Gunsmithing Objective research on Barrel Break-in procedures

[47guy]

" This is not to say that moly is necessarily bad for a barrel, but it can be when applied to bullets. Never shoot moly coated bullets as they are bad juju for the throat of a rifle "

Rubbish , those people don't want moly used because it makes the barrel last way longer .
I have been using it for 30 years and have one barrel on 7000 rounds and still shooting well .

what are you shooting that you have 7000 rounds through and is still shooting well?

 

[Precision Underground]

Tag for instructions on burnishing a new barrel.

 

[ThePretzel]

what are you shooting that you have 7000 rounds through and is still shooting well?

His imagination, mostly likely. That or .22LR.

 

[Country]

what are you shooting that you have 7000 rounds through and is still shooting well?

.223 .

 

[47guy]

.223 .

Ok

 

[LANCER]

All this thread has done is confuse me. I'm relatively new to bolt guns. I would like clarification on a couple of terms people are using:
1. Fouling: What do you mean when you say a barrel is fouled? I assume it means a barrel is dirty with carbon and to a lesser extent, copper. In my opinion, every single shot fired will foul a barrel.
2. Clean a barrel: What do you mean when you say you "clean the barrel"? When you clean a barrel are you cleaning carbon only, or down to bare metal including copper?

I'm about to receive a new SOTIC rifle in 6.5cm with a Chanlynn barrel. I want to ensure I treat this barrel right and get the most life out of it. I also cannot stand having anything dirty when I put it away so I intend to clean it every range session. (my range sessions are never less than 50 rounds, but usually 100-200 rds per outing) When I say "clean" I don't mean using copper solvent, I mean carbon-clean. I was fully intending to do a proper barrel break-in as per the manual, which is shoot 1 and clean for 10, shoot 5 and clean for 25, shoot 20 and clean until 100. I want to minimize copper fouling for the long-term, which is what I believe this break-in is supposed to do.
If I decide to follow the barrel manufacturer's instructions to break-in, should I clean for copper after every sequence?
I will not start load development until after 100. I don't shoot comps, and don't intend to.

I have a TIkka T3x CTR in .308 which I didn't follow break-in procedures, and that thing fouls like a motherfucker. There is nothing but copper streaking all down the barrel but more towards the front as expected when I borescope it. It shoots like crap if I don't clean it every 100 or 200 rds. It now has over 2500 rounds through it and at 1250 I did the entire JB bore compound/polish routine. Didn't help the fouling at all, but again, I probably should have done it during "break-in" The Tikka is now 1 year old, and will continue to use it more as a trainer rifle.

I have a possum hollow bore guide for the new rifle meant to fit it exactly (for TRG22), I use Montana Extreme rods (but also have Dewey) Bronze brushes, cotton patches, bore mops, nylon brushes, and even VFG pellets in the correct calibers.

Please give me some pointers on what I should do with this new rifle: Do the full break-in to minimize fouling, do a half-ass break-in with just 2 or 3 shots, clean and repeat once, or just start load development after the first shots? Can you recommend solvents to use for just carbon cleaning, and one for copper? (I use only Hoppe's 9 for carbon, and Butch's bore shine for copper. Also have some sweet's but never used it.) I also have the JB bore compound and Kroil but only used it once.

I know ppl will say to just shoot it and never clean it for 5000000 rounds, but I can't bring myself to store a dirty rifle. It's an OCD thing. I will clean after every range session observing proper regimen.
Thanks,

 

[47guy]

All this thread has done is confuse me. I'm relatively new to bolt guns. I would like clarification on a couple of terms people are using:
1. Fouling: What do you mean when you say a barrel is fouled? I assume it means a barrel is dirty with carbon and to a lesser extent, copper. In my opinion, every single shot fired will foul a barrel.
2. Clean a barrel: What do you mean when you say you "clean the barrel"? When you clean a barrel are you cleaning carbon only, or down to bare metal including copper?

I'm about to receive a new SOTIC rifle in 6.5cm with a Chanlynn barrel. I want to ensure I treat this barrel right and get the most life out of it. I also cannot stand having anything dirty when I put it away so I intend to clean it every range session. (my range sessions are never less than 50 rounds, but usually 100-200 rds per outing) When I say "clean" I don't mean using copper solvent, I mean carbon-clean. I was fully intending to do a proper barrel break-in as per the manual, which is shoot 1 and clean for 10, shoot 5 and clean for 25, shoot 20 and clean until 100. I want to minimize copper fouling for the long-term, which is what I believe this break-in is supposed to do.
If I decide to follow the barrel manufacturer's instructions to break-in, should I clean for copper after every sequence?
I will not start load development until after 100. I don't shoot comps, and don't intend to.

I have a TIkka T3x CTR in .308 which I didn't follow break-in procedures, and that thing fouls like a motherfucker. There is nothing but copper streaking all down the barrel but more towards the front as expected when I borescope it. It shoots like crap if I don't clean it every 100 or 200 rds. It now has over 2500 rounds through it and at 1250 I did the entire JB bore compound/polish routine. Didn't help the fouling at all, but again, I probably should have done it during "break-in" The Tikka is now 1 year old, and will continue to use it more as a trainer rifle.

I have a possum hollow bore guide for the new rifle meant to fit it exactly (for TRG22), I use Montana Extreme rods (but also have Dewey) Bronze brushes, cotton patches, bore mops, nylon brushes, and even VFG pellets in the correct calibers.

Please give me some pointers on what I should do with this new rifle: Do the full break-in to minimize fouling, do a half-ass break-in with just 2 or 3 shots, clean and repeat once, or just start load development after the first shots? Can you recommend solvents to use for just carbon cleaning, and one for copper? (I use only Hoppe's 9 for carbon, and Butch's bore shine for copper. Also have some sweet's but never used it.) I also have the JB bore compound and Kroil but only used it once.

I know ppl will say to just shoot it and never clean it for 5000000 rounds, but I can't bring myself to store a dirty rifle. It's an OCD thing. I will clean after every range session observing proper regimen.
Thanks,

 

[John Glidewell]

 

[rlsmith1]

So much info here, thank you for the efforts

 

[highfinblue]

After many email requests I thought I'd repost the research I did on barrel break-in procedures. In addition I also added a short overview on Internal Ballistics 101 to help tie everything together.

This has been posted on many shooting boards over the years and has been modified as I uncover more information. This is a quick synopsis of my finding which has been generalized. I had lots of test results and data I looked through. It’s also not based on the opinions and hearsay. I set out to take an objective look of barrel break-in procedures. I wanted to find out if there was any hard fact evidence to support barrel break-in procedures or was it a waste of time. In the end all of the data I collected supported the fact that barrel break-in procedures are a waist of time and in some cases damages barrels. To research this project I spoke with a few metallurgists, originally three of our top barrel makers (Shilen, Hart and Rock) and have since talked with a handful of others including Bartlein and Broughton. I also talked with a few internal ballistic engineers and some our nation’s best gunsmiths.

A little back ground on myself. I have degrees in Engineering and Business Adminstration. I’m a data network engineer in real life. I’m an avid long range shooter and due to my knees gave up tactical competitions about 6 years ago. One of my hobbies is external ballistics and I enjoy reverse engineering new ballistic programs to see what ballistic models, mathematical calculations, formulas and algorithms the creator used. I have a pretty good knowledge on ballistics and long range shooting. By no means am I an expert, when I'm in doubt I talk with Bryan Litz. I have spent more time than I care to admit to trying to uncover the science behind the scene. With regards to this write up, I feel I've done a fairly good job with my research and conclusions. Though some may disagree with my finding which is fine.

Before blasting away at what I've written, offer insight supported by facts and test data and not hearsay or opinions. This is what I’ve tried to do. It’s ok to disagree as the more information we can get the better informed we are. Also remember my conclusions were the collective data from some of the best minds and subject matter experts in the business.

Back in the 2001/2 time frame I trashed a brand new Shilen stainless steel match barrel in under 400 rounds shooting moly coated bullets. Yes this was during the moly bullet craze and I jumped on the band wagon. Let’s just say I was not a happy camper. I live local to Shilen so after a few hand lapping jobs on the barrel which failed, Doug Shilen cut the throat section to see what was really wrong. The throat area showed the black moly ring of death which was so hard Doug could barely scrape it with the side of a flat head screwdriver. Let’s just say I’ll never shoot another moly coated bullet....ever!

After my new Shilen barrel was installed I set out to on a mission to understand this barrel break-in process and if I really needed it. After all this research my conclusion supported the fact that barrel break-in is a waist of time and effort.

Let’s talk barrel break-in shall we: I believe Kelly McMillan of McMillan rifles said it best, “This barrel break-in processes keeps us in business”. “This shoot and clean, shoot and clean every round or few rounds break-in process only damages your new match barrel and/or significantly decreases the barrel life”. Though I didn’t speak with Kelly on this subject I’ve read what he’s written and it mirrors my own findings.

Some barrel manufactures have now re-clarified their stance saying that a barrel break-in procedures helps to smooth the transition from the newly cut chamber into the throat area of the bore. Now there is some merit to statement except for the fact a cotton patch with bore solvent or bronze brush isn’t going to do squat to help remove any rough areas. Bullets passing down the barrel will help smooth the chamber/throat area. It may take just a couple of shots or it could take a lot, but it depends on how well the chamber/throat was cut and polished. Last I checked stainless steel and chrome moly steel is much harder than a cotton patch or bronze brush.

Speedy Gonzalez (Hall of fame bench rest shooter and one of the nation’s top gunsmiths) was a wealth of information as were the techs at Hart barrels. As Speedy says, “my $3000.00 video-bore scope doesn’t lie”. I've looked through lots of barrels at Speedy's shop while he was working here in North Texas. Looking through his bore scope I learned a lot and saw a lot of good the bad and the ugly when it comes to barrel and barrel maintenance. Speedy's video bore scope never lied. When looking through his video bore scope at the internal surfaces of trashed barrels, one thing we did see a lot of were cleaning rod marks. The cleaning rod marks showed too much cleaning with poor and improper cleaning techniques and equipment. This was also noted by the techs at Hart Barrels with regards to barrels they replaced.

