Night Vision NV or thermal???

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdr724</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I saw this coming a mile a way. This is the part that negates anything you think you know that everyone else is too stupid to get.

You take care now,
</div></div>

Really now. And what is the problem you have again? In layman's terms please.

IR-V

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CTM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Trying to understand where the above come from. Yeah I'm just your average Joe but I figured that out long before you informed me.

Now you shared some stealthy info on what FLIR can really do which was interesting. Then you throw a bone out about some way to get fused technology that is not normally available from the regular sources and at half the price of what the gov't pays to boot. I do a little research with my limited google fu skills and then pose a simple and straight forward question back to you that I know many others are and were thinking, but all you come back with is the Einstein attitude. I guess your just to smart for the rest of us or just me.

You take care now, </div></div>

Yup. Need more than fusion imaging to see through all the bullshit smoke trolls like you pull, posting under multiple handles.

IR-V

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CTM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok so I looked at the FEDBIZOPPSI site and it said you could register as a "citizen" but then would not let you unless your agency was already registered.
Looking over the FAQ I can see why our Gov't is so screwed up with so much paperwork and so many forms etc, just insane! Just looking it over gave me the same type of headache I get when I spend to much time behind the NODS.

My question is if I cannot buy a fused monocular ex ENVG from a manfact because they have their own internal policy against selling to a civi or because of some gov't restriction that gets placed on them (?), how in the world can I acquire one from the same people just because it is a gov't contract over run and @ half the price? I have been around long enough to have realized that many of the things that I thought were impossible are in fact possible, but this one would suprise me. </div></div>

IDIQ means that the gov't doesn't have to specify how much of a particular equipment on contract they need. Therefore the contractor supplier tends to over produce to ensure they have enough on hand to meet the gov't demand. When the gov't budget has been cut and is declining, the contractor supplier anticipates, using the very EVM measures required by the contract, that it will not be able to sell all that it has produced and put in reserve - even after "management reserve" has been factored in. This is a serious threat to the contractor supplier's fiscal solvency, which interestingly is a key qualification criteron for future source selections. 'Tis truly a vicious cycle. Consequently, the contractor supplier will put the excess inventory for sale to the public (nothwithstanding ITAR restrictions of course) to recoup "sunk costs." So as to not violate the opsec terms of the gov't contract, which would cause the contract supplier to lose their CAGE authorization and thus lose eligibility for future contracts, the contractor supplier withholds some capabilities of the equipment released for public sale by controlling access or implementation at the code level. When the item is priced at around 1/2 the gov't contract price, it is because the contractor supplier is interested in recouping only the sunk cost and not any profit.

The solicitation portion of FEDBIZOPPS is open to all, and the record of past solicitations may be found with simple Google queries. Yes, FEDBIZOPPS is difficult to navigate, but that is the nature of the beast. It takes experience in contracting / procurement to know how to get around it not only to find what you need, but in time to secure an opportunity with it. For many small businesses, that skill and that experience is the difference between having just enough competitive advantage to survive and not even being in the game at all.

Good luck to you in your hunt. I find your successive posts (after the one enclosed above) to be trite and a waste of my time.

IR-V

 

[jdr724]

Re: NV or thermal???

I'll spell it out for you. I have advanved degrees in molecular biology, bioenginering and mathematics and the technical info you're providing is 100 level really. With that background I hope it's clear to you why I dont appreciate your condecending attitude.

I have no problem with clear open communication thank you.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IR-V</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdr724</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I saw this coming a mile a way. This is the part that negates anything you think you know that everyone else is too stupid to get.

You take care now,
</div></div>

Really now. And what is the problem you have again? In layman's terms please.

IR-V


</div></div>

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdr724</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll spell it out for you. I have advanved degrees in molecular biology, bioenginering and mathematics and the technical info you're providing is 100 level really. With that background I hope it's clear to you why I dont appreciate your condecending attitude.

I have no problem with clear open communication thank you.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IR-V</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdr724</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I saw this coming a mile a way. This is the part that negates anything you think you know that everyone else is too stupid to get.

You take care now,
</div></div>

Really now. And what is the problem you have again? In layman's terms please.

IR-V


</div></div> </div></div>

Right. And you bench press 500 lbs. also. I've seen your type before. Is someone holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read my posts? You may leave anytime you see something you don't like, and don't let the door bounce too many times on the asses of your multiple identities on your way out.

IR-V

 

[Evolution 9]

Re: NV or thermal???

IR-V,

You clearly have some useful knowledge and that is always appreciated (at least by some)on these forums.

