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Official (DTA) SRS, HTI, Covert, Hunter Thread
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I have been a Desert Tech dealer for about 4 years. I currently run an SRS as my match rifle and I love the monopod. It is pricey, but worth it in my opinion. I am faster with the monopod than a rear bag. A couple of my friends have started to call it the cheater pod.
The great thing about the A-1 is that the rifle is completely ready for the monopod whenever you are. Installing the monopod takes about 5-10 minutes.
I have the A-1 with the monopod. I have also tried using a rear bag in every support position I can think of since monopods are not allowed in some matches I shoot. While I can shoot very well with the bag, the monopod still works better for accuracy, consistency and shooting comfort. Plus, it's one less piece of gear to carry around.
The $350 bump for this option does seem excessive, but once you try it you won't want to be without it.
The thing is, having the monopod doesn't get in the way of you using the rifle without it. It adds a few ounces of weight, but it's not really noticeable.
I use mine with a TAB Gear rear bag most of the time. We sell lots of DTA's with, and without the monopods. The nice thing is, if you are on the fence, you can buy it from us without the monopod, then add it later if you want to offset some cost.
I use mine with a TAB Gear rear bag most of the time. We sell lots of DTA's with, and without the monopods. The nice thing is, if you are on the fence, you can buy it from us without the monopod, then add it later if you want to offset some cost.
Just a heads up for you guys running short 338's. Thunderbeast cans seem to be a very bad idea with our rifles: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...s/267103-thunderbeast-suppressor-blew-up.html
I stripped and oiled the bolt as suggested and found no debris but the bolt was slicker so it was worth the exercise.
Ran the 338 in the final stages of load developement over the weekend and found:
Fed215M - No Misfires
Rem 91/2M - No Misfires
WLRM - No Misfires
CCI250 - 50% misfires
So I guess this looks like a primer issue NOT a DTA issue.
I have a different LOT of the CCI250 so will give them a try as the CCI250 are the clear winners as far as group size and ES is concerned.
Nesika
Thunder Beast works great on our rifles. Just don't run one on an 18" .338 LM barrel. I have been using them for nearly 4 years without any issue. They are noticeably quieter than the Desert Tech suppressors. The Desert Tech Monocore design is stronger than a typical baffle stack and is slightly lighter than the Thunder Beast counter part. Desert Tech has told me that their .338 suppressor is good good to go on the 18" .338 LM.
Many of my customers have several barrels for their DTA's. No point in me recommending or selling a suppressor that won't work on all of them. This is important information that can have drastic consequences for the shooter, both financially and medically. I've sold quite a few thunderbeast cans, both directly, and indirectly, so I have no desire to flog a company for no reason. Yet the fact that this has happened 3 times, and there isn't a nice big warning to that effect on their website, or have been pushed out to the thunderbeast dealers is a disservice in my opinion. It's not like .338 cans are cheap. Bottom line: This is information that should be out there, so customers have a chance of learning these facts and using them to make a purchasing decision that best fits their situation. If it can take the pressure at 20", but can't take the pressure at 18"... that tells me the design is very near its limitation. Sure, the farther away from the chamber you get, the less the pressure... but that's not really the only deciding factor for customers buying switch-caliber rifle systems. I wasn't aware of this as being an issue, and thunderbeast clearly has not gone out of the way to make it known.
Personally, I'd rather have a can that will take the workload of any of the barrels my customer has, or could ever get, within reason. Protecting our customers investment goes beyond the initial sale. Why would I advocate a suppressor that can do half the job, when there are cans available that will do the whole job? Obviously the DTSS isn't as quiet as others out there... but it is lighter, and shorter than almost all of them, not to mention being damn accurate. It has the added benefit of not turning into a grenade on a Covert 338. I'd rather it be a little louder than risk a permanent injury, for myself or my customers.
