OCW question-6.5CM-RL 16-Howa 1500

[Fweedombypepe]

Tried shooting an OCW test ..at 200 yards..with a magnetospeed...first time for me btw. Used .4 grain steps..yeah I know. Also wind blew over my paper and I miffed the 41.9. Also I didn't do round robin on this one.
Determined a node around the the first two groups..40.3 and 40.7. Decided to do another one centered around that.
Speed is fine..42.3 was still safe but I don't like the recoil Plus this gun is for new shooters to practice on.

Then I shot this..no Magneto. Also at 200. Round robin..a minute between shots and 5 min between strings. All at 2.84 coal.....045 off the lands.
note..The group at 40.1 I only got two rounds in..skipped first off the ground..so I guessed the impact.

So theres obviously a node around 40.1 to 40.7. My question is..whats the center? Is it common for the POI
to drop a bit like it did at 40.7 on the edge of a node? or I could've pulled the lower one and skewed the POI center.

Whats my next step? Load 40.4 and quit dicking around and go shoot?

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Why would you shoot your OCW in such a fucked up pattern? If the goal is to analyze data, then that data needs to be in a logical order.

Up and down and in a circle, really? If you had shot them in a logical manner with charges progressing from left to right in a straight line, it would make this about 10 times easier to read. In an OCW, you are comparing each charge weight to the ones on either side of it.

Your 40.3 - 40.7 would be a low node, if it is one at all. Why didn't you include the other shots in the group on 40.3? Doing an OCW with anything attached to the barrel puts your results in question before you've even started.

 

[spife7980]

Agree, make it easy on your self.

I would test 40.4. 40.5. 40.6 just for some assurance or call it good with 40.5 and be done.

 

[Fweedombypepe]

Next time i'll be better prepared. I guess I can write the results down in a logical order to ananlyze.
like so..
POI...3.24, 3.20, 3.10, 3.34, 3.03, 2.30

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Next time i'll be better prepared. I guess I can write the results down in a logical order to ananlyze.
like so..
POI...3.24, 3.20, 3.10, 3.34, 3.03, 2.30

It isn't just the height, it is the clock position in relation to the point of aim.

 

[Fweedombypepe]

Why would you shoot your OCW in such a up pattern? If the goal is to analyze data, then that data needs to be in a logical order.

Up and down and in a circle, really? If you had shot them in a logical manner with charges progressing from left to right in a straight line, it would make this about 10 times easier to read. In an OCW, you are comparing each charge weight to the ones on either side of it.

Your 40.3 - 40.7 would be a low low node, if it is one at all. Why didn't you include the other shots in the group on 40.3? Doing an OCW with anything attached to the barrel puts your results in question before you've even started.

I knew you guys were gonna yell at me from what I did wrong on these OCW tests before I even posted. But I value your advice so much I did it anyway.​

I had loaded five of the 40.3..one a cold bore and another sighter. I adjusted scope after them..apparently not correctly.

Are there any drawbacks to a low node? Ive seen several guys pushing the 140's at 2550 and having great accuracy and no desire to go faster.

A little context..
This rifle belongs to my bro-in-law..he's not new to guns but has horrible habits, zero guidance and training so far...and cant hit anything.
Were both just weekend target shooters at this point.
Im using this to practice and refine my reloading skills. Im getting more out of reading ten hours on snipershide and then applying what I read and learning from that, then he'll ever get out of this gun.

 

[John Glidewell]

With RL16 your nodes will be about 1.5 - 2 grains apart +- and about 150-200 fps. I typically run 140s anywhere from 41.8 to 42.6 at 2885-2910 out of a 28" barrel. Every barrel has shot at 41.8-42.6 shooting 140 ELD, 140 Berger BT, 142 SMK and 140 Berger Hybrids. The benefits to shooting a lower node, esp if a trainer/learning rig is less recoil and component life.

 

[Fweedombypepe]

Agree, make it easy on your self.

I would test 40.4. 40.5. 40.6 just for some assurance or call it good with 40.5 and be done.

