Night Vision NV/Thermal noob in seek of guidance!

[4O6shootist]

Need some suggestions on what to get for night ops/Thermal hunting. I've currently got weapon sights covered, super hogster on ar15, clipir-lr on the bolt gun. I have a bump cap, ir illuminator light, streamlight sidewinder, rhino2 ti mount and socket. I want to run helmet mount NV and thermal. Is a nox/pvs14 ideal for hunting/scanning? Perhaps a pvs14 and an iray mh25? Maybe the new fusion Jerry fb? I plan to set the utv up with IR lights to help while driving using the NV.

 

[aslrookie]

Some people can make a thermal mono and PVS14 work together on a bridge mount. Others have not been successful with it. Most people that have both, use NV to navigate and thermal to shoot/detect.

@wigwamitus is a good source for someone who uses NV and thermal monoculars together on a helmet.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

most people running dual band devices on a bridge are not fusing the image. it really doesnt work and isnt the intent generally. having both capabilities as needed. that said a nox18 and 14 is a wonderful combo on a bridge

 

[wigwamitus]

haha, thx for the kind into asl !

Yes, I've been using thermal & NV on head now for 7 years. Q-14, IR-Patrol, various COTIs, Skeet, Breach all with or without 1 or 2 PVS-14s. But as always, it depends a bit on what you are trying to do.

The cotis are great for enhancing ability so see/hit critters in vegetation with laser. There are cases where the thermal can see the critter, but the 14s can't, though the 14 can still see the laser. This sort of case is the "magic" of fusion or the thermal overlay. Here's my latest coti type setup.

CP Nightcap with 14 and C5E on left eye. Right eye open. This is light and unbulky and the 640 on the C5E gives enhanced PID distance over the 320 COTIs that only have 20 FOV. However the 40 FOV on the C5E does tend to completely obscure the NV view of the terrain. You can turn down the thermal, but that doesn't improve the thermal's ability to PID the critters. The NV can of course see the laser or other active light source, regardless.

==
Here's two 14s with a 320 coti, another standard setup. This gives you some depth of field with the dual 14s and still the ability to detect critters and even PID/shoot with laser close in. I use this sort of setup mostly in the warm half of the year as the vegetation closes off lines of fire thru various tree lines, which in the cooler half, I can shoot thru with bolt guns off tripods.

==
Now here's just a breach and a 14. The breach shines for navigating thru the woods on "dark" night (no moon + overcast) ... the 14 as always, can at least see the laser.
Comparing the breach to the coti 320s ... the breach can detect farther out, the coti can see a bit more detail closer in. About 600yds detection range for the breach, 500yds for the coti 320s.

==

Here's a varied line up, from left to right:

single 14
single breach
14+Skeet
14+Patrol w/ 3x magnifier

==

Here's a skeet with 14 and coti on one helmet setup.

This gives the best of both worlds. Long distance detection and PID with skeet, short distance fusion/thermal overlay for shooting with laser with the COTI and as always, the 14 for seeing the laser. T

==

So, again, whether to use a thermal monocular or a COTI on your head, for me, depends on what distances I am expecting to be observing and/or shooting. For closer in fast shots with laser, definitely the COTI, for farther out observing/PIDing, definitely a monocular. Or if doing both, then both !!

 

[4O6shootist]

@wigwamitus i hunt 90% open country in MT and WY. Long range detection is essential. Still need to be mobile and have decent depth perception navigating brush, rocks and other terrain. Would the nox18/rh25/mh25 in black hot bridged to a pvs14 with white phos tubes be best for this? When on set, could power down NV and just scan with thermal. Once back mobile bring the nv back online? Also need to find a weapons mountable lrf. I see your radius. Idk why someone hasn't come out with a 2k$ non ballistic, mountable lrf with ir laser. Sig are you listening?!

 

[wigwamitus]

Ok 406 - Always good to have context when thinking about options !!

Yes a higher end monocular like the nox-18 would be ideal for longer distance scanning !

As KSE says, don't expect "fusion" between the thermal and NV monoculars. But having both up there on your head means you can switch back and forth between them hands free while moving, whereas with the classical " thermal monocular in the pocket" solution you must stop, remove thermal from pocket, hold up and scan and then when done, return thermal monocular to pocket and resume movement. I can scan 240 to my front even with rolling on 4 wheeler - hands free - while moving !

==

... When on set, could power down NV and just scan with thermal. Once back mobile bring the nv back online?

If your brain can't switch back and forth between the images (mine can - your probably can too if you try it with an open mind !) you can "power down" the NV hands free while moving ... with your EYE LID. And then "power back up the NV while powering down the thermal" with your EYELID. Don't need to touch anything to switch back and forth !

==

... Also need to find a weapons mountable lrf ...

I still see radii available for sale on 2nd hand market right here in the PX, last time I checked (a few days ago).

 

[4O6shootist]

Sounds like a good quality pvs14 with filmless white phos paired with a Nox18 on a panobridge is going to be the direction I go.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Sounds like a good quality pvs14 with filmless white phos paired with a Nox18 on a panobridge is going to be the direction I go.

