Objectively Speaking: PWS MK1 & LWRC Piston AR's

[halowords]

I've read some (o.k., a lot) about both. Full disclosure, I've read the DMack thread on the MK114 and I'm sold on it as a great option. However, I had not really read anything about the LWRC/LWRCI piston AR-15's, and on the used market (which I'm totally fine with) the price difference is about a push. So I thought I'd read up on both just so I did not get tunnel vision on the MK114. Also, I'm fully aware of the Piston/DI wars, so I know what I'm getting into.

That said, this being the Internet, my results usually were usually either:

A) Piston hating DI-loving advocates. Which is fine, but I am really sort of set on a piston AR due to cleaning.
B) LWRC-Fanboys. Which is fine. I realize each brand has their loyal fanbase. And;
C) PWS-Fanboys. Which is, again, fine.

However, none of this is terribly useful. So I'm wondering, is there any objective merit to the relative pro's & con's of the two systems? I am not really asking which is "better," as that is way too subjective, and from reading they are both going to be pretty good. I'm just wondering what are the merits of one over the other, a/o if I should even be considering the LWRC or just stick with Plan A and get an MK114 and call it a day. If anybody has tried/owned both, I'd really love what you found better or different between the two, again trying to keep this as objective as possible.

Thanks in advance!

-Cheers

 

[TripleD]

Re: Objectively Speaking: PWS MK1 & LWRC Piston AR's

I think you limited your post so much you may not see a lot of responses.

One question....why is gun cleaning so important? At what point have you found an AR to fail due to becoming dirty through firing?

 

[borefodder]

Re: Objectively Speaking: PWS MK1 & LWRC Piston AR's

I think it's important to look at the rest of the rifle as well as the piston system design before making your choice. That is, which is more accurate or will fit your needs best? Piston system aside. Certainly it is important but both seem to be doing well.

I don't have any hands on exp with PWS but people seem to swear by them. I do have an LWRC M6 SPR and it is hands down the best AR I've owned yet and I've had a few (all DI up to this point though). This would be my first piston AR though although I've shot several makes from friends rifles. I've not had any FTF or FTE and not seen any carrier tilt issues yet. I have only put about 1500 rds though it so far but it has performed well using many different types of ammo from cheap to expensive. Both look to be fine rifles. Pick one and enjoy. Just my 2 cents Good luck

 

[chainring]

Re: Objectively Speaking: PWS MK1 & LWRC Piston AR's

In my experience (LWRC M6A2, SL, A3 (14.5 and 12.7) SPR, and 16 inch REPR) the LWRC rifle line would serve you very well. Mine are suppressed most of the time. 5.56 rifles have proven to be MOA or better with quality ammo, and the REPR is nearly 1/2 MOA. I clean them approximately once a year. From what I've heard, the PWS rifles are of similar quality, and the companies behind both are good people with good CS. The PWS rifles use a slightly lighter profile barrel under the handguard, and have a bit more "balanced" feel as a result. The spiral fluting of the 16 inch REPR and the SPR lineup has basically negated that difference, though. Both are excellent products, although the LWRC is the only one with which I have personal experience. The side charging handle of the REPR is a huge factor for me, since I shoot suppressed. That alone would bring me to LWRC in the .308 line. As for 5.56, I think you would be very happy with either brand.

 

[BCP]

Re: Objectively Speaking: PWS MK1 & LWRC Piston AR's

The LWRC has more/'better' features than the PWS but it's not worth it.

IMHO if you want an AR for 3k your top choices should be GAP, Larue, LMT.

If you think that a piston is actually necessary (it's not) I like the POF rifles as they have great barrels, are pretty much free floating (PWS is not), and the price is reasonable.

 

[BCP]

Re: Objectively Speaking: PWS MK1 & LWRC Piston AR's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chainring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The side charging handle of the REPR is a huge factor for me</div></div>

Agreed it is a very nice feature.

 

[halowords]

Re: Objectively Speaking: PWS MK1 & LWRC Piston AR's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TripleD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you limited your post so much you may not see a lot of responses.

One question....why is gun cleaning so important? At what point have you found an AR to fail due to becoming dirty through firing? </div></div>

Fair enough. Yeah, it's a limited topic. Those are just the two that primarily caught my interest in the piston-based AR-15 world. As for your questions?

1) I'm anal about cleaning my guns. Not that I've ever seen an AR fail due to fouling, just that I like to keep things pretty pristine as a matter of course and a piston rifle is easier to maintain than a DI version. And;
2) I recently cleaned my AR with an Army Vet. It was a very intensive experience.