Test how?

 

[John Glidewell]

Load up some at those weights and shoot them. Best groups and ES numbers win.

 

[Fweedombypepe]

Load up some at those weights and shoot them. Best groups and ES numbers win.

only got a magnetospeed. Do I shoot groups with it attached or not?! or both?

 

[John Glidewell]

I would load up 8 of each. 4 shot groups is plenty. Do 4 with and 4 without.

 

[spife7980]

only got a magnetospeed. Do I shoot groups with it attached or not?! or both?

I would want to know what it does without a tuning fork strapped to the end of the barrel since you wont be running around with it strapped on for the rest of its life.

But if you want to shoot additional rounds with it on for numbers then thats fine too.

 

[Fweedombypepe]

I think ill load up a couple with 40.4, 40.5, and 40.6 and shoot. Best group wins. Then ill load up all hundred pieces I got and maybe test the first couple for ES.

What if my best of the three groups has the worst ES? Maybe its best I don't know that. It'll just screw with my mind and make me want to do additional tests.

I did shoot 10 rounds of 40.3g before I even did these OCW tests. Cold bore was fast and the rest had SD of 7 and ES of 18 I think. Forgot to write it down. 3 shot group .5 and a 5 shot group .75. Wasn't satisfied so I went further.

 

[spife7980]

Thats why I test on paper at both 100 and 500.

The only way to know is to test. The only limit to testing is your patience and willingness to settle.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I knew you guys were gonna yell at me from what I did wrong on these OCW tests before I even posted. But I value your advice so much I did it anyway.

Come on man, dry those tears. Nobody thinks you are fuck tard.......yet.

Are there any drawbacks to a low node? Ive seen several guys pushing the 140's at 2550 and having great accuracy and no desire to go faster.

Lots of speed demons on this site. Lots aren't happy unless they are redlining everything. I don't see any problem with using a low node.

 

[regency]

I think I remember reading a post by lowlight quite some time ago. He stated if you are 1/2" at 100 and a SD lower than 15. Just start shooting.

 

[Steel head]

Come on man, dry those tears. Nobody thinks you are fuck tard.......yet.



Lots of speed demons on this site. Lots aren't happy unless they are redlining everything. I don't see any problem with using a low node.

Low node is often a happy place and doesn’t get spooky in wet or hot conditions.

 

[Fweedombypepe]

I think I remember reading a post by lowlight quite some time ago. He stated if you are 1/2" at 100 and a SD lower than 15. Just start shooting.

I've done a lot of testing with this gun..using the wrong primers earlier...just generally inconclusive 'testing' due to not really knowing what the hell im doing.. different projectiles when breaking in the barrel, etc. SD's were always under 15 for 3 to 5 shot groups. Usually around 6.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Anyone who has ever shot Federal Gold Medal Match has shot ammo loaded squarely in the low node. That is why it works in so many different rifles. It is boring and non-sexy as fuck, but you always know exactly what you are going to get from it.

 

[Fweedombypepe]

Okay I shot three shot groups of 40.4, 40.5, and 40.6 at 150 yards. Conditions were crappy, foggy and windy and freezing my bullocks. My shooting was crappy. I Know this gun can shoot better then this. Shouldve waited and done it another day but wanted to get it done. Also would've done five shot groups..but this is all the brass I had left in the batch of once fired.

Couple questions.

#1. Does the small rise in POI mean anything? I guess because I saw no POI rise on previous target from 40.1g till 40.7g makes me question myself. Or is it statistically insignificant?

#2. Does this make me or the gun half moa all day long if I do my part?

#3. Is this gun and load considered accurate AF?

#4 Should I just load 40.5 and be done with it?

 

[spife7980]

1) I dont really see any real rise between groups.

2) Sure but not really

3) No, there is more than one hole

4)I would be fine with the powder charge weight, if you want is smaller try a seating depth test to narrow it down even finer.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Okay I shot three shot groups of 40.4, 40.5, and 40.6 at 150 yards. Conditions were crappy, foggy and windy and freezing my bullocks. My shooting was crappy. I Know this gun can shoot better then this. Shouldve waited and done it another day but wanted to get it done. Also would've done five shot groups..but this is all the brass I had left in the batch of once fired.