There are probably less than a dozen individuals in the US that understand internal and external ballistic as well as Stan Rivenbark and Mike Rock. Stan is retired ballistic engineer from Raytheon Corporation and Mike Rock of Rock Creek Barrels. They both understood this whole internal ballistic equation more than all the others I talked with. This is because they worked on internal ballistics in their real lives, used state of the art test equipment to perform actual tests and record the actual data. They are true subject matter experts and both of their views points and explanations were very similar. A slight twist here and there and different approach but there test data and conclusion were the same. A lot of folks claim to understand all or part of the internal ballistic equation, but these people had the hard data to back up there statements and claims. I like solid test data and not opinions on what someone believes.

As I stated Stan and Mike Rock gave me some of the most detailed explanations on barrels and internal ballistics. Both were ballistic engineers and both have degrees in metallurgy (Stan has an masters in metallurgy); Mike was a ballistics engineer for the US Army for many years at the Aberdeen Proving grounds. When Mike worked at Aberdeen, the US Army used high speed bore videos with mirrors, thermal imaging and computers to analyze any and everything that happens when the firing pin strikes the primer and the round goes off. While working as a ballistic engineer for Raytheon Stan used similar equipment and processes to view and record internal ballistics though most of his work was focued around the .50 cal.

Before we begin take a step back and be objective. Ask yourself what you are trying to really accomplish by breaking in your barrel. What issues and/or problems inside the barrel need to be corrected or fixed? Now I do recommend cleaning your rifle after you purchase it to clean out all of the junk, oils and grease from the factory before shooting it, but also realize...

• The vast majority (99%) of shooters don’t own or have access to a quality bore scope to view the interior surface of their barrels.
• Without a bore scope to view the interior surface of your barrel what exactly are you trying to fix by a shoot and clean process?
• If there are burrs or machine marks from the machining process are they in the chamber, throat or barrel where are they located?
• Do the machine marks run parallel or perpendicular to the barrel finish?
• If there are high points and low points inside the barrel again where are they located?
• Does shooting and cleaning between rounds correct/fix all barrel imperfections if they exist? If yes how?
• Do you think cleaning between rounds is going to change the molecular structure of the steel or condition it in some fashion? If so, I’m/we’re all ears
• Without a bore scope again you have no idea what the actual condition of the interior barrel surface
• So far if you don’t have honest solid answers to these first few questions and you’ve been performing a barrel break-in process you’re working off a SWAG (scientific wild *** guess)
• Even if you have a bore scope can you truly identify a change in burrs or machine marks from a before or after cleaning. If so please provide detailed photograph’s

Couple more questions while I still have your attention.

• Pushing a cotton patch with solvent or a bronze brush down the barrel will do what to remove a 416 stainless steel or chromemoly metal burr or machine marks?
• Last time I checked, 416 SS or CM is much harder than a cotton patch or bronze brush and is most likely impenetrable by most bore solvents.
• Yes it will remove copper fouling caught by the metal burr, but how will it remove the metal burr?
• How many shots will it take to remove the burr or imperfection and how will you know when the barrel issues have been corrected? Is it always x-amount of shots?

Let's take a few minutes to gain a basic understanding of internal ballistics and what really happens when you pull the trigger. This will also help you to understand why you don't want to clean after every shot.

High level view of Internal Ballistics 101:

When the firing pin strikes the primer, the propellants in the primer ignites. With this initial ignition there may or may not be enough pressure to dislodge the bullet from the case (this depends on neck tension and seating depth as well as a few other variables), if there is enough pressure to dislodge the bullet, it moves forward into the lands where it stops. As the primer ignites the powder, more pressure builds moving the bullet forward where it can stop again. Once there is enough pressure from the round going off, the bullet is moved down and out the barrel. All of this happens in nanoseconds (billionths of a second). Your bullet starts and stops as many as two times before it leaves the barrel. This is fact. Bet you didn’t know that…….neither did I!

Internal Ballistics on the brass case:

As the primer ignites the powder, pressure begins to fill the brass case. As the pressure builds the case expands to completely fill the chamber sealing off the chamber and preventing any gases from leaking around it. The pressure will also cause the brass case to move rearward pushing it flush against the bolt face. In addition the shoulder and neck area of the case will be force forward into the shoulder and neck area of the chamber. All of this pressure will have elongated and lengthen the total size and diameter of the brass case. As the bullet is moved down and out the barrel, the chamber and barrel pressure drops. The brass begins to cool and contract allowing the brass to be extracted from the chamber.

Internal Ballistics on the bullet:

As the bullet is forced from the case, it can only support a small amount of force. The force on the base of the bullet will cause it to expand. As more force is applied the bullet expansion will increase from the base of the bullet towards the bullet nose. Basically the bullet begins to stretch. In addition the bullet enters the lands and grooves of the barrel. The bullet will engrave itself to the lands and grooves as it proceeds through the barrel. The throat of the barrel takes on the majority of stress from the heat and pressure created from the firing of the round. This is why the throat area of the barrel is always the first point of barrel deterioration. Depending on the round being fired the flash point of the round going off can cause instantaneous burst in temperature upwards to 4000 degrees Fahrenheit and create a pressure spike upwards toward 60,000 PSI’s.

Why thorough cleaning between rounds is not good for a barrel:

Think of a car engine for a moment. Why do we use oil in the engine? To prevent any metal-to-metal contact as well as reduce friction between two metal (bearing) surfaces. Your barrel is no different from the engine. If you clean every round or every few rounds during your barrel break-in process or clean your rifle so well after shooting that you take it down to the bare metal, you’ve created a metal-to-metal contact surface for the next time you shoot the gun. So what’s the problem with this you ask? Just like your car engine, metal-to-metal contact will cause friction which can sheer away layers of metal from each surface. So if your bullet is starting and stopping as many as two times before it leaves the barrel, that’s two places for metal-to-metal contact to happen as well as the rest of your bore. Even though copper is a gilding metal it can still sheer away barrel surface in the bore when traveling at high velocities under extreme heat and pressures.

Remember it is these copper jacketed bullets passing down the barrel at high pressure and velocity that will ultimantly be the source of smoothing out those rough marks left by the chambering tool and machining process. The more bullets passing down the barrel will help smooth the barrel not cleaning it between rounds.

Cleaning between rounds especially thorough cleanings can take you back down to bare metal which can actually harm your barrel. In addition all this cleaning, done improperly with cheap bore guides and cleaning rods can scratch and damage the interior surface of your barrel. This was very prevalent in the barrels we looked at through Speed’s video bore scope. To preserve your barrel you need to avoid cleaning down to bare metal. A light wash of copper fouling in the barrel is not always a bad thing, as the copper fills in a lot of the micro groves left by the machining process. You don’t want layers of copper which effect accuracy, but filling in the micro grooves can be a good thing.

So what do we need to really take care of our new rifle and/or barrel?

According to Mike Rock and the other barrel manufactures agreed, all you need to avoid this metal-to-metal contact is a good burnish in the barrel. Some barrel manufactures will void your barrel warranty if you shoot moly bullets. This is not to say that moly is necessarily bad for a barrel, but it can be when applied to bullets. Never shoot moly coated bullets as they are bad juju for the throat of a rifle.

There are numerous ways to achieve a good burnish in your barrel such as just shooting a long string of rounds without cleaning. I like Mike Rock’s method and have been using it on all my match grade and factory barrels.

When Mike re-barreled my tactical rifle with one of his 5R barrels, I talked with him about my new barrel, any barrel break-in process and how to get the best performance out of my new barrel. This is what he had to say. When he makes a new barrel, he hand laps the barrels with a lead lap. Most if not all custom barrel makers hand lap their barrels. Mike takes his barrels a step further to provide a pre-burnished finish. He uses two products from Sentry Solutions. One product is called Smooth Coat, which is an alcohol and moly based product. He applies wet patches of Smooth Coat until the bore is good and saturated and lets it sit until the alcohol evaporates. The barrel now has loose moly in it. Next he uses a second product for Sentry Solutions product called BP-2000, which is a very fine moly powder. Applied to a patch wrapped around a bore brush, he makes a hundred passes through the barrel very rapidly before having to rest. He repeats this process with fresh patches containing the moly powder a few more times. What he is doing is burnishing the barrel surface with moly and filling in any fine micro lines left by the hand lapping. He then uses a couple of clean patches to knock out any remaining moly left in the bore. He also included a bottle of each product when he shipped my rifle back which is what I’ve been using on all my other rifles.

With the barrel burnished with moly, this will prevent any metal-to-metal contact during the barrel break in process. My instructions for barrel break-in were quite simple. Shoot 20 rounds (non-moly bullets) with no cleaning, as this will further burnish the barrel. Done! Now shoot and clean using your regular regiment of cleaning and if you have to use JB’s or flitz type products, go very easy with them as they can clean the interior barrel surface back down to bare metal removing your burnish. Never clean so well you clean back down to bare metal surface.

He said most of the cleaning products do a great job, don’t be afraid to use a brush and go easy on the ammonia-based products for removing copper fouling. Basically don’t let the ammonia-based products remain in the barrel for long lengths of time.

What’s my cleaning regiment you might ask? I’m not one who puts his firearms up without cleaning them; it’s what I was taught growing up. I'm also not one who wants to spend a lot of time and effort cleaning so my process is pretty simple but highly effective. I use only a Lucas bore guide and Dewey cleaning rods, something I learned from Speedy. Most other bore guides will allow your cleaning rod to flex inside the barrel which can scratch the barrel surface...not a Lucas bore guide.

