Off-centered scope

[Rogue111]

When mounting a scope on my Savage 12 in 223, I was disappointed to find the scope mount is not centered to the bore. If you look at it it's subtle, but its definitely there. I'm thinking once the scope/rifle is zeroed, the off-centered scope shouldn't have much effect on downrange scope adjustments as long as the rifle & scope is not canted. In other words upon zeroing, the scope erector assembly will have to be adjusted to compensate for the off-centered scope holes. Am I correct in this assumption or am I overlooking something?

Thanks for your input.

 

[RyeDaddy]

If I'm seeing that right it looks like the scope is misaligned, pointed more to the left side of the photo whereas the bore is dead on?

If it were me I would contact Savage or have a Gunsmith redrill and tap to a larger screw. Would save some worrying. I'm no gunsmith, so I don't know what other options you have, but It seems that you would have windage issues at different ranges, no? As in it could be zero'd for 100 yards, but as you change distance to target the windage is bound to be off. Could be wrong, but I'd get it fixed anyway.

 

[Rogue111]

Once the scope is zeroed arbitrarily at 100yds (windage is adjusted for being off-centered) it would then be right on despite any change in range. Am I not thinking this out right?

 

[RyeDaddy]

I wish someone who's been through this would chime in because I'm interested in knowing the correct answer...

 

[roggom]

No it will not, your scope body is yawed to the right(boresight misalignment), even if you move the internal crosshairs to get zero at 100, you will find that your point of impact will walk to the left the further out you shoot. Also you will find that the POI will be to the left at 25-50Y

You can have savage take a look at it and repair/replace your rifle.
or
Have a smith recut the holes
or
Get a Leupold standard ring set with the offset windage adjustment in the rear, or burris signature rings. You should be able to then adjust the ring to base alignment and then rezero. Not the best way to attack this problem as Savage should just replace it, but a viable option.

 

[RUMrunner]

Is it that the entire scope is offset or that the front is off to one side? If the entire scope is offset it could cause an issue, otherwise it won't be. If in fact the entire scope is off center i would have my windage zeroed at the longest range i shoot. this would mean that anywhere within that range it would never be farther off than how off center the scope is, and will continually get closer with range. I can't imagine it's more than a 1/4 inch at the muzzle. if zeroed at 800 then your error would be 1/4 inch at muzzle 3/16 inch at 200 1/8 inch and 400 1/16 inch at 600. seems pretty negligible to me. if the scope is merely crooked i would buy windage adjustable scope mounts.

 

[Rogue111]

Great points guys. The yawing factor makes total sense, I had a feeling I was making it easier in my head than it actually was. I think I may just shoot it at various ranges to see how much error there is. Unfortunately I already had the barrel shortened & threaded before I found the issue... lesson learned.

 

[gme]

Set up a 3 foot tall paper target at 100 yards, hang a plumb bob in front of it and fire on it then crank your elevation up firing every hundred yards to 1000 (using the same aim point) it'll give you a quick read on the set up.

 

[roggom]

One more thing, if you have another set of rings you might try those. Not sure which rings you have but have heard of this with XTR rings.

 

[Rogue111]

One more thing, if you have another set of rings you might try those. Not sure which rings you have but have heard of this with XTR rings.

Hmmmmm... They are indeed XTR rings. I'll test that theory tomorrow. This may be another instance of you get what you pay for. GME, that is a brilliant way to test, definitely will do.

 

[Ledzep]

I am also curious to know, because I didn't see the question answered, Is the entire scope parallel to the bore, but shifted to one side or the other a small amount? OR is the scope mounted at an angle different from the action/barrel center-line?

If it is a simple lateral offset (first situation), it is very easily corrected for. If it's the latter, you may have more issue-- mostly windage adjustment range to properly zero.

It appears to me that the scope is just sitting a little bit right of the bore center-line (as you shoot the rifle). From the looks of it, it's less than 1/4" off, so the error it would cause is so small you can't even really adjust for it (assuming 1/4 MOA or .1 mil adjustments). In other words, don't worry about it. The error it will cause down range is going to be so miniscule you won't be able to correct for it.

 

[Marksman]

I don't think you should ever be playing with the scope erector assembly. That being said, shoot it and see how far off your windage is from center. If it's pretty close to the center, then leave it. If it's not, look into offset rings for a quick fix. Or send it back and wait for a long term fix.

On a side note, I've got a Rem 700 classic with terribly off center holes. I use the Burris rings with a +30 offset in the rear and another -5 offset in the front t get my scope to center.

 

[Rogue111]

It looks as though the scope is angled (not parallel to bore). I've got some mark 4 rings I can try to see if its the rings ( I'm hoping its the XTR rings that are the issue).

Marksman, I wouldn't mess with the internals of the scope, I meant adjusting the windage when zeroing. Sorry if I was unclear.

Thanks for all of your help guys, I'll do some troubleshooting tomorrow night & let you know how it turns out.

 

[Topstrap]

With the technology used today to manufacture actions I'd be surprised that the holes were drilled off center. It's possible but very unlikely, my guess would start off with the rings.

