NRL hunter setup - what would you do?

[BoulderE89]

so I decided to build a dedicated NRL hunter competition build after shooting a factory Bergara in my first one and loving the style of competition. I have a Falkor 7even action on the way to build off of and can’t decide what to use for the rest of the gun. I don’t have a background in hunting and only picked up competition shooting about 2 years ago. I don’t really care wether my gun ends up in light or open class, just as long as it balances well.

Barrel - needing a do all steel contour. Thinking medium Palma may be good? Needs to handle strings of fire and be rigid enough for a suppressor on the end but don’t want a truck axle to walk around with. Also don’t know much about fluting…is it actually useful or a gimmick?

Chassis - XLR element for sure, but would the magnesium be hard to balance out with a steel barrel on the end?

Caliber - this one isn’t that big of a deal but just curious. For a NRL hunter/field style rifle which way would you go… 6.5 creedmoor which is tried and true or 25 creedmoor which with the new Berger offerings in 135 grains has a great BC to buck wind and actually has bullets available when I look online.

 

[Forward543]

Sounds like you are on the right track. A 6.5 creed/ 6.5x 47 case size. The .25s are great, as well. The xlr is a sweet chassis, if you need to add weight, you can. A carbon barrel would counter the weight, especially with a can.

 

[Yoteski]

I don't think you'd have a hard time making heavy hunter with the right optic with the equipment you listed. Spec out your weights online and add them up. Figure 3-4 lbs for the barrel. Caliber wise, ties go to power factory, so the .25s aren't going to be in your favor for ties. That being said, I'm putting together a CF 25 creed for light hunter and other field matches. If you do decide you want to play at a higher power factor, I think something like the 7 SAW shooting a 162 eld would be about perfect. Mathematically, bullet grain weight beats velocity in most applications.
The matches are a ton of fun and I was hoping to see more on the schedule for 2022. Looks like I'll only be able to make 2-3 in 2022. Hopefully it continues to grow and more matches will be available. One more thing to consider, it sounds like there's going to be some rule changes for 2022, or at least some standardized rules; whether or not that has any effect on rifle classes remains to be seen.

 

[Mr. F]

Agreed that Good weight balance is the most important thing your gun has to do well.
There were a good number of prone and modified prone stages but almost everything else was a one bag deal off of a rock or a tree stump.

Medium palma at 22-24 your looking at 4 - 5 pounds in front plus 1# ish for what ever bipod and about .40-.5# on the break so you're gonna have to go heavier on the glass to balance that out. Going shorter barrel with a 135gr 1/4 bore is another thing... at 2850fps you're right on the line, so your avg should at least hover around the 2875-2900fps. That's 24-26" barrel territory unless you go hot.

25 Creed looks like will become the 6Dasher of the NRLH, deff the lowest you can go while still making the 380 PF. As mentioned above tie breakers are decided on PF so that's reason enough for me to go 6.5CM. I dont see a reason going heavier than 6.5CM if the rules stay the same for 2022

Im planning a build off of a "marksman" contour (close to medium palma) 6.5 barrel i have on hand at 22" to shoot 147s. Anything over 2650fps is good with that setup.

Fluting aint my thing. Stiffness gains claims make no sense and you get really close to CF pricing when you factor the amount of machining you have to do to get the weight savings in line with CF. You can always go Light palma or Sendero, fire strings at NRLH events are not too aggressive

 

[just browsing]

If component availability is of any consideration to you, 6.5 projectiles are going to be 100x easier to get/find than .25s with the current state of things.

Blackjack is at Sierra’s will and Berger can barely keep up with their high volume calibers. Obviously it will come back around eventually but who knows when.