I clean my rifles using WipeOut Accelerator and WipeOut foam. I use a few patches soaked in WipeOut Accelerator just to push the bulk of the gunk out of the barrel and then give it a shot of Wipeout foam. Let sit for 3-hours or so and patch it out. If I know it will be a few weeks before I get to the range or lease I’ll run a single patch of kroil oil down the barrel followed by a couple of dry patches. The process is quick and simple and works well for me. I have one barrel on my sons Win Featherweight where we need use a nylon brush with a little JB’s to get most of the fouling out as it’s a stubborn factory barrel. I’m considering using Tubbs Final Finish on this barrel.

For badly fouling factory rifles, I know of quite a few folks who have used Tubbs Final Finish with very good to outstanding results. TFF are lapping compound impregnated bullets you shoot down your barrel which can really help smooth out and polish a factory barrel.

I’ve used my buddies bore scope quite a few times to see just how clean my process gets my rifles. My Bartlein and Rock barrels hardly ever foul so I rarely if ever see any copper fouling in those barrels. My DPMS and Tikka both show very light and faint traces of fouling here and there after cleaning. I figure that fouling is just filling in some of those micro grooves as well as I know I have a good burnish in the barrel and I don’t give it a second thought as they all shoot lights out!

I hope that helps folks to understand what I’m trying to say.

fantastic, the best shooter I have I broke in with some stupid procedure, but gave that stuff up years ago because it's a royal pain. still have great shooting rifles that all I did was shoot them including the little 6.5 creedmoor I just bought that is cutting ragged little holes and all I did was remove the oil from manufacturing and started shooting it

 

[47guy]

fantastic, the best shooter I have I broke in with some stupid procedure, but gave that stuff up years ago because it's a royal pain. still have great shooting rifles that all I did was shoot them including the little 6.5 creedmoor I just bought that is cutting ragged little holes and all I did was remove the oil from manufacturing and started shooting it

thats because its a wonder creed....the wonder creed dont even need a driver you just throw it down on the line and come back in 2hrs to collect your first place trophy!

 

[epoletna]

After many email requests I thought I'd repost the research I did on barrel break-in procedures. In addition I also added a short overview on Internal Ballistics 101 to help tie everything together.

This has been posted on many shooting boards over the years and has been modified as I uncover more information. This is a quick synopsis of my finding which has been generalized. I had lots of test results and data I looked through. It’s also not based on the opinions and hearsay. I set out to take an objective look of barrel break-in procedures. I wanted to find out if there was any hard fact evidence to support barrel break-in procedures or was it a waste of time. In the end all of the data I collected supported the fact that barrel break-in procedures are a waist of time and in some cases damages barrels. To research this project I spoke with a few metallurgists, originally three of our top barrel makers (Shilen, Hart and Rock) and have since talked with a handful of others including Bartlein and Broughton. I also talked with a few internal ballistic engineers and some our nation’s best gunsmiths.

A little back ground on myself. I have degrees in Engineering and Business Adminstration. I’m a data network engineer in real life. I’m an avid long range shooter and due to my knees gave up tactical competitions about 6 years ago. One of my hobbies is external ballistics and I enjoy reverse engineering new ballistic programs to see what ballistic models, mathematical calculations, formulas and algorithms the creator used. I have a pretty good knowledge on ballistics and long range shooting. By no means am I an expert, when I'm in doubt I talk with Bryan Litz. I have spent more time than I care to admit to trying to uncover the science behind the scene. With regards to this write up, I feel I've done a fairly good job with my research and conclusions. Though some may disagree with my finding which is fine.

Before blasting away at what I've written, offer insight supported by facts and test data and not hearsay or opinions. This is what I’ve tried to do. It’s ok to disagree as the more information we can get the better informed we are. Also remember my conclusions were the collective data from some of the best minds and subject matter experts in the business.

Back in the 2001/2 time frame I trashed a brand new Shilen stainless steel match barrel in under 400 rounds shooting moly coated bullets. Yes this was during the moly bullet craze and I jumped on the band wagon. Let’s just say I was not a happy camper. I live local to Shilen so after a few hand lapping jobs on the barrel which failed, Doug Shilen cut the throat section to see what was really wrong. The throat area showed the black moly ring of death which was so hard Doug could barely scrape it with the side of a flat head screwdriver. Let’s just say I’ll never shoot another moly coated bullet....ever!

After my new Shilen barrel was installed I set out to on a mission to understand this barrel break-in process and if I really needed it. After all this research my conclusion supported the fact that barrel break-in is a waist of time and effort.

Let’s talk barrel break-in shall we: I believe Kelly McMillan of McMillan rifles said it best, “This barrel break-in processes keeps us in business”. “This shoot and clean, shoot and clean every round or few rounds break-in process only damages your new match barrel and/or significantly decreases the barrel life”. Though I didn’t speak with Kelly on this subject I’ve read what he’s written and it mirrors my own findings.

Some barrel manufactures have now re-clarified their stance saying that a barrel break-in procedures helps to smooth the transition from the newly cut chamber into the throat area of the bore. Now there is some merit to statement except for the fact a cotton patch with bore solvent or bronze brush isn’t going to do squat to help remove any rough areas. Bullets passing down the barrel will help smooth the chamber/throat area. It may take just a couple of shots or it could take a lot, but it depends on how well the chamber/throat was cut and polished. Last I checked stainless steel and chrome moly steel is much harder than a cotton patch or bronze brush.

Speedy Gonzalez (Hall of fame bench rest shooter and one of the nation’s top gunsmiths) was a wealth of information as were the techs at Hart barrels. As Speedy says, “my $3000.00 video-bore scope doesn’t lie”. I've looked through lots of barrels at Speedy's shop while he was working here in North Texas. Looking through his bore scope I learned a lot and saw a lot of good the bad and the ugly when it comes to barrel and barrel maintenance. Speedy's video bore scope never lied. When looking through his video bore scope at the internal surfaces of trashed barrels, one thing we did see a lot of were cleaning rod marks. The cleaning rod marks showed too much cleaning with poor and improper cleaning techniques and equipment. This was also noted by the techs at Hart Barrels with regards to barrels they replaced.

There are probably less than a dozen individuals in the US that understand internal and external ballistic as well as Stan Rivenbark and Mike Rock. Stan is retired ballistic engineer from Raytheon Corporation and Mike Rock of Rock Creek Barrels. They both understood this whole internal ballistic equation more than all the others I talked with. This is because they worked on internal ballistics in their real lives, used state of the art test equipment to perform actual tests and record the actual data. They are true subject matter experts and both of their views points and explanations were very similar. A slight twist here and there and different approach but there test data and conclusion were the same. A lot of folks claim to understand all or part of the internal ballistic equation, but these people had the hard data to back up there statements and claims. I like solid test data and not opinions on what someone believes.

As I stated Stan and Mike Rock gave me some of the most detailed explanations on barrels and internal ballistics. Both were ballistic engineers and both have degrees in metallurgy (Stan has an masters in metallurgy); Mike was a ballistics engineer for the US Army for many years at the Aberdeen Proving grounds. When Mike worked at Aberdeen, the US Army used high speed bore videos with mirrors, thermal imaging and computers to analyze any and everything that happens when the firing pin strikes the primer and the round goes off. While working as a ballistic engineer for Raytheon Stan used similar equipment and processes to view and record internal ballistics though most of his work was focued around the .50 cal.

Before we begin take a step back and be objective. Ask yourself what you are trying to really accomplish by breaking in your barrel. What issues and/or problems inside the barrel need to be corrected or fixed? Now I do recommend cleaning your rifle after you purchase it to clean out all of the junk, oils and grease from the factory before shooting it, but also realize...

• The vast majority (99%) of shooters don’t own or have access to a quality bore scope to view the interior surface of their barrels.
• Without a bore scope to view the interior surface of your barrel what exactly are you trying to fix by a shoot and clean process?
• If there are burrs or machine marks from the machining process are they in the chamber, throat or barrel where are they located?
• Do the machine marks run parallel or perpendicular to the barrel finish?
• If there are high points and low points inside the barrel again where are they located?
• Does shooting and cleaning between rounds correct/fix all barrel imperfections if they exist? If yes how?
• Do you think cleaning between rounds is going to change the molecular structure of the steel or condition it in some fashion? If so, I’m/we’re all ears
• Without a bore scope again you have no idea what the actual condition of the interior barrel surface
• So far if you don’t have honest solid answers to these first few questions and you’ve been performing a barrel break-in process you’re working off a SWAG (scientific wild *** guess)
• Even if you have a bore scope can you truly identify a change in burrs or machine marks from a before or after cleaning. If so please provide detailed photograph’s

Couple more questions while I still have your attention.

• Pushing a cotton patch with solvent or a bronze brush down the barrel will do what to remove a 416 stainless steel or chromemoly metal burr or machine marks?
• Last time I checked, 416 SS or CM is much harder than a cotton patch or bronze brush and is most likely impenetrable by most bore solvents.
• Yes it will remove copper fouling caught by the metal burr, but how will it remove the metal burr?
• How many shots will it take to remove the burr or imperfection and how will you know when the barrel issues have been corrected? Is it always x-amount of shots?

Let's take a few minutes to gain a basic understanding of internal ballistics and what really happens when you pull the trigger. This will also help you to understand why you don't want to clean after every shot.

High level view of Internal Ballistics 101:

When the firing pin strikes the primer, the propellants in the primer ignites. With this initial ignition there may or may not be enough pressure to dislodge the bullet from the case (this depends on neck tension and seating depth as well as a few other variables), if there is enough pressure to dislodge the bullet, it moves forward into the lands where it stops. As the primer ignites the powder, more pressure builds moving the bullet forward where it can stop again. Once there is enough pressure from the round going off, the bullet is moved down and out the barrel. All of this happens in nanoseconds (billionths of a second). Your bullet starts and stops as many as two times before it leaves the barrel. This is fact. Bet you didn’t know that…….neither did I!