I can totally understand your position. I leave it to my customers to make their own decisions on what they purchase. Most of my customers have no interest in an 18" .338 LM conversion. I have sold tons of 26" .338 conversions over the past 4 years and a grand total of ONE 18" .338 LM conversion. Maybe that is because I live out west, and most guys out here don't want to handicap their long range ballistics by using an ultra short barrel. I just haven't seen any sort of demand for any magnum in a short barrel.
I personally prefer to use the best tool for the job. When I buy a suppressor, it needs to have no adverse effect on my accuracy and I want it as quiet as possible. Why buy a suppressor rated for an 18" .338 barrel that you will never shoot it on, when it is noticeably louder than other options out there? You have this same sort of issue on .223 suppressors as many are rated down to 10" some will go down to 7" and some are for precision use and some are for full auto fire, I am not going to recommend to my customers that are purchasing an 18" precision oriented .223 to only buy a suppressor that is rated for 7" full auto use because one day they may need it. I will inform them of the facts and let them make their own informed decisions.
To blatantly post that Thunder Beast suppressors are no good for our "DTA" rifles is propaganda and a flat out lie. There is a known issue with using TBAC .338 suppressors on ultra short .338 LM rifles. This affects all rifles not just DTA. This is also limited to the .338 LM cans. I have been shooting their .30 caliber suppressors on other DTA conversions i own without issue. I know guys that run them on shorter barreled .308 rifles without issue. The fact is that they work fantastic with DTA rifles, just don't mix the 18" .338 LM with a TBAC suppressor, especially the older direct thread models that were phased out of production a while ago.
I recently was able to shoot with a pro level shooter that had put 14,000 rounds through his direct thread .30 cal Thunder Beast suppressor on one year (i wish i had that sort of problem). He took second at the match we attended using that same suppressor. If a guy can put 14,000 rounds through a Thunder Beast in one year and still come second place at a national PRS match with the same can, I personally wouldn't worry about running TBAC suppressors if you run them on rifles within their recommended barrel lengths. Thunder Beast makes great products. Guys have been winning matches with Thunder Beast suppressors for years.
On a side note, I just received a call from Thunder Beast. They were trying to track down the 20" failure that Frank reported on the AI as they were not aware of it. Which is very surprising to me, as contacting the manufacturer of a product that I paid $1,700 and experienced a failure with, would be one of the first things I would do.
I would personally like to know a few facts about the failures. One was on a 16" .338 LM, one was on a 18" 338 LM covert, and the other potential one is claimed to be on a 20" .338 LM AIAX. Which models failed? The older thread on model or the newer Brake Attach model? Of the baffle stacks shot out of the can were there any issues with misalignment or was it solely a pressure issue. It sounds like the one Frank witnessed was a pressure issue.
I would like to know facts about the ammo being shot in each incident. Were reloads or factory ammo used? How hot were the rounds loaded? What do other spent cartridges out of that rifle look like? Do they show signs of pressure? What about the actual piece of brass that was in the rifle when the suppressor failed (what does it look like)? With reloads, as we all know there is the potential for operator error. Add a couple extra grains by accident or accidentally use the wrong powder and you have a recipe for disaster. I saw a video of a local shooter blowing up a savage in 338 LM. One could immediately fault Savage (which some did) or dig a little deeper. As it turns out, the shooter screwed up reloading and was very lucky that he didn't injure or kill himself or other shooters on the line. Heck this even happened with a DTA SRS recently. It also turned out to be reloader error that caused that incident.
Before I immediately pass judgment on TBAC .338 LM cans, I would like to know other facts surrounding the incidents of failure.
I would like to know facts about the ammo being shot in each incident. Were reloads or factory ammo used? How hot were the rounds loaded? What do other spent cartridges out of that rifle look like? Do they show signs of pressure? What about the actual piece of brass that was in the rifle when the suppressor failed (what does it look like)? With reloads, as we all know there is the potential for operator error. Add a couple extra grains by accident or accidentally use the wrong powder and you have a recipe for disaster. I saw a video of a local shooter blowing up a savage in 338 LM. One could immediately fault Savage (which some did) or dig a little deeper. As it turns out, the shooter screwed up reloading and was very lucky that he didn't injure or kill himself or other shooters on the line. Heck this even happened with a DTA SRS recently. It also turned out to be reloader error that caused that incident.
