NRL22 scope question

[BamaBrad]

Just picked up a Tikka T1X MTR and had a question on a scope. I was looking at the vortex venoms 5-25 and the Athlon Argos BTR 6-24. Definitely looking at options on a scope but looking at those two. I am also looking at chassis options as the KRG is my first option but looking at others. Just now getting into the NRL22 and have been reading up on this and trying to get as much information as possible.

Also wanting some options on a scope base, I have seen Area 419, mountain tactical and EGW? Thanks for any help.

 

[BamaBrad]

Also is MIL what I should be considering over MOA, I use MOA with all my other scopes but if it will be easier to use MIL for this I will do it. Thanks.

 

[FuhQ]

Since you're in that price range and made in china scopes, take a good long look at the Arken EP5. IMO (through my eyes), the glass in my EP5 is better than the glass in my Strike Eagle 5-25x56. I like both scopes, and they both have their pros and cons, but being completely honest and unbiased, the ED glass is actually better in my EP5.

My first EP5 they sent me was a lemon right out of the box, but Arken made it 100% right no questions asked, and the replacement they sent me has been an amazing scope for the money. Plus, they have the same warranty as Vortex, but they also have a precision tracking guarantee, whereas Vortex does not.

I have a ton of Vortex scopes and optics, so I'm not biased against them in any way, just stating pure facts.

Never owned an Athlon, so can't compare it against it from any personal experience.

 

[BamaBrad]

Thank you @FuhQ I run a lot of Vortex scopes on my rifles as well. I will definitely check out the Arken scope and I appreciate the recommendation.

 

[Swaim13]

I would go MILs for the scope as the vast majority of other shooters will be running MILs. This way you can get an idea if your DOPE is in the right ballpark.

As far as scopes, I would look at the reticle and pick which one you like. Out of the three, arken is probably what I would go with.

 

[BamaBrad]

What about the Sightron S-Tac Tactical?

 

[338dude]

Also is MIL what I should be considering over MOA, I use MOA with all my other scopes but if it will be easier to use MIL for this I will do it. Thanks.

Stick with what you know

 

[338dude]

Stick with what you know

Since you're in that price range and made in china scopes, take a good long look at the Arken EP5. IMO (through my eyes), the glass in my EP5 is better than the glass in my Strike Eagle 5-25x56. I like both scopes, and they both have their pros and cons, but being completely honest and unbiased, the ED glass is actually better in my EP5.

My first EP5 they sent me was a lemon right out of the box, but Arken made it 100% right no questions asked, and the replacement they sent me has been an amazing scope for the money. Plus, they have the same warranty as Vortex, but they also have a precision tracking guarantee, whereas Vortex does not.

I have a ton of Vortex scopes and optics, so I'm not biased against them in any way, just stating pure facts.

Never owned an Athlon, so can't compare it against it from any personal experience.

Thank you @FuhQ I run a lot of Vortex scopes on my rifles as well. I will definitely check out the Arken scope and I appreciate the recommendation.

^^^x2

 

[ECK]

I only got into NRL22 in the last 6-8 months, but went thru a similar thought process to the OP this winter/spring.

I started out with a used CZ455 VPT in a Manner stock w/ a USO 5-25X scope. That combo was pretty functional from the get go once I added a A419 30MOA rail (compared to the 15MOA the previous owner had on it) so I could dial in more elevation.

The USO was fine, usable X-mas tree style reticle, not too cluttered, decent subtension marks, 10 yd minimum parallax, small center dot, and it worked for me for the NRL22 matches I shot this winter. But my first PRS22 match I shot they had us shooting beyond 300 yds, which was more than I could dial with the 30MOA rail. A set of Burris XTR Signature rings with the 20MOA inserts got me some more travel to dial about 22MILS of up, sufficient for ~400-ish yards with a 50 yd zero.