Internal Ballistics on the brass case:

As the primer ignites the powder, pressure begins to fill the brass case. As the pressure builds the case expands to completely fill the chamber sealing off the chamber and preventing any gases from leaking around it. The pressure will also cause the brass case to move rearward pushing it flush against the bolt face. In addition the shoulder and neck area of the case will be force forward into the shoulder and neck area of the chamber. All of this pressure will have elongated and lengthen the total size and diameter of the brass case. As the bullet is moved down and out the barrel, the chamber and barrel pressure drops. The brass begins to cool and contract allowing the brass to be extracted from the chamber.

Internal Ballistics on the bullet:

As the bullet is forced from the case, it can only support a small amount of force. The force on the base of the bullet will cause it to expand. As more force is applied the bullet expansion will increase from the base of the bullet towards the bullet nose. Basically the bullet begins to stretch. In addition the bullet enters the lands and grooves of the barrel. The bullet will engrave itself to the lands and grooves as it proceeds through the barrel. The throat of the barrel takes on the majority of stress from the heat and pressure created from the firing of the round. This is why the throat area of the barrel is always the first point of barrel deterioration. Depending on the round being fired the flash point of the round going off can cause instantaneous burst in temperature upwards to 4000 degrees Fahrenheit and create a pressure spike upwards toward 60,000 PSI’s.

Why thorough cleaning between rounds is not good for a barrel:

Think of a car engine for a moment. Why do we use oil in the engine? To prevent any metal-to-metal contact as well as reduce friction between two metal (bearing) surfaces. Your barrel is no different from the engine. If you clean every round or every few rounds during your barrel break-in process or clean your rifle so well after shooting that you take it down to the bare metal, you’ve created a metal-to-metal contact surface for the next time you shoot the gun. So what’s the problem with this you ask? Just like your car engine, metal-to-metal contact will cause friction which can sheer away layers of metal from each surface. So if your bullet is starting and stopping as many as two times before it leaves the barrel, that’s two places for metal-to-metal contact to happen as well as the rest of your bore. Even though copper is a gilding metal it can still sheer away barrel surface in the bore when traveling at high velocities under extreme heat and pressures.

Remember it is these copper jacketed bullets passing down the barrel at high pressure and velocity that will ultimantly be the source of smoothing out those rough marks left by the chambering tool and machining process. The more bullets passing down the barrel will help smooth the barrel not cleaning it between rounds.

Cleaning between rounds especially thorough cleanings can take you back down to bare metal which can actually harm your barrel. In addition all this cleaning, done improperly with cheap bore guides and cleaning rods can scratch and damage the interior surface of your barrel. This was very prevalent in the barrels we looked at through Speed’s video bore scope. To preserve your barrel you need to avoid cleaning down to bare metal. A light wash of copper fouling in the barrel is not always a bad thing, as the copper fills in a lot of the micro groves left by the machining process. You don’t want layers of copper which effect accuracy, but filling in the micro grooves can be a good thing.

So what do we need to really take care of our new rifle and/or barrel?

According to Mike Rock and the other barrel manufactures agreed, all you need to avoid this metal-to-metal contact is a good burnish in the barrel. Some barrel manufactures will void your barrel warranty if you shoot moly bullets. This is not to say that moly is necessarily bad for a barrel, but it can be when applied to bullets. Never shoot moly coated bullets as they are bad juju for the throat of a rifle.

There are numerous ways to achieve a good burnish in your barrel such as just shooting a long string of rounds without cleaning. I like Mike Rock’s method and have been using it on all my match grade and factory barrels.

When Mike re-barreled my tactical rifle with one of his 5R barrels, I talked with him about my new barrel, any barrel break-in process and how to get the best performance out of my new barrel. This is what he had to say. When he makes a new barrel, he hand laps the barrels with a lead lap. Most if not all custom barrel makers hand lap their barrels. Mike takes his barrels a step further to provide a pre-burnished finish. He uses two products from Sentry Solutions. One product is called Smooth Coat, which is an alcohol and moly based product. He applies wet patches of Smooth Coat until the bore is good and saturated and lets it sit until the alcohol evaporates. The barrel now has loose moly in it. Next he uses a second product for Sentry Solutions product called BP-2000, which is a very fine moly powder. Applied to a patch wrapped around a bore brush, he makes a hundred passes through the barrel very rapidly before having to rest. He repeats this process with fresh patches containing the moly powder a few more times. What he is doing is burnishing the barrel surface with moly and filling in any fine micro lines left by the hand lapping. He then uses a couple of clean patches to knock out any remaining moly left in the bore. He also included a bottle of each product when he shipped my rifle back which is what I’ve been using on all my other rifles.

With the barrel burnished with moly, this will prevent any metal-to-metal contact during the barrel break in process. My instructions for barrel break-in were quite simple. Shoot 20 rounds (non-moly bullets) with no cleaning, as this will further burnish the barrel. Done! Now shoot and clean using your regular regiment of cleaning and if you have to use JB’s or flitz type products, go very easy with them as they can clean the interior barrel surface back down to bare metal removing your burnish. Never clean so well you clean back down to bare metal surface.

He said most of the cleaning products do a great job, don’t be afraid to use a brush and go easy on the ammonia-based products for removing copper fouling. Basically don’t let the ammonia-based products remain in the barrel for long lengths of time.

What’s my cleaning regiment you might ask? I’m not one who puts his firearms up without cleaning them; it’s what I was taught growing up. I'm also not one who wants to spend a lot of time and effort cleaning so my process is pretty simple but highly effective. I use only a Lucas bore guide and Dewey cleaning rods, something I learned from Speedy. Most other bore guides will allow your cleaning rod to flex inside the barrel which can scratch the barrel surface...not a Lucas bore guide.

I clean my rifles using WipeOut Accelerator and WipeOut foam. I use a few patches soaked in WipeOut Accelerator just to push the bulk of the gunk out of the barrel and then give it a shot of Wipeout foam. Let sit for 3-hours or so and patch it out. If I know it will be a few weeks before I get to the range or lease I’ll run a single patch of kroil oil down the barrel followed by a couple of dry patches. The process is quick and simple and works well for me. I have one barrel on my sons Win Featherweight where we need use a nylon brush with a little JB’s to get most of the fouling out as it’s a stubborn factory barrel. I’m considering using Tubbs Final Finish on this barrel.

For badly fouling factory rifles, I know of quite a few folks who have used Tubbs Final Finish with very good to outstanding results. TFF are lapping compound impregnated bullets you shoot down your barrel which can really help smooth out and polish a factory barrel.

I’ve used my buddies bore scope quite a few times to see just how clean my process gets my rifles. My Bartlein and Rock barrels hardly ever foul so I rarely if ever see any copper fouling in those barrels. My DPMS and Tikka both show very light and faint traces of fouling here and there after cleaning. I figure that fouling is just filling in some of those micro grooves as well as I know I have a good burnish in the barrel and I don’t give it a second thought as they all shoot lights out!

I hope that helps folks to understand what I’m trying to say.

Lots of good stuff here. Too much to absorb in one reading. But I do have one quick question: given your unhappiness with moly coated bullets, how do you feel about HBN coating?

 

[Nathan Gravitt]

After many email requests I thought I'd repost the research I did on barrel break-in procedures. In addition I also added a short overview on Internal Ballistics 101 to help tie everything together.

This has been posted on many shooting boards over the years and has been modified as I uncover more information. This is a quick synopsis of my finding which has been generalized. I had lots of test results and data I looked through. It’s also not based on the opinions and hearsay. I set out to take an objective look of barrel break-in procedures. I wanted to find out if there was any hard fact evidence to support barrel break-in procedures or was it a waste of time. In the end all of the data I collected supported the fact that barrel break-in procedures are a waist of time and in some cases damages barrels. To research this project I spoke with a few metallurgists, originally three of our top barrel makers (Shilen, Hart and Rock) and have since talked with a handful of others including Bartlein and Broughton. I also talked with a few internal ballistic engineers and some our nation’s best gunsmiths.

A little back ground on myself. I have degrees in Engineering and Business Adminstration. I’m a data network engineer in real life. I’m an avid long range shooter and due to my knees gave up tactical competitions about 6 years ago. One of my hobbies is external ballistics and I enjoy reverse engineering new ballistic programs to see what ballistic models, mathematical calculations, formulas and algorithms the creator used. I have a pretty good knowledge on ballistics and long range shooting. By no means am I an expert, when I'm in doubt I talk with Bryan Litz. I have spent more time than I care to admit to trying to uncover the science behind the scene. With regards to this write up, I feel I've done a fairly good job with my research and conclusions. Though some may disagree with my finding which is fine.

Before blasting away at what I've written, offer insight supported by facts and test data and not hearsay or opinions. This is what I’ve tried to do. It’s ok to disagree as the more information we can get the better informed we are. Also remember my conclusions were the collective data from some of the best minds and subject matter experts in the business.

Back in the 2001/2 time frame I trashed a brand new Shilen stainless steel match barrel in under 400 rounds shooting moly coated bullets. Yes this was during the moly bullet craze and I jumped on the band wagon. Let’s just say I was not a happy camper. I live local to Shilen so after a few hand lapping jobs on the barrel which failed, Doug Shilen cut the throat section to see what was really wrong. The throat area showed the black moly ring of death which was so hard Doug could barely scrape it with the side of a flat head screwdriver. Let’s just say I’ll never shoot another moly coated bullet....ever!

After my new Shilen barrel was installed I set out to on a mission to understand this barrel break-in process and if I really needed it. After all this research my conclusion supported the fact that barrel break-in is a waist of time and effort.