 

[BoulderE89]

Okay that’s a lot of good feedback. Honestly I didn’t think hard enough about power factor, so that’s a great point. I’ve always shot 140s but maybe I’ll start trying to use the 147s for wind. Either way 6.5 creed makes more sense with that thought.
And I have a razor LHT 4.5-22 so my optic is light which may mean I’ll need to do the regular xlr element to get some weight in the middle and rear to balance out the barrel on the front end. I was thinking 22-24” on barrel length

 

[Sprayed99]

I have 2 rifles set up for NRL Hunter with hopes it actually will get close enough to Texas to make it work with the PRS 2 day matches I already shoot. If not I will just keep shooting fuzzy critters with them.

6.5CM running 135 ATIPs at high 2800s with a 23" barrel under 12#s
6.5 SST II running 140 Bergers at high 2900s with a 21" barrel under 16#s

 

[BoulderE89]

Those are compact rifles you got there! Must be nice for carrying around

 

[Sprayed99]

Those are compact rifles you got there! Must be nice for carrying around

They aren’t too bad, my normal PRS rifles are 28” barrels. My favorite is a 16.5” 6creed. Most of our hunting guns are at 22” or shorter because we run cans.

 

[jpcowboy]

I have 2 rifles set up for NRL Hunter with hopes it actually will get close enough to Texas to make it work with the PRS 2 day matches I already shoot. If not I will just keep shooting fuzzy critters with them.

6.5CM running 135 ATIPs at high 2800s with a 23" barrel under 12#s
6.5 SST II running 140 Bergers at high 2900s with a 21" barrel under 16#s

Are those barrels carbon or steel and what contour?

 

[Sprayed99]

Are those barrels carbon or steel and what contour?

6.5 SST is a Bartlien carbon M24
6.5 CM Is a steel M24 picture below LRI removed a little weight

 

[huntnh]

That barrel flute pattern looks insane! Looks like it would lighten up quite a bit

 

[Sprayed99]

That barrel flute pattern looks insane! Looks like it would lighten up quite a bit

It weighs just under a chambered 24” proof sendero and this barrel is 23”.

 

[Bigrederic]

This is the gun I am looking at trying my hand at NRL Hunter with. It is a 6.5 Creedmoor chambered by Alpha Omega. It is a Hawk Hill Heavy Palma with heavy fluting. No idea what it weighs yet, but is fairly light . I need to actually get out and shoot this one, it only has like 60 rounds on it, need to finish breaking it in so I can do load development on it. Guesses on what it weighs??

 

[Sprayed99]

This is the gun I am looking at trying my hand at NRL Hunter with. It is a 6.5 Creedmoor chambered by Alpha Omega. It is a Hawk Hill Heavy Palma with heavy fluting. No idea what it weighs yet, but is fairly light . I need to actually get out and shoot this one, it only has like 60 rounds on it, need to finish breaking it in so I can do load development on it. Guesses on what it weighs?? View attachment 7733017View attachment 7733016

You wont be under 12#. With that S&B on it I'm going to guess around 17#s. You would need to get it under 16.

BTW Caleb is a good dude. He does the barrel work for my PRS rifles and also did the chambering and muzzle for my gun pictures above. That Altus salt flats camo on the Manners is one of my favorites!

 

[BoulderE89]

Curious what a heavy Palma with flutes weights in at, if anyone knows let me know

 

[Bigrederic]

You wont be under 12#. With that S&B on it I'm going to guess around 17#s. You would need to get it under 16.

BTW Caleb is a good dude. He does the barrel work for my PRS rifles and also did the chambering and muzzle for my gun pictures above. That Altus salt flats camo on the Manners is one of my favorites!

As crazy as it sounds, I think it is lighter then that. Caleb is a great dude... he has built me a few rifles, and let me shoot GAP Grind with him this year.

SonI just stood on the scale and weighed myself with and without the rifle and the rifle by itself. And as crazy as itnsounds it is about 14lbs or so. I will weigh it on the scale at the airport tomorrow to get a accurate weight.

I also have another 6.5 Creed he built me that is a shorty so velocity would likely be short of power factor or on the edge.

 

[Sprayed99]

As crazy as it sounds, I think it is lighter then that. Caleb is a great dude... he has built me a few rifles, and let me shoot GAP Grind with him this year.

