NRA Range officer class; are you kidding me?

[TheGerman]

May have to take an NRA range safety officer class coming up as a side requirement of something I am doing.

This will be interesting. I'll go in with an open mind and plan to say absolutely nothing because I've always associated the people who were 'safety officers' as total fucking tools; in my lifetime I am at about 90% correct with this, so far. But anyways, I was looking online trying to see what they even went over and noticed something -

The fucking class is from 845am to 630pm. What in the fuck could you possibly be talking about that long? What goes on there? I can't think of ANYTHING I could, or would want to discuss for TEN HOURS with someone. TEN HOURS. TEN. Like is there someone talking, and then someone does it in sign language, spanish, french and chinese?

If you were to tell me, go over every basic safety instruction you could think of after years in the military, I'd probably come up with MAYBE an hour and half of material, possibly two if there were some people who only understood picture diagrams or some shit. Seriously...what in the fuck do they go over for this insane amount of time? I'm already picturing myself drawing pictures of every unsafe thing I could think of on my notebook after hour 2 of this thing.

What. The. Fuck.

 

[hic28]

 

[308pirate]

Repeat after me: LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR.

I don't sign up for anything that requires stupid shit like that unless there's a huge payoff for me in it.

 

[MtnCreek]

I've sat through 10 hr OSHA classes, so no sympathy from me.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Repeat after me: LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR.

I don't sign up for anything that requires stupid shit like that unless there's a huge payoff for me in it.

^^^^
This.


If it isn't that ^^^, then they will pattern it after a military speech.

The first three hours they're gonna tell you what they're gonna tell you.

The second three hours, they're gonna tell you.

A one hour lunch break.

The last three hours, they're gonna tell you what they told you.

 

[diverdon]

Be glad that there is no fee. There is no fee, right? In order for students to believe it has value they either have to pay dearly for it or suffer greatly. It looks like the default here is suffer greatly.

 

[Fig]

 

[Badfinger]

I took the NRA shotgun instructor course and it was okay, learned a couple of things. For work I had to do the 40 hour OSHA class and then send all 35 of my salaried maintenance staff. $$

 

[Jrb572]

I’ve sat through an NRA range officer class . It was boring and they made us do role play. If someone does this what should you do. It was a requirement for my range to be able to shoot in restricted areas for range officers. Plus now I really don’t have to listen to the other range officers.

Yes it cost money if you want the certificate. Believe it’s $50. My range does not require us to get the certificate

 

[lash]

I took it so that we wouldn’t be questioned when we run our LR matches. Yes, it is boring. And yes you will want to shoot yourself, but just know that there will be people there that fail the test at the end. At least the first time until the instructor walks them through the test.

I don’t have or wear a t-shirt or hat, but now when some asshat asks if there is a range safety officer present at our matches, I have the card to show that we do. Don’t get me wrong, we take the safety of everyone at our matches very seriously. Now there are a couple of us with the certs to show just in case.

 

[Snuby642]

It is a recognized standard, normaly to meet insurance requierments.
I have nra shotgun and handgun certs my wife is an rso.

That doesn't mean better than anyone, just met requierments for insurance,
Even for volunteers at events.

Sit back and enjoy the stupid questions from some that will be there.
I actualy saw an instructor fail a student in rifle class.
The instructor offered free help and a retest but could no longer hold back the rest of the class.

 

[Huskydriver]

Most insurance companies for gun ranges etc REQUIRE NRA certification to be covered for liability just and FYI. I agree its dumb but if someone decides its their or someone else's day to die at the range at the end of the day, the guy with the most liability is left holding the bag when lawyers get involved...dont be the guy left holding the bag.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I"ve 'acted' as RSO a number of times, at a number of ranges. Simply by others asking me if I'd be willing to do so. Those others "know me and my history". I have ALWAYS said that "I'm not certified here" but that didn't matter to them. They wanted somebody to have their back, and I did it.

