Night Vision Nox 18 unboxing and first thoughts

[Jim Out]

I'm using the Knight's armament KVC universal bridge RQE. Vyper PVS14 WP with ~2400 FOM and SureShotNV SNB filter.
I used it with my GP( I think, unknown SPECS but good FOM) PVS14 unit and, provided its dark out, I don't really have trouble fusing those images either.

Would be interesting to see the how well that mud adobe insulates with the NOx.

I have a pic of some studs/screws the other night and that damn cold spot in my wall. Would get more interior stuff for you but the NOx is pretty chilly and needs to warm up to interior temps before it'll take a good image.

I attached more images of deer from a bit of a stalk I had last night. I couldn't count the points on the two bucks but you can clearly tell they've got racks. Thought about throwing a rock at them at one point.

Wow, thank you again so much.

I really appreciate the gear spec.

I am very interested in the SSNV filter, that's one of the first unusual pieces I read up on when starting this adventure.


Sadly the adobe is no more, we sold to the City of Tucson in 2006, when they were doing their Regional Transportation Authority plan.

After a true multi-million dollar shitshow where the City claimed that an underground tunnel system with various unimproved sections, which were just stone walled wash channels from the 20's, constituted a "Riparian Protected Zone" with migratory javelina's and coyotes.

They ultimately had to revise their previous bullshit story when, in order to obtain the Federal Funding for their transportation project, the USACE (Army corps of Engineers) demanded a "comprehensive flood control plan" for the entire city.

Naturally they bullshitted their way through a few hundred million dollars of tax money, but ultimately they couldn't substantiate that the drainage ditch next to the rail yard (main track switching hub) which had so much spilled diesel that it occasionally caught fire, could conceivably be an 'environmental treasure'......

.....so they finally gave in and admitted they were using private land as flood detention basins by failing to maintain the washes constructed by the WPA after the depression.

We represented a couple hundred property owners on the High School Wash who got compensated or bought out through eminent domain.

Our adobe tri-plex was one of them.

When we bought it the owner, June Birt (Robles), was plastering the outside with lime plaster while her two ner-do-well sons sat in lawn chairs drinking beer watching her work.

She would have been 71 when we bought the property.

June Robles - Wikipedia​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_Robles
June Cecilia Robles (Tucson, June 11, 1927 - Tucson, September 2, 2014) was a notable kidnapping victim from Tucson, Arizona. Though she survived her ordeal, the person or persons responsible for her abduction were never apprehended.

June Robles Birt, Whose Abduction at 6 Gripped the Nation ...​

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/...duction-gripped-the-nation-is-dead-at-87.html
Oct 31, 2017So when 6-year-old June Robles, the granddaughter of a prosperous cattle baron and real estate magnate, vanished in broad daylight just after leaving her Tucson school on a spring day in 1934, news...


******

There's a million stories in the Naked Pueblo, this is one.

Out of pure spite the City "repaired" the building and ultimately it became a dirt parking lot.

Tucson truly is the Land of Misfit Toys.....

 

[Max_R]

@Jim Out, there are a few video recorders out there that do a decent job. Some people like LPMR for out of the eyepiece recording. There are a few DVRs that can be hooked to the NOX using the video cable. The NOX is the same as the Halo/Halo-LR, except for the connector type from the video recording standpoint.

Setting up a video recording depends on the video recorder. If it's one of the DVRs that connects to the Nox with a cable, you have to follow DVR's instructions and make sure that the video output is turned on under the System Settings menu and it is in NTSC format. To preserve the battery life, the NOX's video output is turned off by default.

Photo download requires a separate software that can be downloaded from the N-Vision Optics web site. There is no video download functionality in this software because the NOX does not support internal video recording. For instruction regarding downloading videos from external recorders, you would have to check the recorder's instructions.

...
Can anyone recommend a video recorder for the NOx?
How does one set up the unit for video out recording?
Is that part of the photo download software or is the video out function of the usb like normal cameras?

...

 

[Killswitch Engage]

@Jim Out, there are a few video recorders out there that do a decent job. Some people like LPMR for out of the eyepiece recording. There are a few DVRs that can be hooked to the NOX using the video cable. The NOX is the same as the Halo/Halo-LR, except for the connector type from the video recording standpoint.