OK, I know who you are now. I was there as well. I'd surprised if it will fit under 16#s. Remember everything has to be on the gun when weighed... everything.

 

[huntnh]

Have you tried rl26 in the shorty yet? Would definitely help you meet the power factor. Iv been shooting the Zeus you sold me absolutely love it!

 

[Bigrederic]

Have you tried rl26 in the shorty yet? Would definitely help you meet the power factor. Iv been shooting the Zeus you sold me absolutely love it!

No I haven't, not yet atleast. I usually save it for my PRC.

And I weighed both rifles this morning.

Surprised the shorty was that heavy, but I know folders are heavier.

That being said I would say a properly built 6.5 Creedmore using off the shelf components can make the 16lb marker.

 

[Mjolnir23]

If your rifle is over 16lbs, can you not compete at all in NRL? Looking at the website it really specify that as well as if you are not able to meet the power factor.

 

[Bigrederic]

If your rifle is over 16lbs, can you not compete at all in NRL? Looking at the website it really specify that as well as if you are not able to meet the power factor.

NRL Hunter has a 16Lb limit for the heavy open rifle class. .. it you have to meet power factor unless you are using brand new sealed box ammo from what I have read.

 

[Mjolnir23]

Dang, unfortunately I don't have any bolt guns under 16 lbs. currently. Would like to shoot one but don't want to have to buy a specific rifle to do it.

 

[Mr. F]

Dang, unfortunately I don't have any bolt guns under 16 lbs. currently. Would like to shoot one but don't want to have to buy a specific rifle to do it.

You can still shoot it.

Gotta select the “skills” division and you can shoot whatever gun / caliber / weight

No prize table

 

[Forward543]

There is the discounted skills division. Any rifle with rounds under 3275 fps.

 

[CMP70306]

Dang, unfortunately I don't have any bolt guns under 16 lbs. currently. Would like to shoot one but don't want to have to buy a specific rifle to do it.

The NRL Hunter series was designed around hunting rifles so certain rules were put in place to steer the rifles away from the 20+ pound 6BR rifle prevalent in PRS and more towards rifles that would actually be used for hunting.

The reason for the 16 pound limit is due to the Idaho law banning rifles heavier than 16 pounds for hunting.

 

[jinxx4ever]

just received my manners today. it will get my weight down to under 16lbs. i was at 18.2lbs with a J Allen chassis, atlas bipod, Hellfire 4 port, NF 7-35 mil-xt, TT Diamond. started with a schilen 28 1/2" m24 that a nice gentleman here on the hide shot out, (1770 rnds) donated to me for shipping only. sent it to Deep South Tatical where it was cut down to 2 5 1/2" and mated to a MACK SS and chambered in 6.5SS. Those guys do great work BTW and super to work with. Just started to figure out a load, but 57gr of H1000, Berger 153.5's has it at 3008fps with a .003 jump and 4 out of 5 touching on a 5 shot group. Looking forward to getting it in the Manners when i get home later tonite and putting it on the scale, then this weekend stretching it out. attaching a couple pics, one is a friend of mine's 6.5SS shooting 1.73" spread at 1840yds and mine last time i shot a couple weeks ago. Really liking this round.

 

[Mjolnir23]

Good to know about "skills division", wasn't picking up on it from the NRL website. I am fine with no prize table, really just like shooting competitions because of a interesting or new COF that you can't do at a flat range. Sucks that Idaho banned rifles over 16lbs for hunting, my 3OHate that I hunt and shoot most competitions with is 17ish lbs.

 

[CMP70306]

Good to know about "skills division", wasn't picking up on it from the NRL website. I am fine with no prize table, really just like shooting competitions because of a interesting or new COF that you can't do at a flat range. Sucks that Idaho banned rifles over 16lbs for hunting, my 3OHate that I hunt and shoot most competitions with is 17ish lbs.