Couple questions.

#1. Does the small rise in POI mean anything? I guess because I saw no POI rise on previous target from 40.1g till 40.7g makes me question myself. Or is it statistically insignificant?

#2. Does this make me or the gun half moa all day long if I do my part?

#3. Is this gun and load considered accurate AF?

#4 Should I just load 40.5 and be done with it?

View attachment 7198628

The small variation in POI you are seeing means little in this context. It is about as consistent as you could reasonably hope for. Your next major move was at 40.9.

You are also fortunate in that the seating depth you decided to do testing at, seems a good fit for the powder charge that won. I would go with 40.5 at current seating depth and call it done.

 

[Steel head]

I’m guessing the SD/ES is GTG as well and these have have proven at distance?

 

[Fweedombypepe]

I’m guessing the SD/ES is GTG as well and these have have proven at distance?

I have not shot 40.5 over chrono yet. ut I did on this first pic in this thread do 40.3 and 40.7.
Im assuming it'll be around 15 ES.
I have not shot this load farther then 200.

 

[Fweedombypepe]

More questions.

#1. Dan Newberry says pick seating depth and shoot OCW..then shrink groups with seating depth.
Others I read here on the hide here and elsewhere suggest picking a safe charge weight and doing a seating depth test to find depth that shoots well, then do the OCW. Thoughts? Reasons?


#2 What seating depths should I test on? Touching lands, 10thou out, and my current 45thou out and best group wins?

 

[Steel head]

More questions.

#1. Dan Newberry says pick seating depth and shoot OCW..then shrink groups with seating depth.
Others I read here on the hide here and elsewhere suggest picking a safe charge weight and doing a seating depth test to find depth that shoots well, then do the OCW. Thoughts? Reasons?


#2 What seating depths should I test on? Touching lands, 10thou out, and my current 45thou out and best group wins?

I just guess a seating depth and do powder test then tune with seating depth if needed.
I ALWAYS lump.
I start somewhere between .1 and .02.
It just works for me and once I get a results I’m happy with I’m done.

 

[Fweedombypepe]

I just guess a seating depth and do powder test then tune with seating depth if needed.
I ALWAYS lump.
I start somewhere between .1 and .02.
It just works for me and once I get a results I’m happy with I’m done.

I picked 2.94 coal because when I was breaking in the barrel using different primers and new brass I did several
half assed tests and my groups were similar with 10 thou jump and with 45 thou jump. Since 2.94 works in the magazine I got I stayed
with that. COAL would be 2.98 touching lands and i'd have to single load.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

More questions.

#1. Dan Newberry says pick seating depth and shoot OCW..then shrink groups with seating depth.
Others I read here on the hide here and elsewhere suggest picking a safe charge weight and doing a seating depth test to find depth that shoots well, then do the OCW. Thoughts? Reasons?


#2 What seating depths should I test on? Touching lands, 10thou out, and my current 45thou out and best group wins?

Doing seating depth first with a minimum load MIGHT help a little with the resolution during the charge progression testing. That is the reasoning I've heard anyway. I highly doubt it would turn out that way in every situation, but it's not gonna hurt anything.

 

[Fweedombypepe]

Took the Howa out a couple weeks ago for zeroing and confirming what I suspected. Shot (5) three shot groups left to right, top to bottom. Bottom left were first two sighters.

I confirmed that the gun and load were more accurate that I had been. Shot eight rounds over magentospeed( not pictured). Es 16 SD 5.5. I did forget to use an expander mandrel on these rounds so ES could be better.

 

[Billiam1211]

Don't discount the seating depth test either. I did a 10-shot Satterlee test and worked up a load with a very nice SD of 4 and ES of 12, but I was annoyed because the group size was barely 1/2 MOA. Went back and did a seating depth test the following weekend and found that seating depth was the missing link.