Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

[JSTARSZ]

I was loading up some Nolser 175 Custom Competition Bullets for my DPMS SASS so I was ensuring that they were below 2.810" overall magazine length which came out to 2.25 at the OGIVE. I finished loading up one box and opened another box. I am always careful from one box to the next to check the overall lengths at first. The first one was 2.820," WTF, so I checked the OGIVE, checked in at 2.25" same as the first fifty.

When I reduced the length to to get below 2.810" it dropped the OGIVE to 2.23...so, I started checking the bullets in the box and they varied from 1.255" to 1.232"...so I had to start measuring every bullet in the 250 count box to get the bullets lumped into groups.

The bullets are very inconsistent at best and down right sorry at quality control at worst.

Has anyone seen or had issues with this from Nosler before?

I have loaded Nolser's before and worked pretty well. I was going to try these but now it makes me just want to quit these and go back to Sierra 175's.

 

[Grumpy61]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

not uncommon for any manufacturer, measure from base to ogive, that is where they should be the same length

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

If this was for a bolt gun it would be zero issue I would go by the OGIVE and move on; however, when you load for a 308 magazine fed rifle the bullets have to be consistently below 2.810" and these bullets, due to the length inconsistencies, made the overall lengths in some bullets unusable for the Magpul magazine. If I loaded them as is they would jam in the magazine. I also tried the long bullets out in the magazine to test the theory and yes, they jam the magazine

 

[hntbambi]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

That's how Noslers are. It's not just their .308" CC bullets, but all of their bullets. I shoot the 6.5mm 140 gr CC, .223" 80 gr CC, and .338" 250 gr AB, If you buy the cosmetic blems I have seen a larger variance in them. I don't buy one box at a time, I get a bunch then sort base to ogive length and load them in batches.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

If you are loading close to the lands it makes it mighty hard to work with. This is my last box of Nosler Competition bullets. I will shoot them and then switch back to Nosler or go Berger. This is the second box of 250's I have had and the first box was very consistent - the second, not so much.

 

[MALLARD]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grumpy61</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not uncommon for any manufacturer, measure from base to ogive, that is where they should be the same length
</div></div>

i agree but variations in bullet OAL are going to have an effect on accuracy, so its not desired

 

[High Binder]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

JSTARS, the reason you're seeing inconsistent numbers is because you're measuring the OAL (from boat tail to the meplat) of the bullet itself which isn't important. Measure from the bottom (boat tail end) to the ogive and you'll see they're consistent.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JSTARS, the reason you're seeing inconsistent numbers is because you're measuring the OAL (from boat tail to the meplat) of the bullet itself which isn't important. Measure from the bottom (boat tail end) to the ogive and you'll see they're consistent. </div></div> I get that and I always measure from the OGIVE as well as COAL. If I am wrong I am wrong but when I am loading for a magazine feed weapon that requires it to be below 2.810" COAL then it matters because if is too long then that it jams in the magazine. I can make the rounds fit below 2.810" but I have to change the settings on my Redding Micrometer die to get them below the 2.810 and that does change the OGIVE measurements. What I have done is measure the bullets and put them in piles. Then I can set my micrometer for certain lengths of bullets to get them to fit the magazine. I could just load away but what I would find is the OGIVE would be consistent but the OAL would cause the rounds to jam in the magazine because they would vary from 2.805 - 2.830" and that won't work. It is just annoying.

 

[pjparker]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

You have just discovered why the Nosler CC's are not on anybody's short-list of bullets to buy for serious precision shooting/competition. There are just too many other choices out there that are better. More expensive, yes, but better is better.

Paul

 

[High Binder]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JSTARS, the reason you're seeing inconsistent numbers is because you're measuring the OAL (from boat tail to the meplat) of the bullet itself which isn't important. Measure from the bottom (boat tail end) to the ogive and you'll see they're consistent. </div></div> I get that and I always measure from the OGIVE as well as COAL. If I am wrong I am wrong but when I am loading for a magazine feed weapon that requires it to be below 2.810" COAL then it matters because if is too long then that it jams in the magazine. I can make the rounds fit below 2.810" but I have to change the settings on my Redding Micrometer die to get them below the 2.810 and that does change the OGIVE measurements. What I have done is measure the bullets and put them in piles. Then I can set my micrometer for certain lengths of bullets to get them to fit the magazine. I could just load away but what I would find is the OGIVE would be consistent but the OAL would cause the rounds to jam in the magazine because they would vary from 2.805 - 2.830" and that won't work. It is just annoying. </div></div>