You know what the most fucked up part about it is? That was their answer to the question of how to stop people from using a .50 BMG to shoot elk from one mountain top to another because one dipshit did it back in the 80’s.

“If you’ve hunted in more than one state you know that regulations change when you cross a border, and sometimes those changes seem pretty illogical. Often, regulation discrepancies are based on ethical judgements which are rooted in actual issues in the field. Take Idaho, for example. In the early ‘80s, a warden found a nonresident hunter using a modified rifle chambered in .50 BMG mounted to a tripod to shoot bull elk from a ridge. A friend called the shots using binoculars. It would have taken two days of hard hiking to reach those dead elk, at which point the meat was spoiled. News of this trickled out, and not long after, the Idaho Fish and Game Commission came up with a new regulation: No hunting big game with a rifle weighing more than 16 pounds.

Tony Boudreau, Idaho’s wildlife bureau chief, admits that the 16-pound rule sounds arbitrary to outsiders, but it’s based on a real experience that the state wants to prevent from happening again.”

 

[Mjolnir23]

Well, I guess that has some logic to it. If I was hunting in the mountains, my first choice wouldn't be a 17+lb rifle, but like most free men I do not like having options removed. What if your not in the mountains but the plains of Idaho and you shoot a dear with a 17lb rifle and the game warden catches you? Are they going to try and "take" your rifle?

The weights make sense I guess for NRL these days, especially if you bought a bolt gun in the last few years. I have a 243 Steyr scout and an old MK4 Enfield that are less than 16lbs but they are not ideal for any type of match. Guess next time I need a barrel I will get a proof or some type of carbon fiber one or just by another rifle for a little bit more if I gave a shit about rankings and prize tables.

 

[Forward543]

Is it possible that if you allowed heavy rifles and tiny calibers, the matches would be over run by the precision rifle crowd, and ruin the interest of the much larger hunting crowd?
These matches are designed to be a fun way to test your shot making under pressure. You will notice the series is dominated by people who shoot precision rifle. There is no downside to having rifles that are packable designated for a series. It is not what everyone hunts with, and will be crushed by people who shoot well, but are driven to compete. Anyone who shoots these will get 20 years worth the average hunters experience at shooting. Its an interesting way to test your program, and get reps at a very small part of a thing that people are into.

 

[Mjolnir23]

Is it possible that if you allowed heavy rifles and tiny calibers, the matches would be over run by the precision rifle crowd, and ruin the interest of the much larger hunting crowd?

I am not advocating for heavy rifles and tiny calibers for NRL or even PRS for that matter, not sure if that was directed at me or not. I was just bitching that I don't have any match rifles under 16lbs currently. However, I would disagree with you about the "precision rifle crowd" not going to dominate the sport because of that. They will just do it with lighter rifles and larger calibers. From the little I've seen its not a huge stretch from PRS. I am willing to guess that if a guy or girl was good at PRS they will be good at NRL hunter.

I am not trying to bash NRL, I really like the idea of blind stages, spotting, ranging, and engaging targets from "field positions". I will go shoot one with my 17lb 308 if the timing ever lines up in my next workup. As the sport continues to evolve, I imagine you will see more gear tailored to it like the giant plates that people are putting on top of their tripods so they can put a shooting bag and rifle on top. It will inevitably get more gamer gear like any competition, which is totally fine and I would still consider progress in the shooting sport.

 

[Forward543]

I am not advocating for heavy rifles and tiny calibers for NRL or even PRS for that matter, not sure if that was directed at me or not. I was just bitching that I don't have any match rifles under 16lbs currently. However, I would disagree with you about the "precision rifle crowd" not going to dominate the sport because of that. They will just do it with lighter rifles and larger calibers. From the little I've seen its not a huge stretch from PRS. I am willing to guess that if a guy or girl was good at PRS they will be good at NRL hunter.

