Noveske SBR Barrel Lengths - 300 BLK & 5.56

[treillw]

Want to pick up a 5.56 short barrel upper and a 300 blk short barrel upper for a Noveske Gen 3. They are just a little off on the lengths which I (and others) think are ideal though.

I'd like a 9" 300 BLK, as that is what the cartridge was designed for. They have an 8" offering.

I'd like a 11.5" or 12.5" for the 5.56, and the closest they offer is a 10.5". I'd just like to squeeze a little more range out of it, as the 10.5" barrel is typically just over 2500 fps and I'd like it to have some more take down power at a little further distances.

1" doesn't seem to be much, but after doing a lot of research I've heard multiple recommendations for longer than 10.5" from navy seals, army rangers, ballistics gel, etc.

The dwell time aspect of a longer gun doesn't concern me too much. I suspect that Noveske will have the rifle tuned like Joe Bonamassa's guitar and it will run awesome. My main concern is the velocity.

Noveske isn't doing any custom work currently. Thoughts? (probably that I will never notice the 1" length difference!) Remedies?

Thanks!

 

[treillw]

Also chosen barrel lengths are probably influenced by round choice.

What rounds are ideal at what sbr barrel length?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I have a 10.5" CLGS and a 12.5" MLGS 5.56 in otherwise identical guns. No doubt about it, the 12.5" can be counted on to make hits at 400 yards while the 10.5 is noticeably more of a scatter gun. 12.5" is way softer, quieter and the extra handguard length allows more control of the gun. They've both killed quite a few varmints and the 12.5" even seems slightly better at that. I actually hate the 10.5" now and don't even notice that it's 2" shorter.

 

[strikeeagle1]

There is an entire thread on SBR .300 BO builds, might want to check that out.

I have this Noveske N4 10.5" SBR that I set up as a grab-and-go package either open or in a LaRue Covert soft case bag, which are nice and
easy to configure for accessories. The Black Hills TSX 50 gr were developed for the 5.56 short barrels. Use a Aimpoint M4S red dot w/ magnifer or a S&B Short Dot 1.1-4X as well. Just for fun, IF door knocking were necessary, configured it in a Master-Key as well.

 

[Odysseus1911]

 

[treillw]

There is an entire thread on SBR .300 BO builds, might want to check that out.

I have this Noveske N4 10.5" SBR that I set up as a grab-and-go package either open or in a LaRue Covert soft case bag, which are nice and
easy to configure for accessories. The Black Hills TSX 50 gr were developed for the 5.56 short barrels. Use a Aimpoint M4S red dot w/ magnifer or a S&B Short Dot 1.1-4X as well. Just for fun, IF door knocking were necessary, configured it in a Master-Key as well.

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Holy smokes

 

[Odysseus1911]

Want to pick up a 5.56 short barrel upper and a 300 blk short barrel upper for a Noveske Gen 3. They are just a little off on the lengths which I (and others) think are ideal though.

I'd like a 9" 300 BLK, as that is what the cartridge was designed for. They have an 8" offering.

I'd like a 11.5" or 12.5" for the 5.56, and the closest they offer is a 10.5". I'd just like to squeeze a little more range out of it, as the 10.5" barrel is typically just over 2500 fps and I'd like it to have some more take down power at a little further distances.

1" doesn't seem to be much, but after doing a lot of research I've heard multiple recommendations for longer than 10.5" from navy seals, army rangers, ballistics gel, etc.

The dwell time aspect of a longer gun doesn't concern me too much. I suspect that Noveske will have the rifle tuned like Joe Bonamassa's guitar and it will run awesome. My main concern is the velocity.

Noveske isn't doing any custom work currently. Thoughts? (probably that I will never notice the 1" length difference!) Remedies?

Thanks!

I'm running Speer TNT 125s at 2000 fps out of an 8". I certainly wouldn't add another inch to the barrel for a measly 25-30 fps.

 

[treillw]

Based on what I'm seeing, xm193 goes 2750 fps from a 10.5" barrel with 927 ft*lb of energy, which is sufficient velocity and energy for cavitation.

Seems like arguments on when cavitation goes away is between 1800 and 2300 fps and 800 ft*lb of energy.

Also seeing that 2400 to 2500 fps is sufficient for the xm193 to fragment.

There is probably better ammo out there as well, but I don't want to spend $$$$ on mass quantities of it in this market.

