Night Vision NVS M644 4X RAPTOR

[NoveSPR]

Looking to purchase one of these in the next 30 days off TNVC.com and thought Id ask you guys what you thought of the unit and if there are other comparable/better units I should consider in that 5-6k range prior to my purchase. Will be primarily used for coyote hunting over harvested corn and bean fields. Thanks for your input.

 

[IR-V]

Re: NVS M644 4X RAPTOR

Nothing bad to say about the 4X Raptor. If you can handle the larger size of the 6X Raptor, you gain 50% increase in the magnification and a 42% increase in the size of the objective for only about $500 more. The light collection capability from the 178mm objective on the 6x is impressive. For most shooting between 300 and 650 yards with .308, I like 8x magnification. 6x brings me much closer to the 8x. 4x is useful for the distances where .223 would be optimally used. So, a lot of "what to choose" depends on how far you need to and can reach out with your rifle.

The Raptor series are special-purpose scopes. The PVS-14, PVS-22, and PVS-27 are much more versatile in their configuration support for both observation and aiming functions. However, the PVS-22 and PVS-27 have much steeper pricing.

As excellent as the UNS an MUNS "clip-on" scopes are, I do have to say that there can sometimes be unexpected frustrations with visual artifacts resulting from "stacking" even very high quality daytime optics with the night vision optics. So, if that is your primary purpose for a dedicated night vision scope to support medium- to long-distance aiming with magnification, the Raptor will suit your purpose very well.

There are a lot of anecdotal comments about the [lack of] durability of the Raptor. I have found them to be unfounded in actual use. The Raptor scopes are very durable.

The eye-pieces on the Raptor scopes can be the source of great irritation to many shooters. They are shuttered. This means that unless you press your eye socket right up against the eye cup, the rubber valves will remain closed, shutting off all visual access through the ocular end of the scope. I personally have no problems with the shuttered eye-pieces, but some shooters prefer longer eye relief. Shooters with corrective lenses (eye glasses) have enormous problems with shuttered eye-pieces. I will not pass any specific judgement on this matter except to advise that you discuss with TNVC your particular, intended application for the Raptor and let them work with you and advise you on the eye-piece issues and remedies.

IR-V

 

[NoveSPR]

Re: NVS M644 4X RAPTOR

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question so clearly. Being uninitiated to the capabilities of the modern nv equipment, I am thankfull to have such a knowledgeable group to bounce my questions off of. Another concern of mine is the matter of DETECTION. Swinging a 13lb rifle around in a search pattern my be a bit difficult. Is there an easier way to DETECT and ENGAGE at distance (500 and in) A head mounted monocular looks great for detection but the loss of magnigication on a dedicated scope hurts the engagement aspect. Ive considered using thermal to spot and a scope to engage, but it appears you have to spend quite a few bucks to identify any thing past 200 yds.

 

[IR-V]

Re: NVS M644 4X RAPTOR

With increases in magnification, you will automatically suffer decreases in field of view (FOV). A narrow FOV is going to increase your risk for missing opportunities or threats, depending on your task. So for scanning, I recommend sticking with low or "no" magnification and the widest field of view. A hand-held night vision monocular should be ideal for the scanning role.

Key for detecting targets of opportunity or threats "at distance" is the quality of the IR illumination. When well illuminated, distant objects often appear closer because you can see the details clearly. The retinas in the eyes of animals and humans will reflect IR illumination as "bright spots"; and eye wear and the objective lens of scopes (if not fitted with glare filters) will also reflect IR illumination like a bright flare. These reflections of IR light are easy to pick up at distance, especially when they are moving.

There's another thread that addresses IR illumination in great depth.

