Night Vision NV vs Thermal Effective Ranges

[FredHammer]

Friend sent me a Pulsar Digex C50 to play with, figure out for him while he's away for work. Looks like with the factory IR illuminator I could shoot a critter at 250yds on base mag of 3.5X. I forgot to check the 7X and 14X. Tonight's mission.

So, 250yds is plenty distance to shoot the things he has in mind, but I was curious how far the 640 thermal jobs like the Thermion 2s, AGM Ratters and like will allow a clear sight picture for a coyote/hog hit.

 

[kirsch]

I recently made a kill shot on a coyote with a Super Yoter LRF at 576 yards. I wouldn't want to make a living shooting at those distances, but a lot depends on humidity, quality of thermal, quality of gun, and shooter's ability. 640 resolution, 12µm scopes (and better) are totally capable of providing the image quality necessary for 400 yards. I am not posting this recommending people take regular shots like this, but they are possible.

 

[dirtybores]

My experience with the Rattler 640 core mimics the statement above with ~400 being the high confidence shooting zone and a dropoff thereafter, extended mainly by other external factors.

 

[FuhQ]

I just ordered an AGM Rattler TS50-640 for my main (high-quality) night scope, and an AGM Neith NV (for a cheap knock-around). I'll find out soon...

The Neith was purchased from Midway yesterday evening, and they overnighted it for like $10, and it will be here tomorrow (talk about ridiculous shipping service! ), but not sure when the hell the Rattler will get here. Amazon said the 8-10th, but it ain't even shipped yet, and I bought it 1.5 weeks ago and it was "in-stock" and it was a Prime purchase shipped and sold by Amazon. They charged my card a few days ago. Don't know WTF their holdup is shipping it out, but it's really pissing me off. I can buy a $10 item and have it in 2 days, but I buy a $3,500 thermal scope and I'll get it 2 fucking weeks later. Their priorities need to be rearranged.

 

[Evolution 9]

Sight picture won’t be your limitation with any 640 that has a little magnification.

The limitations are:

1. Identification (often easy based on animal movement).

2. Range estimation in the dark (very difficult without something like the impact4000).

3. Reticle hold. Even if you know the range, how do you know where to hold??? Very few thermals have a meaningful and useful reticle for holds.

A little experience, an impact4000, and a thermal like a Nox35 that has a mil reticle can make hits quite possible almost as far as daytime shooting.

Here’s some elk at over 1000 yards through a 640 thermal. Easy enough shot if I wanted to (not legal).

 

[Sgp12345]

Sight picture won’t be your limitation with any 640 that has a little magnification.

The limitations are:

1. Identification (often easy based on animal movement).

2. Range estimation in the dark (very difficult without something like the impact4000).

3. Reticle hold. Even if you know the range, how do you know where to hold??? Very few thermals have a meaningful and useful reticle for holds.

A little experience, an impact4000, and a thermal like a Nox35 that has a mil reticle can make hits quite possible almost as far as daytime shooting.

Here’s some elk at over 1000 yards through a 640 thermal. Easy enough shot if I wanted to (not legal).
View attachment 8291043

And what 640 thermal is this?

 

[Evolution 9]

Voodoo-M

 

[Sgp12345]

Voodoo-M

Figures

 

[Evolution 9]

Figures

There’s no question the Voodoo-M gives a serious advantage for shots like this, but with a Nox35 or Halo LR it’s more possible than you might think. There are videos on YouTube of 8-900 yard coyote kills with LR or XRF (LR with a range finder).

Few guys test/train the reticles to see what’s possible.

 

[Sgp12345]

There’s no question the Voodoo-M gives a serious advantage for shots like this, but with a Nox35 or Halo LR it’s more possible than you might think. There are videos on YouTube of 8-900 yard coyote kills with LR or XRF (LR with a range finder).

Few guys test/train the reticles to see what’s possible.

For sure, I was just hoping when you responded you didn’t name a $20k thermal. I’d love to see photos of a halo35 or LR at 500 yards to see what an animal looks like.

 

[Evolution 9]

For sure, I was just hoping when you responded you didn’t name a $20k thermal. I’d love to see photos of a halo35 or LR at 500 yards to see what an animal looks like.