Setting up a video recording depends on the video recorder. If it's one of the DVRs that connects to the Nox with a cable, you have to follow DVR's instructions and make sure that the video output is turned on under the System Settings menu and it is in NTSC format. To preserve the battery life, the NOX's video output is turned off by default.

Photo download requires a separate software that can be downloaded from the N-Vision Optics web site. There is no video download functionality in this software because the NOX does not support internal video recording. For instruction regarding downloading videos from external recorders, you would have to check the recorder's instructions.

max do you have a link to the software download for images?

 

[Max_R]

max do you have a link to the software download for images?

Software: https://nvisionoptics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Image_Downloader.zip
Instructions: https://nvisionoptics.com/product/nox-thermal-monocular-18/

It is also available on the NOX page under the Downloads tab.

 

[Jim Out]

Software: https://nvisionoptics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Image_Downloader.zip
Instructions: https://nvisionoptics.com/product/nox-thermal-monocular-18/

It is also available on the NOX page under the Downloads tab.

Thank you for posting the links again Max, you guys have a cool tool there!

 

[Jim Out]

@Jim Out, there are a few video recorders out there that do a decent job. Some people like LPMR for out of the eyepiece recording. There are a few DVRs that can be hooked to the NOX using the video cable. The NOX is the same as the Halo/Halo-LR, except for the connector type from the video recording standpoint.

Is there a big difference in video quality between LPMR and cable?

Does N-Vision manufacture one?

Setting up a video recording depends on the video recorder. If it's one of the DVRs that connects to the Nox with a cable, you have to follow DVR's instructions and make sure that the video output is turned on under the System Settings menu and it is in NTSC format. To preserve the battery life, the NOX's video output is turned off by default.

Is N-Vision planning to manufacture or license/authorize any cabling solutions to combine external battery support along with video out capability?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm pretty ignorant about how this stuff gets the pin-out for the connector/usb functions and also what the transfer rates would be as well as the power supply limitations.

 

[texasleftychef]

Interesting you guys mentioning the pictures of construction. I almost took a picture of my metal barn. The image was shocking to say the least. Looked like full high def black and white 4K picture. Could see the seams in the metal and every individual screw and obviously windows and doors but was amazed at how much definition there was. Granted it was probably only 20 yards away but still shocking.

 

[battbot]

Question -- Why would someone get a NOX 35 over the newly announced Halo X35? Would it be only if they wanted the option to helmet mount? Seems like the 35 is too big to function as a practical helmet mounted option IMO. Am I missing something?

 

[Max_R]

...

Is there a big difference in video quality between LPMR and cable?

Some people manage to get a better quality video with LPMR, but the cable is more convenient for many users.

Does N-Vision manufacture one?

No

Is N-Vision planning to manufacture or license/authorize any cabling solutions to combine external battery support along with video out capability?

No plans to manufacture, but we'll be happy to provide connector details to anybody how wants to do it. I believe that somebody already works on something along those lines, but I have not seen a formal announcement yet. It's unclear if the integrated external battery + video recorder solution is really beneficial for the Nox. It's getting a fairly good run time on a single 18650 battery.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm pretty ignorant about how this stuff gets the pin-out for the connector/usb functions and also what the transfer rates would be as well as the power supply limitations.

We will provide all necessary details to anybody willing to develop accessories for the Nox.

 

[Max_R]

Question -- Why would someone get a NOX 35 over the newly announced Halo X35? Would it be only if they wanted the option to helmet mount? Seems like the 35 is too big to function as a practical helmet mounted option IMO. Am I missing something?

I think it's a trade-off between size/weight/cost and functionality. Nox 35 works extremely well as a scanner and some people successfully used it helmet-mounted. The Nox 35 is a good small weapon sight but the Halo-X35 may be better for dedicated weapon mounted use due to ergonomic considerations, fixed focus, and added features, such as integrated video recording.

 

[Hoyter87]

Here are a few more pics of deer with no digital zoom. Again, this is right after dark so contrast not optimal.

 

[Jim Out]

Woo hoo....it's here!!!!!

After sitting in Georgia in USPS jail for expensive insured Priority Mail parcels that the USPS employees might steal because everyone who works for USPS in Georgia is a fucking thief, according to their response to the Arizona Postmaster's inquiry Last Friday.......

........suddenly the fucktards at USPS managed to deliver my NOx this morning after it sat for a week!


Say, wasn't there a mail-in something or other last November that Georgia USPS fucked up?

I think there was another watchamacallit in January that they fucked up too?