And yet on the RARE occasion that there is offered an OAFficial Range Safety Officer's Course I have put my hat in the ring a few times. Each time it was ignored. When I specifically asked about getting certification, just for general diligence, I was told "the slots here are VERY tight and the chances of me getting in are minute. That, and any possible certification I might acquire here will be of no use to me anywhere else, because said certifications aren't transferable.

I've known for years that the president of the long range club doesn't like me. I still don't know why. But dayummmm, what a line of shit to spew, so others in the sport AND who want to continue supporting said sport.

I'm not gettin' it, that's for sure.

And yet some of the other guys, still ask me, Whenever the pres, is not around. (small p on PurPose) I'm there for long range performance, not romance. To hell with him.

 

[Fig]

If you're not into range politics you must not be a very big deal.

 

[2ndamendfan]

I have gotten into USPSA this year and the little club I go to struggles to have enough RO's each match. So I said I would take the USPSA RO class (sure itbis NRA+ USPSA rules).
They have to fly the USPSA intructors in. Schedule is friday Nov 9th 4:00-9:00pm
Saturday Nov 10th 8am-5pm
That is a lot of talking, I feel your pain.

 

[Huskydriver]

I have gotten into USPSA this year and the little club I go to struggles to have enough RO's each match. So I said I would take the USPSA RO class (sure itbis NRA+ USPSA rules).
They have to fly the USPSA intructors in. Schedule is friday Nov 9th 4:00-9:00pm
Saturday Nov 10th 8am-5pm
That is a lot of talking, I feel your pain.

Which club do you shoot at if you dont mind me asking?

 

[Redmanss]

The RSO class I wrote for my old company was a five day curriculum. It went very in depth of the weaponry we were issued, and I would spend at least two hours per weapon on how to safely clear all potential malfunctions including squibs, ruptured cases, runaway guns, etc, as well as the detailed pre-fire inspections required to the weapons before conducting training right along with how to closely watch for the signs of things about to go bad while firing. Then we got into working with people on the line, how to properly set up and execute a full course of fire, rules for qualifications, etc. It ended off with a full day of qualifying over a hundred shooters across several relays. By the time I was done with them, they were very competent in running a safe and efficient range, but I most commonly heard back from my students that my course needed to be longer.

I've been told more than a few times that my two plus decades as a professional weapons carrier and instructor, including two years running a safe range at Parris Island and my three years as a full time instructor while contracting along with the several other weapon courses I've taken over the years in the military and otherwise, don't come close to qualifying me to act as an RSO or civilian instructor in the US on the ranges because the NRA didn't teach me. Whatever, I therefore refuse to play their reindeer games and I'm running full solo these days, my time on a range is 100% for me and my family, nobody else gets shit from me anymore. I can guarantee it's their loss.

 

[lash]

The RSO class I wrote for my old company was a five day curriculum. It went very in depth of the weaponry we were issued, and I would spend at least two hours per weapon on how to safely clear all potential malfunctions including squibs, ruptured cases, runaway guns, etc, as well as the detailed pre-fire inspections required to the weapons before conducting training right along with how to closely watch for the signs of things about to go bad while firing. Then we got into working with people on the line, how to properly set up and execute a full course of fire, rules for qualifications, etc. It ended off with a full day of qualifying over a hundred shooters across several relays. By the time I was done with them, they were very competent in running a safe and efficient range, but I most commonly heard back from my students that my course needed to be longer.

I've been told more than a few times that my two plus decades as a professional weapons carrier and instructor, including two years running a safe range at Parris Island and my three years as a full time instructor while contracting along with the several other weapon courses I've taken over the years in the military and otherwise, don't come close to qualifying me to act as an RSO or civilian instructor in the US on the ranges because the NRA didn't teach me. Whatever, I therefore refuse to play their reindeer games and I'm running full solo these days, my time on a range is 100% for me and my family, nobody else gets shit from me anymore. I can guarantee it's their loss.

There’s no doubt about that!

 

[2ndamendfan]

Which club do you shoot at if you dont mind me asking?