The Tibetan yak bull is very close to the Reap-ir (same image as a Nox35). But the cedar fence posts in the very top right of the picture (zoom in) are over 500 yards. If you can easily target a 4” wide fence post at 500, a coyote or larger target is a breeze. In fact, I made a 470 yard one shot coyote kill on that hill with a RAPTAR for range with that Reap-ir.

Now, you still need the range and a useful reticle but the image is more than adequate.

There’s a Reap in the px for 4100 so that’s 1/5 the price and still capable (reticles aren’t my favorite but otherwise excellent).

 

[Sgp12345]

Thanks for the photos! Now if only I could find a reap for $3500.. ha I’m jk about that

 

[Evolution 9]

Thanks for the photos! Now if only I could find a reap for $3500.. ha I’m jk about that

At least you know that a guy with a Voodoo-M still puts his money where his mouth is regarding the Reap-ir/Nox35 . They are absolutely the steal of the decade at their used prices. I can’t believe people pay the same amount for Chinese when they could have BAE core USA units.

Even when out of warranty, they get factory support at very reasonable rates.

 

[rlsmith1]

Sight picture won’t be your limitation with any 640 that has a little magnification.

The limitations are:

1. Identification (often easy based on animal movement).

2. Range estimation in the dark (very difficult without something like the impact4000).

3. Reticle hold. Even if you know the range, how do you know where to hold??? Very few thermals have a meaningful and useful reticle for holds.

A little experience, an impact4000, and a thermal like a Nox35 that has a mil reticle can make hits quite possible almost as far as daytime shooting.

Here’s some elk at over 1000 yards through a 640 thermal. Easy enough shoot if I wanted to (not legal).
View attachment 8291043

I’m sure the ZCO doesn’t hurt the image either! You run the 5-27 or 4-20?

How does a MK5 3.6-18 or NX8 2.5-20 stack up to the ZCO behind the Voodoo?


ETA: I totally agree on your comments about the NOX, my 18 is so good but it’s kinda crazy to hear you say that about the 35. Makes me excited for their clip on!

 

[Evolution 9]

That was a 4-20. I only owned it a short while and decided I wanted something lighter (and cheaper) for the 6 ARC it was riding on. I’ve only used the 4-20 and a 1-8 ATACR with the M so far so I’m not much help comparing different glass with it.

 

[rlsmith1]

That was a 4-20. I only owned it a short while and decided I wanted something lighter (and cheaper) for the 6 ARC it was riding on. I’ve only used the 4-20 and a 1-8 ATACR with the M so far so I’m not much help comparing different glass with it.

Did you feel like the other glass you’ve put behind it was a meaningful step back, or even noticeable?

 

[Evolution 9]

Same, with the obvious exception of mag range, but that’s a sample of two scopes, so not much.

 

[NHPiper]

Sight picture won’t be your limitation with any 640 that has a little magnification.

The limitations are:

1. Identification (often easy based on animal movement).

2. Range estimation in the dark (very difficult without something like the impact4000).

3. Reticle hold. Even if you know the range, how do you know where to hold??? Very few thermals have a meaningful and useful reticle for holds.

A little experience, an impact4000, and a thermal like a Nox35 that has a mil reticle can make hits quite possible almost as far as daytime shooting.

Here’s some elk at over 1000 yards through a 640 thermal. Easy enough shot if I wanted to (not legal).
View attachment 8291043

That an X-ELR

 

[kirsch]

For sure, I was just hoping when you responded you didn’t name a $20k thermal. I’d love to see photos of a halo35 or LR at 500 yards to see what an animal looks like.

Here is a Super Yoter LRF at almost 600 yards and I zoom the coyote to 12X right before I shoot. This is at almost 90% humidity, and I also did not have time to focus the scope.



It isn't 600 yards, but I tested an XRF earlier this year. I ranged a coyote during the video at 362 yards in 100% humidity and fog. If the coyote would have stopped and not moved any further, I could have taken him without an issue at the range, but it was still coming to the call, so take the higher % shot.