Sounds like the 10.5" minimum barrel is a safe bet. Just to add a little more diversity (which is a good thing these days), an 8" BLK and 12.5" 5.56 would pair nicely with the 14.5" I have.

 

[treillw]

But boy it drops in velocity fast! Looks like max effective range is about 110 yards.

 

[r.tenorio671]

Based on what I'm seeing, xm193 goes 2750 fps from a 10.5" barrel with 927 ft*lb of energy, which is sufficient velocity and energy for cavitation.

Seems like arguments on when cavitation goes away is between 1800 and 2300 fps and 800 ft*lb of energy.

Also seeing that 2400 to 2500 fps is sufficient for the xm193 to fragment.

There is probably better ammo out there as well, but I don't want to spend $$$$ on mass quantities of it in this market.

Sounds like the 10.5" minimum barrel is a safe bet. Just to add a little more diversity (which is a good thing these days), an 8" BLK and 12.5" 5.56 would pair nicely with the 14.5" I have.

....IMHO, the 8" BLK and 12.5" are redundant (and unnecessary) since you already have a 12.5" 556, in a "peaceful" environment. If you had to "grab & go" it would probably be much simpler (& lighter) if you had the 8" BLK and a 556 in a more suitable length to cover possible engagement range limits of each calibers capabilities as you navigate across multiple terrains. Your anticipated modes of traversing said terrains (foot, vehicle, animal) or "stay in place defense" are also considerations. A worst case scenario is escaping a city/urban zone and the weight limits of immediate survival supplies (ammo, water, food, meds, shelter) you can carry. You could be faced with 1 lower, 2 uppers, which are swappable to meet your close & distant engagement ranges that the calibers are capable of. Ammo "resupply"( or "scavenge") is a real consideration as well.

....there is no simple answer

 

[treillw]

Data for the 300 BLK 110 Varmageddon doesn't look terribly promising at distance when comparing to the criteria I mentioned above.

Max effective range somewhere around 125?

 

[Clayman]

Noveske used to have 11.5 and 12.5. Used to have a 12.5 mid which would be my choice.

https://noveske.com/products/no-gas-block-barrel-5-56/?attribute_length=10.5

There is a drop down option for 12.5. You could ask for an eta.

They have a 12.5 lo pro in stock but it's carbine length
https://noveske.com/products/chf-ch...title=10.5" LSLP&attribute_headspaced-bolt=No

 

[treillw]

....IMHO, the 8" BLK and 12.5" are redundant (and unnecessary) since you already have a 12.5" 556, in a "peaceful" environment. If you had to "grab & go" it would probably be much simpler (& lighter) if you had the 8" BLK and a 556 in a more suitable length to cover possible engagement range limits of each calibers capabilities as you navigate across multiple terrains. Your anticipated modes of traversing said terrains (foot, vehicle, animal) or "stay in place defense" are also considerations. A worst case scenario is escaping a city/urban zone and the weight limits of immediate survival supplies (ammo, water, food, meds, shelter) you can carry. You could be faced with 1 lower, 2 uppers, which are swappable to meet your close & distant engagement ranges that the calibers are capable of. Ammo "resupply"( or "scavenge") is a real consideration as well.

....there is no simple answer

Maybe I'm confused a little, but I don't currently have a 12.5" 5.56 - only a 14.5"

Good thoughts nevertheless.

 

[r.tenorio671]

I'm running Speer TNT 125s at 2000 fps out of an 8". I certainly wouldn't add another inch to the barrel for a measly 25-30 fps.

....and that bullet, at that speed, it will definitely put a hurt on fleshy objects up 200 yds at least...

 

[treillw]

....and that bullet, at that speed, it will definitely put a hurt on fleshy objects up 200 yds at least...

What is the generally accepted max effective range of a 8" 300 BLK and a 10.5" 5.56?

I've been reading stuff all day and haven't been able to nail this down.

 

[r.tenorio671]

Maybe I'm confused a little, but I don't currently have a 12.5" 5.56 - only a 14.5"

Good thoughts nevertheless.

....to be honest, IMHO having a 8-10" 300BLK and a 16-18" 223/556 upper in your backpack is a more practical combination. If you are confronted with an environment where "close" distances are dominant, the short 300BLK is lighter, handier and the caliber very effective. Once out of the confines and into the more open/distant areas, swap uppers and continue to move out. Distance between you and the threat is your best defense and if necessary, distance can also be your advantage IF you have a platform & caliber that can take advantage of that distance...