Anyway now that we have "identified the problem" the formal inquiry will begin.

If anyone else has a problem with shipping into or through the Georgia Hub I would encourage you to immediately contact your local State Level Postmaster, according to Robert this happens all the time.

It's hard to steal an all mail-in ballot election without criminals in the USPS, I'd expect they leave a trail if you follow the money, or in this case postage.
*****[/postal-rant]

Enough about the criminals in the Federal Government, I am so stoked to fire this thing up I can't express how awesome the customer service from Robert at JRH and N-Vision is without pictures which I'll post up shortly.

It's so cool to get swag, Robert, it's the little touches like that that remind me that it's always about the people involved.

Thank you so much for your honesty and attention to detail, your reputation for that is well deserved!

As for N-Vision, the challenge coin was such a nice and unexpected kindness.

"Ready to go out of the box" just isn't something most manufacturers are capable of understanding, much less delivering, you guys rock!

The sun's down and it's cold and rainy, supposed to hit 27* tomorrow, was 75* until two days ago.

Should provide some challenging conditions.

How long do I have to wait on the battery to charge......

I may have to fight through my cheapness and use the included CR123......


Thank you to everyone here, the wealth of knowledge and tests with reviews made our first NV purchase one of the best experiences ever.

 

[Jigstick]

have any of you had the chance to mount your Nox18 to a rifle and take some shots?

 

[SkyScrapin]

have any of you had the chance to mount your Nox18 to a rifle and take some shots?

@wigwamitus

 

[texasleftychef]

I’ve got a fresh 24 pack of hand warmers and some free time tomorrow so hoping to try it out with a few rifles. I assume it should hold zero over all the zoom ranges? I’ve always wondered about this and thermals. I never usually shoot over 1x or 2x. I think I’d still like some sort of riser so if anybody can point me toward one of those it would be appreciated. Not one of the rail section risers either if possible.

Will report back tomorrow or Friday with details.

 

[TheHorta]

Interested. There’s POI shift in every thermal I’ve ever used under digital magnification. Some slight, some extreme.

 

[wigwamitus]

... have any of you had the chance to mount your Nox18 to a rifle and take some shots? ..

Here's a link to the tail end of my nox-18 review from a month back ... this is 200yd/300yd shooting event.

Night Vision - Night Ops

Definitely looks like a dog to me.

www.snipershide.com

Scroll backwards thru the thread to see the rest of the review.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Interested. There’s POI shift in every thermal I’ve ever used under digital magnification. Some slight, some extreme.

i have not seen that in the halo lr but i also think thermal bleed and target choice comes into play here.

 

[wigwamitus]

... i also think thermal bleed and target choice comes into play ...

Definitely agree. There was a while, where I was mis-attributing wandering zero to other causes, like POI shift of the equipment ... but after more exhaustive testing was able to nail down thermal bleed as the culprit. Basically what was happening in my case is that as the handwarmer heats up, it heats up the target board (a piece of plywood) and the apparent "center of the handwarmer" is no longer actually the center of the handwarmer, but the center of the hot spot ... which could be an inch off (or so) from the center of the handwarmer.
I now use aluminum foil squares (with shiny side facing out) for my targets. That also allows me to make the target as small or large as I like. The results are much improved and cost is reduced.

 

[Max_R]

Interested. There’s POI shift in every thermal I’ve ever used under digital magnification. Some slight, some extreme.

It is a little strange because the math to prevent the POA from shifting with zoom is quite simple, and I think it's implemented in all modern scopes. Unless, as pointed above, the shift is not scope related.

 

[wigwamitus]

... It is a little strange because the math to prevent the POA from shifting with zoom is quite simple, and I think it's implemented in all modern scopes. Unless, as pointed above, the shift is not scope related ...

@Max_R

Do "all modern scopes" correctly handle athermalization ??
(I have my doubts)

 

[Max_R]

@Max_R

Do "all modern scopes" correctly handle athermalization ??
(I have my doubts)

Of course not, as a minimum, because not all scopes have athermalized objective lenses. Athermalization is pretty easy to implement, and most of the time, it works well. However, athermalization is mostly used for fixed focus scopes. The motion of athermalized lenses is linear, and, normally, there is not much impact on the POA. If it's within a pixel size, nobody is going to notice it. However, manual focus scopes with Germanium lenses typically do not have athermalized lenses and require re-focusing when there is a temperature change. This refocusing may lead to the POA change, and its degree depends on each particular implementation. Note: Chalcogenide lenses are not very sensitive to temperature changes, and people don't make any athermalization provisions for them, but in case of extreme temperature changes, there may be some slight change of focus.

