NRL Hunter One

#301
Blind Stage matches have been around longer than the NRL. CD and WTRC have been doing it for 10+ years, and there are probably others that I'm not aware of. There are plenty of us who enjoy field style matches, and adding blind stages makes it challenging for everyone. And honestly, having a blind stage educates you on how to be creative, and helps you learn from your failures.

I'm done with the typical PRS matches that have evolved into monkey see monkey do with unrealistic and wobbly barricade stages.

I'm also done with all the drama when someone complains that you did something different from the walking dead when you shoot a stage, and there were no rules saying you couldn't be creative by shooting it another way than the previous guy.

People need to get out and shoot, instead of complaining about a match they'll never shoot.
 
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#302
308pirate said:
I was interested until I learned about the blind stage concept. I have experienced that in other shooting sports and I'm not a fan.

Mostly academic because the Great Lakes region is a rifle wasteland
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The amount of negative people that will get online and bitch and moan about one little thing they don’t like WITHOUT EVEN SHOOTING A MATCH astounds me.

NRL doesn’t need you, you’re only limiting yourself. It’s one thing to offer constructive criticism after experiencing a few or more matches.

I was hoping for some good info on NRL One. Instead there’s a few shitty trolls that just are trying to convince everyone enjoying this format how much better it would be if we adopted their brilliant ideas.

More shooting, less moaning.
 
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#303
Good Lord, I missed the blind stage controversy now. Can you see how the shooter in front of you is shooting the stage? Yes. Does it take away from the spirit of the match? NO. It's not like there's a 12 person squad lined up behind you if you're shooting. Usually there's one or two shooters on deck behind you and they're trying to square away their gear before they get up to shoot. It's a fast running event. You should be sweating in 40 degree weather if the match is running correctly. You shoot and move on.
That was my one negative critique of the finale. The UTV's created a problem even though it could be argued they were needed for accessibility. IMO, the entire match should be on foot, or, in the example of the finale, there needed to be drop points on the UTV's that was out of the view of the stages. It solves most cheating issues and no one gets backed up. There isn't an entire squad watching someone shoot a stage; although they cannot see the targets.
If you're going to convince yourself not to partake in the hunter series because of the blind stages, I don't even know how to reply. I've RO'd two matches and will be shooting or ROing more. If I see someone on glass in the holding area or telling other shooters about the stage, I'll call it out to the MD and will expect they catch a DQ. I think it's important to the success of NRL Hunter series that the integrity of the match remains intact. Everyone shooting and ROing needs to remember how important this is. If you get caught cheating, you should be blackballed, period.
 
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#304
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#305
jinxx4ever said:
there's that one word in there , "hunter". This league was fashioned for , there's that word again, "hunting" Your not hunting anything past 3-400 yds and killing it cleanly with a 243 or 556. Thus the power factor. Even short barreled 6.5's aren't going to do it. I'm glad they've got it and hope they keep it. By the numbers entering the match's, seems it's being plenty embraced for the way it is. Let the whiners go shoot somewhere else.
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Man, if you can’t cleanly kill something at 400 yards with a .243, the problem isn’t the headstamp. Same for a 25-06/25creed (none meet the PF).

I’ve hunted 15 years with guns that don’t meet the PF without issue. Animals die just fine when you hit them where you should and pick proper bullets.

A simple solution to this is making PF inversely proportional to weight. Get rid of the light/heavy, make it just factory and open. Calculate it so that a 6mm would have to be sub 10#, 25 cal sub 11#, 6.5 12#, etc up to a max of 16#. Sure people will game it (like everything) to have the absolute lowest PF they can at a given weight, but it just makes more sense.

If you like the arbitrary line, fine. But don’t say some stupid shit like a .243 or .25 cal isn’t suitable for hunting as justification.

EDIT: looks like some 25cm loads can meet PF with a long-ish barrel. Doesn’t change my point, but I was wrong.
 
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#306
HaydenLane said:
Man, if you can’t cleanly kill something at 400 yards with a .243, the problem isn’t the headstamp. Same for a 25-06/25creed (none meet the PF).

I’ve hunted 15 years with guns that don’t meet the PF without issue. Animals die just fine when you hit them where you should and pick proper bullets.