 

[treillw]

Does Noveske make a pistol with a CHF barrel in 300blk? I think I'm only seeing an option for stainless.

 

[treillw]

....to be honest, IMHO having a 8-10" 300BLK and a 16-18" 223/556 upper in your backpack is a more practical combination. If you are confronted with an environment where "close" distances are dominant, the short 300BLK is lighter, handier and the caliber very effective. Once out of the confines and into the more open/distant areas, swap uppers and continue to move out. Distance between you and the threat is your best defense and if necessary, distance can also be your advantage IF you have a platform & caliber that can take advantage of that distance...

It's nice to not have the confusion of two types of ammo in different mags - pretty sure a 300 blk in 5.56 results in a bad day.

I also want rifles for two people.

 

[r.tenorio671]

What is the generally accepted max range of a 8" 300 BLK and a 10.5" 5.56?

I've been reading stuff all day and haven't been able to nail this down.

....max "range" isn't the same as "max effective range". The aspect you should consider is what the energy number at specific range is for a caliber out of a particular barrel length....higher energy numbers induce more effective results on game or other fleshy threats.

...you can use a ballistics calculator like JBM ( https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml ) to run the numbers to get an idea of the difference between calibers, but don't just look at the distances a particular caliber is capable of, that in itself is meaningless. Example: a 9mm out of a pistol can reach out to a very long distance, but once it gets to that max distance, it may not even be able to penetrate a piece of paper and possibly bounce off it...

 

[treillw]

....max "range" isn't the same as "max effective range". The aspect you should consider is what the energy number at specific range is for a caliber out of a particular barrel length....higher energy numbers induce more effective results on game or other fleshy threats.

...you can use a ballistics calculator like JBM ( https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml ) to run the numbers to get an idea of the difference between calibers, but don't just look at the distances a particular caliber is capable of, that in itself is meaningless. Example: a 9mm out of a pistol can reach out to a very long distance, but once it gets to that max distance, it may not even be able to penetrate a piece of paper and possibly bounce off it...

Agreed. I missed the word effective in my post.

Check out the velocity and energy info I posted above for 300 BLK and 5.56 - posts 9 & 11.

 

[r.tenorio671]

Want to pick up a 5.56 short barrel upper and a 300 blk short barrel upper for a Noveske Gen 3. They are just a little off on the lengths which I (and others) think are ideal though.

I'd like a 9" 300 BLK, as that is what the cartridge was designed for. They have an 8" offering.

I'd like a 11.5" or 12.5" for the 5.56, and the closest they offer is a 10.5". I'd just like to squeeze a little more range out of it, as the 10.5" barrel is typically just over 2500 fps and I'd like it to have some more take down power at a little further distances.

1" doesn't seem to be much, but after doing a lot of research I've heard multiple recommendations for longer than 10.5" from navy seals, army rangers, ballistics gel, etc.

The dwell time aspect of a longer gun doesn't concern me too much. I suspect that Noveske will have the rifle tuned like Joe Bonamassa's guitar and it will run awesome. My main concern is the velocity.

Noveske isn't doing any custom work currently. Thoughts? (probably that I will never notice the 1" length difference!) Remedies?

Thanks!

...all other responses aside, if you plan to add Noveske branded parts/assemblies to your existing Noveske Gen3 platform, I would suggest that the offerings Noveske provides have been thoroughly tested and optimized for their platforms and can provide a higher probability of compatibility and reliable functionality "out of the box". If you want to deviate from their offered options, I would suggest you contact them and discuss what you desire and see if they can accommodate your desires and/or clarify why they do/don't recommend/offer those.

Good luck and YMMV

 

[Clayman]

What is the generally accepted max effective range of a 8" 300 BLK and a 10.5" 5.56?

I've been reading stuff all day and haven't been able to nail this down.

Biggest limiting factor is ammo. In 5.56 for example you have rounds that will fail to reliably fragment or expand at speeds as high as 2500 fps. You also have rounds that will expand/fragment down to 1700 ish fps.

So ballistic coefficient of the round, velocity from your rifle and the rounds frag/expansion threshold is going to be your rough max "effective range".


300 blk the 110 tac tx expands down to 1350 fps.

Be very careful with 300 blk rounds. Many companies have just used .30 bullets designed for .308-300wm velocities. The frag/expansion threshold is basically what short barrels (300 blk) get at the muzzle. So you might have 50 ish yards of effective expansion.

Subsonics from discreet ballistics will expand out to like 500 yards but the drop is ridiculous.