Before I immediately pass judgment on TBAC .338 LM cans, I would like to know other facts surrounding the incidents of failure.
Whoa whoa whoa... back the truck up there chief. I SPECIFICALLY said that in reference to short barrel 338's.
"Our"... meaning those with short 338's. Being called a liar is NOT something I'm prepared to tolerate. Especially when its clear that there is some brand loyalty taking place here... or did someone else's can recently break a mans collar bone? Clearly you like the TBAC cans, and that's perfectly fine. I've been an advocate for them in the past as well. Read that again. Make sure you understand that statement in bold. If DTA's can was blowing up and injuring people, I wouldn't be singing a different tune, despite how much I like them as a company and love their products. Facts are facts.
...and just because you know, doesn't mean its a "known issue." One of my customers that bought a TBAC 338 can for his rifle, certainly didn't know, nor does he feel that TBAC adequately tried to inform him of that fact. He's pissed off, and feels betrayed. First he heard about it was in this thread. He's not the type to come post on forums... nor does he feel like reaching out to TBAC. Customer's always right, and if he feels thunderbeast wasn't up front about what can happen with their cans on the shorter barrels, then who am I to argue with him? Other owners posted that they didn't know either. If I made a product, and it was failing catastrophically on certain configurations, I'd go to great lengths to ensure that ALL of my customers and especially the dealers knew about that. Did the dealers get an email or letter warning them of this?
So lets just say Frank is lying about the 20" AI story, (just to support your argument for a second) there are still two other shooters that blew the core out of their TBAC 338's recently, and one has a broken collar bone as a result. Is that propaganda?
Your .223 full auto analogy doesn't really apply, because those customers aren't buying them for a system that was designed to be switch caliber. Even still, my customers damn sure appreciate me recommending they consider a 30 cal can in place of the 5.56 when they learn they can run it on their AR's and their big bolt guns too. You act like I don't let my customers think for themselves, or that I make a habit out of selling shit people don't need. What does that have to do with the issue at hand? If someone is selecting a 338 rated suppressor, WHY would you recommend one that is so close to its design limitations that 2" of barrel length is the deciding factor on whether it will grenade?! That is the issue at hand.
Here's some quickload numbers for various barrel lengths on a 338LM:
Hornady 285 HPBT
93gr Retumbo
Lapua Brass
CCI-250
18" 17667
20" 15472
22" 13725
24" 12306
26" 11132
So what TBAC is basically saying is that the 338P-1 is safe at 13,750psi... but is not safe at 15,500psi, and the 338BA is safe at 15,500psi but not safe at 17,700psi? That's basically 12%. I would never feel comfortable having a 12% window of error. I'd never drive a car that could safely go 65mph, but at 80mph, the wheels would fly off. Suppose a weld didn't get applied absolutely perfectly? Suppose the source material was defective to a small degree? 12% is a TINY margin for error. Even if it's twice that, it's still too close for comfort when you are dealing with 338 pressures.
The insinuation that my customers are somehow mindless zombies that can't think on their own? Absurd.
The provocation that I'm spreading lies and "propaganda?" Outrageous and ridiculous.
This is a legitimate concern for some of my customers, regardless of how much you'd like to marginalize it. I'd much rather sell a suppressor with a 50% or better safety window than a 12%. This doesn't mean I want TBAC to burn. They have many other products, with a track record of success. Despite your insinuations otherwise, I never declared differently. I'll likely still recommend some of their other products for other applications. Yet there is a CLEAR design issue with a specific product, and denying that is going to do no one any good. Not the brand, and definitely not the dealers. Meanwhile, there are several other brands of 338-rated cans, including DTA's own DTSS, that do not have any instances where the suppressor exploded. (at least none that I'm aware of) My customers would certainly appreciate knowing before laying down $1700+ for their 338-rated suppressor.