 

[FuhQ]

My new AGM Neith NV scope came in today, and I got it all setup and put it on a sturdy table top tripod and went outside and took some video and photos at different things in my slough. The local dock company's barge, and some of the houses and a big Komatsu excavator are 600+ yards away, but still look great for a $799 scope...

These (screenshot - not full-resolution) images aren't that great compared to how it looks in person, but the video footage turned out really well. Here's a neighbor's pontoon boat that's about 200 yards away... And the 2nd pic is another neighbor's house that's about 100 yards away. This is all with the factory IR light that comes built-in, and with the "Smart-IR" setting on. I took some video footage, and will post a YouTube video with the footage sometime this weekend.

 

[FredHammer]

Here is a Super Yoter LRF at almost 600 yards and I zoom the coyote to 12X right before I shoot. This is at almost 90% humidity, and I also did not have time to focus the scope.



It isn't 600 yards, but I tested an XRF earlier this year. I ranged a coyote during the video at 362 yards in 100% humidity and fog. If the coyote would have stopped and not moved any further, I could have taken him without an issue at the range, but it was still coming to the call, so take the higher % shot.

Definitely see the difference between a $1400 and high dollar thermal in those vids! For me/my friends use with fixed bait points and known yardage the C50 NV will do a pinpointed job.

 

[TheHorta]

There’s a like new HISS-XLR for sale in the Hide PX. Perfect entry-level thermal clipon.

 

[Kino]

For sure, I was just hoping when you responded you didn’t name a $20k thermal. I’d love to see photos of a halo35 or LR at 500 yards to see what an animal looks like.

Here's several at 400 plus, 300 is child's play! I always try to show the actual yardage as well so you can plainly see the real yardage in the video. I've seen lots of videos without video proof of the yardage with a rangefinder and I'm pretty skeptical of claims on the internet

 

[Kino]

One thing I forgot to add, the Halo XRF isn't true front focal plane, it's values are only correct at 2x. I've BEGGED my point of contact at Nvision to do a simple firmware update to make it a true front focal plane at ALL magnification settings. When engaging small targets you need that magnification to make the long shots (especially me!). The way it currently is requires a lot of math and memory. If @Max_R sees this, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give us Nvision guys un upgrade of true front focal plane at all settings!

 

[FuhQ]

Here's a [not so] quick YouTube video I made of the new AGM Neith DS32-4MP sitting on a table-top tripod and overlooking the lake Friday night... More action and shooting videos to come.

 

[Cornpoop69]

One thing I forgot to add, the Halo XRF isn't true front focal plane, it's values are only correct at 2x. I've BEGGED my point of contact at Nvision to do a simple firmware update to make it a true front focal plane at ALL magnification settings. When engaging small targets you need that magnification to make the long shots (especially me!). The way it currently is requires a lot of math and memory. If @Max_R sees this, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give us Nvision guys un upgrade of true front focal plane at all settings!

I thought the reticles divide out equally on greater zooms

 

[Kino]

I thought the reticles divide out equally on greater zooms

They do but the values are only correct,

 

[CrazyDoc]

I have taken deer at 750yds (+/- approximately 2yds) with my Super Yoter C ii that Bering made prior to release. We typically engage from 200-600yd hunting peanut and cotton fields. We've used NV and thermal but thermal just makes much more sense because with NV (PVS 22/27/30) deer and pigs will wash out under IR, fog kills the ability to use IR, and is typically much heavier (Looking at you PVS30). We have several different thermals from the SYC ii, ELR (mk1.5?), or the UTC xii. All of them do very well with the ELR and UTC xii clearly beating out the SYC ii at long range but lacking the "fun features" of the civi SYC. UTC xii is badass because its TINY. ELR runs with the UTC xii and has better quality of life features, but is MUCH larger.

All that said, both thermal and NV let you shoot way on out there, but thermal is king for living targets.

