal brass. My groups @ 100 yards were .46" and .49" shot out of a 22" GAP 10. The 175 Nosers also shoot fairly well (.6-.8 MOA) out of my two bolt guns.
Does anyone know what could cause the nosler to fly different than smk? Side by side today I was grouping the skm and the nosler was a good 3 inches. Could it be my gun just does not like them or do I need to find a new ocw for the nosler? I never had any problems with honaday and pmc 147 gives me better groups. I had high hopes for the nosler!
Could be worse, I have almost 400 of the 168 grainers left!
My 20" Hart bbl hates the cc's.
Shoots the partitions better. Uhg.
Haven't tried the xbr powder yet, guess I'll have to find some.
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
How about instead of making a general statement you eliminate in your posts that you cleaned your rilfe before a new load and shit like that. No offense, but you need to let us know you eliminated all other possible reasons before shitting on the manufacturer of the bullet. Like let us know you are getting .5" groups @100 yards with SMK and 3" groups at 600 yards with Nosler. That would be beneficial.
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