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I originally bought my rifle without a monopod and you can use a bag but you have to make sure you bring it with you when you need it. I ended up buying the monopod and skins for my rifle and it was worth every cent I paid. I should have gotten it when I ordered the rifle. You don't need to remember it as its always there on the rifle. Its easy to operate and works very well. To each his own as they say and for me the bags work but the monopod works better.
Frank
Orkan -
I need to apologize as I misread your original post. I don't remember reading you only referencing short 338 LM DTA rifles. Again I apologize.
I was aware of one 338 suppressor blowing its stack on a 16" barreled 338 LM rifle last year. Since that time I have advised my customers against using a tbac 338 suppressor on a short barreled .338 LM firearms. I believe it was sometime last year when tbac put barrel length restrictions on their website.
TBAC was not aware of a 20" AI blowing the stack out of a .338 can either. They even contacted me this evening to find out if I had an idea who it could have been. If customers like yours do not call TBAC and tell them about the circumstances behind these issues how can we expect them to learn of the issues and find out why the can actually failed? I know the TBAC guys are working hard to find the owner of the 20" AI to find out what happened.
I am typing this on my cell while I am at a concert. I can tell we have both grossly misunderstood each others posts. I will call you tomorrow to apologize and to clarify what I was trying say with my post.
I need to apologize as I misread your original post. I don't remember reading you only referencing short 338 LM DTA rifles. Again I apologize.
I was aware of one 338 suppressor blowing its stack on a 16" barreled 338 LM rifle last year. Since that time I have advised my customers against using a tbac 338 suppressor on a short barreled .338 LM firearms. I believe it was sometime last year when tbac put barrel length restrictions on their website.
TBAC was not aware of a 20" AI blowing the stack out of a .338 can either. They even contacted me this evening to find out if I had an idea who it could have been. If customers like yours do not call TBAC and tell them about the circumstances behind these issues how can we expect them to learn of the issues and find out why the can actually failed? I know the TBAC guys are working hard to find the owner of the 20" AI to find out what happened.
I am typing this on my cell while I am at a concert. I can tell we have both grossly misunderstood each others posts. I will call you tomorrow to apologize and to clarify what I was trying say with my post.
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I just want to say how pleased I am with my Thunder Beast 338BA and the customer service from TBAC/Zak as well...I run 22" and 29" SAC 338L Bartlein barrels, 16" 308 covert and 6.5x47L same can works excellent for me. I checked with them prior to running my combos and made an informed decision.
just wanted to say it!
just wanted to say it!
my 2 cents regarding the monopod. overpriced, absolutely. 100% glad I included it on my rifle, and all other rifles w/o feel like they are missing something...
I just talked with DTA today in regard to getting the older chassis milled to work with the A1 skins/cheek. They don't currently have the option, but they are working on getting setup to offer the service again. They tried it for a while, and did a few, but it really wasn't working out. I'll update if I hear that situation has changed.
I've got a Gen 1 from the first batch of 100 rifles and look forward to...some day...getting the receiver milled out to accept the monopod
Humm, Is the monopod worth it? Never used one.
Also, does anyone know of a bipod set up that is similar to the Sako stock bipod, so pivot closer to bore axis.
Thanks
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Like this? It's pricey but solid. I wouldn't use it for matches up close as there's no swivel to it, but for ELR is fantastic. LRA is another good option, though I've heard it's better suited to a beefier rifle like the HTI
I've run the LRA on an srs a few times. It's pretty nice. That wide footprint certainly has its advantages.
It's all I use on my HTI. Really nice in that capacity. Pretty much the current reigning champion of ELR bipods in my opinion. Though as you say, it isn't very easy to deal with if speed is a concern, being that it has the locking cant and no panning.
It's all I use on my HTI. Really nice in that capacity. Pretty much the current reigning champion of ELR bipods in my opinion. Though as you say, it isn't very easy to deal with if speed is a concern, being that it has the locking cant and no panning.
I would think that a skilled machinist could create an rail adapter that could lock onto the rail on the bottom of the hardguard and allow a bipod setup like the TRD 42 / AI rifles.