 

[FuhQ]

I have taken deer at 750yds (+/- approximately 2yds) with my Super Yoter C ii that Bering made prior to release. We typically engage from 200-600yd hunting peanut and cotton fields. We've used NV and thermal but thermal just makes much more sense because with NV (PVS 22/27/30) deer and pigs will wash out under IR, fog kills the ability to use IR, and is typically much heavier (Looking at you PVS30). We have several different thermals from the SYC ii, ELR (mk1.5?), or the UTC xii. All of them do very well with the ELR and UTC xii clearly beating out the SYC ii at long range but lacking the "fun features" of the civi SYC. UTC xii is badass because its TINY. ELR runs with the UTC xii and has better quality of life features, but is MUCH larger.

All that said, both thermal and NV let you shoot way on out there, but thermal is king for living targets.

You should checkout the new AGM Neith NV. Weighs the same as a thermal, and has an amazing picture even at distance. I've been very impressed with mine. I bought it a few months ago.

They also just dropped a brand new version with a LRF feature in both a scope and clip-on version at SHOT yesterday. I found that Classic Firearms has them for sale already, and bought the clip-on to try.

I do have a Rattler TS50-640 thermal, as well, And it's quite impressive image for a thermal. It even picked up an airplane last Friday... It was LONG way off, but it shows up CLEAR!

 

[Evolution 9]

Thanks for the photos! Now if only I could find a reap for $3500.. ha I’m jk about that

There’s a Trijicon IR hunter (same thermal, different housing) for 3500 right now on tacswap.

Here

 

[FuhQ]

There’s a Trijicon IR hunter (same thermal, different housing) for 3500 right now on tacswap.

Here

A local guy has that same optic... He bough it brand new late last year for his 50th b'day. It's the IR-Hunter 60mm/2 (same as above). It's nice, but the image quality is not on par with other units in its price range. It's a solid unit, but a bit dated, IMO.

 

[Evolution 9]

The one I linked is the 35mm. It has the same magnification as the Reap. Basically a Reap in a different housing.

I’ve yet to see any unit anywhere at any price up to $21,000 that has a better image than the good old BAE core provides. This is a sampling of about 35 thermals that I’ve used. I realize it’s subjective. It’s also common for people to not optimize their settings for the conditions so that may also be a factor.

What I HAVE seen, is that some conditions make one core shine while other conditions make another core shine. There are days/conditions where a $3000 China thermal beat good BAE cores.

 

[FuhQ]

The one I linked is the 35mm. It has the same magnification as the Reap. Basically a Reap in a different housing.

I’ve yet to see any unit anywhere at any price up to $21,000 that has a better image than the good old BAE core provides. This is a sampling of about 35 thermals that I’ve used. Maybe it’s subjective or maybe there was something wrong with the one you looked at.

What I HAVE seen, is that some conditions make one core shine while other conditions make another core shine. There are days/conditions where a $3000 China thermal beat good BAE cores.

Yeah, I know what they are. I was looking at buying a REAP-IR 60mm, but ended up looking through other options, I realized the image was kind of dated and not that great for the price. There was nothing wrong with his, it was brand new, he had only had it for like a couple weeks. I spend a few hours looking through it and adjusting everything to find the best image for my eyes, and it was good, but others looked better to my eyes. Plus, no onboard recording, and it's a heavy MF'er.

 

[tekmann2377]

I have compared a PVS 30 vs several thermals, including a Super Yoter, Pulsar, Clip XELR, and the latest generation IR Hunter in both 35 and 60 mm. Both myself and my friend who had PVS-30 agreed we prefer the XELR for long range shooting above all the others. The use of the same reticle and/or ability to dial are huge advantages. The PVS-30 is good too but the need for illumination and difficulty in differentiating animals when there is surrounding cover are a notable disadvantage. With the XELR, 500+ yard shots are a definite possibility. The main problem is trying spot a miss at long range.

Also I am not sure what Trijicon's you guys are looking through that don't measure up. The latest generation of the IR Hunter's have very good image quality that is really only matched by other high end products with BAE cores. The image detail and depth is better than even the Theon cores used in the ClipIR products.

