Nostalgia has me longing for an MP5 or Clone . Is this another Sig210 moment?

[FatBoy]

So over the last couple of years I have had the pleasure of shooting some decent PPCs. The B&Ts being right up there, however I have always liked the looks and maybe buy into the legends of the MP5.

With the semi-recent release of the SP5 and the SP5K I am coming back around to looking at these again but I haven’t “pull the trigger” because as shameful as it may sound I have never shot an MP5. Just never had the opportunity so I don’t have any real experience to compare.

This takes me back to my purchase of a Sig210. Never shot one. Always loved the looks. Historic reliability and accuracy, so I went and bought an American version (I know, but it’s damn nice) but while I was in the store I made the mistake of picking up a CZ Shadow II, which ultimately I should have bought as it fit my needs better. Is this MP5 the same scenario…

With that out there, is the MP5 or it’s recent clones still a good value, and are they still one of the top dogs compared to the new platforms?

Is it really worth going with a legit H&K in today’s climate or does a PTR fit the bill? If Not, what are the clones to stay away from?

Is the B&T APC or even the GMB9 a better option these days? If so, why? Trigger? Mags? Parts availability? Mag functionality with my side arm is a nice option but I have seen feed issues with most platforms that use the Glock mags.

I’m curious to here from those who own or use these what their thoughts are over the time that they’ve had theirs. Does it turn into a safe queen, or is it one of the top choices on range day?

 

[Old Man with Gun]

The clones are solid, most are from HK machines setup in other countries.

The MP5 is still one of the nicest shooting sub guns in full auto. But once you back off to semi-automatic a lot of that value is diminished.

Very quiet suppressed, some delayed guns like the banshee has closed that gap as well.

Personally, I say go for it if you have the itch. If you buy used, you will not lose resale value.

 

[Steel head]

I love mp5’s but you really need to look into the B&T’s.

 

[FatBoy]

I love mp5’s but you really need to look into the B&T’s.

I’ve shot several GHm9s, and APC pro and a TP9 that’s was SBR’d with stock, foregrip and suppressor and liked them. The Glock mags, ehhh. The GHm9s were tough to seat a stock mag and keep it in.

 

[Zak Smith]

MP5 has panache. No question.

Realistically, for a PCC, there are better choices now based on a various criteria, I'd mention the MPX, the APC9, and the JP5 (and other AR based PCC's).

But if you want something, you want it. No problem there. One could argue that's why any of us still have 1911's

The P210 is a really nice pistol. It's not a high cap defense gun; not a high-cap IPSC/USPSA gun; not a super tiny carry pistol; etc, etc. It's just a damn fine shooting pistol, and the workmanship it very very good. Did you know it has a tiny tigger adjustment module that has the same adjustments as most high end bolt gun triggers (you have to take the gun about halfway apart).

 

[buffalowinter]

I too am nostalgic and have been collecting and building guns I used in SF. The Pakistani Ordnance Factories (POF) guns are made under license with machines from HK. They are 100% compatible with HK parts. They function flawlessly and are very accurate.

NFA Registered

 

[Ericsl2]

The old zenith mke were great and could be had for like 1500 bucks. Now they are under contract from some other company doing the importing and the price has jumped a bit. They shot just as well as the sp5 i have. Zero issues. The sp5 was going for 2400-2600ish but more recently they fetch much more than that. If you like the nostalgia of the mp5, pick up an sp5 or some of the more reputable clones and be happy. I have put thousands of rounds on my sp5 and it never gets old shooting it. One of those guns you’ll probably keep forever.

 

[dms416]

I had one of the California DOJ HK 94's for a long time (picked it up cheaper than what an MPX or SP5'd run you today).
Very cool gun; fun to shoot but served no purpose. I ultimately sold it for more practical endeavors.

The MP5 pattern is classic much like the P210 that will never fully die; they certainly left their mark but not very forgiving if you're trying to stay modern.
If tooling on muscle cars and maintaining a 1911 is your jam, the SP5 is for you, baby.
If you treat your car and daily carry like your lawnmower, get you a B&T and a bunch of ammo.

With that said, MOST guys I know dive into PCC's with zeal. If you don't consistently shoot matches or have a caveat where shooting rifle ammo is a no-go, most cats ultimately come to the same conclusion after a while. When cases of ammo begin to disappear way too fast, and the novelty of the PCC eventually wears off and the realization that this over-grown, super expensive pistol is killing your ammo stocks. Without a sear/fun switch or a dedicated purpose, the honeymoon almost always comes to an end.

 

[FatBoy]

I had one of the California DOJ HK 94's for a long time (picked it up cheaper than what an MPX or SP5'd run you today).
Very cool gun; fun to shoot but served no purpose. I ultimately sold it for more practical endeavors.