 

[TheHorta]

It is a little strange because the math to prevent the POA from shifting with zoom is quite simple, and I think it's implemented in all modern scopes. Unless, as pointed above, the shift is not scope related.

I would have thought that’s the case.

Would this differ for a (true) clip-on?

 

[wigwamitus]

Well with "true" clipons (I use the "true" word inconjunction with clipons, to mean "has prism collimation" - perhaps you mean otherwise) ... we generally would not shoot with any magnification other than 1x on the clipon as we want to use the hash marks on our reticle which are only valid if the clipon is 1x. Use of a 2x digital magnification on thermal clipon is intended to be used for observation only.

 

[Max_R]

Would this differ for a (true) clip-on?

I'll have to think about this. There should be some complications because the clip-on is normally zoomed relatively to the dead center of the image (the center of the thermal image does not move while zooming). But in the most general case, when the scope's reticle does not align perfectly with the clip-on's central pixel, the zoom will mess things up. The only way to handle this problem would be by introducing a "utility" reticle on a clip-on. This "utility" reticle would have to be aligned perfectly with the scope's reticle and turned off after that. Following this operation, the clip-on has to zoom relatively to the center of the "utility" reticle that coincides with the scope's reticle. This should keep things lined up perfectly (at least within one pixel). I hope this makes sense. Sorry, I don't know if somebody is doing it or not.

 

[Max_R]

... we generally would not shoot with any magnification other than 1x on the clipon as we want to use the hash marks on our reticle which are only valid if the clipon is 1x.

Having clip-on with zoom functionality makes a lot of sense if the display resolution is much higher than the sensor's resolution.
The user may benefit quite a bit from an intelligent display driver that should, as a minimum, perform a nice interpolation. The display's image zoomed in with a scope will look much smoother if the interpolation + possibly some other image improvements are done on a clip-on. But so far, I see no way to implement it without introducing an additional adjustment procedure (my "utility" reticle from the earlier comment).

Use of a 2x digital magnification on thermal clipon is intended to be used for observation only.

Agree. I tried to describe the reason in the earlier comment.

 

[wigwamitus]

Ah, I thought horta was referring to digital zooming on the thermal clipon, since that was his earlier meaning. But, the UTC-x manual, for instance, does describe a "parallax adjustment" process, whereby using the thermal menu, you align the clipon reticle with the day scope reticle, then turn it off.

 

[texasleftychef]

So fellow Noxers and Noxees to be I intended to weapon mount my guy tonight and wasted too much time on trouble shooting my AR10 and running trails and feeders. Anyways it got dark and I had the 14 and the Nox with with me so I figured what the hell let’s do this.

Now for those of you that don’t know me I’m a low speed high drag kind of guy. I’m mostly interested in seeing stuff at night and just as likely to not shoot as shoot depending how I feel about certain vermin are invading my space. Game management you might call it. Or my reluctance to kill things I might not eat. I have a lot of thermal experience and very little NV experience.

So anyways best I’ve done before is kind of mock up the 14 and the Nox together and have some cocktails on the back porch in the dark and pretend about how superior I’m going to be when it all goes wrong while secretly wishing I had dual skeets. But tonight I hooked it all up in the wilderness that is my tree farm and wandered around some.

I’m also a helmet newb too (and probably need a private lesson on how to get that set up right) but with a ziplock full of tire weights on the back of my awesome Wendy helmet I ventured out into the great wilderness at night. Think I should have more weight as well.

Initial thoughts are why in the hell would anybody try and Match up a 14 and a thermal. I’m left eye dominant and had thermal on right but no matter what it always seemed the thermal ruled the image. Maybe cause the thermal was brighter. Which brings up another issue. The Nox controls with a 14 on the left are just hard to use when mounted on the right and I didn’t play with any settings. Possibly playing with these could have optimized my results better.

Best success I had was from I think a post from a fellow hider I think named will and what he seemed to explain as a binocular effect. Which I can only understand is a marriage of the two with a perfect overlay like using regular binoculars and getting one round circle view. I had this and lost this marriage throughout my two hour escapade. Best I could usually do was an image that had an outline of an 8 on side but with an image that seemed to be aligned.