Let’s talk barrel break-in shall we: I believe Kelly McMillan of McMillan rifles said it best, “This barrel break-in processes keeps us in business”. “This shoot and clean, shoot and clean every round or few rounds break-in process only damages your new match barrel and/or significantly decreases the barrel life”. Though I didn’t speak with Kelly on this subject I’ve read what he’s written and it mirrors my own findings.

Some barrel manufactures have now re-clarified their stance saying that a barrel break-in procedures helps to smooth the transition from the newly cut chamber into the throat area of the bore. Now there is some merit to statement except for the fact a cotton patch with bore solvent or bronze brush isn’t going to do squat to help remove any rough areas. Bullets passing down the barrel will help smooth the chamber/throat area. It may take just a couple of shots or it could take a lot, but it depends on how well the chamber/throat was cut and polished. Last I checked stainless steel and chrome moly steel is much harder than a cotton patch or bronze brush.

Speedy Gonzalez (Hall of fame bench rest shooter and one of the nation’s top gunsmiths) was a wealth of information as were the techs at Hart barrels. As Speedy says, “my $3000.00 video-bore scope doesn’t lie”. I've looked through lots of barrels at Speedy's shop while he was working here in North Texas. Looking through his bore scope I learned a lot and saw a lot of good the bad and the ugly when it comes to barrel and barrel maintenance. Speedy's video bore scope never lied. When looking through his video bore scope at the internal surfaces of trashed barrels, one thing we did see a lot of were cleaning rod marks. The cleaning rod marks showed too much cleaning with poor and improper cleaning techniques and equipment. This was also noted by the techs at Hart Barrels with regards to barrels they replaced.

There are probably less than a dozen individuals in the US that understand internal and external ballistic as well as Stan Rivenbark and Mike Rock. Stan is retired ballistic engineer from Raytheon Corporation and Mike Rock of Rock Creek Barrels. They both understood this whole internal ballistic equation more than all the others I talked with. This is because they worked on internal ballistics in their real lives, used state of the art test equipment to perform actual tests and record the actual data. They are true subject matter experts and both of their views points and explanations were very similar. A slight twist here and there and different approach but there test data and conclusion were the same. A lot of folks claim to understand all or part of the internal ballistic equation, but these people had the hard data to back up there statements and claims. I like solid test data and not opinions on what someone believes.

As I stated Stan and Mike Rock gave me some of the most detailed explanations on barrels and internal ballistics. Both were ballistic engineers and both have degrees in metallurgy (Stan has an masters in metallurgy); Mike was a ballistics engineer for the US Army for many years at the Aberdeen Proving grounds. When Mike worked at Aberdeen, the US Army used high speed bore videos with mirrors, thermal imaging and computers to analyze any and everything that happens when the firing pin strikes the primer and the round goes off. While working as a ballistic engineer for Raytheon Stan used similar equipment and processes to view and record internal ballistics though most of his work was focued around the .50 cal.

Before we begin take a step back and be objective. Ask yourself what you are trying to really accomplish by breaking in your barrel. What issues and/or problems inside the barrel need to be corrected or fixed? Now I do recommend cleaning your rifle after you purchase it to clean out all of the junk, oils and grease from the factory before shooting it, but also realize...

• The vast majority (99%) of shooters don’t own or have access to a quality bore scope to view the interior surface of their barrels.
• Without a bore scope to view the interior surface of your barrel what exactly are you trying to fix by a shoot and clean process?
• If there are burrs or machine marks from the machining process are they in the chamber, throat or barrel where are they located?
• Do the machine marks run parallel or perpendicular to the barrel finish?
• If there are high points and low points inside the barrel again where are they located?
• Does shooting and cleaning between rounds correct/fix all barrel imperfections if they exist? If yes how?
• Do you think cleaning between rounds is going to change the molecular structure of the steel or condition it in some fashion? If so, I’m/we’re all ears
• Without a bore scope again you have no idea what the actual condition of the interior barrel surface
• So far if you don’t have honest solid answers to these first few questions and you’ve been performing a barrel break-in process you’re working off a SWAG (scientific wild *** guess)
• Even if you have a bore scope can you truly identify a change in burrs or machine marks from a before or after cleaning. If so please provide detailed photograph’s

Couple more questions while I still have your attention.

• Pushing a cotton patch with solvent or a bronze brush down the barrel will do what to remove a 416 stainless steel or chromemoly metal burr or machine marks?
• Last time I checked, 416 SS or CM is much harder than a cotton patch or bronze brush and is most likely impenetrable by most bore solvents.
• Yes it will remove copper fouling caught by the metal burr, but how will it remove the metal burr?
• How many shots will it take to remove the burr or imperfection and how will you know when the barrel issues have been corrected? Is it always x-amount of shots?

Let's take a few minutes to gain a basic understanding of internal ballistics and what really happens when you pull the trigger. This will also help you to understand why you don't want to clean after every shot.

High level view of Internal Ballistics 101:

When the firing pin strikes the primer, the propellants in the primer ignites. With this initial ignition there may or may not be enough pressure to dislodge the bullet from the case (this depends on neck tension and seating depth as well as a few other variables), if there is enough pressure to dislodge the bullet, it moves forward into the lands where it stops. As the primer ignites the powder, more pressure builds moving the bullet forward where it can stop again. Once there is enough pressure from the round going off, the bullet is moved down and out the barrel. All of this happens in nanoseconds (billionths of a second). Your bullet starts and stops as many as two times before it leaves the barrel. This is fact. Bet you didn’t know that…….neither did I!

Internal Ballistics on the brass case:

As the primer ignites the powder, pressure begins to fill the brass case. As the pressure builds the case expands to completely fill the chamber sealing off the chamber and preventing any gases from leaking around it. The pressure will also cause the brass case to move rearward pushing it flush against the bolt face. In addition the shoulder and neck area of the case will be force forward into the shoulder and neck area of the chamber. All of this pressure will have elongated and lengthen the total size and diameter of the brass case. As the bullet is moved down and out the barrel, the chamber and barrel pressure drops. The brass begins to cool and contract allowing the brass to be extracted from the chamber.

Internal Ballistics on the bullet:

As the bullet is forced from the case, it can only support a small amount of force. The force on the base of the bullet will cause it to expand. As more force is applied the bullet expansion will increase from the base of the bullet towards the bullet nose. Basically the bullet begins to stretch. In addition the bullet enters the lands and grooves of the barrel. The bullet will engrave itself to the lands and grooves as it proceeds through the barrel. The throat of the barrel takes on the majority of stress from the heat and pressure created from the firing of the round. This is why the throat area of the barrel is always the first point of barrel deterioration. Depending on the round being fired the flash point of the round going off can cause instantaneous burst in temperature upwards to 4000 degrees Fahrenheit and create a pressure spike upwards toward 60,000 PSI’s.

Why thorough cleaning between rounds is not good for a barrel:

Think of a car engine for a moment. Why do we use oil in the engine? To prevent any metal-to-metal contact as well as reduce friction between two metal (bearing) surfaces. Your barrel is no different from the engine. If you clean every round or every few rounds during your barrel break-in process or clean your rifle so well after shooting that you take it down to the bare metal, you’ve created a metal-to-metal contact surface for the next time you shoot the gun. So what’s the problem with this you ask? Just like your car engine, metal-to-metal contact will cause friction which can sheer away layers of metal from each surface. So if your bullet is starting and stopping as many as two times before it leaves the barrel, that’s two places for metal-to-metal contact to happen as well as the rest of your bore. Even though copper is a gilding metal it can still sheer away barrel surface in the bore when traveling at high velocities under extreme heat and pressures.

Remember it is these copper jacketed bullets passing down the barrel at high pressure and velocity that will ultimantly be the source of smoothing out those rough marks left by the chambering tool and machining process. The more bullets passing down the barrel will help smooth the barrel not cleaning it between rounds.

Cleaning between rounds especially thorough cleanings can take you back down to bare metal which can actually harm your barrel. In addition all this cleaning, done improperly with cheap bore guides and cleaning rods can scratch and damage the interior surface of your barrel. This was very prevalent in the barrels we looked at through Speed’s video bore scope. To preserve your barrel you need to avoid cleaning down to bare metal. A light wash of copper fouling in the barrel is not always a bad thing, as the copper fills in a lot of the micro groves left by the machining process. You don’t want layers of copper which effect accuracy, but filling in the micro grooves can be a good thing.

So what do we need to really take care of our new rifle and/or barrel?

According to Mike Rock and the other barrel manufactures agreed, all you need to avoid this metal-to-metal contact is a good burnish in the barrel. Some barrel manufactures will void your barrel warranty if you shoot moly bullets. This is not to say that moly is necessarily bad for a barrel, but it can be when applied to bullets. Never shoot moly coated bullets as they are bad juju for the throat of a rifle.

There are numerous ways to achieve a good burnish in your barrel such as just shooting a long string of rounds without cleaning. I like Mike Rock’s method and have been using it on all my match grade and factory barrels.

When Mike re-barreled my tactical rifle with one of his 5R barrels, I talked with him about my new barrel, any barrel break-in process and how to get the best performance out of my new barrel. This is what he had to say. When he makes a new barrel, he hand laps the barrels with a lead lap. Most if not all custom barrel makers hand lap their barrels. Mike takes his barrels a step further to provide a pre-burnished finish. He uses two products from Sentry Solutions. One product is called Smooth Coat, which is an alcohol and moly based product. He applies wet patches of Smooth Coat until the bore is good and saturated and lets it sit until the alcohol evaporates. The barrel now has loose moly in it. Next he uses a second product for Sentry Solutions product called BP-2000, which is a very fine moly powder. Applied to a patch wrapped around a bore brush, he makes a hundred passes through the barrel very rapidly before having to rest. He repeats this process with fresh patches containing the moly powder a few more times. What he is doing is burnishing the barrel surface with moly and filling in any fine micro lines left by the hand lapping. He then uses a couple of clean patches to knock out any remaining moly left in the bore. He also included a bottle of each product when he shipped my rifle back which is what I’ve been using on all my other rifles.