The MP5 pattern is classic much like the P210 that will never fully die; they certainly left their mark but not very forgiving if you're trying to stay modern.
If tooling on muscle cars and maintaining a 1911 is your jam, the SP5 is for you, baby.
If you treat your car and daily carry like your lawnmower, get you a B&T and a bunch of ammo.

With that said, MOST guys I know dive into PCC's with zeal. If you don't consistently shoot matches or have a caveat where shooting rifle ammo is a no-go, most cats ultimately come to the same conclusion after a while. When cases of ammo begin to disappear way too fast, and the novelty of the PCC eventually wears off and the realization that this over-grown, super expensive pistol is killing your ammo stocks. Without a sear/fun switch or a dedicated purpose, the honeymoon almost always comes to an end.

One of the things I have been kicking around. I have shot a bunch of these PCC and have never loved one so much I walked away having to have one, but that doesn’t stop me from thinking I want one of these.

Other consideration is when I travel my wife only has pistols out. That’s fine for me as I train with them but for her there is no question a PCC is easier to shoot. Of course a shotgun would work too. Also pining for a Beretta auto loader.

 

[dms416]

Other consideration is when I travel my wife only has pistols out. That’s fine for me as I train with them but for her there is no question a PCC is easier to shoot. Of course a shotgun would work too. Also pining for a Beretta auto loader.

Yeah, I get the "my wife can shoot it easier thing". But then again, it doesn't take much to get someone squared away on a soft-shootin' AR15.
Admittedly, I'm a rds pistol/lpvo ar15/short action bolt gun for covering my bases. PCC's, tooled up combat shotguns (like the 1301) and super expensive semi-auto large frames kinda leave me scratchin' my head for what they can/can't do for the money.

 

[bigmatt17073]

I've never tried any of the offerings from B&T yet, but have some experience in other PCC's. My first was a Kel-Tec Sub2K (gen 1 then later a gen 2). My second was a CZ Scorpion Evo that I had chopped and rethreaded to make a K and SBR'd it. Third one was the real mistake. I bought a POF 5PK pistol. I hated the metal lower so I bought a polymer SEF marked surplus lower and ambi safety for cheap and made them fit. I added a brace, but wanted a cooler one so I bought the Safety Harbor Talihook one. Eventually, I added the Franklin Binary trigger which was great as it was a great improvement over the stock in semi. My fourth one is a CMMG Guard (8" barrel older models before they were named Banshee). It is an AR in 9mm that takes Glock mags. The CMMG RDB really does work in taming recoil. My softest shooter is the POF 5PK with the CMMG just a touch behind it. If I owned the POF or CMMG first I would have never bought the CZ or a Kel-Tec.

In all of my years I say only two guns lived up to their hype for me. One of those is the MP5. I run mine almost exclusively suppressed (three lug mounted Griffin Optimus or Dead Air Ghost M 45). I love this gun and will never sell it. It runs 100% perfectly with all the POF marked mags I own. There are downsides as it is a bit outdated, tough to add optics, lights, etc., some mags suck and good H&K mags are expensive, and overall they aren't cheap. But, everyone that has ever shot mine ends up wanting one in the future.

 

[FatBoy]

I too am nostalgic and have been collecting and building guns I used in SF. The Pakistani Ordnance Factories (POF) guns are made under license with machines from HK. They are 100% compatible with HK parts. They function flawlessly and are very accurate.

NFA Registered

That MP5K on the right is fucking awesome, Rick.


.

MP5 has panache. No question.

Realistically, for a PCC, there are better choices now based on a various criteria, I'd mention the MPX, the APC9, and the JP5 (and other AR based PCC's).

But if you want something, you want it. No problem there. One could argue that's why any of us still have 1911's

The P210 is a really nice pistol. It's not a high cap defense gun; not a high-cap IPSC/USPSA gun; not a super tiny carry pistol; etc, etc. It's just a damn fine shooting pistol, and the workmanship it very very good. Did you know it has a tiny tigger adjustment module that has the same adjustments as most high end bolt gun triggers (you have to take the gun about halfway apart).

I have had no reason to pull the trigger down. It’s really nice right out of the box. It’s actually my daughters favorite pistol, and I almost have it to her as a wedding present but came to my senses.

As to the 1911 comment, I asked my builder (18B Ret.) to build my then soon to be son in law a full sized. I had a frame, we ended up using a Remington slide as Caspian basically shut down when COVID hit and ai didn’t have time to wait. He built a beautiful piece. Kart fitted barrel. Custom trigger. All the metal is blended. New springs, etc etc etc. Then we parkerized it and painted it SOCOM black. We put some VZ Army green grips with black undertones and I built a presentation box out of a Cuban Cigar box. I gave it to him the day he got his Green beret. I Love this kind of shit, and I think he will too when they get to a point where they have kids to pass some of this stuff too.

