NRL Hunter One
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Sounds like either a poorly run match or spineless ROs. I can guarantee you when I RO @hic28 match, I’m not putting up with that shit.
I've RO'd a couple of matches. 99% of the shooters are doing it right. I didn't see any issues in the Heartland Harvester match, but, I was stuck on one stage. I guess I'd advise if you see violations happening, please bring it up to an RO or the MD. I did see issues at the finale that I hope get addressed in the future.
Hopefully NRL Hunter One allows the format to expand. I'm not stuck on the tangent of solving any "gamer" issues. If it's not against the rules, I don't see the issue. What I do appreciate about the hunter format is the emphasis on more skills besides shooting. Also, having some movement and problem solving on the stages is fun. The use of more practical rifles is a good change, and I'm saying that having played the dasher game.
I generally think this is good for the shooting community. There's not enough shooters to realistically have two competing entities in the same space. PRS can run the race gun series and NRL has the hunter. In my eyes, having shot both, they're two completely different games.
Only thing I'd disagree with is the commentary on what people keep calling a "practical" rifle. Everything is practical if you're willing to carry it. Tyler Hughes runs around Competition Dynamics matches with a 25 lb rifle and does well.
If someone wants to hump around extra weight, they should be free to; they'll pay for it one way or another over the course of the match. Just make it a longer distance from start to firing position, and they'll (theoretically) want to go lighter soon enough.
So here we are again, bitching about equipment cost, equipment practicality, equipment weight, next thing you know someone is going to start bitching about a light trigger being used in NRL Hunter.
When will the bleeding end?
It's a free country, use what you have, or what you can afford. Who cares what the other guy is using?
I honestly believe the people on here constantly complaining about everything can't shoot well, and their excuse always is... it's not fair, someone else that scored higher than me has a lighter, more expensive price of equipment, blah, blah, blah.
And just an FYI, I'm shooting NRL Hunter this season, and will be using an aluminum Manfrotto Tripod I bought used for less than $300. I can afford a RRS CF tripod, but I choose what I choose because it works best for me.
So, someone tell me, in real life what hunting laws limit equipment based on cost, or being too light, or not being practical? Hunters choose what they want, or what they can afford.
All I can say is stop whining, and go shoot.
When will the bleeding end?
It's a free country, use what you have, or what you can afford. Who cares what the other guy is using?
I honestly believe the people on here constantly complaining about everything can't shoot well, and their excuse always is... it's not fair, someone else that scored higher than me has a lighter, more expensive price of equipment, blah, blah, blah.
And just an FYI, I'm shooting NRL Hunter this season, and will be using an aluminum Manfrotto Tripod I bought used for less than $300. I can afford a RRS CF tripod, but I choose what I choose because it works best for me.
So, someone tell me, in real life what hunting laws limit equipment based on cost, or being too light, or not being practical? Hunters choose what they want, or what they can afford.
All I can say is stop whining, and go shoot.
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I'm pretty certain he runs a CF barreled 6 creed for CD matches; at least the SAC. I've shot around him at other CD matches and he was using a steel barrel, but I think for the fast and long rucks, he runs a CF barrel.
I'm not sure this is general knowledge, but you can always shoot the match as a skills match if your rifle doesn't make weight or power factor. You can run whatever you want for a reduced fee, I think like $100, you just can't walk the prize table. It's actually a really good deal for people wanting to shoot for the match quality you typically get.
One day matches should be the rule, not the exception. Again look at IDPA and USPSA for examples of how it's done.
Agree. It's a game. Stage procedures need some thought into it. So do the equipment rules in the NRL rulebook.
Leaving a wide open rulebook and that says "MD can make up anything he wants re equipment restrictions" pisses people like me off
The power factor concept is a great example of how you can take an existing concept from another shooting sport. And it works very well to place a boundary around equipment.
I'd like to see something, anything, in my neck of the woods. Lots of PRL rimfire and NRL22 tho.
I think with the skills entry you still get a meal or two and get to shoot the 18 stages. Just saying, it's far more than just a club match shoot. It would be like shooting 2 club matches with meals included, so that's going to run you $100 no matter how you slice it.
Edited to add: I'm in 100% agreement with you on the one day match format with reduced entry fees. My main bitch with PRS and NRL has been the cost to play and the time it takes. It's nearly impossible to convince new shooters to spend $250 entry for a weekend, take 2 days of work off, plus meal and hotel costs. I can only shoot a handful of two day matches each year myself. I can see a finale being two day, but other than that, there's just no reason.
The hunter matches are nice because they generally have a very good flow without all the group think going on. It's not hard to run 12-15 stages in one day if the MD has the stages designed correctly and the shooters aren't dicking around.
Edited to add: I'm in 100% agreement with you on the one day match format with reduced entry fees. My main bitch with PRS and NRL has been the cost to play and the time it takes. It's nearly impossible to convince new shooters to spend $250 entry for a weekend, take 2 days of work off, plus meal and hotel costs. I can only shoot a handful of two day matches each year myself. I can see a finale being two day, but other than that, there's just no reason.