A simple solution to this is making PF inversely proportional to weight. Get rid of the light/heavy, make it just factory and open. Calculate it so that a 6mm would have to be sub 10#, 25 cal sub 11#, 6.5 12#, etc up to a max of 16#. Sure people will game it (like everything) to have the absolute lowest PF they can at a given weight, but it just makes more sense.

If you like the arbitrary line, fine. But don’t say some stupid shit like a .243 or .25 cal isn’t suitable for hunting as justification.

EDIT: looks like some 25cm loads can meet PF with a long-ish barrel. Doesn’t change my point, but I was wrong.
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i never said i can't kill at 400 yds with a 243. That's what i mainly hunt with. But i'm not stupid enough to think i can kill something at 800yds with it. This is about "hunting"out to 1000yds. If i'm going to hunt something between 400 and 800 yds and "kill" it, as this sport is designed towards, it's going to take something a little bit larger in caliber than my 243 pop gun.
 
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#308
EbTac said:
Does anyone know what calibers all the first place shooters shot? At the washita showdown
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I saw a YouTube video with Mike Lily which showed the match staff asking lots of specifics about each competitor's rifle at registration. They asked chambering, bullet, scope, barrel, etc. IOW, the information is out there.
Does anyone know if this information is publicly compiled somewhere? On the PRS site, shooters can fill in their "preferred equipment" or whatever, but we all know how often stuff gets switched around. As @EbTac asked, it would be awesome to know what's winning on a match to match basis.
 
#309
Birddog6424 said:
As posted above, I'm hearing a whole lot of 6.5mm something.

I strongly suspect it'll settle in as the go to caliber, just as the 6mm has for PRS.
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Yes, I would assume the Creedmoor has become the 6.5 Hunter Dasher™ . That said, I'd love to see what else is doing well. Seems like this is a great time for folks to reinvent the wheel and test it out in comps. i.e. 25 Creedmoor, 6.5SST, SAUMs, etc.
I'm already chambered and supplied, but it'd be interesting to see what's performing.
 
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#311
Tell you what. More people would attend PRS or similar matches if they didn't start at bloody 7AM. I'm tired! :sneaky:

Additionally, I want a row of lazyboy chairs, a 30 minute break between stages so I can reset my mental prep and contemplate if I should do 4.2 or 4.3 MIL adjustment when the app on my phone calls for 4.24. The bathrooms need to have really soft toilet paper -- like the kind that is so thick it never actually flushes down unless you flush the poop independently. And, for lunch, I'm thinking a steak. Doesn't have to be the fanciest kind of steak but, you know, whatever Costco has in bulk would be just fine. Ideally someone completely dedicated to grilling as a passion cooks them. Finally, I want ammo manufacturers on site ready to offer boxes of factory match ammo at cost to me (so long as I pay with Discover card).
 
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#312
HousePlant said:
Tell you what. More people would attend PRS or similar matches if they didn't start at bloody 7AM. I'm tired! :sneaky:

Additionally, I want a row of lazyboy chairs, a 30 minute break between stages so I can reset my mental prep and contemplate if I should do 4.2 or 4.3 MIL adjustment when the app on my phone calls for 4.24. The bathrooms need to have really soft toilet paper -- like the kind that is so thick it never actually flushes down unless you flush the poop independently. And, for lunch, I'm thinking a steak. Doesn't have to be the fanciest kind of steak but, you know, whatever Costco has in bulk would be just fine. Ideally someone completely dedicated to grilling as a passion cooks them. Finally, I want ammo manufacturers on site ready to offer boxes of factory match ammo at cost to me (so long as I pay with Discover card).
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Dang. I just want a ride home after I lose my wind calls at the bottom of a bottle.
 
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#313
HousePlant said:
Tell you what. More people would attend PRS or similar matches if they didn't start at bloody 7AM. I'm tired! :sneaky:

Additionally, I want a row of lazyboy chairs, a 30 minute break between stages so I can reset my mental prep and contemplate if I should do 4.2 or 4.3 MIL adjustment when the app on my phone calls for 4.24. The bathrooms need to have really soft toilet paper -- like the kind that is so thick it never actually flushes down unless you flush the poop independently. And, for lunch, I'm thinking a steak. Doesn't have to be the fanciest kind of steak but, you know, whatever Costco has in bulk would be just fine. Ideally someone completely dedicated to grilling as a passion cooks them. Finally, I want ammo manufacturers on site ready to offer boxes of factory match ammo at cost to me (so long as I pay with Discover card).
Click to expand...