I hear that, I've been there many times too. One thing I've noticed is that the meplat on everything from Lapuas - SMKs and obviously custom Comps are always shaped different and inconsistent. I've never messed with it but one thing you might consider is picking up a meplat trimmer (see below link) this thing would uniform all of your meplats and as long as the ogive measurements are uniform, you'd have 100% uniform bullets after trimming the meplats.

http://www.bullettipping.com/

Just a thought.

 

[Edo1]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JSTARS, the reason you're seeing inconsistent numbers is because you're measuring the OAL (from boat tail to the meplat) of the bullet itself which isn't important. Measure from the bottom (boat tail end) to the ogive and you'll see they're consistent. </div></div> I get that and I always measure from the OGIVE as well as COAL. If I am wrong I am wrong but when I am loading for a magazine feed weapon that requires it to be below 2.810" COAL then it matters because if is too long then that it jams in the magazine. I can make the rounds fit below 2.810" but I have to change the settings on my Redding Micrometer die to get them below the 2.810 and that does change the OGIVE measurements. What I have done is measure the bullets and put them in piles. Then I can set my micrometer for certain lengths of bullets to get them to fit the magazine. I could just load away but what I would find is the OGIVE would be consistent but the OAL would cause the rounds to jam in the magazine because they would vary from 2.805 - 2.830" and that won't work. It is just annoying. </div></div>
I hear that, I've been there many times too. One thing I've noticed is that the meplat on everything from Lapuas - SMKs and obviously custom Comps are always shaped different and inconsistent. I've never messed with it but one thing you might consider is picking up a meplat trimmer (see below link) this thing would uniform all of your meplats and as long as the ogive measurements are uniform, you'd have 100% uniform bullets after trimming the meplats.

http://www.bullettipping.com/

Just a thought. </div></div>
+1 on the trimmer taking care of your problem. Sinclair sells one that looks like it would do a good job.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

I'm not sure I see the big deal... nothing different than trying to load 77s to mag length in a .223 AR - and it has little or nothing to do with whether the box says Nosler, Sierra or Berger on it in my experience.

You simply shorten up your cartridge OAL by a certain amount to account for the max expected variance in bullet OAL. Adjust to something shorter like 2.800" or even a fuzz less like 2.790" and carry on... I presume you're already jumping them a fair bit already; an extra 10-20 thou is probably not going to make a huge difference in performance.

While meplat uniforming could in theory be one way of dealing with the problem, personally I'd consider it a gross waste of time and effort for a gas gun in general, and especially for mag-length loads.

YMMV,

Monte

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

Monte, you are very correct I could do that very easily and just relie on the OGIVE reading. It was just very surprising to me to see such a wide variance in the bullets. I load Sierra 175 BTHP and also 178 AMAX and I did a lot of checking and they only varied no more than .05" or so from the highest to lowest. These Nosler's were .23" off from each other. That seems like a huger variance to me. If they are going to say Custom Competition bullets have some level of quality control. And, these may or may not cause a huge difference in POA/POI but then again it may. When I pay 30 bucks a box of 100 for something that is supposed to be for competition; come on give me the value here.

I think I shall go back to Sierra and Hornady AMAX which by the way measured really tight today in their variances.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

High Binder, thanks for the link - that looks like something that I will give a try to.

 

[Pusher591]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

Hornady bthp with .530 BC

and be done with it

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hornady bthp with .530 BC

and be done with it
</div></div> once I shoot up my AMAX's I am going to give it a try. Well, I will probably buy a box and give it a try before I use all the AMAX's.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load Sierra 175 BTHP and also 178 AMAX and I did a lot of checking and they only varied no more than .05" or so from the highest to lowest. These Nosler's were .23" off from each other. That seems like a huger variance to me. </div></div>

I presume you're missing a zero in those measurements...

