Official (DTA) SRS, HTI, Covert, Hunter Thread
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Got my Elite Iron .408 approval last Thursday. Day 251. Hopefully the Alpha 50 gets cleared this week. I done both on the same day October 7th 2022.
Just to add to the discussion, I have a NF 7-35, Gen 3 Razor 6-36, and the Leupold 7-35. I think they're all great scopes in their own right, but if I'm being honest, I thought I wanted the additional magnification more than I actually needed the additional magnification, if that makes sense. I also have a Tangent Theta 5-25 and Minox 5-25 and I think I would've been better off just buying more 5-25 scopes. Like Secondofangle said, anything above 25x and I see the reticle jumping along with my heartbeat. I also noticed today my Leupold eyebox got extremely finicky at 35x, which is something I don't notice on any of my optics when they're at 25x or below
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When I would test out a scope for ELR in the past, I would just dial the magnification all the way up and see if it was hard to get a good sight picture. Then I would crank the elevation way up too and check. For a very long time even good scopes seem to have issues when you start to get to the limits of the erector cell and magnification. It seems to be less and less of an issue these days though.
That's odd, mine is great, guess you had a bad one.
Yep. The best part of the glass is in the center.
High magnification scopes always seem to have the image darken at high magnification. Eye boxes get touchier at higher magnification. Mirage is obviously an issue with higher magnification.
When we get another ZCO 840, I’ll need to do some comparisons with some other scopes I own and some we have in the shop.
I'm not an optics designer. I can only relate on what I have experienced, been taught, and know personally. I spent some time talking with an optics designer today. He did not agree that a 25x on a 7-35 should look better than 25x on a 5-25 optic all things else being equal. Obviously glass quality between scopes and the design differences could make the 7-35 superior to the 5-25 and causing it to look better at 25x.
All higher magnification scopes, that I have used get darker as the magnification gets increases in their higher magnification ranges. Eyeboxes get touchier. Generally the image gets worse as you are amplifying conditions. Comparing a 15x optic to another optic at 40x really isn't a fair comparison. Comparing both at 15x would be much better comparison between the two optics.
Next time we get an 8-40 in the shop, I'll try to do a personal comparison between it and a 7-35 NF. If anyone else local has a high magnification optic, I'd be happy for you to come over and we can put it in the mix.
A shooting buddy just used him and I heard all the stories when he got back. Shooting off the hood of his old buick, the 'talk'. I recognized that chair he's sitting in from a photo my buddy sent me.
.416 ammo arrived today.. Poor UPS driver was struggling..
I just got the new .375 barrel today. Hopefully I can test it this weekend and see.
Factory barrel?
I got a can for mine yesterday. I'm gonna give it a try this weekend.
is that like 3 barrels worth of ammo?
LoL, it'll get me through the year and maybe spring... It's hard to find, aso when I do I buy it..Should last the afternoon !!
Ha Ha...yeah i know what you mean...
Here in Aus 50bmg components are very very scarce..so when my dealer said he had some Hornady 750 Amax projectiles available i ask how many he had...he replied " 250 boxes" ( 5000) .. i said.." i will take the lot" .. You should of seen the look on his face!!
What velocity do they advertise and what do you get?
and when are you gonna start reloading?
called ES Tactical twice since this post - same answer, shipping any day now, I am sure they do quality work, but please have no expectations on a timely delivery, would be great if you could get a written due date commitment via email before placing an order. At any rate poor customer service experience thus far.
Thats what you have to do… i paid to much for those at about 10.00 a box, but almost 14k in the rifle setup. Cant cry over the price of ammo… I have friends that wait for sales and never have ammo.. its BS that it cost that much and there isn’t more supply, but I am lucky to be able to afford it..Ha Ha...yeah i know what you mean...
Here in Aus 50bmg components are very very scarce..so when my dealer said he had some Hornady 750 Amax projectiles available i ask how many he had...he replied " 250 boxes" ( 5000) .. i said.." i will take the lot" .. You should of seen the look on his face!!
I reload some 50, but i buy ammo. I rarely reload.. By the time i buy 4K worth of reloading crap i could have had more ammo… They advertise 3005 fps out of a 32” barrel, out of my HTI 29” barrel my 10 shot average is 2966 fps..
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PRODUCT INFORMATION & SPECS
Barretts match grade 416 ammunition is loaded with a 452 GR MTAC Cutting Edge Bullet which has a much higher ballistic coefficient than their previous bullet. This change combined with the consistency of Ruag brass and RWS primers allows a shooter to have sub MOA performance capable of hitting targets well beyond 2500 yards making it ideal for extreme long range shooting.
UPC 816715018601
Caliber 416 BARRETT
Bullet Type MTAC
Grain Weight 452 GRAIN
Casing BRASS
Muzzle Energy (FT LBS) 9065
Muzzle Velocity (FPS) 3005
Unit BX
Rounds Per Box 10
Boxes Per Case 8
Rounds 10 ROUNDS
Grain Weight Ranges 329 AND GREATER
Muzzle Energy Ranges 7999 AND GREATER
Get the internal barrel clamping area of the Chassis mic,d up...
Do you measure the internal clamp with the barrel clamp in the tightened done position?
Remove the clamping screws.
Due to how the clamping screws "Pinch" the barrel....any excess clearance will cause the sides to clamp...but! there is the potential for the top yo still have a clearance even when clamped. As in my case the allowed vertical movement of the barrel.
Just remember....even 0.0005" movement at the clamping area will allow the muzzle to move enough to cause huge POI changes.