Yeah, kind of sucks having to be at a match at 7am, especially when the nearest hotel is an hour away.
 
#315
As I stated previously in this thread, there is no incentive to run any higher power factor than 6.5 creed; except you 'might" tie with someone. I'm not going to re-hash the solutions, just go back a couple pages. I'll be shooting a 6.5 creed at any matches I attend this year, which unfortunately, only looks like one or two because of work.
At this point I'm wondering what happened to NRL Hunter One? One day matches in this format would be awesome and I was really looking forward to it. If the one days come to fruition, I don't know that I'll attend any two day matches. I'll save up my limited match budget for the CD matches.
 
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#317
Yoteski said:
Shouldn't have to. Same as running a 135 in a 6.5 creed. Well, if he was running 135 Bergers.
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It’s not the same. With the same bullet and powder charge, the larger diameter bullet is faster. You can check for yourself comparing 7mm-08 to .308, 6cm to 6.5 cm, or 338-06 to 30-06, for example. I’m sure someone else can explain why (bearing surface? Surface area the powder is working on? I don’t know).

As a direct example, I looked up Federal Power Shok’s for .308 and 7mm-08, both 150gr pills. The .308 has an advertised MV of 2820, versus 2650 for the 7mm-308.

Can a 6.5 cm make PF with 135s without pushing it?
 
#318
HousePlant said:
Well, you need to buy a Toyota Tacoma and put one of them rooftop tends on with a built in shower. Otherwise you can't be tactical.
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I want one of those 4x4 diesel vans that I can put some beds in. Just haul all my shooting shit and have my sleeping quarters right on the range. I'll call it the "soup kitchen!"
 
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#319
HaydenLane said:
It’s not the same. With the same bullet and powder charge, the larger diameter bullet is faster. You can check for yourself comparing 7mm-08 to .308, 6cm to 6.5 cm, or 338-06 to 30-06, for example. I’m sure someone else can explain why (bearing surface? Surface area the powder is working on? I don’t know).

As a direct example, I looked up Federal Power Shok’s for .308 and 7mm-08, both 150gr pills. The .308 has an advertised MV of 2820, versus 2650 for the 7mm-308.

Can a 6.5 cm make PF with 135s without pushing it?
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Yes. I did it last year. Also have a 25 creed, but really don't plan on running it for hunter. I built it more for a wind cheater in CD matches, but I could also make light hunter with it if I choose to.
ETA: I ran 135 atips out of my 22" barreled 6.5 Creed just fyi.
 
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#323
Yoteski said:
I want one of those 4x4 diesel vans that I can put some beds in. Just haul all my shooting shit and have my sleeping quarters right on the range. I'll call it the "soup kitchen!"
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Bruh... same. Except I'd call my van "Castle Creedmore". And yes, I know Creedmor is spelled wrong.

Just imagine...
 
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#324
HaydenLane said:
It’s not the same. With the same bullet and powder charge, the larger diameter bullet is faster. You can check for yourself comparing 7mm-08 to .308, 6cm to 6.5 cm, or 338-06 to 30-06, for example. I’m sure someone else can explain why (bearing surface? Surface area the powder is working on? I don’t know).

As a direct example, I looked up Federal Power Shok’s for .308 and 7mm-08, both 150gr pills. The .308 has an advertised MV of 2820, versus 2650 for the 7mm-308.

Can a 6.5 cm make PF with 135s without pushing it?
Click to expand...

MIN VELOCITY to meet PF

130 gr = 2923
135 gr = 2814
140 gr = 2714


Not that bad to meet PF with a 135. the 130's on the other hand have to be pushed rather hard. Thats the bullet I used last year and it was on the hot side with my 6.5x47 (I was pushing them 2930 in heavy class longer barel) so I am switching to 140's for this year. Nice and easy at 2750.

I almost had myself talked into a 25 but dont want to retool and wind is 2" diff at 600...
 