Edit: I think what it boils down to is I appreciate the craftsmanship. I own and compete with Glocks but I don’t think of them the same as a well built 1911, if that makes sense. The MP5 (and the B&Ts) really do feel like quality crafted pieces.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The MP5 is a great gun, but it was never meant to be a neutered pistol config.
It was meant to be an SBR and when you put the telescoping or side folding stock on it, along with the vertical foregrip, it becomes what it was meant to be.

If you spend the $40K + to get into the HK F/A world, the MP5 in F/A is something that will make you smile big.

If you get a deal on a real HK produced SP5 it would be a decent investment if kept in pristine condition.
I have one, but keep it unfired because it's too valuable to me to shoot. They have almost doubled in value since I bought it.

For a daily blaster, if you are on a budget, PTR makes a very good copy with all the "pistol brace" stuff setup on it already.

 

[dms416]

The MP5 is a great gun, but it was never meant to be a neutered pistol config.
It was meant to be an SBR and when you put the telescoping or side folding stock on it, along with the vertical foregrip, it becomes what it was meant to be.

If you spend the $40K + to get into the HK F/A world, the MP5 in F/A is something that will make you smile big.

If you get a deal on a real HK produced SP5 it would be a decent investment if kept in pristine condition.
I have one, but keep it unfired because it's too valuable to me to shoot. They have almost doubled in value since I bought it.

For a daily blaster, if you are on a budget, PTR makes a very good copy with all the "pistol brace" stuff setup on it already.

Jim234 on HKPro?

 

[W54/XM-388]

Jim234 on HKPro?

Yep, I don't go there as much these days as HK hasn't put out anything exciting in awhile and the trash talk in better over here.

 

[dms416]

Yeah, that avatar has been bugging me ever since the day you sic'd Terry Cross on me for not liking TacOps over AI for work stuff.
Thought it was an HK-related thing and it clicked in this thread.

 

[dms416]

Just to torture OP's soul:

 

[FatBoy]

Very nice

 

[dms416]

Very nice

I do miss that P210-2 though. Luckily I've always got the bite scars to remember it by

 

[FatBoy]

So I’ve been looking around and it seems I could find an H&K but I’m looking at almost $4k. So, with that in mind I have also been doing math, Snipershide style.

1xPTR601 + 1xBeretta1301Enhanced = .75xH&K SP5.

I mean, it’s almost like I would be saving $1000.

 

[W54/XM-388]

My suggestion, is get the PTR version of the MP5, and have fun shooting the hell out of it.
Then keep a really good lookout for any HK dealers if they get a restock of the SP5 variant in the $3k mark and then get that as an investment.
Then you instantly have $1000 investment growth and the PTR version could still be sold for probably 75% of the cost as long as it's in good condition, so you are like $500 ahead.

 

[FatBoy]

My suggestion, is get the PTR version of the MP5, and have fun shooting the hell out of it.
Then keep a really good lookout for any HK dealers if they get a restock of the SP5 variant in the $3k mark and then get that as an investment.
Then you instantly have $1000 investment growth and the PTR version could still be sold for probably 75% of the cost as long as it's in good condition, so you are like $500 ahead.

Sage advice. I stopped selling years ago though. The last rifle I sold was a GAP6.5x284 George built me in 2003 and I have regretted it since. It’s certainly not the smartest move on my part but once my daughter started shooting with me again(when she was a freshman in college) I pretty much resigned that she’s getting it all, eventually . Now her and my Son in Law, who in fairness is a bad influence as he’s got some cool shit too and his work guns motivate me as well.

I cannot wait to start building guns for grandkids…

 

[phxfa]

Arms Unlimited SP5 $3200.00 no tax,,,just thought I’d help you along,,,

 

[Kobiejohn]

If you consistently check sportsmen’s warehouses site you can pick a HK up for msrp, notifications didnt work for me.

 

[TxWelder35]

I haven’t shot a semi version of the mp5, but have shot most of the mp5 variants the way they are supposed to be with a trigger pack. An mp5sd honestly is one of those guns that is just the pinnacle of its category I have yet to see anything come close to dethroning it.

I’ve also shot semi cz scorpion and 9mm ARs my reaction on all of them has been meh. All the direct blow back guns recoil too damn much. I’d rather just shoot a 556 AR

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Speaking of Nostalgia....

 

[FatBoy]

Had to drop one of my guys off to get his truck and there’s a LGS I’ve never been in before. It’s packed to the gills with good shit. The 1301 I’m looking for is sitting there staring and me, 3 rows down from the PTR with a brace hanging on the wall. After some waffling, I picked up the 1301 enhanced.

Guess I need to learn how to use a shotgun….

