Night Vision NV or thermal clip-on
- Thread starter aslrookie
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Prism collimated (new) thermal clipons start around $15k at the moment ...
The commercial thermal clipons are not prism collimated and hence need to be manually recollimated for each different rifle scope they are added to. One new unit, the Tig-IR does have six different collimation saves ... and seems to be highly repeatable (I shot a rabbit of tripod at 350yds dialing with the Tig after a remount. I don't usually try to shoot rabbit that far out, but the rabbit was there and I needed a target
Tig's are under $11k.
Tig Review: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/soks-tigir-z6-initial-review-video.7070168/
The Genesis Omega ( O40 ) street price under $5k ... is a more typical commercial thermal clipon ... but does have a decent image.
Omega Review: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/new-genesis-thermal-line-for-poors.7083686/
I prefer thermal clipons as in my environment ( we live along a creek ) there's a lot of vegetation on both sides of the creek and I'm usually shooting into/thru thick woods and NV can't see in there under most circumstances.
But I've also gotten a PVS-27 ... $4,500-ish street price ... and if you can find one, those are fantastic! As far as NV clipons go, but again, I don't use it much for critter control due to the nature of my terrain. In open, cut fields, NV would work fine.
The commercial thermal clipons are not prism collimated and hence need to be manually recollimated for each different rifle scope they are added to. One new unit, the Tig-IR does have six different collimation saves ... and seems to be highly repeatable (I shot a rabbit of tripod at 350yds dialing with the Tig after a remount. I don't usually try to shoot rabbit that far out, but the rabbit was there and I needed a target
Tig's are under $11k.
Tig Review: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/soks-tigir-z6-initial-review-video.7070168/
The Genesis Omega ( O40 ) street price under $5k ... is a more typical commercial thermal clipon ... but does have a decent image.
Omega Review: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/new-genesis-thermal-line-for-poors.7083686/
I prefer thermal clipons as in my environment ( we live along a creek ) there's a lot of vegetation on both sides of the creek and I'm usually shooting into/thru thick woods and NV can't see in there under most circumstances.
But I've also gotten a PVS-27 ... $4,500-ish street price ... and if you can find one, those are fantastic! As far as NV clipons go, but again, I don't use it much for critter control due to the nature of my terrain. In open, cut fields, NV would work fine.
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Wig has great gear and advice.
I scan with a hand held thermal. Walk and drive a top of the line PVS_14, and shoot with a CNVD+LR clip on for NV.
and I have a dedicated Trijicom MK2 35MM thermal.
Every piece of gear I have and use is and has been OUTSTANDING.
I scan with a hand held thermal. Walk and drive a top of the line PVS_14, and shoot with a CNVD+LR clip on for NV.
and I have a dedicated Trijicom MK2 35MM thermal.
Every piece of gear I have and use is and has been OUTSTANDING.
Yep, that dictates the proper choice. I bought a PAS-13G thermal clip-on when I was still in the south shooting hogs, which it was great for. A couple years later I moved back up here and out of hog land and discovered just how lacking it is for non-hunting situations. Now my only clip-ons are I^2 and they work FAR better for my purposes. YMMV.
I have (numerous times) spotted coyotes with a thermal and then been unable to locate them (to shoot them) with a PVS30.
I literally knew exactly where they were (due to thermal spotter) and couldn’t find them to shoot at them. I use a thermal clip-on now and don’t have that problem anymore.
Is the I^2 image better? Usually. So for paper targets that’s better. That’s completely irrelevant if you can’t find your target to begin with.
As others have said, paper vs flesh and terrain make this decision.
I literally knew exactly where they were (due to thermal spotter) and couldn’t find them to shoot at them. I use a thermal clip-on now and don’t have that problem anymore.
Is the I^2 image better? Usually. So for paper targets that’s better. That’s completely irrelevant if you can’t find your target to begin with.
As others have said, paper vs flesh and terrain make this decision.
If you want to make your clip on experience less aggravating, buy one that has a wireless or wired remote.
I like to coyote hunt at night. Target shooting is pretty limited due to the lack of ranges that allow shooting after sunset, so I feel target shooting takes the back burner when compared to detection.