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#325
D_TROS said:
MIN VELOCITY to meet PF

130 gr = 2923
135 gr = 2814
140 gr = 2714


Not that bad to meet PF with a 135. the 130's on the other hand have to be pushed rather hard. Thats the bullet I used last year and it was on the hot side with my 6.5x47 (I was pushing them 2930 in heavy class longer barel) so I am switching to 140's for this year. Nice and easy at 2750.

I almost had myself talked into a 25 but dont want to retool and wind is 2" diff at 600...
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A 25 at 3200 fps is loads of fun. Probably even more fun if I could shoot worth a damn :ROFLMAO:
 
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#329
Birddog6424 said:
Haha, blind stage PRS.

Queue the 15.5lb 22BR...

Tiebreaker decided by who has the lightest rifle. If they weigh the same, they toss a coin. 🤣.

You score to go to the Finale based on how many matches you shoot. Shoot 10 matches, get points for all 10. Get invited ahead of the guy who shot 3 matches and won them all.

Quantity over quality. Hopefully non of these guys made fun of Mulligans in the PRS.
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Makes you wonder why it took so long to come out with this. Its been months before rules come out and we are already into the 2022 season. Are there even venues who are planning on having matches this season?
 
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#332
C515A4E2-F1F7-4E90-969D-F690B6DA3C47.jpeg
 
#333
I’m curious what you guys expected it to be? I talked to one of the MDs about it earlier today and the way he expressed it is that it’s essentially a recreation match. Not meant to be a new high speed low drag competition. No caliber restrictions and guns under 16 pounds let’s literally anybody that wants to get better at shooting longer ranges/hunting come out and shoot and learn. I think it’ll be overall good for the sport if they can get matches going
 
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#334
I’m agreeing with @wpeach1912. Somewhat like NRL 22. An easy point of entry. Grab the .270 with the 3x9 out of the closet and go try to hit a target at 500. I know a lot of people who have never shot at anything over 200 yards. Even less past 300. I think something Ike this will make it way more attainable for people like that. And maybe get them started in pursuing shooting on a more advanced level.
I’m hoping there are some venues in the East. I’ll be there.
 
#335
Is there some education in involved? Its great to get people out shooting but unless they understand ballistics its going to be a shit show. Trying to get people to download apps who dont have a kestral in places with spotty cell service sounds like a disaster. Are they going chrono the gun to atleast get the MV, even if pf is not an issue? Just some thoughts.

What they need to do is make some education videos and show people how to prepare before the match. How to build a ballistics card, gear recomendations and how to shoot off a bag/tripod, what to expect, how to use a ballistic app with their MV and BC,ect.
 
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#336
Im interested to see how the Hunter One spinoff runs in practice... With three of these asswhoppings in the books (Price '21, AZ and San Diego '22) i'll give my internet approved opinion.... Im by no means an expect and im outside of the top 10 for all three of the NRLH matches ive attended

The format lends itself to a two day schedule. The blind stages increase the RO workload at these matches and fundamentally makes the squad incapable of ROing themselves. Two day matches allow for a RO shoot on Friday so you get the manpower to run the gig sat/sun and team up ROs on more complex stages or long staging to shooting area transitions.

Sourcing ROs for a cut and dry one day shoot with 8-10 stages could be tricky but i guess a simple solution is to make the RO part of the squad and incentivize the work by shooting for points free of charge. Squad 1 is done with stage 4 with no shooters on the staging area, the RO wrangles them together and after the staging area on stage 5 is clear the squad moves. The MD or a couple of non shooting ROs would be needed to kick start a new stage cycle. Doable, but could very easily turn into a cluster fuck and ruin the day for everyone...IE, bottlenecks

Hiding targets in smaller venues is challenging too. Price UT and Mason Valley CA had the COF designed as a horse shoe and you would still find off stage targets while scanning some of your limits. A square range with a 150-200yd firing line will take some creative target positioning to conceal inactive targets for specific stages, again doable but tricky.

The NRL Hunter 2 day series in my opinion is the most fun and challenging format out there and all three matches ive been to have been run efficiently. But this efficiency is tied to manpower/ MD effort and venue features. If the NRL has a equation to solve those three problems in a 1 day format i dont see why it wont pick up.
If they get a club onboard in Northern UT i'll try one, no reason why not to, the blind stage idea is awesome. Can you police every shooter to not see anything at all, all day and not gain a sliver of advantage at any point during the match? NO, you cant, bitching about that is just straight dumb.