It is also clear that your knowledge is nowhere near useful enough to justify your over inflated sense of self worth and condescending attitude you have displayed in the last several posts.

You've got some good hard facts under your belt, but anyone can achieve that. Now it's time to work on your soft skills.

 

[jdr724]

Re: NV or thermal???

I do however have a problem typing with my big fingers on these little phone keys with no spell checker

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdr724</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll spell it out for you. I have advanved degrees in molecular biology, bioenginering and mathematics and the technical info you're providing is 100 level really. With that background I hope it's clear to you why I dont appreciate your condecending attitude.

I have no problem with clear open communication thank you.
</div></div>

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evolution 9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IR-V,

You clearly have some useful knowledge and that is always appreciated (at least by some)on these forums.

It is also clear that your knowledge is nowhere near useful enough to justify your over inflated sense of self worth and condescending attitude you have displayed in the last several posts.

You've got some good hard facts under your belt, but anyone can achieve that. Now it's time to work on your soft skills.

</div></div>


E-9,

Unfortunately, the only inflation I see here is your own self-promotion as one who is qualified to judge -- and I say this respectfully but candidly. A true referee shows much more separation from their personal emotion than what your post demonstrates. The topic is IR imaging. If you have useful knowledge or good hard facts on that subject, you should post them. I enjoy learning from others more than you might imagine. Try me.

IR-V

 

[Evolution 9]

Re: NV or thermal???

"...the only inflation I see here is your own self-promotion..."

Nobody will be surprised that that's all you see here.

It is for that very reason that I commented in the first place.

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evolution 9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"...the only inflation I see here is your own self-promotion..."

Nobody will be surprised that that's all you see here.

It is for that very reason that I commented in the first place. </div></div>

I also said: a true referee shows much more separation from their personal emotion than what your post demonstrates. The topic is IR imaging. If you have useful knowledge or good hard facts on that subject, you should post them. I enjoy learning from others more than you might imagine. Try me.

IR-V

 

[Evolution 9]

Re: NV or thermal???

IR-V

I came here to learn about the various technologies involved, and I did (in part thanks to you). Then I noticed you getting unpleasant with other posters in what is either a very rude, immature, or egotistical way (I genuinely am not sure which).

A couple posters called you on it and you only got worse. Then I mentioned it so you might realize that it's not just the guy you were being rude to who saw it that way...

But you just keep digging.

If you decide to keep digging, I'm really curious what "personal emotion" you saw in my first post.

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evolution 9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IR-V

I came here to learn about the various technologies involved, and I did (in part thanks to you). Then I noticed you getting unpleasant with other posters in what is either a very rude, immature, or egotistical way (I genuinely am not sure which).

A couple posters called you on it and you only got worse. Then I mentioned it so you might realize that it's not just the guy you were being rude to who saw it that way...

But you just keep digging.

If you decide to keep digging, I'm really curious what "personal emotion" you saw in my first post.

</div></div>

E-9,

You're clearly having an emotional reaction right now. The info I post is free. If you or anyone else don't like the delivery or info, you can just leave it. It is what it is. Do I owe you something? If yes, what is it and why.

IR-V

 

[jdr724]

Re: NV or thermal???

last word, what other wisdom to live by, shadowy comeback or consipracy theories you got!

 

[Evolution 9]

Re: NV or thermal???

Yes, IR-V I am experiencing a pretty strong emotion right now. It's called humor, and it's leading to smiling and laughing, both of which have health benefits--Thanks

You don't owe me anything. You probably owe two other posters an apology, but if your parents couldn't teach you that stuff, I'm certainly not capable of, or interested in, doing so either.

Three people are telling you you have an attitude problem...

If one person thinks you're a jerk, then he's the jerk...
If several people think you're a jerk, they just may be on to something.

 

[Evolution 9]

Re: NV or thermal???

My apologies,jdr724, I didn't realize you had the last word

 

[TV-PressPass]

Re: NV or thermal???

I'm a big fan of FLIR equipment. Thermals really change the game.

But personally I've got both and use them together.

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evolution 9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, IR-V I am experiencing a pretty strong emotion right now. It's called humor, and it's leading to smiling and laughing, both of which have health benefits--Thanks

You don't owe me anything. You probably owe two other posters an apology, but if your parents couldn't teach you that stuff, I'm certainly not capable of, or interested in, doing so either.

Three people are telling you you have an attitude problem...

If one person thinks you're a jerk, then he's the jerk...
If several people think you're a jerk, they just may be on to something.