 

[Sgp12345]

I have compared a PVS 30 vs several thermals, including a Super Yoter, Pulsar, Clip XELR, and the latest generation IR Hunter in both 35 and 60 mm. Both myself and my friend who had PVS-30 agreed we prefer the XELR for long range shooting above all the others. The use of the same reticle and/or ability to dial are huge advantages. The PVS-30 is good too but the need for illumination and difficulty in differentiating animals when there is surrounding cover are a notable disadvantage. With the XELR, 500+ yard shots are a definite possibility. The main problem is trying spot a miss at long range.

Also I am not sure what Trijicon's you guys are looking through that don't measure up. The latest generation of the IR Hunter's have very good image quality that is really only matched by other high end products with BAE cores. The image detail and depth is better than even the Theon cores used in the ClipIR products.

FuhQ says his AGM is better than the trijicon. I’d like to see some comparison photos.

 

[taliv]

Here’s a video of some cows laying down at 2908 yards through a clipIR ELR. Scope on 12x. Theres a cow and calf laying together in the empty battery icon. (Actually 3 cows. The big blob on the left in the icon is actually a cow and calf together then another calf to the right) The cars moving on the interstate are a bit over two miles.
The video cycles through the four modes on the thermal


For comparison this is what they looked like through scope without thermal. And zoomed in to 35x.

I agree with the comment above that getting a sight pic isn’t a problem at just about any distance. my 300nm needs over 40 mils to get there but the atacr only has 27 mils of adjustment so thermal isn’t even close to a limiting factor.

 

[TheHorta]

I haven’t heard of anyone yet with a ClipIR xELR (ELR) that is perfectly collimated. Seems the standard “systemic” POI shift is 1-2 MOA with a handful at 3+ MOA. This is across dozens of different users on likely the same number of guns or more, so differences are just gonna be a fact of life, but…

If you have a “Golden Sample” ELR with ZERO POI shift (or as good as zero) please sound off!

For “Science”, please include:

Serial Number of unit.
Rifle(s) and optic(s) used.
Optic height.
How did you confirm POI shift?

Lastly, please include a photo of your entire rig and — if you’re willing to put in the time — a photo with two consecutive 5-shot groups of with and without. I’ve heard a few complaints of groups opening up a fair bit with the clipon mounted.

My experience across two different units was 1-2 MOA shift (probably 1.5 if trying to be precise) and my groups seemed to open up about 0.5-1.0 MOA more. It was the same on both, and have heard similar reports from other experienced users, which makes me believe it’s systemic.

It’s super easy to dial-in, as long as you remember, and in fact MIL shooters will usually have the POI shift marked onto their units or on the bag it travels in. It’s pretty common, so it comes with the territory. I think it’s much more difficult to collimate something with no optical path that has a TV screen inside of it than it is a NV clipon that passes the image straight through.

 

[taliv]

@TheHorta
I don’t think mines perfect but it’s within two tenths of a mil. TBH I haven’t shot any groups on paper. I don’t have a good thermal paper target. But when I shoot at the ipsc hostage setup with heater on back that I posted about (here:
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/poor-man’s-thermal-targets-clipir-elr-video.7195970/ ) I tend to need to come down a tenth and then crowd the hostage lol or I shoot over the bad guy head. That’s at 415yd so maybe not the best setup for “science”. My groups have probably opened up a little bit but I just assumed that was my difficulty getting a consistent thermal sight pic. It’s just not as precise as using 1/2” or smaller dots with a day scope. Aim small etc etc.

You’ve got me curious though so if you have a recommended way to confirm the shift I’d be happy to try it.

Sn ends in 059 (I’ll pm the whole thing to you if it’s important)
Rifle is impact by Wade in terrys stock and EFR rail (I forget what Terry calls it) with nf 7-35 in sphur mount. Tbac can

 

[TheHorta]

@TheHorta
I don’t think mines perfect but it’s within two tenths of a mil. TBH I haven’t shot any groups on paper. I don’t have a good thermal paper target. But when I shoot at the ipsc hostage setup with heater on back that I posted about (here:
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/poor-man’s-thermal-targets-clipir-elr-video.7195970/ ) I tend to need to come down a tenth and then crowd the hostage lol or I shoot over the bad guy head. That’s at 415yd so maybe not the best setup for “science”. My groups have probably opened up a little bit but I just assumed that was my difficulty getting a consistent thermal sight pic. It’s just not as precise as using 1/2” or smaller dots with a day scope. Aim small etc etc.