CAPS in Logan about a 45 min drive but SLC is 30. There is one in Kaysville every month but I dont feel like possibly dealing with a couple douche bags I know that might go to that one. I go to Logan to get away and relax for a few hours if that makes sense.

 

[Huskydriver]

Interesting a buddy was trying to get me to shoot the ones in Kaysville good to know. Have you shot any out at Lee Kay in SLC?

 

[12Bravo]

The RSO class I wrote for my old company was a five day curriculum. It went very in depth of the weaponry we were issued, and I would spend at least two hours per weapon on how to safely clear all potential malfunctions including squibs, ruptured cases, runaway guns, etc, as well as the detailed pre-fire inspections required to the weapons before conducting training right along with how to closely watch for the signs of things about to go bad while firing. Then we got into working with people on the line, how to properly set up and execute a full course of fire, rules for qualifications, etc. It ended off with a full day of qualifying over a hundred shooters across several relays. By the time I was done with them, they were very competent in running a safe and efficient range, but I most commonly heard back from my students that my course needed to be longer.

I've been told more than a few times that my two plus decades as a professional weapons carrier and instructor, including two years running a safe range at Parris Island and my three years as a full time instructor while contracting along with the several other weapon courses I've taken over the years in the military and otherwise, don't come close to qualifying me to act as an RSO or civilian instructor in the US on the ranges because the NRA didn't teach me. Whatever, I therefore refuse to play their reindeer games and I'm running full solo these days, my time on a range is 100% for me and my family, nobody else gets shit from me anymore. I can guarantee it's their loss.

One of the things the NRA is very good at is trying to separate people from their money.

 

[Redmanss]

One of the things the NRA is very good at is trying to separate people from their money.

That they are, part of why my phone number in their system is 800-555-1212.

I have nothing wrong with the NRA as a whole. Hell, I'm a Benefactor level member so obviously I support them. It's just that the NRA training is very substandard in my eyes, yet everyone across America considers it to be some kind of gold standard and the bar for entry. It's kind of like when I had to go to the concealed handgun course in Tennessee, meanwhile I was a firearms instructor on a DoS project in Afghanistan. I already knew the law there, so I got absolutely nothing from that course other than a rubber stamped certificate so I could get my CWP. I guarantee with 99.9% certainty that any NRA taught RSO course I walked into I would have supervised more rounds downrange than the entire instructor staff combined, most likely in quadruple if not more, because I'm in the eight figure range there with up to fifty shooters firing at a time.

If the NRA presented legitimate courses of instruction that was less than a joke of a timeframe I would pay good money to get certified, but they just don't. I'd drive down to the Whittington Center to do a real Range Master type course that delved into the legal matters of operating a range as well as an in depth look at the safe operation of all firearm types if they offered one, but that course doesn't even exist.

I have no real need for those types of credentials any more, at least at this point in time, as I've left professional gun toting behind me and I'm back to carrying a gun for personal fun and protection once again. Maybe next year when I try to put together an Appleseed event here in my small town at our range they will require me to get something like that, but it definitely won't be with a smile on my face.

 

[MtnCreek]

@Redmanss Thanks for planning to do an Appleseed. That means a lot more to the cause than sending the NRA some money.

 

[FatBoy]

@Redmanss,

not sure about your range but if they have insurance through the NRA, someone there will be an NRA qualified RSO or the range (or organization) risks losing their insurance.

I took the course 15 years ago. It was $50 or $100. Took 4 hours. They just run through a book basically. It not sold as some awesome course. It's sold as a requirement. As far as I know it is the only standard recognized nationwide. Again, not implying it holds a candle for anyone who's ran .mil live fire training BUT is is the only civilian standard, thus required unless the club can self insure.