</div></div>

E-9,

Several persons. LOL. You mean: one person with hurt feelings and multiple aliasses (spelling intentional). You can keep the problems you have with your parents to yourself. If you moved out of their basement, they wouldn't have to say such things to you.

Nobody owes you info and a kiss on your adolescent behind. So suck it up, kid.

IR-V

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TV-PressPass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a big fan of FLIR equipment. Thermals really change the game.

But personally I've got both and use them together. </div></div>

Excellent - this will help get this thread back on topic again! I concur with using both together -- fusion is the industry direction. It is interesting also to explore and consider direct-pass technologies that permit thermal imaging to be overlaid onto the day scope view.

IR-V

 

[Evolution 9]

Re: NV or thermal???

IR-V,

Your constant ad hominem attacks only lend credence to my previous comments.

Speaking of lending credence, your comment, "Nobody owes you info..." speaks to your aforementioned inflated sense of self worth. I never asked you for any info, but in your conceit, you assumed that I did.

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evolution 9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IR-V,

Your constant ad hominem attacks only lend credence to my previous comments.

Speaking of lending credence, your comment, "Nobody owes you info..." speaks to your aforementioned inflated sense of self worth. I never asked you for any info, but in your conceit, you assumed that I did.

</div></div>

E-9,

Why are you so worried about credence and credibility regarding such nonsense subjects? Any time you want to bring yourself to talk IR imaging technology, I'm ready to hear it and engage.

IR-V

 

[M C]

Re: NV or thermal???

holy SHIT. what a waste of my time, you guys should meet at a specified grid square, each with his nv/thermal equip, and duke it out...

as for me, thermal choice would be a stalkIR by oasis; or pvs27 for NV... my opinion on the actual posted topic...

 

[Nukes]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IR-V</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since I am not a sleuth, but an enduser, maybe you could recommend a few fusion units... starting at the low end price point and moving upscale?

Are we talking >$20,000? </div></div>

Everybody is looking for easy answers. Dig deep and do your homework. If you still can't find something with all the hints, drop me a private mail (but not in 30 minutes, and only after you've done a little independent research).

Cost is $7,000 - $10,500 depending on configuration.

IR-V </div></div>

Back on track. PM sent.

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IR-V</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since I am not a sleuth, but an enduser, maybe you could recommend a few fusion units... starting at the low end price point and moving upscale?

Are we talking >$20,000? </div></div>

Everybody is looking for easy answers. Dig deep and do your homework. If you still can't find something with all the hints, drop me a private mail (but not in 30 minutes, and only after you've done a little independent research).

Cost is $7,000 - $10,500 depending on configuration.

IR-V </div></div>

Back on track. PM sent. </div></div>

Response sent to your inquiry, also via PM.

IR-V

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">holy SHIT. what a waste of my time, you guys should meet at a specified grid square, each with his nv/thermal equip, and duke it out...

as for me, thermal choice would be a stalkIR by oasis; or pvs27 for NV... my opinion on the actual posted topic... </div></div>

You were being much too polite. Holy F*cking Sh*t is more like it. Definitely sorry that you had to endure reading all that. StalkIR, for sure, is incredibly versatile ... fastest to swap from gun to helmet, etc. and while functioning as a clip on also. Also, quick to get out of the way when not needed, and just as fast to get it back in line. Unfortunately, the remarkable StalkIR is unattainable for civilian users.

640 x 480 and 60 Hz to boot ... I'll just shut up now and quit fueling the lust ...

IR-V

 

[Nukes]

Re: NV or thermal???

As for me, fusion imaging and edge enhancement are much of my profession and I.R./I.I. fusion seemed a good idea for a NVD, BUT I spent a lot of time searching key words and found no examples of fusion scopes, not at any price point.

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for me, fusion imaging and edge enhancement are much of my profession and I.R./I.I. fusion seemed a good idea for a NVD, BUT I spent a lot of time searching key words and found no examples of fusion scopes, not at any price point. </div></div>

Did you get my PM response to your PM?

IR-V

 

[M C]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IR-V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unfortunately, the remarkable StalkIR is unattainable for civilian users. IR-V</div></div>

i know... i am sorry. maybe one day right?

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IR-V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unfortunately, the remarkable StalkIR is unattainable for civilian users. IR-V</div></div>

i know... i am sorry. maybe one day right? </div></div>

No need to apologize -- that's one heck of an outstanding choice in thermal imager. Since it really is just company policy blocking the StalkIR (w/o the integrated IR laser pointer) from civilian sales, where there is a will, there has got to be a way!