When you can get it perfect it seems like the thermal image is front and center and augmented by the 14 on the outside. Even the black around the square image of the Nox blends into the NV image. When you could get this is was pretty cool but hard to maintain with helmet shift and me constantly dicking with the setup. Now when the moon came up the NV seemed to integrate better into the system.

So my initial thoughts again are they can be used together. The thermal seems to dominate no matter what. NV is a better compliment with more ambient light (couldn’t find Luna to bring tonight) especially with blinking lights like on my electric fence and when the moon came up. I will continue to try this set up but personally believe they shine more when one was down and the other was up. So with both on a bridge but only used one at a time.

Take with a grain of salt from a helmet newb but that’s what I have this far. Wig always tells us to train with our gear more so maybe that is the answer to integrating the two systems.

Flame away.

 

[wigwamitus]

... why in the hell would anybody try and Match up a 14 and a thermal ...

... thermal seems to dominate no matter what ...

... both on a bridge but only used one at a time ...

==
I started holding up Apollo to one eye with 14 on other eye around April 2014. So, that's the date of first attempts to do "dual band". I loved it !!
At first I would stop before holding up the apollo and then lower it back down before moving. But later, in open ground, I learned I could hold it up by moving if I used "thumb on cheek" method of stabilizing the apollo while moving. But it still cost me a hand.
So a year later when I heard the patrols and q-14s were coming out, I got excited, because they were both designed to helmet mount and I could get my hand out of the "hold up" business.
Well in Sept 15, for various reasons, Armasight gave me a better deal and I got the q-14. I was mostly a dunce in those days, so I was never able to solve the problem of getting the q-14 beside the pvs-14 at the same time (a mum form factor beside a pvs-14 form factor). So in Jan 16 I got an ODIN 1x, 17mm, 320 which was a pvs-14 form factor and that solved the problem. Finally I was dual band, hands free, while moving !!

Since then I've put a patrol, a skeet, a breach and a coti up there as well. They all get the job done.

==
Now you say "match up" ... and that was not specifically my goal. So goals is one point. My goal is hands free spotting while moving ... a fused image (matched up?) would be nice, and you might be able to get closer by making adjustments to the rear ends of the Nox and the 14, but for me, that has not been the goal.

"Thermal seems to dominate" ... first of all, most of us run our thermals way too bright. So try turning down the brightness ! After 30m your eyes will dramatically adjust to the darkness. You want the setting that works for that point, not the setting you think is right when you first go out. Thermal still might dominate because it will still be brighter, BUT try thermal on the non-dominate eye as well.

"both on a bridge but only used one at a time"

For me, the primary purpose of the thermal up there is as a spotter, hands free, while moving and the primary purpose of the 14 up there is to see the laser. Even when I don't consciously see the 14 image, I see the laser. Also, even when I don't consciously see the 14 image, I see things like lights on a tower 7 miles away, from the top of one of my hills. So I'm seeing the 14 image, I just don't always know I am. So the 14 can see laser (ir-light) and vis lights and the thermal can do neither.

If I look at a tree 25 yds away, I usually see 2 trees a foot or 2 apart. That doesn't bother me. Maybe it bothers some people, IDK, I'm me, so I can only speak for me. I seem to be able to "will" the image of the 14 into the forefront if needed. If I'm in a hurry to do that and want to really be sure it happens, I use the "on / off" buttons also known as my "eyelids" to make it happen. I can turn one device off my closing one eyelid. Its rare that I do that. But I do it sometimes for safety reasons, when rolling on 4 wheeler across a pipe bridge 15 feet over the creek bottom in one spot. I "turn off" (with eyelid) the 14 so the thermal can navigate.

And BTW, back when I first started going out with thermal and 14 together, the conventional wisdom was that the 14 was for navigating and the thermal was for critter spotting. Over the eons, I finally realized that mostly, the thermal is also for navigating, especially in the woods and creeks on nights with no moon. We have lots of dead fall and low branches and sticker vines etc. and on many lights, the thermal can see all that better than the 14. So now, I think of the thermal as the general spotter (including navigation) and the 14 as the "device that can see the laser". In snow, after a heavy rain, after ice storm, then the 14 sees the terrain way better than the thermal. The thermal still sees the critters, but the 14 sees the terrain way better.