There are select times I could take advantage of night shooting on private land, but nothing really out of range with a 5.56 and goggles with a laser anyway. My knowledge of thermal is basically nothing more than ATN sucks lol.
I can see myself navigating with my NV and setup a stand with my tripod for thermal use. I don’t wanna have to mount and dismount optics between thermal and a scope. The optic I am planning on using is a Mk5 3.6-18.
There are select times I could take advantage of night shooting on private land, but nothing really out of range with a 5.56 and goggles with a laser anyway. My knowledge of thermal is basically nothing more than ATN sucks lol.
I can see myself navigating with my NV and setup a stand with my tripod for thermal use. I don’t wanna have to mount and dismount optics between thermal and a scope. The optic I am planning on using is a Mk5 3.6-18.
I shot over 300 coyotes using a thermal scanner and thermal weapon's sight from December - March. I have tested tons of different options as the main thermal product tester for Night Goggles. If you want to cut through a lot of the learning, send me a PM. I will provide my cell and we can talk thermal coyote hunting.
That’s the problem. I hunt field openings and I can hear the damn things but can never see them. They hide in the treelines and rarely cut across wide open areas. Being in the midwest, we have a lot of thick woods. In the winter it’s much easier since the vegetation is nonexistent, but the density of trees still makes it hard to see them if you’re not at a good angle.Prism collimated (new) thermal clipons start around $15k at the moment ...
The commercial thermal clipons are not prism collimated and hence need to be manually recollimated for each different rifle scope they are added to. One new unit, the Tig-IR does have six different collimation saves ... and seems to be highly repeatable (I shot a rabbit of tripod at 350yds dialing with the Tig after a remount. I don't usually try to shoot rabbit that far out, but the rabbit was there and I needed a target
Tig's are under $11k.
Tig Review: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/soks-tigir-z6-initial-review-video.7070168/
The Genesis Omega ( O40 ) street price under $5k ... is a more typical commercial thermal clipon ... but does have a decent image.
Omega Review: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/new-genesis-thermal-line-for-poors.7083686/
I prefer thermal clipons as in my environment ( we live along a creek ) there's a lot of vegetation on both sides of the creek and I'm usually shooting into/thru thick woods and NV can't see in there under most circumstances.
But I've also gotten a PVS-27 ... $4,500-ish street price ... and if you can find one, those are fantastic! As far as NV clipons go, but again, I don't use it much for critter control due to the nature of my terrain. In open, cut fields, NV would work fine.
I use a handheld thermal scanner to detect then use a clip on night vision to identify. Thermal clip on scopess good enough to identify are EXPENSIVE but you can get a decent handheld unit for under $2.5K. I had a PVS-27, it was way to big for anything other than stationary. I sold it then found a PVS-24. The PVS-24 is much, much smaller and more fitting for an AR platform. They are both about the same as far as performance in my area but the 27 should gather more light because of the larger objective but the size and weight made it too cumbersome for me.
Do you use an IR illuminator? I have had similar trouble with a kn203 with no supplemental illumination. I've wondered if a good illuminator would help, but can't find one I like.
I had that problem both with and without illumination. Illumination definitely reduces the problem but doesn’t eliminate it.
As much as possible, my setups and tactics don’t rely on illumination because I want some consistency between coyote and tactical uses. I wouldn’t send out a “here I am” beacon unless absolutely necessary in a tactical situation so I don’t want to get used to relying on it for coyotes.
FOR ME, thermal is the solution to this.
As much as possible, my setups and tactics don’t rely on illumination because I want some consistency between coyote and tactical uses. I wouldn’t send out a “here I am” beacon unless absolutely necessary in a tactical situation so I don’t want to get used to relying on it for coyotes.
FOR ME, thermal is the solution to this.
The only illuminator I've used has been ATN junk that just bloomed off of everything up close and completely blinded me at any kind of distance.
Around my neck of the woods yotes seem to be much more bold to come out into the open on the darker nights (no moon, cloud cover).