With the barrel burnished with moly, this will prevent any metal-to-metal contact during the barrel break in process. My instructions for barrel break-in were quite simple. Shoot 20 rounds (non-moly bullets) with no cleaning, as this will further burnish the barrel. Done! Now shoot and clean using your regular regiment of cleaning and if you have to use JB’s or flitz type products, go very easy with them as they can clean the interior barrel surface back down to bare metal removing your burnish. Never clean so well you clean back down to bare metal surface.

He said most of the cleaning products do a great job, don’t be afraid to use a brush and go easy on the ammonia-based products for removing copper fouling. Basically don’t let the ammonia-based products remain in the barrel for long lengths of time.

What’s my cleaning regiment you might ask? I’m not one who puts his firearms up without cleaning them; it’s what I was taught growing up. I'm also not one who wants to spend a lot of time and effort cleaning so my process is pretty simple but highly effective. I use only a Lucas bore guide and Dewey cleaning rods, something I learned from Speedy. Most other bore guides will allow your cleaning rod to flex inside the barrel which can scratch the barrel surface...not a Lucas bore guide.

I clean my rifles using WipeOut Accelerator and WipeOut foam. I use a few patches soaked in WipeOut Accelerator just to push the bulk of the gunk out of the barrel and then give it a shot of Wipeout foam. Let sit for 3-hours or so and patch it out. If I know it will be a few weeks before I get to the range or lease I’ll run a single patch of kroil oil down the barrel followed by a couple of dry patches. The process is quick and simple and works well for me. I have one barrel on my sons Win Featherweight where we need use a nylon brush with a little JB’s to get most of the fouling out as it’s a stubborn factory barrel. I’m considering using Tubbs Final Finish on this barrel.

For badly fouling factory rifles, I know of quite a few folks who have used Tubbs Final Finish with very good to outstanding results. TFF are lapping compound impregnated bullets you shoot down your barrel which can really help smooth out and polish a factory barrel.

I’ve used my buddies bore scope quite a few times to see just how clean my process gets my rifles. My Bartlein and Rock barrels hardly ever foul so I rarely if ever see any copper fouling in those barrels. My DPMS and Tikka both show very light and faint traces of fouling here and there after cleaning. I figure that fouling is just filling in some of those micro grooves as well as I know I have a good burnish in the barrel and I don’t give it a second thought as they all shoot lights out!

I hope that helps folks to understand what I’m trying to say.

Well written! Thanks for all of your research and data

 

[GandalfZ]

Great read. I am getting my first long rifle Tikka T3X CTR SS 6.5CR 20". Since it is a stock barrel and the information provided any suggestions what to do before I take it to the range and after as far as proper care and feeding of the barrel? Thanks in advance for any help for someone like me new to long range.

 

[Near miss]

Great read. I am getting my first long rifle Tikka T3X CTR SS 6.5CR 20". Since it is a stock barrel and the information provided any suggestions what to do before I take it to the range and after as far as proper care and feeding of the barrel? Thanks in advance for any help for someone like me new to long range.

Throughout cleaning to get factory grease out.
Shoot it.
Oil afterwards shooting if you have humid conditions.

 

[GandalfZ]

Throughout cleaning to get factory grease out.
Shoot it.
Oil afterwards shooting if you have humid conditions.

What oil do you recommend? Thanks again.

 

[Near miss]

What oil do you recommend? Thanks again.

Ballistol is good. Editable also.

I have also used even motor oils with success. Usually I can leave the barrel untreated but I always at least snake it clean, as I have understood carbon collects moisture.

Have thought about keeping 2 snakes, one always oiled well and other one for removing the oil.
See what fits you.

 

[Ssgt Devil dog]

I will have to agree with George Gardner on having a cut barrel vs button not that button is bad but, I actually had little to none copper during the burnishing on the Benchmark barrel that I installed on the new build 300 PRC.

 

[Raufoss]

I will have to agree with George Gardner on having a cut barrel vs button not that button is bad but, I actually had little to none copper during the burnishing on the Benchmark barrel that I installed on the new build 300 PRC.

Benchmark are button( and a tiny portion now cut )...that cut vs button thing is pure bullshit and non sense.

Runned both and never had copper issue when properly starting the barrel...

 

[Kingwoodsman]

Very informative
Thanks

 

[wth]

Can you folks tell me if this is still the proper procedure for barrel break-in? Great stuff!

Many thanks on the front end.

 

[wth]

Can you folks tell me if this is still the proper procedure for barrel break-in? Great stuff!

Many thanks on the front end.

crap - sorry, i didn't go to the very end of the thread. disregard.

 

[TheGerman]

Can you folks tell me if this is still the proper procedure for barrel break-in? Great stuff!

Many thanks on the front end.

 

[wth]

What I get for not reading to the end of the forum... I deserve that reply. Many thanks.

 

[acudaowner]

Whether it correct for anyone else , I was told to take my gun to the range and shoot it take it home and run a patch threw it and see what it told me and after 5000 rounds of 6.5 cm and still going strong , I am happy that it's still shooting really really well . Here's to how ever many more rounds it gives me . ps I totally am hopping mile high will return any of the 3 emails I've sent them in hopes of getting them to make me another barrel if they aren't too busy they really did a wonderful job on that first one , I could not thank them enough .

 

[Bambamoda]

After many email requests I thought I'd repost the research I did on barrel break-in procedures. In addition I also added a short overview on Internal Ballistics 101 to help tie everything together.

This has been posted on many shooting boards over the years and has been modified as I uncover more information. This is a quick synopsis of my finding which has been generalized. I had lots of test results and data I looked through. It’s also not based on the opinions and hearsay. I set out to take an objective look of barrel break-in procedures. I wanted to find out if there was any hard fact evidence to support barrel break-in procedures or was it a waste of time. In the end all of the data I collected supported the fact that barrel break-in procedures are a waist of time and in some cases damages barrels. To research this project I spoke with a few metallurgists, originally three of our top barrel makers (Shilen, Hart and Rock) and have since talked with a handful of others including Bartlein and Broughton. I also talked with a few internal ballistic engineers and some our nation’s best gunsmiths.

A little back ground on myself. I have degrees in Engineering and Business Adminstration. I’m a data network engineer in real life. I’m an avid long range shooter and due to my knees gave up tactical competitions about 6 years ago. One of my hobbies is external ballistics and I enjoy reverse engineering new ballistic programs to see what ballistic models, mathematical calculations, formulas and algorithms the creator used. I have a pretty good knowledge on ballistics and long range shooting. By no means am I an expert, when I'm in doubt I talk with Bryan Litz. I have spent more time than I care to admit to trying to uncover the science behind the scene. With regards to this write up, I feel I've done a fairly good job with my research and conclusions. Though some may disagree with my finding which is fine.

Before blasting away at what I've written, offer insight supported by facts and test data and not hearsay or opinions. This is what I’ve tried to do. It’s ok to disagree as the more information we can get the better informed we are. Also remember my conclusions were the collective data from some of the best minds and subject matter experts in the business.

Back in the 2001/2 time frame I trashed a brand new Shilen stainless steel match barrel in under 400 rounds shooting moly coated bullets. Yes this was during the moly bullet craze and I jumped on the band wagon. Let’s just say I was not a happy camper. I live local to Shilen so after a few hand lapping jobs on the barrel which failed, Doug Shilen cut the throat section to see what was really wrong. The throat area showed the black moly ring of death which was so hard Doug could barely scrape it with the side of a flat head screwdriver. Let’s just say I’ll never shoot another moly coated bullet....ever!

After my new Shilen barrel was installed I set out to on a mission to understand this barrel break-in process and if I really needed it. After all this research my conclusion supported the fact that barrel break-in is a waist of time and effort.

Let’s talk barrel break-in shall we: I believe Kelly McMillan of McMillan rifles said it best, “This barrel break-in processes keeps us in business”. “This shoot and clean, shoot and clean every round or few rounds break-in process only damages your new match barrel and/or significantly decreases the barrel life”. Though I didn’t speak with Kelly on this subject I’ve read what he’s written and it mirrors my own findings.

Some barrel manufactures have now re-clarified their stance saying that a barrel break-in procedures helps to smooth the transition from the newly cut chamber into the throat area of the bore. Now there is some merit to statement except for the fact a cotton patch with bore solvent or bronze brush isn’t going to do squat to help remove any rough areas. Bullets passing down the barrel will help smooth the chamber/throat area. It may take just a couple of shots or it could take a lot, but it depends on how well the chamber/throat was cut and polished. Last I checked stainless steel and chrome moly steel is much harder than a cotton patch or bronze brush.

Speedy Gonzalez (Hall of fame bench rest shooter and one of the nation’s top gunsmiths) was a wealth of information as were the techs at Hart barrels. As Speedy says, “my $3000.00 video-bore scope doesn’t lie”. I've looked through lots of barrels at Speedy's shop while he was working here in North Texas. Looking through his bore scope I learned a lot and saw a lot of good the bad and the ugly when it comes to barrel and barrel maintenance. Speedy's video bore scope never lied. When looking through his video bore scope at the internal surfaces of trashed barrels, one thing we did see a lot of were cleaning rod marks. The cleaning rod marks showed too much cleaning with poor and improper cleaning techniques and equipment. This was also noted by the techs at Hart Barrels with regards to barrels they replaced.

There are probably less than a dozen individuals in the US that understand internal and external ballistic as well as Stan Rivenbark and Mike Rock. Stan is retired ballistic engineer from Raytheon Corporation and Mike Rock of Rock Creek Barrels. They both understood this whole internal ballistic equation more than all the others I talked with. This is because they worked on internal ballistics in their real lives, used state of the art test equipment to perform actual tests and record the actual data. They are true subject matter experts and both of their views points and explanations were very similar. A slight twist here and there and different approach but there test data and conclusion were the same. A lot of folks claim to understand all or part of the internal ballistic equation, but these people had the hard data to back up there statements and claims. I like solid test data and not opinions on what someone believes.