You’ve got me curious though so if you have a recommended way to confirm the shift I’d be happy to try it.

Sn ends in 059 (I’ll pm the whole thing to you if it’s important)
Rifle is impact by Wade in terrys stock and EFR rail (I forget what Terry calls it) with nf 7-35 in sphur mount. Tbac can

View attachment 8334289

Good info!

I think much of it may have to do with rifle/optic/mount height, etc. I know of 2 or 3 guys that have a TON of experience (like SOF snipers and high-placing USASOC dudes) that get around 1-1.5 MOA / 0.3-0.5 MIL. It makes me wonder if the Theons are very sensitive to rail offset and vertical alignment. Some MFGs are very sensitive, where some others are very tolerant.

Regardless, every thermal should natively come with screen shift POI adjustment and multiple rifle memories. It seems optical collimation is looking more and more overrated as time goes on.

 

[taliv]

Good info!

I think much of it may have to do with rifle/optic/mount height, etc. I know of 2 or 3 guys that have a TON of experience (like SOF snipers and high-placing USASOC dudes) that get around 1-1.5 MOA / 0.3-0.5 MIL. It makes me wonder if the Theons are very sensitive to rail offset and vertical alignment. Some MFGs are very sensitive, where some others are very tolerant.

Regardless, every thermal should natively come with screen shift POI adjustment and multiple rifle memories. It seems optical collimation is looking more and more overrated as time goes on.

My experience with collimation on short pvs27 and long cnvd-lr is that some are definitely more sensitive. I think the ClipIR ELR is pretty similar to pvs27 in that regard.
In the spring I plan to shoot the new axsr I just got a lot with thermal. I don’t expect the coloration to be the same on that essentially flat rail as it is on the impact/efr.

 

[st1650]

My personal limit for thermal is 500m.
My setup is the Iray Bolt TH50v2 3.5x base mag 640 core
I also have the Iray Bluetooth LRF which is accurate enough and gives me my distance in the HUD.
Then I made a custom BDC reticle through the Iray app.
Zero 50/150
Bottom of center X in the crosshair 200
Then first dot 300
Second dot 400
Third dot 500

500m would be pushing it for yotes but I have repeatedly shot a 4in steel at that distance with this thermal so I’d be pretty confident depending on terrain and position.

It does pretty well for the relatively low cost.

 

[Evolution 9]

Regardless, every thermal should natively come with screen shift POI adjustment and multiple rifle memories. It seems optical collimation is looking more and more overrated as time goes on.

If we applied this same approach to other fields..,

Qualified dentists are getting rare, so it seems quality dental work is looking overrated as time goes on.

It seems rifles aren’t being made reliable or accurate anymore so it seems quality rifles are looking overrated as time goes on.

It seems aircraft aren’t being made safe anymore (maybe becoming true ) so safely standards in aviation are looking overrated as time goes on.

None of those are acceptable responses to failure in an industry.

Yes, shifting the screen addresses PART of the problem of inaccurate collimation. And yes, where necessary, I’ll employ this method.

But real actual physical collimation has existed with a pretty high degree of reliability for approximately 2 decades in both night vision and thermal clip ons. It’s no less attainable today.

If the new kids can’t reverse engineer those clip-ons, that doesn’t make real collimation any less superior. It just makes the new kids inferior.

We will have to make do with what the market gives us, but if we willingly accept a 2 decade regression in thermal technology, that’s exactly what we’re going to get.

***so as not to be a hypocrite I must admit that one of my backup clip ons is a screen adjusting Chyna (Trump pronunciation) doodad

I do agree having the ability to adjust can’t hurt so it should be there, I’m just not willing to accept that instead of real collimation.

 

[rlsmith1]

If we applied this same approach to other fields..,

Qualified dentists are getting rare, so it seems quality dental work is looking overrated as time goes on.

It seems rifles aren’t being made reliable or accurate anymore so it seems quality rifles are looking overrated as time goes on.