If it seems like too much to you and you feel better trying something else... thats probably what you need to do. My experience with various brands of open-tipped match bullets is that from one lot to the next, 20-30 thou variance in tip length is not uncommon - regardless of brand. Some batches are better or worse than others... Bergers *generally* have seemed more consistent, but even so I've seen an occasional yellow box of bullets that looked a little sketchy

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load Sierra 175 BTHP and also 178 AMAX and I did a lot of checking and they only varied no more than .05" or so from the highest to lowest. These Nosler's were .23" off from each other. That seems like a huger variance to me. </div></div>

I presume you're missing a zero in those measurements...

If it seems like too much to you and you feel better trying something else... thats probably what you need to do. My experience with various brands of open-tipped match bullets is that from one lot to the next, 20-30 thou variance in tip length is not uncommon - regardless of brand. Some batches are better or worse than others... Bergers *generally* have seemed more consistent, but even so I've seen an occasional yellow box of bullets that looked a little sketchy

</div></div> yes, I am missing the zero - I always get that wrong...math in public - not so much. I agree with you and I have spent a good part of the weekend measuring lots of the 30 cal bullets to get an understadning of what I was actually seeing. I have not come to any particular conclusion except that Nosler CC bullets seem to be the worst. The Hornady 178 AMAX were actually pretty good and Sierra 175's had some variance but not near as bad as the Noslers.

 

[1lnbrdg]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

I haven't shot Sierra's in about 7 yrs. The Nosler CC bullets work fine.

Funny thing was, I quit shooting Sierra's because they were so different in length and the Noslers weren't at that time.

Now I load for comparator seating depth and don't worry about OAL as long as they are all short enough to fit the mag.

I think you might be headed down a slippery slope seating the bullets to different distances. That could cause different pressures/velocity issues. I'd try to seat them all the same.

As an aside, I've found that for most bullets, jumping .020 - .060 the groups are better than just a hair off the lands in all of my rifles.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

I got an email from Nosler last night and they want me to send the bullets back to them and they will replace them. They are going to send me another box so I shall see if I just got a lemon box. I am not going to load anymore out of that box.

 

[CaliShooter]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

Soundds like you got bullets from different lots put into the same box.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaliShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Soundds like you got bullets from different lots put into the same box.</div></div> that could be since it was a 250 count box but Nosler is making good on it based on my discussions with them. I hope this is a tighter quality box. I have Nosler 77 Comp bullets and I checked them the other day and found they were relatively consistent within reason..

 

[roggom]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

I was just loading some Noscc 168's yesterday and was amazed at how consistent the weights were. Just the last 10 I had left over, 7 weighed 168.2, (2) 168.1 and (1) 168.4. After reading this post I measured them and they ranged from 1.200 to 1.209. For me its a non issue as I am running a bolt gun OAL 2.800 with max 2.830. I recently switched because they group just as good as the SMK and about $8 cheaper than SMK's.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: roggom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was just loading some Noscc 168's yesterday and was amazed at how consistent the weights were. Just the last 10 I had left over, 7 weighed 168.2, (2) 168.1 and (1) 168.4. After reading this post I measured them and they ranged from 1.200 to 1.209. For me its a non issue as I am running a bolt gun OAL 2.800 with max 2.830. I recently switched because they group just as good as the SMK and about $8 cheaper than SMK's. </div></div> am I reading that correctly that after you loaded you had a COAL of 2.80" - 2.830" if so, that is huge variation but what is the measurement from the OGIVE?

 

[roggom]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

No, what I meant is that since I load at 2.800 I have some enough room to accommodate the variance in meplat up to 2.830. I am still trying to wrap my brain around this bullet thing, as the weights are damn close. I wonder how the tolerances can be so tight in weight but not size. Maybe the way they fall into the swager, or their trimming? Yes, I do think about this kind of stuff, sad really.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

I talked to Nosler after I sent the bullets back and they said the bullets were way out of spec and are going to send me a new box to try out. I will give the new ones a try and see how it works out before going any further with this bullet.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: Nosler Inconsistent 175 BTHP Competition Bullets

A Meplat trimmer has eliminated this issue for me. It may reduce the BC slightly but they "fly" more consistently rather than those with ragged finish on the Meplat. Groups over 300 yards have tightened up measurably.

I buy Nosler C/C's by box of 1,000 in 168 and 250 in 175 grs. So far I have found no issues with any of them.