I am not trying to bash NRL, I really like the idea of blind stages, spotting, ranging, and engaging targets from "field positions". I will go shoot one with my 17lb 308 if the timing ever lines up in my next workup. As the sport continues to evolve, I imagine you will see more gear tailored to it like the giant plates that people are putting on top of their tripods so they can put a shooting bag and rifle on top. It will inevitably get more gamer gear like any competition, which is totally fine and I would still consider progress in the shooting sport.

Just a point. Not meant to be on the attack. Also, the precision rifle crowd is already dominating. Just a caution of everyone else no longer going with the bullshit excuse of "they just have better equipment". I agree on the progress of equipment, and I think it will help everyones shooting.

 

[jinxx4ever]

i've watched a couple video's of some pretty good shooters, who are pretty much completely exhausted by the end of the day carrying everything in their packs up and down hills, etc. i think the terrain comes into play a lot in these matches before the end of the day. Pretty plain that keeping your mouth shut is a priority also. kInda like when ur hunting

5.3 Cheating

The NRLH defines cheating as: acting dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage in competition. Examples of cheating are:

Sabotaging another competitor’s equipment.

Changing pre-approved equipment in the middle of the match.

Scouting targets when it is not your turn to compete.

Discussing stages layout or target ranges with other competitors between the beginning and the completion of the course of fire. This includes discussion off-site during the evening between days.

Assisting in writing any course of fire or obtaining the course of fire prior to the match, including set up of targets in the field which will be used during the course of fire.

Exceeding the velocity of 3275 FPS

Altering or destruction of score sheets.

Any other act as deemed unfair/cheating by a Range Officer or Match Director.

 

[b6graham]

Is it possible that if you allowed heavy rifles and tiny calibers, the matches would be over run by the precision rifle crowd, and ruin the interest of the much larger hunting crowd?
These matches are designed to be a fun way to test your shot making under pressure. You will notice the series is dominated by people who shoot precision rifle. There is no downside to having rifles that are packable designated for a series. It is not what everyone hunts with, and will be crushed by people who shoot well, but are driven to compete. Anyone who shoots these will get 20 years worth the average hunters experience at shooting. Its an interesting way to test your program, and get reps at a very small part of a thing that people are into.

you do notice the guys 'dominating' are also rather accomplished hunters right?

 

[Forward543]

you do notice the guys 'dominating' are also rather accomplished hunters right?

Absolutley. This competition is setup to practice the tougher hunting shots. The guys doing well, shoot alot. Oddly enough that correlates to more hits. This comp is designed to get the average hunter a lifetime of shooting opportunities in one weekend.

 

[Bigrederic]

Well after doing some load development for the 24" 14lb gun I am happy with it. I settled on the lower node with a speed of 2750fps with 147 ELDMs in Lapua brass. It has a super low single digit SD and is accurate even seated to the same seating depth of the factory 147gr ELDM.

It will work for now, I'm sure it has more accuracy in it, with some seating depth changes. But I am not sure there is point to it.

 

[BoulderE89]

Got everything put together, and on my scale it weights 13.9 lbs but I’ll verify it on another scale just to be sure. Going to take it out this week and see how it shoots. Full build is as follows;
Falkor 7even action
Preferred barrel blanks medium Palma barrel at 26”
Area 419 hellfire brake
MPA hybrid chassis which I plan to add internal weights to get it closer to 15.5 lbs
Triggertech diamond 2 stage
Hawkins ultralite rings
Vortex lht 4.5-22

 

[Travis224]

My coyote setup currently, but I'm going to run a TL3 and proof carbon fiber barrel, HNT26 chassis and the new vortex 4.5-22x (21oz) scope. I should be down around 10.5/11lbs with bipod. I'm aiming for light open class. Once I get the scope I can put it on and get the actual weight

 

[Bigrederic]

I weighed my PRC today just to see what it weighs. Then I went out and shot it off the tripod at some plates. Was able to be consistent off my tripod on a 6" plate at 400yrds, and was able to spot my impacts.

Rifle really isn't the colors for a hunter rifle but it makes weight even with SS barrel in Marksman contour and with a Sphur and Arca.