Over the winter I came up with a list of features I was looking for in a scope for NRL22/PRS22:
-FFP obviously and I prefer MILS bc that is what all of my shooting buddies use (so “hey, come up two clicks” actually meant 0.2MILS instead of the MOA equivalent…)
-A boatload of internal elevational travel (24-26MILS would be good) which pretty much meant I needed a 34mm scope body
-Big ass turret with at least 10MILS per rotation. Dialing up 14-16MILS for a target on a 6MIL/rotation turret means you’re cranking two full rotations plus some. Easy to get lost on where you are at.
-Zero stop. The USO does not have a zero stop. Without it, I was bottoming the scope out then counting up to where I knew my zero was. PITA.
-Xmas tree style reticle with fine stadia lines. Prefer a small center dot as well
-A minimum parallax of 20 yards, less would have been better for dry-firing indoors but not a deal breaker
-Decent glass. I say ‘decent’ because I’m not really a glassophile. I just want to be able to see my target.
-5-25x minimum magnification. I wanted the higher end for the occasional times I crank the mag up even though I mainly shoot in the 15-18X range for the wider FOV. I considered a 4-18X, but felt like I would be limiting myself in the long run.
-I didn‘t care about weight bc I was trying to fatten up my 455 anyway to help steady it on barricades.

Given my fixed-income retired status (plus my other $$ hobbies) I don’t have the coin to invest in a top tier scope. Plus at the time I was also buying a trigger, Kestrel, shooting bags, bipods, ammo, Arca rails and clamps, etc. to round out my match kit.

My short list of scopes that checked those boxes were:
-Used Vortex Gen II now that bunch of guys were dumping their G2’s in favor of the Gen III
-New Vortex Strike Eagle (which suprised me that the Strike Eagle had better features than the PST Gen II)
-Used Burris XTRIII w/ SCR2 reticle since they were pretty much unobtainium new and guys were selling them in favor of the Pro
-Wait for a Burris XTR Pro to finally become available
-Wait for the new Burris XTRIII illuminated to drop

I ended up finding a XTR Pro for sale, so went that route (thank you tax returns). Pretty happy with that scope (and Burris), and I’m currently waiting for a good deal on a XTRIII or XTRIII illuminated w/ SCR2 for my 6.5CM.

 

[Simonsza1]

I run an Athlon Argos on my 22 and wife’s is the arken sh-4. Both work awesome, no complaints at all from either.

 

[mikeshaw2]

I would go MILs for the scope as the vast majority of other shooters will be running MILs. This way you can get an idea if your DOPE is in the right ballpark.

As far as scopes, I would look at the reticle and pick which one you like. Out of the three, arken is probably what I would go with.

I've got the Venom in MOA, another Vortex on my gas gun in MOA and probably 2 more Vortex MOA scopes in the near future.

I want to KISS

Mil to MOA is pretty easy: multiply MIL x3 and you get pretty darn close

My $.02

M

 

[egd]

I have an Athlon Argos now, but I just ordered a Helos. Both are moa. When I get the helos in and mounted I'll be selling the argos. So if you can wait a week or so and interested send me a pm. It's a GenII 6x24x50 ffp.

 

[CaptNemo]

Definitely make the switch to Mil on your scope and learn how much easier it is than having to figure out Shooter MOA vs True MOA.
Once you make the mental conversion, you won't want to use MOA anymore, mils are easier.
God gave you ten fingers and ten toes for a reason, use them...

 

[338dude]

Definitely make the switch to Mil on your scope and learn how much easier it is than having to figure out Shooter MOA vs True MOA.
Once you make the mental conversion, you won't want to use MOA anymore, mils are easier.
God gave you ten fingers and ten toes for a reason, use them...

True MOA is 1.047 inches at 100 yards shooter MOA 1 inch at 100 it’s not that much different

 

[Rob01]

Any quality scope will be true MOA so there is no worrying about which is which. If he is comfortable with MOA then no reason to change. They are both angular and will do the same thing.