It seems aircraft aren’t being made safe anymore (maybe becoming true ) so safely standards in aviation are looking overrated as time goes on.

None of those are acceptable responses to failure in an industry.

Yes, shifting the screen addresses PART of the problem of inaccurate collimation. And yes, where necessary, I’ll employ this method.

But real actual physical collimation has existed with a pretty high degree of reliability for approximately 2 decades in both night vision and thermal clip ons. It’s no less attainable today.

If the new kids can’t reverse engineer those clip-ons, that doesn’t make real collimation any less superior. It just makes the new kids inferior.

We will have to make do with what the market gives us, but if we willingly accept a 2 decade regression in thermal technology, that’s exactly what we’re going to get.

***so as not to be a hypocrite I must admit that one of my backup clip ons is a screen adjusting Chyna (Trump pronunciation) doodad

I do agree having the ability to adjust can’t hurt so it should be there, I’m just not willing to accept that instead of real collimation.

Preach!! Here for a folded, optically collimated, 10um, 1280 unit with 10 to 12deg FOV. It would be the ultimate do all clip on if they can make it weigh what the UTC Xii did years ago

 

[riverside jeep]

O P question of effective range, I don't know about effective but I've spotted and identified elk at around 1-1/2 -2 miles away with a Super Hogster playing around at camp.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I guess there is something to be said for "old time Swiss watch makers"

Precision craftsmen.

 

[FuhQ]

FuhQ says his AGM is better than the trijicon. I’d like to see some comparison photos.

Did I say my AGM was better? Nope... Did I even mention my AGM in either of those posts? Nope... I've actually stated several times that the image quality as about the same, but one costs half as much as the other. If they're that damn close, why spend double the price for a Triji unit, just because it says Trijicon and has a BAE core, if image quality and resolution is nearly identical?

 

[Sgp12345]

Did I say my AGM was better? Nope... Did I even mention my AGM in either of those posts? Nope... I've actually stated several times that the image quality as about the same, but one costs half as much as the other. If they're that damn close, why spend double the price for a Triji unit, just because it says Trijicon and has a BAE core, if image quality and resolution is nearly identical?

You said this above “Yeah, I know what they are. I was looking at buying a REAP-IR 60mm, but ended up looking through other options, I realized the image was kind of dated and not that great for the price. There was nothing wrong with his, it was brand new, he had only had it for like a couple weeks. I spend a few hours looking through it and adjusting everything to find the best image for my eyes, and it was good, but others looked better to my eyes. Plus, no onboard recording, and it's a heavy MF'er.”

So when you say others looked better, did you not mean the unit you ended up buying? And you’ve definitely brought up the comparison in more than one thread. For what it’s worth, I wasn’t talking shit earlier. I’d like to see a comparison.

 

[FuhQ]

You said this above “Yeah, I know what they are. I was looking at buying a REAP-IR 60mm, but ended up looking through other options, I realized the image was kind of dated and not that great for the price. There was nothing wrong with his, it was brand new, he had only had it for like a couple weeks. I spend a few hours looking through it and adjusting everything to find the best image for my eyes, and it was good, but others looked better to my eyes. Plus, no onboard recording, and it's a heavy MF'er.”

So when you say others looked better, did you not mean the unit you ended up buying? And you’ve definitely brought up the comparison in more than one thread. For what it’s worth, I wasn’t talking shit earlier. I’d like to see a comparison.

If it was possible, I would have. But, being that the IR-HUNTER units don't have onboard audio/video/image capabilities, that would be a really hard true comparison to make and post online. Because trying to take pictures through a scope, with a phone is kind of a losing battle. So, unless you were looking at them in-person, it's kind of impossible to get true resolution images to post with the Trijicon.

 

[rlsmith1]

I guess there is something to be said for "old time Swiss watch makers"

Precision craftsmen.

Absolutely. Although the POT guys should be some of those precision craftsmen so they probably have a reason for what they did with the M

 

[TheHorta]

PoT really has some Voodoo to make those adjustable diopters dead-nuts optically collimated with zero POI shift in front of any optic or rifle I have yet to put them on, and I own or have owned two different M’s and four different S’s.