The hunter matches are nice because they generally have a very good flow without all the group think going on. It's not hard to run 12-15 stages in one day if the MD has the stages designed correctly and the shooters aren't dicking around.
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The skills division fee was $100 lower than the regular match fee for both matches I’m signed up for. I’m shooting skills in both because, well, I suck at shooting and don’t need anything from a prize table anyway. I just like being outside shooting guns with my friends, and I’m perfectly happy with that.
Are they pulling bullets and chronographing? If not then that’s another pointless rule.
You don't have to, just look at their dope card, or ballistics program, and see what they're using for data.
Guess I don't understand how it's pointless. As a match director you're relying somewhat on the shooter's integrity, just as you're relying on it they won't shoot someone purposely.
Also, each rifle is chronographed and results recorded. If someone said they are running a 140 gr in their creed and they chronographed at 2,900+, I think there would be questions to be answered.
If you really want to cheat, you can usually find a way.
PRS does have the regional 1 day series across the country. You could shoot only these 1 day matches and still qualify for the Finale. I think it’s a good concept; the AZLRPRS crew seems to have it down really well in the Southwest with strong attendance.
I guess you have a lot more faith in people than I do. Give people a way to cheat and they will.
I mean, other than weight, it’s far from a level playing field. Just think about Someone running factory Remington ammo going up against a guy handloading 153 ATIPs. “Cheating” is pretty subjective anyways.
And this is why I'm in favor of prize tables disappearing, or, at least, the format being changed. Heartland Harvester last year was random draw. It was said up front so everyone knew. When there's no incentive to cheat, cheating goes away.
Also, you would not believe how the shooters attitudes changed knowing they were shooting for a place, not a prize. Saying it was refreshing is a crude understatement.
As Yoteski said, you have to rely on people's integrity. If you suspect someone is cheating, you have the RO pull their Dope card as they finish the stage, no one is going to be using a fake Dope card while shooting. Another way is to pull a random round from every competitor, put it in a ziplock bag with their name. At the end of the match, you can check it if there's a reason.
So now we're complaining about someone hand loading vs using factory ammo? Another unfair advantage?
Maybe start a new series.
Rifle must cost less than $500, must use factory ammo, no CF barrels, and all optics must be "Made in China" or you have to save your receipt showing you paid less than $250.
Dude I didnt complain about gucci gear at all, or that it should be banned. I said it was a gear race, and that people should be free to shoot whatever they want, they just have to carry it. The reality is that people will game NRL Hunter just as much as any other competition out there.
Try to keep up.
Ok, so then what's your definition of "Gaming"? Is hand loading your ammo gaming it? Is paying $3500 for a pair of Leica LRF binoculars gaming it? Is using a RRS tripod gaming it? Is having a custom rifle built with CF barrel gaming it? If so, then a Hunter who goes for a Elk hunt with that same gear I just mentioned must be gaming it also?
Either you use the equipment allowed per the rules, or you don't. There's no grey area called gaming it that somehow fits within the rules, but doesn't.
How many hunters are really rolling around on a hunt with a RRS tripod, tac table, Schmedium bag, and triple pull ckyepod? Do some guys do that? Sure. But 99% of hunters don’t. And you need to shoot more matches if you don’t understand the concept of gaming, which is still allowed under the rules.
Since you don't want to give us your definition of "Gaming", I'll give you mine.
Gaming, a derogatory term used by someone who feels hurt that someone thought of a way to adapt, overcome, and succeed at a task, before they could think of it. The person who failed or had difficulty succeeding at the task then creates much drama, trying to derail the glory of those who are smarter, quicker, or have a higher skill set than them by calling those who succeeded a gamer, or implying that somehow they cheated, even though they still followed the rules.
Gaming, a derogatory term used by someone who feels hurt that someone thought of a way to adapt, overcome, and succeed at a task, before they could think of it. The person who failed or had difficulty succeeding at the task then creates much drama, trying to derail the glory of those who are smarter, quicker, or have a higher skill set than them by calling those who succeeded a gamer, or implying that somehow they cheated, even though they still followed the rules.
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Regardless of all the semantics going on, I'm pumped for Heartland Harvester! If you're going to be there PM me; I'll buy you a beer. (Hopefully I don't get 50 PMs)
Go shoot in the skills division. Match fee is half, just no points or prize table.
As far as weight rules, 16 lbs is Idaho state law.
As far as NRL one. Does not appear to be any power factor. Only weight and velocity cap. Supposed to be a match that can be run anywhere, to get guys involved who do want to shoot PRS and practice for the NRL hunter matches. Big issue i see with hunter matches, a guy who is struggling, has no help or guidance. NRL one should make more of an open format.
As far as NRL one. Does not appear to be any power factor. Only weight and velocity cap. Supposed to be a match that can be run anywhere, to get guys involved who do want to shoot PRS and practice for the NRL hunter matches. Big issue i see with hunter matches, a guy who is struggling, has no help or guidance. NRL one should make more of an open format.
Have they posted the new format somewhere?
I agree. In NRL Hunter the shooter is on his own unless you run in a team. New guys probably won’t do that.
I saw the skills division after I made that post which is pretty cool. If I remember reading correctly coaching and help is allowed in that division as well.