==
So, yes, definitely try it some more, don't give up yet ! I realize dual band isn't for everyone, but for me, it was very liberating to be able to have thermal hands free on my head while moving. Whether on 4 wheeler or on foot. And I would feel like I was giving up a lot of capability if I didn't have that.

" Wig always tells us to train with our gear more so maybe that is the answer to integrating the two systems"

Its three systems ... the thermal, the 14 and the brain !!! Gotta train to integrate the THREE systems !

 

[texasleftychef]

Thanks wig. Kind of misspoke there about why would anybody do this. Just meant that it felt unnatural for lack of a better word. There was a big difference from sitting around to moving around. And the visual of looking through a square and round hole at the same time is kind of wonky. But I totally see the upside. That’s why I’m hoping to make it work.

Totally agree on the brightness thing but the controls on the Nox on the right eye are hard to get to with the 14 down on the left. I’m actually kind of slapping myself stupid for not thinking to swing the 14 out and make some adjusts with more room. Also some illumination would have probably helped too but I’ve misplaced the Luna somewhere for the time being.

Lastly I’m not trying to bring anybody down about this idea. Just trying to point out some issues a guy without a bunch of experience is having and transitioning to a new platform so to speak. I’ve always gone weapon mounted and hand spotter. Never the helmet route. But have dreamed of going dual band ever since the breach came out.

 

[Hoyter87]

Try changing your settings:

Lower your Brightness ( 1 or 2)
Lower your Sharpness (0 or 1)
Gamma 2 if that's too dark

Makes the NOx display dim and more blurry so it fuses a bit better with PVS14. Not sure if this will help you but it helps me fuse the image better. Could be subjective preferences. I'd try two of the same filters like SSNV SNB filter.

To NUC while scanning I reach up between the PVS14 with my left thump and hit the NUC button while simultaneously covering the lens with my pointer and middle finger of left hand.

To adjust settings I use my right hand for a bit more dexterity. I don't have to flip either unit to side to access NOx controls and I have a COTI on the PVS14 (it's dumb I know).
You really only need access to the front and top/bottom buttons which I reach by curling my pointer finger into the space between the units from the front underside of the NOx.

 

[YotieJ]

I finally got mine and I couldn't be happier with the unit. Went out the other night and made a few sets. Image quality is great. The only thing I noticed with mine is the battery indicator didn't seem to show correct battery % while running the 18750. Showed full but then died suddenly after about 6 hrs or so of use. Not a big deal to me because im running it on a helmet with an ext battery.

 

[Hoyter87]

I finally got mine and I couldn't be happier with the unit. Went out the other night and made a few sets. Image quality is great. The only thing I noticed with mine is the battery indicator didn't seem to show correct battery % while running the 18750. Showed full but then died suddenly after about 6 hrs or so of use. Not a big deal to me because im running it on a helmet with an ext battery.

There is a setting to change it to 18650 battery for power display.

 

[Jim Out]

Thanks wig. Kind of misspoke there about why would anybody do this. Just meant that it felt unnatural for lack of a better word. There was a big difference from sitting around to moving around. And the visual of looking through a square and round hole at the same time is kind of wonky. But I totally see the upside. That’s why I’m hoping to make it work.

Totally agree on the brightness thing but the controls on the Nox on the right eye are hard to get to with the 14 down on the left. I’m actually kind of slapping myself stupid for not thinking to swing the 14 out and make some adjusts with more room. Also some illumination would have probably helped too but I’ve misplaced the Luna somewhere for the time being.

Lastly I’m not trying to bring anybody down about this idea. Just trying to point out some issues a guy without a bunch of experience is having and transitioning to a new platform so to speak. I’ve always gone weapon mounted and hand spotter. Never the helmet route. But have dreamed of going dual band ever since the breach came out.

Sorry if this is a stupid question.

What exactly prevents the NOx from being run as-is on the left eye?

Why is it necessary to flip the dovetail/rifle mounts just to switch eyes?

Is this a bridge specific problem and if so is there a bridge which eliminates the problem........yet?

Is it more of an IPD problem?

I want to be able to pop the NOx off helmet and use the pic mount.

I looked at double dovetails but I'm not sophisticated enough to understand the "why" of switching eye locations.

 

[Max_R]

Sorry if this is a stupid question.

What exactly prevents the NOx from being run as-is on the left eye?

Why is it necessary to flip the dovetail/rifle mounts just to switch eyes?