Not that I'd have to be that meticulous (it was pretty much boot camp maintenance), but I think he could have taken hours to work with a dental pick and a couple hundred Q-tips.

Mainly, I just like to keep things VERY clean, and a piston gun would be a bit easier to do so with. It's not that I think a piston is necessary or that there is anything wrong with DI. Just that I'd like a piston in an AR or variant/derivative/inspired-by/etc.

Also, I see little reason not to choose something like a PWS MK1 series, LWRC, or any of the other piston AR variants that seem to be working pretty well, or at least consider them. But hey, that's why I'm asking about it on a forum.

 

[mbell556]

Here is a video I put together to compare the LWRC and PWS

Comparison of LWRC Individual Carbine to Primary Weapons Sy - YouTube

 

[mbell556]

Review of differences PWS VS LWRC

I've read some (o.k., a lot) about both. Full disclosure, I've read the DMack thread on the MK114 and I'm sold on it as a great option. However, I had not really read anything about the LWRC/LWRCI piston AR-15's, and on the used market (which I'm totally fine with) the price difference is about a push. So I thought I'd read up on both just so I did not get tunnel vision on the MK114. Also, I'm fully aware of the Piston/DI wars, so I know what I'm getting into.

That said, this being the Internet, my results usually were usually either:

A) Piston hating DI-loving advocates. Which is fine, but I am really sort of set on a piston AR due to cleaning.
B) LWRC-Fanboys. Which is fine. I realize each brand has their loyal fanbase. And;
C) PWS-Fanboys. Which is, again, fine.

However, none of this is terribly useful. So I'm wondering, is there any objective merit to the relative pro's & con's of the two systems? I am not really asking which is "better," as that is way too subjective, and from reading they are both going to be pretty good. I'm just wondering what are the merits of one over the other, a/o if I should even be considering the LWRC or just stick with Plan A and get an MK114 and call it a day. If anybody has tried/owned both, I'd really love what you found better or different between the two, again trying to keep this as objective as possible.

Thanks in advance!

-Cheers

LWRC Individual Carbine Vs Primary Weapons System MOD1 - YouTube

 

[chainring]

Nice video, Mbell556. I already have LWRC stuff, and already wanted some PWS stuff. That didn't help.

 

[Stcraycraft]

Great video. Refreshing to see some objectivity.

I have had a POF piston upper for years. It has been an absolute machine. It has 15,000+ rounds through it at this point, and is the veteran of many carbine classes. But like the LWRC, a piston rod hits the bolt carrier group. The reliability of this type system has proven itself, but just seems so counter intuitive. Metal consistently pounding into metal just seems like a bad idea to me. That is the reason I started looking at PWS. I really like the idea of gas pushing against the piston rod instead of metal pounding on metal. I also like the idea of both the upper and lower of the PWS being mill spec.
I think I am starting to lean towards PWS being my next upper.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[sdelorge24]

I just picked up a Pws Mk216. A little different than what you mentioned in your post bit I did get a chance to take it the range and play with it a bit.
It shot like it should, had a few ftf issues with old south african battle pack ammo but all in all it ran fine.

Cleaning was simple. I cleaned my regular ar in 556 first and it was diiiirty after shooting. The Pws was a simple clean. The bolt had minimal dirt on it but the piston was filthy. Not a big issue Because its a small piece. Probably only a quarter amount of time and effort to clean the pws.

I really like the pws design. Its not made to be a pof or lwrc its supposed to be a battle rifle in line with a scar. Maybe not quality but the original concept of its origin.

 

[shooterman_zero17]

I've shot a PWS MK114 enough to know that I would absolutely buy one if afforded the chance, not bat an eye, be 100% content. Gun hasn't failed once...and cleaning is a breeze FWIW.

I wish I could have some trigger time on a Mod 1 rifle, with the new freefloated Keymod handguard...the gun I've spent time with can get rather toasty in hand, even with XTMs/rail covers.

That being said, the LWRC UCIW stock (the one sold with shorter stock, buffer tube, spring, buffer...) has really caught my interest...I would certainly like to buy one and try it out...

 

[scimitar2]

I have owned several LWRC and PWS rifles (and shot 5000 to 10,000+ rounds through each) over the years. Of the two, I prefer the PWS. The weight and balance is better to me. The cleaning issue is negligable to me as a properly built DI AR will run dirty as long as it is wet same as a piston AR. Of the two, I would prefer the PWS, but unless you are shooting a SBR, I no longer see the need for a piston rifle.

 

[Tact999]

Owned LWRCs since. '06 and just ordered a PWS Mk107. I like them all......well not POF anyway.