I think any attempts to get more shooters into matches is a really good thing, but realistically new shooters are not going to commit to a 3 day weekend (including sight in and check in) to shoot a match that they have no idea how to compete in. Any national match is a huge commitment Between travel time, hotels, food, and time away from family. A $100 discount on the entry fees helps a little but realistically is a drop in the bucket. Commiting to a weekend with no opportunity for placement or prizes seems a little wasteful for someone already spending a large amount for the weekend.
Hopefully they have more 1 day matches available as an alternative, but it’s also hard enough to get new shooters to 1 day local matches. Guess we’ll see how it does this year.
I would have to agree about 1 day matches. Thats all we ever shoot. Been doing it for many years now and we really have no desire to shoot a two day match or anything more. For us its just a fun hobby to go do every now and then, dont really care about points or prizes. If the Nrl hunter one is a one day match I think it would be really fun just to mix it up and have a different format perhaps more realistic to hunting conditions.
The closest Hunter or national level matches I have are 2.5 hours and there's like two of them. The rest are 6+ hours. All I'm saving by going to a one day vs two match is another nights lodging and a couple meals. I'd rather get two days worth of shooting. If I had closer matches I'd like the one day.
Most who actually shoot these matches would disagree that it’s a gear race. Most targets are pretty easy to hit. It’s the being in the clock looking for them and then trying to quickly get the ranges/data and efficiently getting into some kind of position that is hard.
But what shooting sport is without some degree of top level guys getting best gear they can? What a shocker that guys like to buy expensive toys
But what shooting sport is without some degree of top level guys getting best gear they can? What a shocker that guys like to buy expensive toys
You know what helps finding and engaging targets fast? Top tier glass and bino LRF with integrated firing solutions, quick deploy carbon fiber tripods, and sub 0.5 MOA guns running 153 ATIPs.
Dudes running a stock Remington 700 with a handheld vortex LRF monocular are going to have a damn hard time, comparatively speaking. And that is the setup of 99% of hunters.
As many people can and should shoot matches, but NRL Hunter is absolutely a gear race, whether the midpack realizes it or not.
Have you even shot a match??
I literally watched a guy win a match without a tripod last year! Handheld vortex RF binos at every stage. He WON the match.
Sub 1/2 minute rifle for hunter series?Seriously?!
What exactly is your problem with the matches? You shoot a match and not place high enough?
I literally watched a guy win a match without a tripod last year! Handheld vortex RF binos at every stage. He WON the match.
Sub 1/2 minute rifle for hunter series?Seriously?!
What exactly is your problem with the matches? You shoot a match and not place high enough?
If any is match is a “gear race” for the podium, only the competitors shooting for bragging rights care. If I shoot what I have I can afford, I will get the real benefits that are available to me. Not everyone can afford the best rifle, gear, house, boat, airplane, vacation etc. If relatively meaningless points or podiums matter to you, spend the $$$. These threads keep repeating that no one actually makes a living shooting NRL or PRS matches. If the gear doesn’t work, there sure are a lot of suckers out there.
Maybe you should start the PHS - Poor Hunter Series of matches, then the only thing you would be complaining about is the lack of participation.
I get that not everyone graduated high school and some people have a hard time with reading comprehension, but I never said any of that should be banned.
If the argument of NRL Hunter over PRS is that it’s more “practical” and beginner friendly, it’s really off the mark. It is a gear race that confers high advantage to people with specialized equipment. It may not be the same gear race as PRS, but it is a race nonetheless.
So then define what "Practical" is. There is no set in stone practical when it comes to shooting in the field. It's all personal opinion and perspective.
Yes, I agree. I think everything should be allowed as long as people have to carry it (only limit is no gun strollers). Since it’s a gear race anyways, might as well open it up. Some dude wants to hump around a 25lb gun + gear for 2 days, have at it.
I also get that there was a 16lb limit because of a law in 1 state, but that just seems really arbitrary.
Ok, I get it, you don't like the 16-lbs rule. Then what should it be. 15-lbs? 17-lbs? Pick a number. If you think it should be 10-lbs, then you'll see a real gear race with Titanium actions, CF barrels, Magnesium chassis, etc.
Why should there be any number? I’m a free market advocate, let people decide what gear they want to run. If it’s too heavy, they’ll be handicapped with weight, movement, and endurance. Same as if it’s too light and handicapped with stability and follow-up shots. But let people make their own decision.
I don’t understand people who want to regulate the world to death.
Not even sure how to respond if you think Vortex RF binos are top tier and define a “gear race.”
I’m guessing you’d also consider reloading part of the gear race.
I guess I’m missing your point. You saying top shooters are winning because of better gear? Or you saying midpack guys are midpack because of better gear?
I'm saying that referencing NRL Hunter as "practical" or more "beginner-friendly" is a fallacy. It's still a gear race, just different than PRS.
Vortex Furys ($1k+) are absolutely better than a Vortex Impact monocular that costs 2/3 less money. Guys running Swarovski EL Range ($3500) or Leica 3200 ($2800) have even more of an equipment advantage over a Vortex Impact RF ($300) or other like-handheld monocular. Not sure how you could argue otherwise.