Looking closer at the picture it almost looks like the gun is not setting level but hard to tell from that angle, if so then if it's rotated slightly so the mount sits level then rotate the scope slightly which may bring everything into alignment with the bore and everything will start to true up.

Topstrap

 

[mgoodrich]

Do you have a bore sighter?

From the looks of this, I think you might run out of windage adjustment, depending on your scope.

Bore sighting it first would save you some frustration.

 

[Rogue111]

Well I tried mounting the scope with leupold mark 4 rings and I appears to have the same issue. I then remounted the scope back with the XTR rings and bore sighted. To my surprise, the windage was damn close to the center of the scope set at zero internal windage.

Topstrap: I think you're on to something, this maybe a matter of perspective? If I roll the rifle so that the scope looks dead center over the barrel, the stock then looks just slightly canted. Could it just be the B&C stock that was constructed slightly canted?

I think I will align the the crosshairs square to when the scope is directly in line with the bore and the stock is canted. Do some shooting and see how it comes out.

 

[jdgray]

B&C stocks do have some cast off at the butt stock, appearing to be bent. As long as your parallel to the bore with the scope axis, and the vertical x-hair is splitting the bore, your GTG....

 

[RTK]

Not really related to what you are saying, but someone mentioned doing this. Here is a short article. Curious to find how it turns out.

Reticle Perpendicularity

 

[Rogue111]

B&C stocks do have some cast off at the butt stock, appearing to be bent. As long as your parallel to the bore with the scope axis, and the vertical x-hair is splitting the bore, your GTG....

That's what I'm thinking.

 

[Pinecone]

Not really related to what you are saying, but someone mentioned doing this. Here is a short article. Curious to find how it turns out.

Reticle Perpendicularity

Except that the method shown proves that the reticle has to be perpendicular to the world, not the bore.

 

[Trapshooter12]

Set up a 3 foot tall paper target at 100 yards, hang a plumb bob in front of it and fire on it then crank your elevation up firing every hundred yards to 1000 (using the same aim point) it'll give you a quick read on the set up.

Not trying to be an Ass. But I love advice like this. Are you shooting in a vacum when you do this because the wind is going to effect your point of aim quite abit and this is assuming that the shooter can actually hit the same hole at any distance.

 

[Graham]

This Thread is a cluster. I'm not sure I've seen this much bad information and bad advice all in one place.

 

[Turk]

This Thread is a cluster. I'm not sure I've seen this much bad information and bad advice all in one place.

It is entertaining though!

 

[scudzuki]

If all I have to go from is the photo you've posted (complete with off center lighting, resulting in shadows that muddy my frame of reference) wherein it appears the rifle is canted in the same direction the scope appears to be off center, my assessment is you are imagining it.

Zero at 100, shoot it out to a few hundred, I bet you'll find it's fine.

Joe

 

[gme]

Not trying to be an Ass. But I love advice like this. Are you shooting in a vacum when you do this because the wind is going to effect your point of aim quite abit and this is assuming that the shooter can actually hit the same hole at any distance.

Here's what I'm talking about, this rifle is tracking fine

 

[Graham]

Not trying to be an Ass. But I love advice like this. Are you shooting in a vacum when you do this because the wind is going to effect your point of aim quite abit and this is assuming that the shooter can actually hit the same hole at any distance.

Here's what I'm talking about, this rifle is tracking fine

Trapshooter, Gary didn't mean shoot out to 1000 yards at 100 yard intervals, he meant manipulate the elevation knob to simulate one hundred yard intervals until the DOPE for 1000 yards is achieved.

...Like I said: This Thread is a complete cluster.

 

[gme]

I'll also box the scope while I'm at it, then shoot the rifle at distance (early morning when the wind is minimal) to confirm

 

[roggom]

Leveling the Scope Reticle for Long Range Rifles

A collimator may make life a little easier. The article addresses OP's situation.

Hopefully you can get it figured out.

 

[Dick D]

Lots of conflicting information here. If you think the scope if really not mounted fairly parallel to the bore the solution is simple. First, center the crosshairs in your scope. Move the windage adjustment all the way to the right to the stop. Now go all the way to the left, counting clicks, to the stop. Now move back one-half that number of clicks to get the reticule center in the adjustment range. Do the same with the elevation. Now remove the bolt and look thru the bore and center the target in it at 50 or 100 yds. Now look thru the scope. If it's only off by two or three inches right or left then just sight the rifle in the normal way. If it is off center right to left by more than three or four inches then change to a set of Burris Signature rings with the plastic inserts and get one of their insert kits. Now using the various insert thicknesses move the scope latterly in the rings until it is as close to center as possible (without moving the crosshair adjustment screws), just by following the instructions. Takes a little time and tinkering around but you can solve about 98% of all scope alignment problems with these rings and inserts. Plus you prevent any little scope body to ring alinement problems that may put a kink or bend in your scope body. Actually a very nice product and all my personal scopes are mounted in them. And no, I do not work for Burris, but I can appreciate a darn good idea when someone has one.

 

[Trapshooter12]

Here's what I'm talking about, this rifle is tracking fine

Sorry GME my misunderstanding.