I’m looking for a NV scope for my AR. I have thermal so I’m looking for NV for positive identification. Looking for something with fantastic recognition up to 100 yards with crisp image and decent base mag. I’ve seen videos of the ATN 4K but not many others? Any other NV scopes perhaps AGM wolverine or anything else anyone can recommend! Thanks all
Night Vision NV scope advice
- Thread starter jaydog48
- Start date
KAC PVS30, FTW. Also, assuming you don't have 14's. So here goes.
Seriously, PVS 30 has been just the titties. I get crisp and clear images a helluva lot farther than that with a PEQ2 illuminator and whatever day scope happens to be on the rifle I'm using. 100m? Try 1000.
Definitely one of the better buys that's come along in a loooong time IMO/E. Mine isn't even that high of an FOM but folks are finding out that apparently it didn't make much difference with these. I have a hand select PVS14 and I swear this thing is even cleaner than that, so go figure there.
It is heavy, but damn is it worth it.
IF all you want is something far more basic, you can always put a PVS14 in any number of mounts designed for the AR and operate it behind an EoTEch or other dot sight designed for use with NODs and having a NV setting. Not too sure about magnification, the 3x magnifier goes in front of the 14 which would be between the NODs and sight, not sure if a weapons magnifier behind it will work but even if it did the whole setup would be like two feet long. In this case you're better off, way better off, with the dayscope and a PVS 30.
NOW, since you have a thermal scope, another option is that I'd just consider a head mounted PVS14, say with a Crye soft cover, and an IR laser/illuminator. That'll work to 300m even with the civilian shit, so 100 will be no problem at all. The laser will certainly get the job done too, especially at that range. That'll be your cheapest option for quality gear I imagine, PLUS you won't have to remove your thermal and can still use it as-is. You'd get the advantage of being able to walk around in the dark as well.
Give Vic a call at TNVC, he's who I talk to and he can square you away without selling you off on a bunch of shit you don't need. If you can't get him pretty much all the folks at TNVC have their shit together.
Can't help you with ATN. They sold me a scope once years ago. They won't be selling me another. Perhaps their NV division isn't as lame but I just don't take chances.
Seriously, PVS 30 has been just the titties. I get crisp and clear images a helluva lot farther than that with a PEQ2 illuminator and whatever day scope happens to be on the rifle I'm using. 100m? Try 1000.
Definitely one of the better buys that's come along in a loooong time IMO/E. Mine isn't even that high of an FOM but folks are finding out that apparently it didn't make much difference with these. I have a hand select PVS14 and I swear this thing is even cleaner than that, so go figure there.
It is heavy, but damn is it worth it.
IF all you want is something far more basic, you can always put a PVS14 in any number of mounts designed for the AR and operate it behind an EoTEch or other dot sight designed for use with NODs and having a NV setting. Not too sure about magnification, the 3x magnifier goes in front of the 14 which would be between the NODs and sight, not sure if a weapons magnifier behind it will work but even if it did the whole setup would be like two feet long. In this case you're better off, way better off, with the dayscope and a PVS 30.
NOW, since you have a thermal scope, another option is that I'd just consider a head mounted PVS14, say with a Crye soft cover, and an IR laser/illuminator. That'll work to 300m even with the civilian shit, so 100 will be no problem at all. The laser will certainly get the job done too, especially at that range. That'll be your cheapest option for quality gear I imagine, PLUS you won't have to remove your thermal and can still use it as-is. You'd get the advantage of being able to walk around in the dark as well.
Give Vic a call at TNVC, he's who I talk to and he can square you away without selling you off on a bunch of shit you don't need. If you can't get him pretty much all the folks at TNVC have their shit together.
Can't help you with ATN. They sold me a scope once years ago. They won't be selling me another. Perhaps their NV division isn't as lame but I just don't take chances.
A dedicated NV scope like a 740, D470, D750 or D760 are excellent choices.
I have a PVS-26 which is the predecessor to the 30. While the picture is awesome it is a pig to lug around. Now I also just picked up a TNVC WASP (no longer made) and while the WASP is a little lighter and more compact you still know it is out there. After a few nights out with the WASP I can say that the 26 has a better picture than the WASP but the WASP is no slouch for sure. When it comes to Clip-Ons I think for my type of hunting, which mostly is under 100 yards a KAC UNS-SR might be the trick as it is light weight and very compact, but finding a good used one at a good price has been an exercise in futility.
Until I find that UNS-SR the PVS14 behind a RD or LPVO has been my got to. Now with that said, when it comes the mounting a PVS-14 behind a RD or LPVO I have struggled for years with what is the best set up. To date when it comes to the 14 behind a LPVO the best set up that I have found to use is a mono-loc, but you need a LPVO with good glass, especially in the center. Does it change your cheek weld, yes but you just deal with it.