Due to how the clamping screws "Pinch" the barrel....any excess clearance will cause the sides to clamp...but! there is the potential for the top yo still have a clearance even when clamped. As in my case the allowed vertical movement of the barrel.
Just remember....even 0.0005" movement at the clamping area will allow the muzzle to move enough to cause huge POI changes.
I agree, that makes perfect sense. When my first chassis had the vertical stringing issue, we figured it had to be something being elongated or oval. Hopefully this is not a future issue with the more rounds put through it. I'd like to get a 2nd HTI.
I plan to make once I find a shop with the tools you previously mentioned, however the new barrel didn’t even make it to firing.
Indeed, I was so close to getting that ATIP load finished. Shittiest part of the whole thing is I just received a bunch of H50BMG that I won’t be getting to use anytime soon.
Oh well I guess there’s always the .408 425 grain lasers and RL25 to work on.
Maybe I should change my Avatar pic to “ Bad Luck Brian”?
Does the .408 group good?
I figured the chassis was going to be the problem but if the other barrels group good I'm at a loss but don't change that avatar yet.
Would the latest barrel seat in the chassis?
The latest barrel would seat but the bolt, that they did some work on in the last RMA, would NOT go into battery. So after I send this one back I’ll be on barrel # 4. You guys want to start a betting pool on what barrel I’ll be on before I will actually be able to finalize and start shooting my ATIP load?? 6 7?
The .408 works fine and always has for the last 4 years or so. I really would like to get a .375 barrel from them of the same quality.
DT said that my vertical stringing issues were from the .375 barrel only (despite it also happening with .408) I’m not sure what they did to my chassis but the .408 stringing issues SEEM to have ended.
I think the main issue is along the lines wooferocau is saying, so until that is fixed I think you'll keep going through barrels with the same results. I'll have to look at my packing list to see how much they opened my chassis up so the 408 would fit, that's what caused my problem. It was like a minute amount to.
Did DT open up your chassis to get the .408 barrel to fit? Seems to me if the .408 shank was oversized that they should have turned the barrel shank down to spec.
Yes and turning the shank would definitely been the way to go.
Making "mods" to the internal barrel clamping area is ridiculous....... Its either "In Spec" or " Out of Spec" .
I measured '4' 375 barrel shanks...... The range was... 41.146 mm to 41.175 mm ... so a tiny bit over 0.001"
My original HTI chassis had circa 0.004" clearance over the nominal barrel shank dia...way way to much.
My new chassis is basically a "Transition" fit
I measured '4' 375 barrel shanks...... The range was... 41.146 mm to 41.175 mm ... so a tiny bit over 0.001"
My original HTI chassis had circa 0.004" clearance over the nominal barrel shank dia...way way to much.
My new chassis is basically a "Transition" fit
If over "Spec" ..then yep they should of .. Modding the Internal Clamping area is crazy..
Are you able to accurately measure your 408 barrel shank with a micrometre ( referenced against a test gauge ) ?
I use .308 as "zero." It's ubiquitous and a work horse and will remain so for our lifetimes.
I use 6.5 Creedmoor and .338 LM offsets as special purpose adjuncts.
Dogtown that’s what I thought too. I had to drop my Retumbo charge by 3.5 grains to get back in my velocity node.
What barrel manufacturer’s broke in for you at the 40-80 round count?
What barrel manufacturer’s broke in for you at the 40-80 round count?
Bartlein, K&P, Lothar-Walther, Krieger...
For reference, most non-magnum barrels for me break-in between 100-160 rounds
For reference, most non-magnum barrels for me break-in between 100-160 rounds
For Bartlein I had similar results, Krieger 5.56 broke in at less than 100 rounds.
I have a brand new .375 barrel from DT that I pressure tested this weekend with ATIPS and H50BMG. It was 105 at the range and I went up to 137 grains. Velocity at 137 grains was 2890 fps with slight pressure signs. Barrel has 17 rounds through it now. Usually, with DT barrels, 137 gets me to about 2960.
So 23 more rounds and it should break in?
I have a brand new .375 barrel from DT that I pressure tested this weekend with ATIPS and H50BMG. It was 105 at the range and I went up to 137 grains. Velocity at 137 grains was 2890 fps with slight pressure signs. Barrel has 17 rounds through it now. Usually, with DT barrels, 137 gets me to about 2960.
So 23 more rounds and it should break in?
There's no deterministic number for break-in. It could take 40; it could take 100. I wouldn't get too focused on it because are you just going to keep shooting it until it speeds up? What if it takes 200 rounds? That's a lot of waste for what may only be a minor speed increase. And then there are barrels that don't speed up, so you're working in a probabilistic zone.
Usually with a new magnum barrel, I shoot some out of spec rounds or loads that I'm not planning to use anymore (ex I stopped shooting the 215 hybrid a while back but still have about 60 rounds left). I don't necessarily shoot for groups, but just get some rounds down the bore and get a rough idea of how it's shooting. There's often a point where it seems to have stabilized and that's when I do load development (if I need to). Often I already have a load from a previous barrel, so I'll shoot 10 shots of that and see how it's grouping. And then adjust from there, keeping an eye out for any wild speed increase.
Usually with a new magnum barrel, I shoot some out of spec rounds or loads that I'm not planning to use anymore (ex I stopped shooting the 215 hybrid a while back but still have about 60 rounds left). I don't necessarily shoot for groups, but just get some rounds down the bore and get a rough idea of how it's shooting. There's often a point where it seems to have stabilized and that's when I do load development (if I need to). Often I already have a load from a previous barrel, so I'll shoot 10 shots of that and see how it's grouping. And then adjust from there, keeping an eye out for any wild speed increase.