 

[flyfisher117]

FWIW: I went with the Athlon Argos BTR2 in 6-24. I truthfully regret the scope. I wish I would have spent a little more money because mine suffers in the glass department. White paper is purple, clarity is rough, and I have had a very difficult time picking out targets in high contrast or deep shadowy areas. Now I will say that I like how simple it is to adjust the zero stop and I honestly don't hate the clicks.

I'm by no means a scope snob I've got and have owned my fair share of budget optics but this one just doesn't do it for me.

 

[Simonsza1]

Must say I’m a little surprised to hear this. My Argos is great and has earned first place finishes in production. Maybe you got a dud.

 

[MouthMechanic]

FWIW: I went with the Athlon Argos BTR2 in 6-24. I truthfully regret the scope. I wish I would have spent a little more money because mine suffers in the glass department. White paper is purple, clarity is rough, and I have had a very difficult time picking out targets in high contrast or deep shadowy areas. Now I will say that I like how simple it is to adjust the zero stop and I honestly don't hate the clicks.

I'm by no means a scope snob I've got and have owned my fair share of budget optics but this one just doesn't do it for me.

Definitely call CS and they will take care of the glass issue. You shouldn’t be seeing that bad of glass with it. No it’s not a top tier glass but also shouldn’t see those colors

 

[CaptNemo]

True MOA is 1.047 inches at 100 yards shooter MOA 1 inch at 100 it’s not that much different

At .22 NRL distances, it's not that big a deal.
If you're like me a swap glass around from time to time and start moving out to longer distances it can make a difference.

I switched to Mils 10 years ago and it makes sense to me so I stick with it and can "talk the talk" with the rest of the guys on the firing line.
Being able to double check your dope for a given distance with the other guys without a bunch of math is reassuring that you're on the right track when you're getting started at .22 matches.

 

[Rob01]

Yup it does make a difference as those little .047s add up when dialing or holding for longer ranges. At the max 100 yards of basic NRL matches you can maybe still nick the steel being off a little but NRLX matches with shots out to 400 yards then those add up fast when dialing 80 moa.

 

[CaptNemo]

The Club part of the NRL22 match I shot yesterday had targets at 110, 120, 144.5, 145, 190 and 235 yards across 3 stages.
Sasquatch silhouettes suck at 235 yards...

 

[flyfisher117]

Definitely call CS and they will take care of the glass issue. You shouldn’t be seeing that bad of glass with it. No it’s not a top tier glass but also shouldn’t see those colors

It will be going back eventually. Haven't bothered with it lately. Keep trying to use it as an excuse to upgrade the whole NRL22 setup but the wife does not approve.

 

[BamaBrad]

Question, if I was to go with a 25 MOA DIP scope base and a 50mm objective, for those that have a setup similar to this would low rings work on the Tikka T1X or would I need medium? Thanks.

 

[b6graham]

Question, if I was to go with a 25 MOA DIP scope base and a 50mm objective, for those that have a setup similar to this would low rings work on the Tikka T1X or would I need medium? Thanks.

low and medium mean nothing unless you tell us the actual heights. they vary between brands

 

[Rob01]

Was going to write the same thing as I have thousands of times before but then said nah. LOL Low and Medium are generic terms which are different from ring maker to ring maker.

While not a Tikka or DIP base here is a pic to give you an idea of a 50mm objective scope in 1" high rings. That barrel is heavier than the one on the Tikka and the base is a 20 MOA base and may be about .1" taller than the DIP.

 

[mikeshaw2]

True MOA is 1.047 inches at 100 yards shooter MOA 1 inch at 100 it’s not that much different

and if you somehow forget your app/data for dialing in your scope, MOA is 3x MIL (ish)

AMHIK

M

 

[Rob01]

and if you somehow forget your app/data for dialing in your scope, MOA is 3x MIL (ish)

AMHIK

M

Actually using 3.5 moa to 1 mil is the quick way to convert in the head but if using a calculator to be more precise then 3.43 is the number to use. Aproximate or (ish) numbers are not good to use in rimfire as you can be quite a ways off with the bullet's trajectory.