IR-V

 

[NoveSPR]

Re: NVS M644 4X RAPTOR

It sounds to me that the output of the illuminator is the key part of spotting my targets while hunting. Is there a comparable unit to the Raptor 4 or 6x that I should consider prior to purchase? Can I mount a 6x on an AR platform and is it advisable? I agree that the added magnification is a huge plus for the limited cost. You mentioned losing field of view when going up though. What is the fov on these units. I didnt see anything on the website. Sorry for all the questions, but this is my first time at this, and Id like it to be my last. My theory is to buy the best equipment at the beginning and not have to buy again for a long time. Plus I doubt theres much of a trade in market for these devices.

 

[IR-V]

Re: NVS M644 4X RAPTOR

The 6X Raptor is a bit large and heavy for the AR15/M16. On relative size and weight, it is more compatible, in my opinion, for a rifle in .308 WIN / 7.62x51mm NATO.

FOV for the 6X Raptor is about 30 feet at 100 yards.
FOV for the 4X Raptor is about 44 feet at 100 yards.

These FOV stats compare very favorably with (and substantially exceed that of) most day scopes, and are due in large part to the enormous objective lenses on the Raptor scopes. In fact this is where the Raptor shows unique advantages - while I am really impressed with the light gathering capabilities of the PVS-22 and PVS-27, their FOV is going to be limited by that of the day scope(s) put behind them.

For their specialized purpose and price point, the Raptor scopes are hard to beat. They definitely have their own performance "niche."

IR-V

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoveSPR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It sounds to me that the output of the illuminator is the key part of spotting my targets while hunting. Is there a comparable unit to the Raptor 4 or 6x that I should consider prior to purchase? Can I mount a 6x on an AR platform and is it advisable? I agree that the added magnification is a huge plus for the limited cost. You mentioned losing field of view when going up though. What is the fov on these units. I didnt see anything on the website. Sorry for all the questions, but this is my first time at this, and Id like it to be my last. My theory is to buy the best equipment at the beginning and not have to buy again for a long time. Plus I doubt theres much of a trade in market for these devices. </div></div>

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: NVS M644 4X RAPTOR

A 30' FOV at 100 yards is huge for a 6x scope. The ELCAN SpecterDR and S&B Short Dot have similar FOVs (roughly 6 deg or 100 mils) but at 4x.

 

[IR-V]

Re: NVS M644 4X RAPTOR

The FOV is very impressive on the 6X Raptor, as is the 7.12" diameter objective lens! Although the 6X Raptor is a large assembly, stacking optics (e.g. day scope + MUNS) can become very unwieldy on the overall length.

I like the Raptor scopes. They excel in their niche.

IR-V

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 30' FOV at 100 yards is huge for a 6x scope. The ELCAN SpecterDR and S&B Short Dot have similar FOVs (roughly 6 deg or 100 mils) but at 4x. </div></div>

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Raptor with 'Dapter

I just acquired a Raptor 4x from ASM1 and it does have an impressive sight picture. I was wowed by the image detail and it's easily as good as or better than a new Pinnicle+ PVS-14 with 3x magnifier. While the Raptor is a 3-pound chunk, it fits nicely on my AR at a comfortable height. ASM1 used an Aimpoint ACOG mount to secure the Raptor to the rail, and it works very well. The eyecup shutter is not as bad as I imagined, although it's alot easier with my glasses off. It's a great NV scope!

 

[edwin907]

Re: Raptor with 'Dapter

Now that 4X Raptor is the sh-t!
My brief experience with one was very impressive, resolution was simply fantastic.
Get another eyecut, and cut the shutter blades out of it (large fingernail clipper works perfectly).
That way you have a dedicated sniper cup, and one for times when there is no worry about being detected. I'm a glasses wearer too, and I've never noticed my use of the "easy" cup has hurt my shooting when I'm using the "sniper" cup. You do have to be careful with the eye releif, so that you can compress the cup enough to open the blades, and I'll have to admitt, more and more I use the "easy" cup.

My D-760 GenIII (incredible tube from Vic). It's no Raptor, but it is a very good NV scope.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: Raptor with 'Dapter

Lot's of folks including me cut out those darn shark teeth inside those shutter EG's with an X-ACTO. It does help.