Is this a bridge specific problem and if so is there a bridge which eliminates the problem........yet?

Is it more of an IPD problem?

I want to be able to pop the NOx off helmet and use the pic mount.

I looked at double dovetails but I'm not sophisticated enough to understand the "why" of switching eye locations.

It's not a stupid question; it is an excellent question. Flipping the mount is not a "must-have" for use on the left eye. However, there are a few considerations in favor of flipping the mount for the left eye use:

1. If the NOX is dual-mounted with another NOX or something like a PVS-14 and both are used at the same time, the flipping of the dovetail mount to the weapon mount side will help to avoid interference of the left-eye NOX's battery compartment with the device on the right eye, will ensure that devices are not tilted too much and the IPD is not too large.

2. For right-handed users, it may be beneficial to have buttons facing right (this is the case even if the NOX
is used on the right eye).

I hope this makes sense.

 

[texasleftychef]

Thanks for that explanation Max. But flipping it around eliminates the weapon mount to be used too doesnt it? I’ve been wondering since my first post. I thought it said if you flip the dove tail around you can’t use the weapon mount on that side.

Ie Im left eye dominant and have always heard in the dual band setups to run thermal on the weak eye and 14 on the dominant eye. So I’m running 14 left and Nox right. Which works fine with leaving the weapons mount on there. My understanding is that if I flip the Nox and put the dovetail onto the other side the controls would be on the outside which would be awesome but I’d lose the ability to keep the weapons mount on there.

I’ve wondered about this some from the first day and when I read the instructions. And while the right eye guys may go 14 right and Nox left they still probably need to flip it too or the battery containers are are awefully close.

Like I said maybe wrong and hope I am. Just trying to learn how to best use the system and get some information out there to the guys being one of the first to have one or at least post some thoughts.

Here is a pic. Granted the units are close on the bridge because I was trying for the unified view but maybe give you guys an idea. Maybe can be fixed with the Knights OSS on the 14 on the left eye but as previously stated I’m newb on anything to do with a helmet.

 

[Jim Out]

I know I'm really stupid, but...

Right side mount means: operate the controls from the middle?

Using "knife hand insertion technique" to access the controls?

like this:

Left eye mount, left hand control operation for the NOx

Isn't the problem the PVS14 dovetail?

 

[Jim Out]

 

[texasleftychef]

Edited.

Lol. After reading again it’s something like that. I have to like any three stooges references too . Bravo.

 

[drenglish]

I got my NOX18 in a few nights ago and my mind is blown. This is my first experience with thermal and I’m a happy camper who hasn’t even realized this thermal’s full potential yet.

I got out for about 30 minutes on two different nights, high humidity, cold, windy, just overall gross conditions for ME to be in. Again, first go around with thermal but I was really impressed in what may have been less than ideal conditions for the unit. Cranking up CE let’s you see all the terrain details which is nice and I need more experience with these settings BUT I found lowering the CE and brightness allowed for an almost uninterrupted view of my PVS-14. Only hot spots popped (electrical boxes, deer, cats, etc.). Worked well for me.

If I cranked up the details to where the image would be suitable for navigating with it caused a conflict to where if I blinked my dominate eye, instantly my brain would switch over to non dominate image (thermal) and blink that eye and then switch back. Cool in a way, but with the limited time on this setup I think I’d prefer the PVS-14 (L3 UF WP) with thermal highlights being “on demand” as they happen across my view. Will report back as I gain more experience.

Awesome technology. Being able to see deer 400+ yards on the other side of a tree line would not have been possible with I2 night vision.

Question for all you thermal experts: how frequently do you have to NUC? Is it constant though out the night or when conditions change quickly on you? Or as the unit is changing from indoor temps to outdoors? I noticed my first outing with this unit I had to NUC a few times early on, not terrible to have to do...but would like to know if it’s something that happens beyond the first 30 minutes of runtime.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Question for all you thermal experts: how frequently do you have to NUC? Is it constant though out the night or when conditions change quickly on you? Or as the unit is changing from indoor temps to outdoors? I noticed my first outing with this unit I had to NUC a few times early on, not terrible to have to do...but would like to know if it’s something that happens beyond the first 30 minutes of runtime.

Conditions change invariably throughout the night and require either an adjustment to settings (gain, NUC). On Average, I NUC a considerable amount in the first 30 minutes out of habit. After that, it's becomes much more sparingly.