Seems like making the 16lb open heavy wieght class should be fairly easy for most field rifle type builds. Still think my 24" Creedmoor might make more sense. But my lord the idea of slinging 153 Atips at around 3k fps sounds like a easier solution for the wind.

 

[Jabot]

16 lb. Class Xlr element 4.0 aluminum
Med Palma or slightly bigger steel barrel
Mark 5 5x25

12lb class
Xlr element magnesium
Carbon barrel
Mark 5 5x25
Might even be able to use a ckyepod or a couple wights even

I got the magnesium on order for this exact build

 

[just browsing]

I decided to go old school XLR with this build. Tikka CTR action, carbon chassis, and XCal carbon .25 barrel. Just mocked up here, still waiting on the blank and some other odds and ends.

Weighs in just under 16lbs with TBAC 338, Ckyepod double pull, and FDN17x.

 

[BoulderE89]

Well I’ll update on mine. I’ve pulled the internal weights, swapped to a triple pull ckye pod and cerakoted the chassis green for stealth reasons. Still running a Burris XTR3 3-18, Falkor 7even action, TT diamond 2 stage and preferred barrel blanks 6.5 creed barrel. Loving this setup and is quickly becoming one of my favorite rifles to shoot

Edit: pic added

 

[Bigrederic]

Well, I jumped in with 2 feet after selling my RH creedmoor before my first match and taking my old PRC my kid had been shooting.

Here is my new 6.5 Creedmoor, built by Caleb Morris of Alpha Omega. I should know what to expect when I commission a rifle from him, but my god he never ceases to amaze me and exceed my expectations.

I had him build me a 26" CF Bartlien barreled rifle with a Impact action and a Foundation Revelation in LH for the NRL Hunter Open Heavy division. I can't wait to go out and zero it and break it in then start load development on it. I do think I want to ditch the full Arca rail for a front pic rail with small arca section by the mag well but other then that it is about 8 Oz under max weight as configured with a Armageddon gear sling.

 

[BoulderE89]

Decided that next year I’m going to try shooting open light and swapped out almost everything to make weight. Now Running a proof CF prefit, Leupold mk5, Hawkins light rings, axis works titanium 5 port brake, and XLR magnesium chassis. Also running a thumb rest and bag rider I designed and 3D printed

 

[Lawnboi]

Berger needs to get on those 144 and 153 6.5mm bullets so I can make power factor. That’s going to determine if I shoot one next year or not. I can’t justify buying a longer barrel to go shoot one. I havnt come to terms with driving 12 hours and shooting Hornady 147s either.

 

[Alpine 338]

You can always shoot factory ammo. I was shooting Lapua 136-gr Scenar ammo In my rifle since I got a good deal on factory ammo, and didn't want to waste the 140-hybrids I have on distances under 900-yards.

 

[Lawnboi]

You can always shoot factory ammo. I was shooting Lapua 136-gr Scenar ammo In my rifle since I got a good deal on factory ammo, and didn't want to waste the 140-hybrids I have on distances under 900-yards.

View attachment 7959158

If ammo prices drop a bit I could see it. Hard to buy factory when I have plenty of brass, powder and primers.

Take me back to 26$ a box Berger creedmoor ammo.

On top of that if I’m doing any significant traveling I don’t want to half ass anything. Berger has to pump out some 6.5 bullets eventually here.

 

[Bigrederic]

I have 1000 139 Scenars I have yet to do anything with, I hear they are super accurate.

 

[mikeshaw2]

If component availability is of any consideration to you, 6.5 projectiles are going to be 100x easier to get/find than .25s with the current state of things.

Blackjack is at Sierra’s will and Berger can barely keep up with their high volume calibers. Obviously it will come back around eventually but who knows when.

during some video watching, I found a .25cal bulk bullet website. ...but can't find it now. Didn't save the site cause I'm not planning on shooting anything in .25 any time soon

It was likely in an ultimate reloader or (someone's) loading bench videos

M