 

[n2ishun]

Had to drop one of my guys off to get his truck and there’s a LGS I’ve never been in before. It’s packed to the gills with good shit. The 1301 I’m looking for is sitting there staring and me, 3 rows down from the PTR with a brace hanging on the wall. After some waffling, I picked up the 1301 enhanced.

Guess I need to learn how to use a shotgun….

Go quail hunting.
Seriously.
They *can* reach about 80mph on the wing and *can* fly erratic, so it's the best shotgun training you'll come across.
Just don't shoot the retriever dog.

 

[FatBoy]

I used to love Grouse shooting. There used to be Quail in middle TN but the coyotes really started spreading here over the last 20+ years and in my 17 years in the field in TN I have yet to see one.

A basic shotgun course for autoloaders would help.

 

[dms416]

A basic shotgun course for autoloaders would help.

Rob Haught would be my go-to for shotguns (I believe his son teaches too). Steve Fisher would be #2

 

[Bart]

I agree wholeheartedly with DMS...have taken both Rob and Rob and son courses....WELL worth the time and money, ran them both with the 1301

 

[clcustom1911]

Stop talking about it.

Be about it.

 

[padom]

Very happy with my PTR clone. Zero issues. Loves my 147 and 165 subs

 

[Elnino31]

If you can find an sp5 for near MSRP , they are worth it and will hold their value. If you go with a clone, I would try to stick with a RDTS or Dakota Tactical as you’re much less likely to have any reliability issues.

For the price that some MP5 variants go for; I would not hesitate to pick up a BT for around $2k instead. And personally, would pass on any lower end clone that you didn’t have an opportunity to look over in person.

The B&T’s apc9’s are pretty awesome from an ergonomic standpoint. Only have experience with the k version. But If you find one with a Glock lower that takes Glock mags, it’s even more versatile. For not being delayed rollers, they are still smooth shooters.

This is coming from someone that loves the mp5 platform. I have a MKE/Zenith, DT D54-N, D54r-n, and SP5 modified to accept a sear. The DT’s are just as good as HK fit and finish. The MKE is a little more crude from a finishing, but as long as you get one with good QC you’ll be happy. The MKE’s being able to accept 2 pin lowers is as close as you get to the original platform

 

[padom]

If you're looking...Atlantic Firearms still has the 9KT and 9CT in stock....and currently on sale at $1599.00. Hard to beat


PTR 9KT $1599

PTR 9KT Pistol-SALE - AtlanticFirearms.com

PTR Industries 9KT 9MM Pistol 897903003173. Semi automatic 9MM Pistol that can use HK MP5 parts. PTR 603 Great home defense option.

atlanticfirearms.com

PTR 9CT $1579

PTR 9CT Pistol SALE - AtlanticFirearms.com

PTR 9CT Pistol- 897903003104. PTR 601 Semi automatic threaded barrel roller delayed blowback pistol great for range fun or home defense.

atlanticfirearms.com

They also have some CA MKE on sale as well

Century AP5 Pistol SALE - AtlanticFirearms.com

AP5 Pistol made in Turkey by MKE and imported by Century Arms. The AP5 is great fun to shoot with a pistol brace or sling.787450668539-HG6034-N

atlanticfirearms.com

Century AP5-M 9MM Pistol - AtlanticFirearms.com

Century Arms AP5-M 9MM Pistol HG6036-N. MP5 style roller lock delayed blowback pistol is great for home defense or sporting applications. 787450668584

atlanticfirearms.com

Century Arms AP5-P Pistol - AtlanticFirearms.com

AP-5P 9MM Pistol is imported by Century Arms & made in Turkey by MKE. HG6035-N. Reliable roller lock action pistol AP5. 787450668560

atlanticfirearms.com

 

[FatBoy]

The shop I bought my shotgun at has(had?) the PTR on the shelf. If I have a weak moment I may go down and give it a once over. As much as I’d like to have an OG MP5 it’s probably not in the cards right now. The Mrs and I are supposed to go shoot the 1301 today. That’s going to be a determining factor in if I keep looking or I’m done for now.

Point of this firearm is it stays out for quick access. I’m not leaving a $3400 pistol out, and I don’t like leaving out any of my NFA stuff, which honestly may fuck the PCC plan this summer anyway when they ban braces. I’ll cross that bridge if we get to it.

 

[FatBoy]

Mrs. FatBoy and I went to the range and ran 70 rounds through the 1301. Ran 7.5s, 8s and 00 buck like a sewing machine. She had never fired a shotgun before today and by the end she was doing 2 second ready up drills and center punching an e type at 20’, which is plenty good for now.

I’m super happy with this shotgun, even if it does make me a little sad than I don’t have a built in reason to buy the PTR short of “I want it”. I’ll think of something…