If you're coming from inside a warm home or truck, into a colder atmosphere outside, it will require more NUC'ing. If the thermal is at the same relative temp as it is outside, NUC's are few and far.

 

[drenglish]

SkyScrapin,

Thank you. I’ll need to get out and get beyond 30 minute warm up time here real soon (tonight) and maybe snap some photos for this thread.

 

[stefan73]

Max, I'm learning or trying to. So do you expect to see Chalcogenide lenses become more the norm over Germanium lenses as the result of gaining athermalization?

 

[texasleftychef]

I nuc a bunch. Like everybody else the first part of the night. Every time I change a setting. Every time I think the image is degrading. Every time I feel that there has been some sort of weather shift like drop in temp or an increase in wind. Probably eats more battery but it’s not like it costs anything.

I run butler creek ocular caps on both of my Reaps so I just close the cap nuc and hit the button to open. I’m new to the hand cover option so getting to used to that too. I think most of the guys here are already just using hands so they are more familiar with that method than me.

 

[wigwamitus]

... I nuc a bunch ...

I nuc the sh^t out of it ... depending on conditions ... I'll nuc 1-2 times for every 360 with the utc-x ...

With my 360s I'm looking both up hill and down hill ... the up hill part catches the sky where its -60F ... that throws off the heat map and generate at least one nuc.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Max, I'm learning or trying to. So do you expect to see Chalcogenide lenses become more the norm over Germanium lenses as the result of gaining athermalization?

You made me go to the Dic-shun-ary with athermalization.

I learn something new every day.

 

[Max_R]

Max, I'm learning or trying to. So do you expect to see Chalcogenide lenses become more the norm over Germanium lenses as the result of gaining athermalization?

@stefan73, chalcogenide lenses are widely available today. However, choosing the right lens is a system-level question, and it's always a compromise. Chalcogenide is great because of its thermal stability and no need for athermalization. However, "light" loss in the chalcogenide lenses is about 10% higher than in Germanium lenses. This leads to a need for a larger lens aperture (smaller F-number). Increased size comes with, obviously, size, weight, and cost penalties. The cost of the smaller (under 1" dia) chalcogenide lenses is very attractive because they can be molded. But Germanium and chalcogenide lenses that are over 1" dia cost about the same, and both have to be machined (diamond-turned). Athermalization mechanics in Germanium lenses is annoying and adds some weight and size but not much cost. That's theory. In practice, we test many chalcogenide and Germanium lenses from different manufacturers before picking one for our product. We've seen some excellent small chalcogenide lenses (NOX18 is a good example). So far, I have not seen any larger chalcogenide lenses on par with their better Germanium counterparts. Possibly, over time chalcogenide-type material properties will improve, and chalcogenide lenses will take over Germanium, but it's hard for me to say when/if this is going to happen. Sorry for the very long answer to a short question, but design decisions are not very straightforward.

 

[drmarc]

Sorry I'm such a rube but wtf is NUC?

 

[wigwamitus]

Non Uniformity Correction

aka

Flat Field Correction


In user terms = Recalibrating the thermal to improve the image.

 

[stefan73]

@stefan73, chalcogenide lenses are widely available today. However, choosing the right lens is a system-level question, and it's always a compromise. Chalcogenide is great because of its thermal stability and no need for athermalization. However, "light" loss in the chalcogenide lenses is about 10% higher than in Germanium lenses. This leads to a need for a larger lens aperture (smaller F-number). Increased size comes with, obviously, size, weight, and cost penalties. The cost of the smaller (under 1" dia) chalcogenide lenses is very attractive because they can be molded. But Germanium and chalcogenide lenses that are over 1" dia cost about the same, and both have to be machined (diamond-turned). Athermalization mechanics in Germanium lenses is annoying and adds some weight and size but not much cost. That's theory. In practice, we test many chalcogenide and Germanium lenses from different manufacturers before picking one for our product. We've seen some excellent small chalcogenide lenses (NOX18 is a good example). So far, I have not seen any larger chalcogenide lenses on par with their better Germanium counterparts. Possibly, over time chalcogenide-type material properties will improve, and chalcogenide lenses will take over Germanium, but it's hard for me to say when/if this is going to happen. Sorry for the very long answer to a short question, but design decisions are not very straightforward.

Thank you for the response, I'll take the long answer. I am very interested in learning about these systems.