Night Vision NV hunting...IR laser question

Rade1MOA

Sergeant
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 16, 2010
407
94
Twiggs County Ga
Alright,
I recently purchased a PVS-14 and have it mounted behind an Aimpoint comp 3. My question is: Do you find it easier to shoot hogs and coyotes with an IR laser or to use the actual reticle with the 14 behind the sight? What kind of accuracy should I be able to achieve with the laser and at what ranges should I expect to be able to kill coyotes. The hogs are an easy shot...Thanks
 
Laser is a good option to have at a time when your 14 may be awkward to use. Personally I like the aiming with the reticle, or dot.
A good laser will be as accurate as you are dialing it in. I have several but the one I like is the LDI CQBL-1. Small, both vis and IR laser and they are co-aligned. As far as distance,well that depends on your mind set. I do not like shooting any further than my ability to take a well aimed KILL shot, some pray and spray. Not my thing with animals, they deserve better.
 
Shooting is only a small part of the mission. The success of shooting is born from the ability to detect, identify and sometimes monitor your prey before engaging. All that is hard to do on a non static target especially if there are multiple targets. For me most of my work is done helmet mounted with laser due to the dynamics of my type of hunting. If your laying over watch on a bait pile then weapon mounted may serve you well. I have normal success out to 200yds or so with a laser and helmet mounted optic.
 
Both set ups have their advantages and disadvantages dependent on the type of hunting / shooting. For hog hunting we typically keep our night vision mounted on our helmet and shoot with an IR laser. Due to the size of the coyote and blooming I would concur with killswitch engage about 200 yards. One can argue that you maybe a bit faster at aiming with the laser than finding the dot / reticle if you need to take a quick shot.
Practice makes perfect though.
 
Helmet mounted monocular with a weapon mounted laser provides nav capability without muzzle sweeping. In a static situation it also provides more flexible mounting of the weapon system to one's body and arguably quicker target acquisition. The effective range is pretty much the same either way; I tend to limit to about 100m with unity magnification, but maybe some younger folks have better eyes. In any case, the improved SA of helmet mounting trumps whatever benefits might be perceived by weapon mounting the monocular.
 
Last edited:
Thanks guys, it sounds like the answer is "it depends" . That is pretty much the conclusion that came to, so I'll be getting a laser and a qd mount.

Redirt78...that's fine I'll hunt with it until you can pay off.
 
The laser option is really the way to go. PVS-14's are designed to be helmet-mounted goggle systems first and foremost. The ability to move naturally, navigate, negotiate obstacles, and engage targets quickly is the whole reason behind a goggle. Weapon-mounting is used in very few situations. In fact, we get a lot of questions from customers on the civilian and law enforcement side about how to properly use a PVS-14. The question is so common that we addressed it in this past month's newsletter. Here is the text:

"This month's tip is more of an explanation. With it, I mean to address a very frequent topic we discuss with a lot of clients new to the night vision world: mounting a PVS-14 (or other monocular) to the rifle. This topic can be confusing for first-timers who are used to shooting while looking down the sights of a rifle or through an optic. Guys and gals who have done this for years will naturally think they should use night vision that way too. And they would be correct, as long as they are talking about a scope or other weapon-mounted night vision device. But, the PVS-14 is the most attractive optic to first time buyers because of price and versatility. They just need to learn how to use it.

The AN/PVS-14 is the standard issue night vision goggle for all four branches of the U.S. Military. It is designed to be head or helmet mounted 99% of the time. As such, it is small and lightweight. The objective lens is only big enough to replicate visual ID ranges that the user would have during daylight with the naked eye: detection out to about 800 yards and identification out to about 100-115 yards. Depending on your situation and your knowledge of the area and ROE, you can engage out to a couple hundred yards, but that is it.

The PVS-14 can be weapon-mounted. But, this is a secondary feature since there is really little value to doing so in the field. Hunting, much like warfighting, requires you to move about and hunt your prey. Sometimes you have to go a long ways to find it, sometimes they come to you. Either way, both hunting and warfighting benefit from the ability to move freely in the field. This is extremely hard to do if your night vision is tied to your weapon. Here is why:

1. Maneuvering in the field requires the ability to traverse differing terrain, negotiate obstacles, hike, climb, cross water, etc. These tasks can be challenging during the day and are more difficult at night (even with night vision goggles). But, when your goggle is on your weapon, you have to keep the weapon shouldered at all times while moving just so you can see. This presents a lot of opportunity for disaster.

2. Rifles get heavy after a while. I don't care how He-Man you think you are, humans tire from physical exertion. If your goggle is on the gun, you have to keep it shouldered just to see. That's going to suck after about 2 minutes.

3. Safety is going to become a huge concern since you now have to sweep with your entire weapon over everything that you are looking at. Obviously, this will eventually cause you to cover something with your muzzle that you are not prepared to destroy.

The PVS-14, like all night vision monoculars and goggles is designed to be helmet-mounted while aiming is done with a weapon-mounted Infrared Laser. This is truly the best way to use it. In this configuration, you do not use the sights or optics on your gun at all. You shoulder the weapon with a chin weld instead of a cheek weld and look over your sights at the laser. It's that easy! While this is a paradigm shift for new night vision shooters, the learning curve is shallow and the follow-up shots are fast!