As I stated Stan and Mike Rock gave me some of the most detailed explanations on barrels and internal ballistics. Both were ballistic engineers and both have degrees in metallurgy (Stan has an masters in metallurgy); Mike was a ballistics engineer for the US Army for many years at the Aberdeen Proving grounds. When Mike worked at Aberdeen, the US Army used high speed bore videos with mirrors, thermal imaging and computers to analyze any and everything that happens when the firing pin strikes the primer and the round goes off. While working as a ballistic engineer for Raytheon Stan used similar equipment and processes to view and record internal ballistics though most of his work was focued around the .50 cal.

Before we begin take a step back and be objective. Ask yourself what you are trying to really accomplish by breaking in your barrel. What issues and/or problems inside the barrel need to be corrected or fixed? Now I do recommend cleaning your rifle after you purchase it to clean out all of the junk, oils and grease from the factory before shooting it, but also realize...

• The vast majority (99%) of shooters don’t own or have access to a quality bore scope to view the interior surface of their barrels.
• Without a bore scope to view the interior surface of your barrel what exactly are you trying to fix by a shoot and clean process?
• If there are burrs or machine marks from the machining process are they in the chamber, throat or barrel where are they located?
• Do the machine marks run parallel or perpendicular to the barrel finish?
• If there are high points and low points inside the barrel again where are they located?
• Does shooting and cleaning between rounds correct/fix all barrel imperfections if they exist? If yes how?
• Do you think cleaning between rounds is going to change the molecular structure of the steel or condition it in some fashion? If so, I’m/we’re all ears
• Without a bore scope again you have no idea what the actual condition of the interior barrel surface
• So far if you don’t have honest solid answers to these first few questions and you’ve been performing a barrel break-in process you’re working off a SWAG (scientific wild *** guess)
• Even if you have a bore scope can you truly identify a change in burrs or machine marks from a before or after cleaning. If so please provide detailed photograph’s

Couple more questions while I still have your attention.

• Pushing a cotton patch with solvent or a bronze brush down the barrel will do what to remove a 416 stainless steel or chromemoly metal burr or machine marks?
• Last time I checked, 416 SS or CM is much harder than a cotton patch or bronze brush and is most likely impenetrable by most bore solvents.
• Yes it will remove copper fouling caught by the metal burr, but how will it remove the metal burr?
• How many shots will it take to remove the burr or imperfection and how will you know when the barrel issues have been corrected? Is it always x-amount of shots?

Let's take a few minutes to gain a basic understanding of internal ballistics and what really happens when you pull the trigger. This will also help you to understand why you don't want to clean after every shot.

High level view of Internal Ballistics 101:

When the firing pin strikes the primer, the propellants in the primer ignites. With this initial ignition there may or may not be enough pressure to dislodge the bullet from the case (this depends on neck tension and seating depth as well as a few other variables), if there is enough pressure to dislodge the bullet, it moves forward into the lands where it stops. As the primer ignites the powder, more pressure builds moving the bullet forward where it can stop again. Once there is enough pressure from the round going off, the bullet is moved down and out the barrel. All of this happens in nanoseconds (billionths of a second). Your bullet starts and stops as many as two times before it leaves the barrel. This is fact. Bet you didn’t know that…….neither did I!

Internal Ballistics on the brass case:

As the primer ignites the powder, pressure begins to fill the brass case. As the pressure builds the case expands to completely fill the chamber sealing off the chamber and preventing any gases from leaking around it. The pressure will also cause the brass case to move rearward pushing it flush against the bolt face. In addition the shoulder and neck area of the case will be force forward into the shoulder and neck area of the chamber. All of this pressure will have elongated and lengthen the total size and diameter of the brass case. As the bullet is moved down and out the barrel, the chamber and barrel pressure drops. The brass begins to cool and contract allowing the brass to be extracted from the chamber.

Internal Ballistics on the bullet:

As the bullet is forced from the case, it can only support a small amount of force. The force on the base of the bullet will cause it to expand. As more force is applied the bullet expansion will increase from the base of the bullet towards the bullet nose. Basically the bullet begins to stretch. In addition the bullet enters the lands and grooves of the barrel. The bullet will engrave itself to the lands and grooves as it proceeds through the barrel. The throat of the barrel takes on the majority of stress from the heat and pressure created from the firing of the round. This is why the throat area of the barrel is always the first point of barrel deterioration. Depending on the round being fired the flash point of the round going off can cause instantaneous burst in temperature upwards to 4000 degrees Fahrenheit and create a pressure spike upwards toward 60,000 PSI’s.

Why thorough cleaning between rounds is not good for a barrel:

Think of a car engine for a moment. Why do we use oil in the engine? To prevent any metal-to-metal contact as well as reduce friction between two metal (bearing) surfaces. Your barrel is no different from the engine. If you clean every round or every few rounds during your barrel break-in process or clean your rifle so well after shooting that you take it down to the bare metal, you’ve created a metal-to-metal contact surface for the next time you shoot the gun. So what’s the problem with this you ask? Just like your car engine, metal-to-metal contact will cause friction which can sheer away layers of metal from each surface. So if your bullet is starting and stopping as many as two times before it leaves the barrel, that’s two places for metal-to-metal contact to happen as well as the rest of your bore. Even though copper is a gilding metal it can still sheer away barrel surface in the bore when traveling at high velocities under extreme heat and pressures.

Remember it is these copper jacketed bullets passing down the barrel at high pressure and velocity that will ultimantly be the source of smoothing out those rough marks left by the chambering tool and machining process. The more bullets passing down the barrel will help smooth the barrel not cleaning it between rounds.

Cleaning between rounds especially thorough cleanings can take you back down to bare metal which can actually harm your barrel. In addition all this cleaning, done improperly with cheap bore guides and cleaning rods can scratch and damage the interior surface of your barrel. This was very prevalent in the barrels we looked at through Speed’s video bore scope. To preserve your barrel you need to avoid cleaning down to bare metal. A light wash of copper fouling in the barrel is not always a bad thing, as the copper fills in a lot of the micro groves left by the machining process. You don’t want layers of copper which effect accuracy, but filling in the micro grooves can be a good thing.

So what do we need to really take care of our new rifle and/or barrel?

According to Mike Rock and the other barrel manufactures agreed, all you need to avoid this metal-to-metal contact is a good burnish in the barrel. Some barrel manufactures will void your barrel warranty if you shoot moly bullets. This is not to say that moly is necessarily bad for a barrel, but it can be when applied to bullets. Never shoot moly coated bullets as they are bad juju for the throat of a rifle.

There are numerous ways to achieve a good burnish in your barrel such as just shooting a long string of rounds without cleaning. I like Mike Rock’s method and have been using it on all my match grade and factory barrels.

When Mike re-barreled my tactical rifle with one of his 5R barrels, I talked with him about my new barrel, any barrel break-in process and how to get the best performance out of my new barrel. This is what he had to say. When he makes a new barrel, he hand laps the barrels with a lead lap. Most if not all custom barrel makers hand lap their barrels. Mike takes his barrels a step further to provide a pre-burnished finish. He uses two products from Sentry Solutions. One product is called Smooth Coat, which is an alcohol and moly based product. He applies wet patches of Smooth Coat until the bore is good and saturated and lets it sit until the alcohol evaporates. The barrel now has loose moly in it. Next he uses a second product for Sentry Solutions product called BP-2000, which is a very fine moly powder. Applied to a patch wrapped around a bore brush, he makes a hundred passes through the barrel very rapidly before having to rest. He repeats this process with fresh patches containing the moly powder a few more times. What he is doing is burnishing the barrel surface with moly and filling in any fine micro lines left by the hand lapping. He then uses a couple of clean patches to knock out any remaining moly left in the bore. He also included a bottle of each product when he shipped my rifle back which is what I’ve been using on all my other rifles.

With the barrel burnished with moly, this will prevent any metal-to-metal contact during the barrel break in process. My instructions for barrel break-in were quite simple. Shoot 20 rounds (non-moly bullets) with no cleaning, as this will further burnish the barrel. Done! Now shoot and clean using your regular regiment of cleaning and if you have to use JB’s or flitz type products, go very easy with them as they can clean the interior barrel surface back down to bare metal removing your burnish. Never clean so well you clean back down to bare metal surface.

He said most of the cleaning products do a great job, don’t be afraid to use a brush and go easy on the ammonia-based products for removing copper fouling. Basically don’t let the ammonia-based products remain in the barrel for long lengths of time.

What’s my cleaning regiment you might ask? I’m not one who puts his firearms up without cleaning them; it’s what I was taught growing up. I'm also not one who wants to spend a lot of time and effort cleaning so my process is pretty simple but highly effective. I use only a Lucas bore guide and Dewey cleaning rods, something I learned from Speedy. Most other bore guides will allow your cleaning rod to flex inside the barrel which can scratch the barrel surface...not a Lucas bore guide.

I clean my rifles using WipeOut Accelerator and WipeOut foam. I use a few patches soaked in WipeOut Accelerator just to push the bulk of the gunk out of the barrel and then give it a shot of Wipeout foam. Let sit for 3-hours or so and patch it out. If I know it will be a few weeks before I get to the range or lease I’ll run a single patch of kroil oil down the barrel followed by a couple of dry patches. The process is quick and simple and works well for me. I have one barrel on my sons Win Featherweight where we need use a nylon brush with a little JB’s to get most of the fouling out as it’s a stubborn factory barrel. I’m considering using Tubbs Final Finish on this barrel.