That's what everyone seems to think so I guess I may need to fork out the $$$ for a mono-pod.
Anyone on here selling one at the good guy price?
There was a guy that posted one for sale yesterday or the day before. Search for it
A guy posted one for sale either yesterday or the day before from what I remember. Search for it
Sorry, I snagged the Gen2 FDE skins and monopod.
I spoke with Ryan at DTA earlier week, and they said they may have some though. They said they are doing some inventory work right now, and should know early next week.
Elite Iron Revolution, Expensive but effective and about as close to bore axis as you can get
Cool bipod. One question - does the bipod rotate around that ring allowing the rifle to cant?
Yes the bipod will rotate a full 360 oround the collar. There is a nut at the 6 oclock to set the tension of the bipod. Only disadvantages are price and weight, but after the first 8k and 21lbs. Its all kind of the same. It does provide a rock steady position.
Yes it can and has been done. I reality you're better off making or getting made an adapter to go from the 3/4-24 to whatever smaller thread you want. Bigger is better and one reason the DT Guys put the larger thread on the barrel to begin with. The closer you cut to the bore diameter the more the steel in the barrel relieves which opens up the bore diameter. Better quality barrels don't always have this problem. On the other hand I have seen barrel where the copper fouling present in most of the bore is absent from the last half inch or so of the bore. This is because the bore has opened up in the place you least want it to. Choke at the muzzle is not a bad thing but swell is. Despite this issue there are a lot of guys who figured it was cheaper to have the barrel turned down and threaded for their existing can than to have the can use an adapter or opening up the can to the larger diameter. Not a lot of negative feedback has been seen so they must not be having much trouble. DT has been using top quality blanks for their barrels and that is probably why. So the answer to your question is have at it if you want. It's your rifle after all.
Frank
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Ummmm.... yeaaaaahhhh. I know what will be in my safe when it's available!
Anyone know much about the conversion kits and accuracy?
I'm absolutely happy with my new dta this is the best group I've ever had at 300yds with any of my guns. This was my second group through the dta at 300 6.5cm
21 lbs? holly hanna.... the 8k part I get - I'm already there but without your uber bipod (I'm using an atlas)
great group!
I had a similar feeling first time out - factory 140 amax. 3rd 5 round group after sight in netted a 0.19" @ 100 yards. I haven't duplicated that yet, but I've had 5 shot groups under 0.3" @ 100 yards with both 120 & 140 hornady ammo. now that my permanent scope is here & mounted I'll get out to 200/300/400/600 weekend after next.
I'm amazed with the out-of-the box accuracy.
I had a similar feeling first time out - factory 140 amax. 3rd 5 round group after sight in netted a 0.19" @ 100 yards. I haven't duplicated that yet, but I've had 5 shot groups under 0.3" @ 100 yards with both 120 & 140 hornady ammo. now that my permanent scope is here & mounted I'll get out to 200/300/400/600 weekend after next.
I'm amazed with the out-of-the box accuracy.
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Considering upgrading to a Spuhr mount only because I'm not 100% happy with the location of my ring mounted red dot. Anyone using a Spuhr mount and a Premier 5-25x56 with tennabraex covers? If so what model? Thanks!
Great price on a set of monopod cut skins!!
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...kins-factory-cut-monopod-$75-shipped-obo.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...kins-factory-cut-monopod-$75-shipped-obo.html
We do not have any bolt heads in stock, but we have bolts.
The cost savings between a full bolt and a bolt head is only about $100, and considering there are only 3 bolts available, the overall cost for bolts during the life of the system is very small. Most go the route of a full bolt rather than bolt head for this reason.
I'll keep my eyes open for a bolt head if you are determined to go that route however!
Anyone know the height of DTA's mounts? The FAQ says the height from the cheek weld to the center of the scope 1.52". I'm trying to match this to a Spuhr mount which have heights of 1.18", 1.46" & 1.5". Looking to find out which one more closely matches the height of DTA's mounts so I don't have to mess with my comb height on my Gen 2. Thanks!