The nox makes an excellent helmet mount. The only downside being its a little on the heavy side but if you strip the weapon mount and run a cr123 as backup to to plug power it weighs about what a pvs14 does.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Sounds like a good quality pvs14 with filmless white phos paired with a Nox18 on a panobridge is going to be the direction I go.

In my opinion the NOX is a bit too big and heavy for helmet use compared to some other options out there. The MH25 from IRay is tiny and a cheaper option while still having a great image but it can’t be used as a weapon sight. The RH25 from IRay is more versatile than the NOX, it’s smaller, lighter and can be used as a clip on while the NOX can’t. Btw, it’s cheaper than the NOX also.

If you need anything let me know sir, I’d be glad to help.

Jay

 

[4O6shootist]

In my opinion the NOX is a bit too big and heavy for helmet use compared to some other options out there. The MH25 from IRay is tiny and a cheaper option while still having a great image but it can’t be used as a weapon sight. The RH25 from IRay is more versatile than the NOX, it’s smaller, lighter and can be used as a clip on while the NOX can’t. Btw, it’s cheaper than the NOX also.

If you need anything let me know sir, I’d be glad to help.

Jay

Isn't the rh25 having some growing pains? Jello image, firmware problems? Been following that thread. Sounds like its potentially problematic from end user reports. However you always read the bad news, never the happy customers.

 

[aslrookie]

@wigwamitus i hunt 90% open country in MT and WY. Long range detection is essential. Still need to be mobile and have decent depth perception navigating brush, rocks and other terrain. Would the nox18/rh25/mh25 in black hot bridged to a pvs14 with white phos tubes be best for this? When on set, could power down NV and just scan with thermal. Once back mobile bring the nv back online? Also need to find a weapons mountable lrf. I see your radius. Idk why someone hasn't come out with a 2k$ non ballistic, mountable lrf with ir laser. Sig are you listening?!

Maybe it’s because I’ve always had dual tube NV but would dual NV and a thermal clip on/weapon sight fit the application? Living in the Midwest, it’s pretty flat, woods and worst case scenario you trip over a branch or step in a hole.

Sounds like your terrain has higher consequences for falling. A buddy of mine and I were out navigating with nods. At the time, he just had a 14. He ate shit hard and almost destroyed his 14 the way he landed. He slipped on a large rounded rock. After trying my duals, he said screw it and got duals himself.

I know your average grunt is only going to have a 14 and with many hours, you can make it work. I have played with the idea of selling my duals and going with a 14/thermal bridge combo. However, when I get the chance to try out a nice high spec 14, I still prefer my comm spec L3 duals.

In my state, you can only hunt coyotes with NV/thermal equipment, so that’s my experience. With that said, I’ve heard packs of yotes well within 100 yards and never saw them. It’s also dense woods too in the summertime. I just can’t think of a time where I thought to myself “fuck dual NV, I want 14/thermal instead.” I’d rather have dual NV and a thermal clip on or dedicated weapon mounted.

Just another option and more money to burn

 

[4O6shootist]

Maybe it’s because I’ve always had dual tube NV but would dual NV and a thermal clip on/weapon sight fit the application? Living in the Midwest, it’s pretty flat, woods and worst case scenario you trip over a branch or step in a hole.

Sounds like your terrain has higher consequences for falling. A buddy of mine and I were out navigating with nods. At the time, he just had a 14. He ate shit hard and almost destroyed his 14 the way he landed. He slipped on a large rounded rock. After trying my duals, he said screw it and got duals himself.

I know your average grunt is only going to have a 14 and with many hours, you can make it work. I have played with the idea of selling my duals and going with a 14/thermal bridge combo. However, when I get the chance to try out a nice high spec 14, I still prefer my comm spec L3 duals.

In my state, you can only hunt coyotes with NV/thermal equipment, so that’s my experience. With that said, I’ve heard packs of yotes well within 100 yards and never saw them. It’s also dense woods too in the summertime. I just can’t think of a time where I thought to myself “fuck dual NV, I want 14/thermal instead.” I’d rather have dual NV and a thermal clip on or dedicated weapon mounted.

Just another option and more money to burn

I have thermal sights for close range ar, long range bolt gun. However I feel scanning with a good helmet thermal will detect more critters quickly vs running dual nv on helmet and thermal on the rifle. You'd basically have to be on the gun 100% of time to locate vermin. I find it odd your friend wiped out with single nv, as everyone states nv gives much better navigation ability and depth perception vs a thermal monocular. Decisions decisions........

 

[wigwamitus]

Hecque, get it all, u will eventually, just a matter of what to get next

 

[SkyScrapin]

Hecque, get it all, u will eventually, just a matter of what to get next

Truer words aint nevvvva been spoken!

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Isn't the rh25 having some growing pains? Jello image, firmware problems? Been following that thread. Sounds like its potentially problematic from end user reports. However you always read the bad news, never the happy customers.

It had some yes but they’ve since been ironed out with firmware updates. I think that’s the only consistent problem I’ve heard of so far though.

Jay

 

[4O6shootist]

It had some yes but they’ve since been ironed out with firmware updates. I think that’s the only consistent problem I’ve heard of so far though.

Jay

Jay, would you say the rh25 has any advantages over a Nox18 if running as only helmet mounted thermal?