Now when I use the 14 behind a RD I find it useless without the 3x magnifier on the 14. I tried the 14 behind a AP T-1 with and without the 3x. Without the 3x mag the dot was clear and crisp, but without the extra magnification it was useless. The problem with the T-1 was when I added the 3x mag to the 14 it made the dot look like a semi-colon. I heard it is something with the lens coating as I do not have any issues with my eyes. Now I have not tried this setup with the T-2 but I have been told it is better as it does not have the coating of the T-1. I tried this set up with a Samson Flip Mount but the RD has to be mounted to far forward for my liking when using the 3x mag on the 14.
Last year I picked up an Eotech EXPS3-0 and mounted the 14 with 3x mag in a LaRue PVS 14 flip mount and because the arm on the LaRue that holds the 14 angles backwards you can keep your RD in the correct position. Now when I add the 3x mag I am again having a little problem with the center dot smearing a little bit. I have heard that Eotech knows that there is a problem but won't fess up about it. Even with this minor flaw I love this set up and it works.
As of late my ultimate quest has been to find a setup that allows me to use a day time 3x magnifier perhaps an Eotech G33 with the EXPS3-0 but be able to quickly transition from the G33 to the 14 with 3x mag. I am focusing on using the Wilcox flip to the side mount (FTTS) as I have found it works great with the thermal unit I have been running on it. It uses a simple dovetail shoe and mine locks up solid. I inquired here as to which dovetail show might be better, the Wilcox or the OSS from RQE but no one had any thoughts and a company I reached out to was not responsive in the time table I needed so I picked up the Wilcox dovetail. Well, I should have realized it was not going to work. With the EXPS3-0 mounted on the front of the receiver you cannot even add the 14 by itself, it literally does not fit. Afer the fact I searched the net for a picture of the 14 mounted in the Wilcox FTTS mount behind a RD and could not find one anywhere. I wonder why.
So now I am back at square one. If I want to run this set up, EXPS3-0 with 14 with 3x mag while using the Wilcox FTTS mount I need to run the RD out on the rail which I do not want to do, or I need to find a cantilevered riser. Well KAC made a riser that was about 5" in length and that put the optic about 3/4" higher which I want but of course I just learned it is out of production and very hard to find used. I considered the Wilcox 5/8ths riser kit with the FTTS mount but after investigating it further there is not enough room on it to get the 3x magnifier for the 14 in the space given. Now I am looking at the LaRue 101 5/8ths riser as an option, but I wanted to go a little higher but there does not seem to be any other options do do so. If this setup is not viable perhaps my only alternative might be to use two Unity Tactical FAST risers
I have a PVS-26 which is the predecessor to the 30. While the picture is awesome it is a pig to lug around. Now I also just picked up a TNVC WASP (no longer made) and while the WASP is a little lighter and more compact you still know it is out there. After a few nights out with the WASP I can say that the 26 has a better picture than the WASP but the WASP is no slouch for sure. When it comes to Clip-Ons I think for my type of hunting, which mostly is under 100 yards a KAC UNS-SR might be the trick as it is light weight and very compact, but finding a good used one at a good price has been an exercise in futility.
Until I find that UNS-SR the PVS14 behind a RD or LPVO has been my got to. Now with that said, when it comes the mounting a PVS-14 behind a RD or LPVO I have struggled for years with what is the best set up. To date when it comes to the 14 behind a LPVO the best set up that I have found to use is a mono-loc, but you need a LPVO with good glass, especially in the center. Does it change your cheek weld, yes but you just deal with it.
Now when I use the 14 behind a RD I find it useless without the 3x magnifier on the 14. I tried the 14 behind a AP T-1 with and without the 3x. Without the 3x mag the dot was clear and crisp, but without the extra magnification it was useless. The problem with the T-1 was when I added the 3x mag to the 14 it made the dot look like a semi-colon. I heard it is something with the lens coating as I do not have any issues with my eyes. Now I have not tried this setup with the T-2 but I have been told it is better as it does not have the coating of the T-1. I tried this set up with a Samson Flip Mount but the RD has to be mounted to far forward for my liking when using the 3x mag on the 14.
Last year I picked up an Eotech EXPS3-0 and mounted the 14 with 3x mag in a LaRue PVS 14 flip mount and because the arm on the LaRue that holds the 14 angles backwards you can keep your RD in the correct position. Now when I add the 3x mag I am again having a little problem with the center dot smearing a little bit. I have heard that Eotech knows that there is a problem but won't fess up about it. Even with this minor flaw I love this set up and it works.