One example:

After a writer for a popular gun rag, who does not have LE or Military credentials (!), visited our dev facility and had a chance to observe the BAE advisors demo the UTM / StalkIR ... he independently contacted a BAE rep and managed to get one "on loan" for a photo shoot, for a feature article he was writing. He then offered afterwards to buy it from BAE -- and the account exec. gave the green light to complete the deal.

Some are of the opinion that 60 Hz performance is not that distinguishable from 30 Hz. In a 320x240 thermal that may be somewhat true, but once you go to hi-res (640x480), the 60 Hz advantage is very visible. It is very impressive in the UTM / StalkIR ... VERY CRISP images of objects even with the most swift movement with absolutely no image stutter or "trailing blur".

Oops ... time for me to shut up again and quit feeding the lust!

IR-V

 

[M C]

Re: NV or thermal???

i'll bet 'he' offered to buy it as the compay?? who knows, but we/I need to find said loophole because it would be tits to own one personally. wonder if a trust or a llc would allow purchase of one. ?

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'll bet 'he' offered to buy it as the compay?? who knows, but we/I need to find said loophole because it would be tits to own one personally. wonder if a trust or a llc would allow purchase of one. ? </div></div>

The legitimate hard way:

DOD Private Security Contractor [companies] can buy, but not at the level of individual employees, and the company has to be able to establish its credentials with several forms of documentation. A trust isn't going to give any leverage ... an LLC might, but it would have to gain all the requisite DOD certifications, including security clearance, and be able to show proof of current security services contract with the DOD.

The discretionary method:

If you write or do product reviews for any journal (and there are a bunch of them out there) that has a broad LE or military subscription base - that's the easiest path "of least resistance" for gaining one ... first on loan, and then after waiting a couple months following a very positive write-up and review, making the offer: "say ... y'all had sent this demo out to me, whadduyah say I buy it?"

110% pure social engineering:

The other path of even less resistance is to become acquainted to someone who has done the above [or who has received an 'expendable loan'], and make a nice offer to buy it from that person.

I have to hand it to BAE though, their internal corporate accounting for their products and controls on their distribution are "Army Strong" compared to others. For example (regarding the others), the FLIR T60 thermal weapons scope (which is another sweet piece of gear) comes with a Class III IR laser integrated into the unit ... by fed. regulation those would be restricted to LE and Military buyers only, and yet, almost anyone with $12,000 - $17,000 can find someone on the open market who can get one and sell it to them.

Even for the government procurements, however, the StalkIR / UTM is very expensive equipment.

IR-V

 

[CTM1]

Re: NV or thermal???

my bad

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

CTM1,

Peace brother. I can tell you are very angry. So, you've expressed your anger just now to me. I read it and am going to let it go -- no angry words in return from me. That will not make things better between me and you, which should be the goal of our communications.

First off, let me point out that your entire reaction was as the result of a mistake on your part. [Please] go back and read the thread. You had mistakenly read a portion of text that the other fellow had quoted from a previous post of mine (in reply to his), and then you flew off the handle thinking it was my "Einstein" response to your question (which I had not even responded to yet).

I request that you go back at look at what happened, and then we can talk when you are feeling less angry at and offended by me.

I think there have been a lot of misunderstandings in this thread. I try to help people with their genuine inquiries wherever possible. However, if folks approach me with disrespect, I will respond with the same. We do need to be clear about that.

The answers to your very question (or questions) have been provided by me to another who has posted in this thread and who has approached me via PM. What I post openly is what I am sharing for free. Many details which go deeper into the technology and the business associated with it, I am not obligated to reveal except to people whom I feel have developed a rapport with me.

I'll offer this observation, however, to help you with your search. The ENVG / DSNVG is not the only IR fusion solution that has been contracted for by the DOD.

IR-V

 

[Nukes]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IR-V</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for me, fusion imaging and edge enhancement are much of my profession and I.R./I.I. fusion seemed a good idea for a NVD, BUT I spent a lot of time searching key words and found no examples of fusion scopes, not at any price point. </div></div>

Did you get my PM response to your PM?

IR-V </div></div>

Yes indeed. Thanks much. I am digging deeper. I also put my head together with a friend who is a physicist in the industry. Predictably, he likes the $70k version.

 

[IR-V]

Re: NV or thermal???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nukes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IR-V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Did you get my PM response to your PM?

IR-V </div></div>

Yes indeed. Thanks much. I am digging deeper. I also put my head together with a friend who is a physicist in the industry. Predictably, he likes the $70k version. </div></div>

You're welcome, Nukes. Once you acquire the technology that we touched upon, and see what it can do, you'll wonder where the heck everyone else has been! ;-)

IR-V