 

[BamaBrad]

Ok, ordered a Arken 5-25x56 that came with their Halo medium rings. Also have a DIP 25 MOA rail coming. From the research I’ve done and I admit, I have not done long range .22 shooting but I should be good, hopefully to around 400 with the rail and scope according to the Mils, again if I understood what I read correctly. I appreciate everyone’s post and help.

 

[Simonsza1]

Great choice

 

[WeeHooker]

Understanding that the OP has already ordered but I'll throw this out there anyway. I have 3 of the Vortex Venom's in 5-25-56 and a couple of the Athlon Argos (including the 6-24x50). All are decent scopes but I feel the Venom is better in pretty much all respects. It's brighter, has a better ( BRC-7) reticle, more adjustment , better glass. Considering it comes with a sunshade, rubber lens covers and a throw lever, AND can be had for the same/less $425ish as the Argos, I think it's the hands down winner between the two.

 

[BamaBrad]

@WeeHooker I am a big vortex fan, own several and I considered the Vortex, several times actually. Are you saying though, the Vortex is better than the Athlon in regards to more adjustment and better glass or the Arken?

 

[WeeHooker]

@WeeHooker I am a big vortex fan, own several and I considered the Vortex, several times actually. Are you saying though, the Vortex is better than the Athlon in regards to more adjustment and better glass or the Arken?

I'm saying that the Vortex Venom 5-25-56 is better than the Athlon Argos BTR II 6-24x50. I have no experience with the Arken but have read some pretty good things about them. Hope it works for you.

 

[chevy_man]

and if you somehow forget your app/data for dialing in your scope, MOA is 3x MIL (ish)

AMHIK

M

Actually using 3.5 moa to 1 mil is the quick way to convert in the head but if using a calculator to be more precise then 3.43 is the number to use. Aproximate or (ish) numbers are not good to use in rimfire as you can be quite a ways off with the bullet's trajectory.

Why convert when you can simply measure with the ruler you're looking at?

Everyone gets hung up on inches and moa and yards.

Input yardage into your ballistic calculator of choice. Plenty of free ones that will run on an ancient phone so no reason not to have one.

If variations appear, track them and true your ballistic calculator while noting in dope book.

Most moa reticles suck for this. Most mil reticles measure to .1 or .2 pretty easy and intuitively.


Even if the spotter says something like "1 plate width right", just note the plate width in the reticle in 2 seconds and hold that value. I generally call corrections in plate width or height because then the shooters measuring system is out of play, and they can figure it out pretty quick and easy.

 

[Rob01]

Why convert when you can simply measure with the ruler you're looking at?

Everyone gets hung up on inches and moa and yards.

Input yardage into your ballistic calculator of choice. Plenty of free ones that will run on an ancient phone so no reason not to have one.

If variations appear, track them and true your ballistic calculator while noting in dope book.

Most moa reticles suck for this. Most mil reticles measure to .1 or .2 pretty easy and intuitively.


Even if the spotter says something like "1 plate width right", just note the plate width in the reticle in 2 seconds and hold that value. I generally call corrections in plate width or height because then the shooters measuring system is out of play, and they can figure it out pretty quick and easy.

I was speaking of the conversion from moa to mils or vice versa only for when talking to other shooters with different graduations when at a match. Nothing to do with inches and not about corrections all the time as you can’t get on the clock corrections but for data and wind info so a newer shooter knows approximate wind call or elevation.

The reticle is always the way to make adjustments but there are good moa reticles for corrections just like there are mil reticles.

 

[mikeshaw2]

I was speaking of the conversion from moa to mils or vice versa only for when talking to other shooters with different graduations when at a match. Nothing to do with inches and not about corrections all the time as you can’t get on the clock corrections but for data and wind info so a newer shooter knows approximate wind call or elevation.