As of late my ultimate quest has been to find a setup that allows me to use a day time 3x magnifier perhaps an Eotech G33 with the EXPS3-0 but be able to quickly transition from the G33 to the 14 with 3x mag. I am focusing on using the Wilcox flip to the side mount (FTTS) as I have found it works great with the thermal unit I have been running on it. It uses a simple dovetail shoe and mine locks up solid. I inquired here as to which dovetail show might be better, the Wilcox or the OSS from RQE but no one had any thoughts and a company I reached out to was not responsive in the time table I needed so I picked up the Wilcox dovetail. Well, I should have realized it was not going to work. With the EXPS3-0 mounted on the front of the receiver you cannot even add the 14 by itself, it literally does not fit. Afer the fact I searched the net for a picture of the 14 mounted in the Wilcox FTTS mount behind a RD and could not find one anywhere. I wonder why.
So now I am back at square one. If I want to run this set up, EXPS3-0 with 14 with 3x mag while using the Wilcox FTTS mount I need to run the RD out on the rail which I do not want to do, or I need to find a cantilevered riser. Well KAC made a riser that was about 5" in length and that put the optic about 3/4" higher which I want but of course I just learned it is out of production and very hard to find used. I considered the Wilcox 5/8ths riser kit with the FTTS mount but after investigating it further there is not enough room on it to get the 3x magnifier for the 14 in the space given. Now I am looking at the LaRue 101 5/8ths riser as an option, but I wanted to go a little higher but there does not seem to be any other options do do so. If this setup is not viable perhaps my only alternative might be to use two Unity Tactical FAST risers
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I also have been very curious about the KAC UNS-SR. The PVS-30 is my primary NV clip on. I have been circling around this (next piece of gear) for longer than I care to admit. Came close to pulling the trigger on a PVS-27 but once again the weight. If you keep digging you will find one.
Happy Thanksgiving
Great info gives me a lot to think about. So does the 3x magnification on a pvs14 cause the image to become less clear?
jaydog48
I have not experienced any loss of clarity with the 3x lens. On darker nights I do have to introduce additional IR, but that just makes whacking predators easier as I put the cross hairs on their glowing eye and it is lights out.
My 3x magnifier for the 14 screws into the the front of the 14 but it also has the option of being friction mounted which I do not do as I do not trust it.
The 14 I use for mounting to a rifle is an older ITT AA that is said to better at handling recoil, but as The King stated you have to check the units recoil rating.
I am not a tech guy but as I recall TNVC said L3 tubes are rated for 5.56, 7.62x39 and 300BO where as ITT is rated for only up to 5.56.
I have not experienced any loss of clarity with the 3x lens. On darker nights I do have to introduce additional IR, but that just makes whacking predators easier as I put the cross hairs on their glowing eye and it is lights out.
My 3x magnifier for the 14 screws into the the front of the 14 but it also has the option of being friction mounted which I do not do as I do not trust it.
The 14 I use for mounting to a rifle is an older ITT AA that is said to better at handling recoil, but as The King stated you have to check the units recoil rating.
I am not a tech guy but as I recall TNVC said L3 tubes are rated for 5.56, 7.62x39 and 300BO where as ITT is rated for only up to 5.56.
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Have killed hundreds of pigs using 3x magnifier screwed into PVS 14 behind an EOtech. Works well for 100 yards in for precise neck shots on the first one. Once pigs start running I transition to laser with the helmet mounted PVS 14. Lasers (without a low-bloom filter) suck on precise shots on pigs within 50m due to their hair and blooming effect. Even with an IR illuminator turned on.
Have used PVS30 and loved it, on nights of full moon able to PID and count antlers on deer at 1600m. Killed pigs and coyotes out to 300m without issues.
For the money though, just picked up a SIMRAD KN203 and am VERY impressed. Haven't had a chance to kill anything, but when checking unit was able to see steel target at 600m without issues. This was with 10% illum and heavy cloud cover. With badger rings and SIMRAD cap, still better than 1/2 price of a PVS 30. Need a tripod to shoot off of, though. Letting the pigs on my place fatten up until Jan and Feb then going to thin them out with it.
Have used PVS30 and loved it, on nights of full moon able to PID and count antlers on deer at 1600m. Killed pigs and coyotes out to 300m without issues.
For the money though, just picked up a SIMRAD KN203 and am VERY impressed. Haven't had a chance to kill anything, but when checking unit was able to see steel target at 600m without issues. This was with 10% illum and heavy cloud cover. With badger rings and SIMRAD cap, still better than 1/2 price of a PVS 30. Need a tripod to shoot off of, though. Letting the pigs on my place fatten up until Jan and Feb then going to thin them out with it.
If you got the cash go for a pvs-30, pvs-27, or cnvd-lr you will not be disappointed. If on a budget it is hard to beat the simrad. Just mho good luck!
Pvs 14 with a Eotech is super light weight thus you can move around. PVS-(30...etc) heavy and you need support. Ive killed many an animal freehanded with the 14 (+3x) but your range is limited (was able to get a few at just over 200 yds, the red dot starts to distort after that). For the money the PVS14/eotech with a good illuminator for those dark nights is hard to beat for the price. Ever see anything digital run for 50 hrs + on one set of batteries? PVS14 runs forever.
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