Lastly since im bored and im 300 words into this shit post anyway. The 2-day format is as much of a gear race as PRS, full stop.
That is all right in my book. The whole RuN WhAt YoU BrOuNg little unofficial slogan is BS. "Mr. Joe Browning bumper sticker" from the town down the road rolls up to one of these with a Duplex reticle scope on a 700 sps, a vortex whatever monocular range finder and a caldwell bag... he wont sleep for 2 days, most likely he'll leave with most of his ammo.

Travis changed the tune a bit at the Mason Valley match by cruising with shooters not shooting for points (skills division). I made sure to verify if a skills shooter wanted any kind of help to make the grind a bit more bearable for guys that are getting into it and i know a lot of ROs were being very very helpful. There should be an SOP for skills shooters so they feel they can come of the "script" at any moment and ask for help
also its not crazy to do 5 mins for skills instead of 4. It would allow a window for the RO to coach them while still on the clock not burning the actual position building time.

The 2-day series is a great format and the NRL is doing a great job with it. Supporting the one day series by hitting a few matches is the only way to test how it runs organically. Id do that before calling it cold shit...
 
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#337
I believe the intent is to have a bridge series. An event to get people to come, learn to shoot positional and utilize their equipment. This is unlikely to engage with precision rifle individuals. If it takes off, it will draw more people to precision rifle. The guys who shoot one Precision rifle match and leave would benefit for a slower pace, easier format, to go shoot steel.
One big issue with the Hunter series is the lack of training and exposure, of new shoooters, to technique. If you had a free format type match, that could be run any where, it would allow those that want to shoot a space to do so.
 
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#338
wpeach1912 said:
I’m curious what you guys expected it to be? I talked to one of the MDs about it earlier today and the way he expressed it is that it’s essentially a recreation match. Not meant to be a new high speed low drag competition. No caliber restrictions and guns under 16 pounds let’s literally anybody that wants to get better at shooting longer ranges/hunting come out and shoot and learn. I think it’ll be overall good for the sport if they can get matches going
Click to expand...
Fully agree here. The goal here isn't competition, it's to get people shooting (this is why you're rewarded with more points for shooting more matches). It seems like purely a hobby league, not a competition league. You get some feedback on how you shot and maybe come away with bragging rights. Otherwise you had a fun day of shooting.

If you want competition, then sign up for NRL 2-day matches or PRS matches. This is another option instead of being more of the same old thing (which seems to be what most were asking for). Sign me up.
 
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#339
Well in all fairness things have changed dramatically in the last 15 years. The Shooters today are MUCH better than they were back then, with better gear and technology, along with better understanding of ballistics. As such, the games are harder otherwise the good shooters would clean it, so it always has to be challenging enough to keep them coming back while letting little suzy or johnny walk away with more than 3 hits. So targets get further and smaller from more unstable positions. I always liked the idea of different sized targets for newer shooters so they can still experience the same thing but being much more forgiving.

Just think about using a Mil Dot master or Tripod. We have dedicated , purpose made shooting gear today that did not exist back then. Very few outside of the sniper community even knew what a shooting bag / sand sock was.
 
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#340
With these matches getting going, has anyone attended one, and how did it go?
We have one coming up, and so far it is setting up to be an exposure match for people to practice for hunter matches, or just run their hunting equipment. Getting alot of interest from non ptecision rifle humans, which is the intent.
 
#341
We're going to have one in Nebraska and see how it goes. I'm assisting in designing and setting up the range. One thing I can guarantee, it will be one heck of a match as far as target sets go. We're going to try and make it fairly new-shooter friendly with more emphasis on some of the mental aspects rather than target difficulty. The target package is going to be as good as anything you'd see in 10 stages of a 2-day match.

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#342
Yoteski said:
We're going to have one in Nebraska and see how it goes. I'm assisting in designing and setting up the range. One thing I can guarantee, it will be one heck of a match as far as target sets go. We're going to try and make it fairly new-shooter friendly with more emphasis on some of the mental aspects rather than target difficulty. The target package is going to be as good as anything you'd see in 10 stages of a 2-day match.

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Awesome! Only 4.5 hours from Denver, I might have to drive over for this one.
 
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