For badly fouling factory rifles, I know of quite a few folks who have used Tubbs Final Finish with very good to outstanding results. TFF are lapping compound impregnated bullets you shoot down your barrel which can really help smooth out and polish a factory barrel.

I’ve used my buddies bore scope quite a few times to see just how clean my process gets my rifles. My Bartlein and Rock barrels hardly ever foul so I rarely if ever see any copper fouling in those barrels. My DPMS and Tikka both show very light and faint traces of fouling here and there after cleaning. I figure that fouling is just filling in some of those micro grooves as well as I know I have a good burnish in the barrel and I don’t give it a second thought as they all shoot lights out!

I hope that helps folks to understand what I’m trying to say.

Awesome to read. Todd Hoddnett told me this years ago. I’ve never believed the break in system lots of people used and always just shot my new guns.

I do use a barrel snake often tho. Maybe every 5-20 rounds.

 

[FuhQ]

Scrub the hell out of it down to the white so clean you could eat off it when you first get it. Run a wet patch of RemOil through it and let it soak into the metal. Then before you go shoot it, run a few wet patches of Rem Oil through it again to make sure all the dust and crap is out of it., and that the barrel has some lubricity. Then go shoot and have fun. That's what I do. and it's always worked for me... And I have guns that shoot LITERAL 1-hole groups, where you can't even tell it's more than 1 shot without really have to look at it.

Break-in is a personal thing... If you want to go do the hokey-pokey and clean your barrel out between EVERY shot, go right ahead... Wasting time for the same end result is not my bag.

 

[ECHO-5-PAPA]

Great read. Ive always had a hard time grasping the concept of the "traditional" break-in, reading this makes me glad I never did it just to be one of the cool kids.

 

[tmason1]

Re: Objective research on Barrel Break-in procedures

excellent read, thanks for the information.

yeah that is awesome

 

[Twins82]

Pay for it run it hard, leave it hot and if it doesn't like getting run hard again well get rid of it.

 

[Phatcow]

Waste of time?? Psh, I've run 2k-3k strokes of JB paste through my barrel and it's polished so smooth you can't even see rifling. It's now broken in and ready for 6.5 blackpowder loads.

Otherwise that was great insight and information

 

[huntnh]

I’m trying the no clean method on my new 6.5 barrel all iv done so far is run a oil patch before shooting. Yesterday I fired 20rds to zero scope and check FPS when I got home I ran two patches of oil down the barrel I’ll keep you posted.

 

[acudaowner]

After the crazy long life of my last barrel @7250 rounds before the groups fell to crap . I think I wanna try something different to see if this new barrel could be made to last even longer just not sure what maybe hbn or those final fishing lapping bullets from tubbs I don't know what would be best or even worth the money to try if anything . It all sounds like a gimmick to me but what do I know .

 

[AirGunShawn]

When these barrels are worn out, what is it besides accuracy that has gone bad? It would be nice to see a large barrel cut in half to see any damage visually. Vudoo say's to shoot your new gun about 1K rounds before you send it in for lot testing. Although I can imagine that
the very small machining marks may be imbedded with lead making it a smoother surface much like a file is after use, I don't see the metal being eroded or worn to any measurable degree.

 

[TEXFIRE%$&]

Absolutely the most objective conversation on bore health I've seen. Thank you. WHOOP!

 

[whatsupdoc]

You know sometimes I enjoy when people revive these necro threads, that way I can see all the banned members.
Brings back memories.

 

[TEXFIRE%$&]

You know sometimes I enjoy when people revive these necro threads, that way I can see all the banned members.
Brings back memories.

Just thought it was an interesting, and thought brovoking article. Sense the barrel has a large influence on how the projectile is presented to the external ballistics of the shot, I believe it’s a good idea to perfect that portion of the total equation.

 

[cas6969]

Barrel makers say breaking in your barrel is bad and it keeps them in business.
Or maybe they're saying that because they don't want you to break in your barrel, which is bad and will keep them in business! Ah-ha!

 

[scottpropheter]

My partner, who owns a shop and builds some rad rigs (Stumpies Custom Guns), and I did a YouTube video on this. Man...we got some interesting reaponse to the Facebook page after we posted it...

 

[JAS-SH]

Barrels all die sooner or later. Fact of life. They all die by the throat. just a matter of when. Heat is the enemy.

That's why my now deceased brother in law and his door gunner buddy carried 8 barrels for their Huey mounted M60s back in 1970's 'nam. His crew got shot down 5 times by the way. he was the only survivor on the last one, spent 2 weeks in the jungle. RIP.

If you buy a custom hand lap barrel it SHOULD be ready to shoot from the get go. This has been my experience with high end barrels. Some bores look so good when new I don't even want to shoot them (kidding - NOT!). A well made custom barrel fouls very little, unless you use a dirty powder, and all mine have shot great from the first cold bore shot.

From this experience, if I shoot a new barrel and it shoots great from the first shot then I want it back to its original as new state. So, I clean the crap out of it every time I shoot it (never abrasives). That makes plenty of sense to me. It's really hard to hurt a barrel's bore unless you haven't a clue on how to clean one.

If the barrel doesn't shoot well at first, it's not a good barrel. You still "might" be able to burnish it and make it shoot Blah, Blah, Blah....

As for breaking it in, I shoot 5 shots. Then I put a patch or two through it to see what's going on, and if I don't see any really tiny bright metal shards on them I'm done.

As I said at the beginning, sooner or later they all die and the die by the throat....

 

[BobV]

Interesting opInion, What if this was supposed to be a report of “research” then it should have included a discussion of (1)materials And methods, [2] data, with comparison to results from Control samples, [3] Conclusions and recommendations. There was no quantification of any sort other than insisting that the author has a much better borescope than anyone else in the world [Qualitative results, such as light, medium, or heavy copper fouling would have been more useful than the merer insistence that “I have a better horoscope than you do so I know what I’m talking about,“ would have been infinitely more helpful. What would happen if you shot the crap out of a new barrel and compared it to one that went through the one shot clean, etc. ritual?

There was no quantification of any sort other than insisting that the author has a much better borescope than anyone else in the world. What would happen if you shot the crap out of a new barrel and compared it to one that went through the one shot clean, etc. ritual. If what we’re fighting is the copper deposits from the plasma created by the jacket smoothing over the rough spots left by the chamber reemer, Versus the risk of barrel damage from a steel cleaning rod, then wouldn’t it be possible to just shoot the new rifle, let the copper build up, and then clean it out with an ammonia product[Without letting it soak long enough to cause pitting of the steel barrel] and then JB bore paste If necessary until all the copper is gone, verified by a borescope.

Incidentally, what is this fascination with the special “video” borescope? What’s wrong with a Teslong USB Video camera?

Sorry if someone already pointed this out in the past 12 years the app version is only showing me this discussion through 2010

 

[lil'skeet]

Sounds like stick with what works. If it ain't broke don't fix it. If your happy with your results and don't need better leave well enough alone.
Like my AK. 7000+ rounds later, never cleaned, steel cased bullshit ammo only, still shoots the same way it did when new. 10 MOA if I do my part and conditions are perfect.

 

[acudaowner]

nothing fancy here do a wipe when new oil wipe and shoot , get home give it a good wipe done . no 10 shot wipe and or all that my last creedmoor barrel had 7250 rounds through it and only the last 250 round showed any sign that I needed a new barrel but it was a clear sign as nothing I could do would keep the rounds together groups just opened up . this time I wanted to treat the barrel a little differently , but I missed that chance and just did the same thing as the last one .

 

[Baron23]

I recently received a great BA from Altus. I sent them the Bartlein .264 MODBB400 blank, they had the action and trigger and Ern chambered it.

I did look at the throat prior to shooting and wow...Ern did a very clean and even job of cutting the chamber this barrel.

1. I fired on round, ran some solvent down, got blue from copper.

2. I fired another round, ran some solvent down, got a bit less blue from copper.

3. I fired a three round group, ran some solvent down, hardly got any copper

4. So, I fired a five round group, ran some solvent down, and it came out clean so break in was, IMO, done.

Something happened in those first five rounds to go from picking up copper to not really at all. Call it what you want...IMO, it just smoothed out some small tool marks in the throat.

By the by, I'm very happy with this BA and it shoots very well.

 

[Nik H]

I recently received a great BA from Altus. I sent them the Bartlein .264 MODBB400 blank, they had the action and trigger and Ern chambered it.

I did look at the throat prior to shooting and wow...Ern did a very clean and even job of cutting the chamber this barrel.

1. I fired on round, ran some solvent down, got blue from copper.

2. I fired another round, ran some solvent down, got a bit less blue from copper.

3. I fired a three round group, ran some solvent down, hardly got any copper

4. So, I fired a five round group, ran some solvent down, and it came out clean so break in was, IMO, done.

Something happened in those first five rounds to go from picking up copper to not really at all. Call it what you want...IMO, it just smoothed out some small tool marks in the throat.

By the by, I'm very happy with this BA and it shoots very well.

Are you bringing it in Sept?

 

[Baron23]

Are you bringing it in Sept?

Yes, indeedy. With a suppressor and ZCO this time. Brand new world here, Nikky!

 

[Nik H]

Yes, indeedy. With a suppressor and ZCO this time. Brand new world here, Nikky!

Looking forward to seeing your improved proficiency

 

[Baron23]

Looking forward to seeing your improved proficiency

No, no....the gun is better....the shooter still sucks! haha

 

[PowPowHawg]

@hillbillyprecision

 

[338dude]

After the crazy long life of my last barrel @7250 rounds before the groups fell to crap . I think I wanna try something different to see if this new barrel could be made to last even longer just not sure what maybe hbn or those final fishing lapping bullets from tubbs I don't know what would be best or even worth the money to try if anything . It all sounds like a gimmick to me but what do I know .

I have used them on a friend’s rifle and we saw an improvement not saying it was fixed but it was an improvement