OAL is shrinking in the magazine-tried everything W...T...FAAAAAAAAK????

[nnnn16]

I noticed strange velocities while building a load to run from the magazine. I figured out that my COAL is shrinking in the magazine from recoil. So I increased the neck pressure by going to a .285 bushing instead of a .289 bushing, necks are between 13 and 15 thousandths, this helped none. Next I ordered a factory crimping die, this helped some but it is still happening. I am so frustrated I might wrap the rifle around a tree if I don't get this figured out. The brass is well used Hornady brass that I have had really great results with but until now I have loaded for prone single load shooting with this rifle. Do I need new brass? It was freshly annealed and I even tried some that wasn't annealed but it didn't make any difference. The bullet is the 156gr EOL and it is loaded just short enough to load dependably from the magazine 2.945ish Base To Tip.

The rifle is a TL3 short action, Proof CF with hellfire brake in an Element 3.0 Magnesium and the magazines are Accurate Mag 300WSM magazines. I realize this is a light rifle but with the scope, magazine, and break it is just over 10 pounds. I know for a fact that there are 8 pound rifles out there that aren't having this issue. Should I just accept that this is going to happen and put weight back on the rifle? The recoil in my opinion is mild, certainly not enough to explain the issue.

I'm hoping "The Hide" can come to my rescue yet again and remedy my ignorance.

Please and Thank You
Nathan

 

[Boxerglocker]

You pretty much stated your problem.... " brass is well used Hornady brass that I have had really great results with but until" Brass annealed of not wears out. You should at least try a new lot of brass as a control.

 

[Kadams1563]

I’ve never heard of necks wearing out before primer pockets or case heads though.

 

[Boxerglocker]

I’ve never heard of necks wearing out before primer pockets or case heads though.

I would have to say I really haven't either.... but can neither prove that is or isn't the case. I know that i have had issues developing a load with a particular lot of brass, great numbers but just wouldn't group for sh!t. Tried everything, different bushings and mandrels. Finally asked a much more experienced shooter/handloader friend and he said the same thing. Try a different lot of brass... I did and the planets aligned. My point as stated prior is he needs a control, even just 20 rounds to test. If it happens with the control batch then obviously it's the method if not it's the brass.

 

[nnnn16]

I'm pretty sure I have a half a box of factory Hornady ammunition on the shelf. I'll try some of that brass when I get home. I should have thought to do that. I just assumed it was my process. I'll try it this weekend and report back. Thank You

 

[mick243]

I’ve never heard of necks wearing out before primer pockets or case heads though.

yep - neck splitting/loss of tension is the failure mode I most often retire my brass for....

BUT, most of the time my brass is neck sized only (for certain competition use) , once it becomes tight in the chamber it gets full lengthed and chucked in the hunting ammo pile where I dont care if I loose a few etc after ten maybe 15 firings there is usually no life left in the neck

 

[never_summer]

How are you annealing? Could you be over annealing the necks?

 

[nnnn16]

Possibly. I used an annealeaz. Its not an exact art but the cases never got red hot or anything. Now that you bring it up they sized extremely precisely. Literally within half a thousandth of each other at the shoulder. It makes sense that they would size perfectly if they were to soft

 

[nnnn16]

Tried the once fired brass and had zero shrinkage.
THANK YOU
Now, does this mean that i ruined all 300 peices of brass that i over annealled?? This would have been the 4th firing with a medium load so surely the necks weren't n't worn out. Either way it sucks.
Its back to school for me. Right when i was getting confident in my process/ability.
Ill be researching proper annealing today because i need to make this mule deer hunt happen with 9 peices of brass. That includes load development and sight in. Leaving on the 20th.

 

[Kadams1563]

Researching proper annealing means go buy an AMP lol

I did the flame annealer route. I got tired of guessing. Sitting in the dark trying to get the right amount of time to only have your bottle run low or your regulator to act up. Screw all of that. AMP with Aztec and never look back.

 

[Tokay444]

There are more threads on guys’ loads going to shit with the AMP than any other annealing method.
Manage recoil better and the box won’t smash your bullet tips.

 

[Kadams1563]

There are more threads on guys’ loads going to shit with the AMP than any other annealing method.
Manage recoil better and the box won’t smash your bullet tips.

have literally seen none of what your talking about...

 

[Tokay444]

LOL!!
Do you want me to get links to threads JUST on this site alone, or do you think you can handle it on your own?

 

[Tokay444]

I’ll get you started...
Let me get that for you.

 

[Tokay444]

Another one!

 

[nnnn16]

It was the ogive length changes that bothered me. Not a smudged tip.

As far as managing recoil goes....
I purposely held the rifle loosely during the testing. I understand recoil management and follow through etc.... My goal is a dependable load that will not change weather im taking standing rushed shot quick draw shots or careful prone shots where the fundamentals fall automatically in to place......whatever. To me, a hunting load should handle whatever without changing in the magazine even if i hand my rifle to an unfamiliar hunter because i know his rifle isn't enough. The 2fps sd - tiny 100yd groups - full control of all variables reload isnt what i was looking for. I had that.

Thank You for the help SH.
I never knew i could over anneal or wear out a case neck so quickly. I asked and SH /(boxerglocker) answered. Problem solved.

This is a great site

Nathan

 

[Boxerglocker]

Possibly. I used an annealeaz. Its not an exact art but the cases never got red hot or anything. Now that you bring it up they sized extremely precisely. Literally within half a thousandth of each other at the shoulder. It makes sense that they would size perfectly if they were to soft

Researching proper annealing means go buy an AMP lol

I did the flame annealer route. I got tired of guessing. Sitting in the dark trying to get the right amount of time to only have your bottle run low or your regulator to act up. Screw all of that. AMP with Aztec and never look back.

The temperature/time range for flame annealing is actually a lot more forgiving than most think. Why guessing? There are proven ways of performing flame annealing using Tempilaq. Why wouldn't you use a definitive marker to ensure the desired achieved temperature , that's just dumb.