I've taken a number of coyotes out passed 400 yards with my Simrad and no illuminator on those dark nights, but they were spotted with thermal.
I seriously doubt I would have seen them with just the I2.
A couple of summers ago I had some trouble-making raccoons that I had to deal with. From my position on my front porch they were 70-100 yards out. In the tall grass I was able to easily PID them with an older Apollo Pro thermal clip on, but through the Simrad they were just shadows moving until they came out of the grass.
Now that I'm using the TigIR thermal I'm pretty confident that in the majority of cases I can get a PID faster with the new thermal clip on than the old I2 clip on. Though it looks like the PVS 27's may be in a different league than my Simrad as far as resolution goes.
Honestly though, if most of my hunting were 300 yards and under I'd buy a good dedicated thermal sight.
Around my neck of the woods yotes seem to be much more bold to come out into the open on the darker nights (no moon, cloud cover).
I've taken a number of coyotes out passed 400 yards with my Simrad and no illuminator on those dark nights, but they were spotted with thermal.
I seriously doubt I would have seen them with just the I2.
A couple of summers ago I had some trouble-making raccoons that I had to deal with. From my position on my front porch they were 70-100 yards out. In the tall grass I was able to easily PID them with an older Apollo Pro thermal clip on, but through the Simrad they were just shadows moving until they came out of the grass.
Now that I'm using the TigIR thermal I'm pretty confident that in the majority of cases I can get a PID faster with the new thermal clip on than the old I2 clip on. Though it looks like the PVS 27's may be in a different league than my Simrad as far as resolution goes.
Honestly though, if most of my hunting were 300 yards and under I'd buy a good dedicated thermal sight.
I am having a big raccoon issue and this thread was a nice read, but FML...
I am gonna go be a poor somewhere else now.
I am gonna go be a poor somewhere else now.
In fairness, I’ve been fairly successful with a good white light. my first coyote was shot at 120 yards with an iron sighted 20” Colt HBar with a million candle power spot light held clumsily in my support hand (while still supporting the rifle).
NV and thermal have drastically improved my experience, and my tactical capabilities, but if all you’ve got is $35 then grab a white light and adjust your tactics to suit. It’s really good experience anyway
NV and thermal have drastically improved my experience, and my tactical capabilities, but if all you’ve got is $35 then grab a white light and adjust your tactics to suit. It’s really good experience anyway
Can’t use white light in my state unless using a shotgun.In fairness, I’ve been fairly successful with a good white light. my first coyote was shot at 120 yards with an iron sighted 20” Colt HBar with a million candle power spot light held clumsily in my support hand (while still supporting the rifle).
NV and thermal have drastically improved my experience, and my tactical capabilities, but if all you’ve got is $35 then grab a white light and adjust your tactics to suit. It’s really good experience anyway
I see you're in Central Idaho. I moved to the Midwest from Pocatello almost ten years ago.In fairness, I’ve been fairly successful with a good white light. my first coyote was shot at 120 yards with an iron sighted 20” Colt HBar with a million candle power spot light held clumsily in my support hand (while still supporting the rifle).
NV and thermal have drastically improved my experience, and my tactical capabilities, but if all you’ve got is $35 then grab a white light and adjust your tactics to suit. It’s really good experience anyway
l would like to get back to the desert to try some nighttime hunting some time. The state I live in currently gets extremely humid and noticeably hampers thermal performance at times. I can definitely see the difference between humid (90%±) and less humid nights at higher magnification.
As you’ve imagined, I get little experience with humidity in Idaho (McCall). I’ll have to defer to you and others as relates to that.
Typically, yes if you're wanting to see terrain features. For shooting, I primarily default to thermal, but toy with i2 semi-often.
With humidity comes thicker vegetation, and thermal is the key to see through it and spot a critter. NV, especially if using illumination, will be less than desirable.
The better the thermal the better it deals with humidity
Though neither NV nor thermal works in Noah's Rain ( super pouring rain .. pounding hard on ya ) or HEAVY MIST.