Another reason to keep your goggle on your head is the ability to use multiple caliber weapons systems. Night vision goggles are not designed to handle heavy recoil from calibers above 5.56mm. Honestly, this is because they are meant to go on your head 99% of the time. The laser can go on heavier caliber weapons without issue.

Speaking of caliber, we need to address the question of why you would want to attach a goggle to a heavy caliber weapon. Besides the fact that the laser/helmet mount combo is more versatile in every way, the identification range limitation of a goggle negates the reasoning for using a heavier caliber anyway. You simply cannot reach out far enough with a goggle to make use of the larger caliber's capabilities. If you are looking to reach out there, use a scope. If you're worried about stopping power, fine; use a laser and keep the goggle on your head."

We are constantly asked about PVS-14's and .308 rifles. This question stems from people not understanding the nature of a goggle. ITT Exelis is the sole contract holder for the AN/PVS-14 for the U.S. Military. They have stated that it is not designed for a .308, nor will they warrant it for such. If Big Army wanted their goggles to withstand .308, they would have made it part of the qualification spec. The bottom line is that there is no need for this feature since the goggle is meant to be used on the head. And as mentioned in the newsletter text above, the objective size of the PVS-14 and other goggles is only big enough to replicate daylight vision distances.

Another thing to think about the light loss when stacking optics behind each other. Light is degraded every time it passes through a lens. A lens can consist of the windows in your house, the glasses on your face, or the scope on your gun. It doesn't matter how good the glass is, it cannot completely pass all light. Light loss is compounded by the thickness of the glass (lens) and the number of lenses. Light transmission is especially critical at night when there is a lot less of it. If you weapon-mount a PVS-14, you are inflicting a handicap on its performance. Since a night vision goggle relies on the ability to gather as much light as possible in order to amplify it, you do not want to cut that light down by putting a bunch of lenses in front of it. This is especially true of magnified optics. The light passes through all the lenses in a day scope before it even gets to the objective of a PVS-14. It is heavily degraded.

There was a comment about laser bloom made already as a reason not to use lasers on smaller game. This is only true for full power IR Lasers. You can easily bullseye a coyote with a current production LDI Class1 IR Laser by simply dialing it back to low power. All DBAL-I2's have been made with a high/low feature since February this year. The low setting is a 0.2mW output - perfect for reducing bloom.

Another trick for reducing bloom from higher powered IR lasers is to use an IR Illuminator at the same time to "wash out" the halo effect.

Basically, the PVS-14 should remain on your head 99% of the time. There are very few instances where weapon-mounting it is beneficial. For the OP's purposes, you should use it as it is designed to be used - as a goggle.
 
Rade, I do a lot of pig hunting w/ NV here in Texas and I use both. I run the PVS-14 on my helmet for driving/navigation and if shots are 75 yds or less I will take them with the laser. When the distance gets out past 75 yds I like to weapon mount it. When going this route the PVS-14 is mounted behind an EOTech and a 3x magnifier, makes it a little easier to shoot the longer distances. In a perfect world we would all have the money to buy monocular/goggles and a NV dedicated scope or clip-on but most can't afford all that. Running the PVS-14 on your helmet and your weapon gives you all that at a much lower price.
 
My poor NV weapon sights don't get used alot anymore as 90% of the time I perfer my ANVIS 9's or BNVD's and the D-2 laser on my rifle. (Yes with LDI Neutral Denisty Laser Filter). The Head mounted NV and IR laser combo is truely like having a Heads-up display as you can drive, navigate terrian,spot targets, and place rounds down range with ease.
 
Use the laser. On a 5.56 M4, you can zero that to about 275m (or push it to the 300) and be dead on at 25 and 275ish. Everything in between will hit a little higher, but generally not much more than a foot or so. So aim lower mid-range.

You'd be surprised at how many infantrymen get issued those lasers and just don't know how to use 'em. They hated 'em. Many didn't even mount them. We added a night shoot to the SDM course (which was supposed to have a "train the trainer" effect) and that solved the problem.

BTW, this is why MILES gear "doesn't work". We got the brand new shit in boxes, but when I found out how the laser worked one day with my NODs on, I nailed every damn target I hit BUT you can't train realistically, you have to train "MILES mode". Which defeats the purpose really. It was a good idea on paper. The Simmunition worked much better.

But it just takes training, practice, because once you can hit IR chemlights off the steels at that range, at 275-300ish, it gives you new confidence in that piece of plastic.

Remember that for all practical purposes, that laser is a pure line of sight device. Your rifle arcs the round in, so you'll have two points where it zeroes and a range in between you have to account for. As long as you know your trajectory and have the laser zeroed and know those two points of trajectory along with the max ordinate of the trajectory, it's a no brainer from there.

Also, you may have to account for the fact that the laser is off center, but that's generally not that big of a deal either. You can be just as good with that laser as you are iron sights, they're really not much different, it just takes practice and not many do it. So they get a bad rap.

I'll get a clip on one day, and I have a Larue QD mount for the 14's and another rifle's EoTech, but I don't use it. Mostly because I have an ITT tube, and just want to take care of it. Nowhere to go DX this one!