I renewed mine once and after 10 years of running matches I said fuck it. Eventually, pushing the string got to me... Got roped back in to be a treasurer for our 501 3c. Fucking hate it, but if guys like us (I'll loosely associate us as we have both ran ranges) don't step up to do the unpleasantness required to occupy military ranges (Our home range is owned by USAF and managed by TNNG) people don't get to shoot. Without a 501 3C and NRA RSO we can't get insurance or access to the range. 99% sure the appleseed program they run there is the same.

 

[Dewey7271]

If you’re already certified in one of the firearms disciplines with the NRA you can do RSO online.
https://onlinetraining.nra.org/online-courses/nra-range-safety-officer-course/


Edit; just realized after reading more that may not apply.

 

[Unknown]

Requiring safety training is usually to reduce liability exposure. IOW, the agency sending you for the training is hoping that by requiring you to attend this training, the chances that they will have to put out money will be reduced.

After all the training and exposure that OP mentions, I agree with his assessment that there is probably not that much that will be new for him. I did range officer training courses from the NRA, the police academy, department of corrections, Sheriff's department, State Corrections Department, and IPSC. These courses varied from one day to two weeks.

OP is also correct t that he could probably reduce the training time. If I hand selected some of the shooters I used to compete with, or work with teaching firearms, I could probably cover the necessary information for a specific range in 1-2 hours, with most of that time spent on actual range operation rather than the safety that I know they all possess...although the 4 basic rules are always covered.

However, most training is geared for the lowest possible (the dumbest) denominator, so the training has to repeat, repeat, and repeat again, and tell students about the four basic safety rules 47 different ways in the hopes that they just might remember it once. Much is also to talk about specific range or training requirements that relate to the immediate agency, or issue at hand.

After serving as a senior firearms instructor for a state law enforcement training facility, I can assure you that the VAST majority of students who claim to be experienced shooters vastly over state their experience, competence, and knowledge. Males are far worse about this than females. Being an experienced shooter usually means they went hunting a couple of times with a borrowed 30-30 that they never even zeroed prior to hunting season. If you asked them the distance at which the rifle was zeroed, and how much it dropped at 250 yards, they probably couldn't tell me.

I don't doubt OP's claims of competence and experience. I think OP doesn't realize how very few of the other people who claim to be experienced actually share his knowledge base, therefore making required range officer training important. I found the best way for me to handle these mandatory training sessions is to keep my mouth shut, don't volunteer, don't call attention to myself, and use the breaks to try and meet other competent attendees. Once in a while, the instructor/s will surprise me with something new and/or interesting.

 

[TheGerman]

Do the Appleseed in southern Utah.

I'll come and bring a fucking K98 or something

 

[...]

After going through NRA pistol instructor training..... I’m convinced most of the people had less than 1 yrs experience around firearms.

I legit had to explain to one guy how a revolver worked.

And a good portion had trouble with the shooting quality..... which was maintaining a 6” group at 15 yards.

 

[MtnCreek]

^ Wear dot camo and get someone to film it.

 

[Rthur]

^ Wear dot camo and get someone to film it.

As in "Flecktarn"?

R

 

[...]

As in "Flecktarn"?

R

its called FASHION

 

[Fig]

"Dot Cammo"... LOL

More like sequin cammo!

The purse makes that RO uniform.

 

[Rthur]

WTF...
The handbag and shorts make a solid ensamble.
The dots seem to make me angry.

R

 

[Fig]

Technically they're called "anger beads". Not only does the pattern break up your outline in woodland areas, but the beads enrage and confuse your enemies causing them to make tactical mistakes.

 

[MtnCreek]

As in "Flecktarn"?

R

44 Dot would add to the intrigue.

 

[hermosabeach]

Basic tenant - start at zero- cover everything

Or go from a Known to an unknown

Keep an open mind -

 

[MtnCreek]

Technically they're called "anger beads". Not only does the pattern break up your outline in woodland areas, but the beads enrage and confuse your enemies causing them to make tactical mistakes.

That couple of seconds of WTF can get you killed. Some are immune to it and would shoot on site just for being a beaddazzled fairy.

 

[hermosabeach]

Most shooting schools have you take pistol 1 as the first class.