In Noah's Rain, best case, NV/Thermal can see the skyline at the tops of the tree line or ridges ... mk1eb actually beats the fancy stuff in Noah's Rain. Except thermal can still see critters out a ways ... though maybe not even 100yds ... these sorts of nights maybe 3 times per year around me (central KS).
I'd say similar for HEAVY MIST ... critter seeing distance a few dozen yards (84yds one night I remember) ... these sorts of nights average about 1.5 nights per year around me.
So, it's a good idea to spend a few months out there with nothing but your mk1eb ... and maybe a walking stick to avoid falling in holes( what I did when I first got out here). It helps you gain confidence with your ability to function out there even with out the fancy gear. And actually on most nights, in the open pastures, you can see totally fine without the fancy gear, for purposes of navigation.
Thermal helps you see the critters, even when masked by vegetation.
In Noah's Rain, best case, NV/Thermal can see the skyline at the tops of the tree line or ridges ... mk1eb actually beats the fancy stuff in Noah's Rain. Except thermal can still see critters out a ways ... though maybe not even 100yds ... these sorts of nights maybe 3 times per year around me (central KS).
I'd say similar for HEAVY MIST ... critter seeing distance a few dozen yards (84yds one night I remember) ... these sorts of nights average about 1.5 nights per year around me.
So, it's a good idea to spend a few months out there with nothing but your mk1eb ... and maybe a walking stick to avoid falling in holes( what I did when I first got out here). It helps you gain confidence with your ability to function out there even with out the fancy gear. And actually on most nights, in the open pastures, you can see totally fine without the fancy gear, for purposes of navigation.
Thermal helps you see the critters, even when masked by vegetation.
That’s our long lost friend @TheHorta ‘s toys.
some badass prototype auto focusing sniper thermal clip on.
hope he doesn’t mind me sharing
Who gonna start a petition to demand Horta return to this board?
Night vision is nice, walking through the pasture, in my woods it works. For scanning for predators in the tall pasture grass, thermal is the bees knees!! White light just drives off the problem animals to come back a little later in the morning or night aka not effective.
I am currently in Louisiana and my little Hogster R35 works, even with our humidity.
I am currently in Louisiana and my little Hogster R35 works, even with our humidity.
Don’t talk crap like that without providing some sort of proof!haha ... de 'orta hath 'is own board now !!!
So I started out with NV only and saw limited success. Gave up for a while, then thought I'd go FLIR Breach + NV Clip-on. It worked a lot better, but I agree with the guy above that talked about seeing the animal in thermal and not being able to find it with NV. Also, on misty, snowy, or otherwise water-saturated nights, thermal is worth fuckall to navigate with. Living things still glow great, but literally everything else is the same color. I've walked into steel gates down pasture trails...
At this point I'm running the Breach+PVS14 on a helmet mount (with a couple illuminators strapped to the side of the helmet for various beam size and power for spotting eyes), an IR laser on the rifle, and looking at a dedicated thermal weapon sight on the rifle. I've tried a few of my buddies' setups and I think that's the way to go. Can spot what needs spotted no problem, can navigate no problem, and closer (<100yd) shots with the laser seem to be working well. Farther shots with thermal require the helmet stuff to get flipped up.
Others may be more tactical than me, but I've not encountered a situation that I NEEDED to take a shot past 150-200yd yet. I don't care to get into ranging and dealing with elevation holds/dials at night... At any rate, I'm getting away from clip-on day/night units and more to dedicated setups. YMMV.
At this point I'm running the Breach+PVS14 on a helmet mount (with a couple illuminators strapped to the side of the helmet for various beam size and power for spotting eyes), an IR laser on the rifle, and looking at a dedicated thermal weapon sight on the rifle. I've tried a few of my buddies' setups and I think that's the way to go. Can spot what needs spotted no problem, can navigate no problem, and closer (<100yd) shots with the laser seem to be working well. Farther shots with thermal require the helmet stuff to get flipped up.
Others may be more tactical than me, but I've not encountered a situation that I NEEDED to take a shot past 150-200yd yet. I don't care to get into ranging and dealing with elevation holds/dials at night... At any rate, I'm getting away from clip-on day/night units and more to dedicated setups. YMMV.
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