The reticle is always the way to make adjustments but there are good moa reticles for corrections just like there are mil reticles.

There are targets where I can see my misses but more targets where I can't. If you can see your misses, it's easy to adjust.

I have yet to have anyone call misses during a match

M

 

[Rob01]

That’s because they can’t do it.

 

[chevy_man]

That’s because they can’t do it.

We do it all the time. Especially new shooters. The experienced guys will get a left/right/up/down if they ask. But generally if they're asking there's an issue and they're not going to be on top.

We also run our own series and year end tournament and avoid the NRL. We tried it for a year and it got way too boring. No money on the line, and no prizes except at the year end tournament, so for the monthly matches we focus on helping each other rather than strict competition.

 

[Simonsza1]

Ya I think rob01 is referring to sanctioned matches not local stuff. Even at the big matches the amount of shit getting shared before and after shooting is lame as fuck imo. Its actually what I think is the biggest problem with all the shooting leagues. Nrl hunter and team matches are better but there’s still to much. It should be way more regulated so people have to use there own brain

 

[Rob01]

We do it all the time. Especially new shooters. The experienced guys will get a left/right/up/down if they ask. But generally if they're asking there's an issue and they're not going to be on top.

We also run our own series and year end tournament and avoid the NRL. We tried it for a year and it got way too boring. No money on the line, and no prizes except at the year end tournament, so for the monthly matches we focus on helping each other rather than strict competition.

Yes talking about sanctioned matches. Not local matches. Local matches can make up whatever rules they want but seeing as the title is NRL scope then sticking to speaking about their set rules and not random club match rules.

 

[chevy_man]

Ya I think rob01 is referring to sanctioned matches not local stuff. Even at the big matches the amount of shit getting shared before and after shooting is lame as fuck imo. Its actually what I think is the biggest problem with all the shooting leagues. Nrl hunter and team matches are better but there’s still to much. It should be way more regulated so people have to use there own brain

And that's exactly how you drive new shooters away.


Even when we did sanctioned nrl matches we still helped each other.

 

[Delboy 71]

Just picked up a Tikka T1X MTR and had a question on a scope. I was looking at the vortex venoms 5-25 and the Athlon Argos BTR 6-24. Definitely looking at options on a scope but looking at those two. I am also looking at chassis options as the KRG is my first option but looking at others. Just now getting into the NRL22 and have been reading up on this and trying to get as much information as possible.

Also wanting some options on a scope base, I have seen Area 419, mountain tactical and EGW? Thanks for any help.

I have the Athlon and just changed to the Arken EP5 because I found the reticle became to thick at the higher magnifications. I don't know the venom that well and although the glass is ok the proof will be sighting on smaller targets at the longer ranges. Being in the UK I rarely get to use longer ranges above 100 meters. So try and get hands on and compare reticles. Other than the Reticle the Athlon quality is great and it's a solid scope. With great repeatability and tracking with a Lifetime warranty! Which was why I brought it over a vortex.

 

[WeeHooker]

I don't shoot NRL but do own both teh Athlon Argos G2 6-24x50

@WeeHooker I am a big vortex fan, own several and I considered the Vortex, several times actually. Are you saying though, the Vortex is better than the Athlon in regards to more adjustment and better glass or the Arken?

I'm saying that the Vortex Venom 5-25-56 is better than the Athlon Argos BTR II 6-24x50. I have no experience with the Arken but have read some pretty good things about them. Hope it works for you.

Update: FWIW, I gave the ARKEN EP5 a shot this past winter. If felt in inferior to the Venom in glass quality ( both clarity and brightness). The mechanics were nice but that's all I liked. I sold it off after two range trips. I still keep a couple of Athlon ARGOS but the Vortex venom 5x25x56 ( of which I have 3) remains my favorite of the three like priced models mentioned . Others experience may vary but that's mine.