Same type of thing

 

[Fig]

 

[Fig]

That couple of seconds of WTF can get you killed. Some are immune to it and would shoot on site just for being a beaddazzled fairy.

It's like the Chi based and pressure point kung-fu. You have to believe in it for it to work.

 

[Fig]

Basic tenant - start at zero- cover everything

Or go from a Known to an unknown

Keep an open mind -

I've taken my fair share of remedial classes for something in which I'm actually an expert. I have to do 12 hours of continuing education every year, and have been doing it for 20 years most of the time taking the same classes. It's stupid, but it's the law.

If it's THAT remedial perhaps there ought to be levels.

 

[Redmanss]

Do the Appleseed in southern Utah.

I'll come and bring a fucking K98 or something

Make a trip up to the Wyoming Black Hills next year, if you haven't been here before you certainly won't regret it. I have a long way to go to get there, I've never even shot an Appleseed event much less have my instructor cert for it, but it's something the USMC Scout Sniper Assoc. is involved with as we see the value in teaching basic marksmanship to as many Americans as possible. The events are fairly sparse in this corner of the US, maybe that's just because we're at the end of the normal shooting season for fair weather folks, so I'll have to see how fast I can get one put together.

 

[quietmike]

Had "one of those" classes today.
Instructor says that metric rounds are better because a 9mm round and barrel are actually 9mm, while imperial measurements are designed with "slop" between barrel and bullet. He said it went back to muzzle loaders having to allow for patching material.
Then he talks about how some rounds are flat shooting, while others arc up after leaving the barrel.

Had to bite my tongue, and get my ticket punched for the class.

 

[Foul Mike]

Hard to stay quiet then isn't it?
The sad thing is that some of those dummies leave there believing that whole bin of shit. FM

 

[Sieg]

I had to take an 8 hour class on lift truck/fork lift safety for a Yale 3 wheeled lift truck I'd been operating for over 30 years. None on the material in the course even came close to our applications. None, zip, nada, zero.

It's all about the fees and program development budgets IMO.

 

[lash]

Had "one of those" classes today.
Instructor says that metric rounds are better because a 9mm round and barrel are actually 9mm, while imperial measurements are designed with "slop" between barrel and bullet. He said it went back to muzzle loaders having to allow for patching material.
Then he talks about how some rounds are flat shooting, while others arc up after leaving the barrel.

Had to bite my tongue, and get my ticket punched for the class.

I would definitely have had a hard time keeping quiet with that level of ignorance being spewed. But I do understand about getting credit for the class.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Just take the pain.

 

[Redmanss]

Had "one of those" classes today.
Instructor says that metric rounds are better because a 9mm round and barrel are actually 9mm, while imperial measurements are designed with "slop" between barrel and bullet. He said it went back to muzzle loaders having to allow for patching material.
Then he talks about how some rounds are flat shooting, while others arc up after leaving the barrel.

Had to bite my tongue, and get my ticket punched for the class.

Raise the bullshit flag as much as you can now that you have your cert. Instructors like that need to be pulled from spreading unsafe bullshit.

 

[Clearlight]

Aye, as mentioned above it’s geared toward the LCD and not someone with your skill set. Insurance,
OHS and all that BS takes precedence over your prior learning unfortunately. I RO at a few local
ranges to help out, and the level of retardation is epic amongst both the ROs and the general shooting
public.

When I’m working RO, if I get just one or two other ex SF or even ex regulars rostered on with me, we
can run the line like a Swiss watch. I’ve seen 6 total goobers rostered on together, and the range was
on the verge of chaos..... Eat the poo sandwich, embrace the suck and bask in your superior mojo.

 

[Redmanss]

If it is geared towards the lowest common denominator, it should be a week or two long instead of a day. It's a joke and quite frankly, dangerously under instructed. A safety officer must be ready to handle a multitude of situations, not just know how to look downrange to see if anyone is still putting up a target before calling the range hot (which they still fuck up on a regular basis).