Officially a New Reloader of 308. I have some questions

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SOE_technician

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Sep 30, 2013
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#1
HEllo SH ,
Happy holidays to all yall fellas. Well I just got my new workbench and RCBS Supplies and a box of 155AMAX rounds to take my plunge into the reloading world!! I am excited but a bit apprehensive as well. I have been very meticulous in my case prep of 60 cases(once fired FGMM) and have come to charging them and to seating rounds. I used a Max OAL gauge (Hornady) and is a 2.822.

So I need to set my seeting Die and I am going to go with a 2.799 or 2.800. Tips? Wisdom ? Tell me stuff!!!

However, my main question has come from shooting over the holidays I bought a couple boxes of Hornady 168 BTHP match and the first box I noticed the bolt was snug to close but did and shot very well as always out of my Savage 10. But the second box I can not close my bolt and must REALLY pull the bolt to get it out. ??? I dont get why my other boxes of Black Hills 178 Amax and 175 FGMM I have they go in smooth and out no prob but all the rounds in that box will not work? I just dont want that to happen in my reloads and cost time and alot of frustration...

Here's a pic of my Chrismas present!! Bench and Accessories I know it is not TOP notch but I just graduated college a Wk ago im not a Baller yet.
Screen Shot 2013-12-28 at 10.29.23 PM.jpg
 
#2
Can't explain the tight fit on the factory loads. Maybe you need to clean the chamber.

You will get very frustrated if you use the bullet tip for OAL measurements. You need a bullet comparator to get consistent spacing off the lands as measured off the bullet ogive.

Why so short, why not go recommended OAL?
 
#3
DEFINITELY go with the bullet comparator. I spent my first few months chasing the OAL measurement up and down.. VERY frustrating.. The Bullet Comparator went a long way towards reducing my stress ulcers.. :)

About your bolt being hard to close / extract? I have a Savage .308 also, and I've had the same problem once or twice.. Sometimes, in the same box of bullets, some would be fine, and others would be hard to close / extract.. I found out that it was variation in the bullet case. The case diameter was just a hair too big at the base of the cartridge for my chamber. I took the bullet apart, ran it through my sizing die, and put it back together, and it chambered / fired / extracted just fine.. Use your micrometer / calipers to measure the diameter of the trouble cartridge close to the base, and them measure the diameter of a fired cartridge.
 
#4
You could try coloring a sticky case with a sharpie, chamber and extract it, see where it is making contact, measure with a mic and compare with a case that does not stick. Once you find out where the problem is you can address it.
 
#5
First step with any sticky extraction with factory ammo is to check the chamber for any crud. You could have something as simple as a carbon ring buildup in the front of the chamber neck area. Use a larger bore brush (50 cal works great) and twist it into the chamber. If will clean any stuck crap out of the first part, up to the shoulder. Then take a 35 cal bore brush and do likewise in the neck area. Use some bore cleaner on the brushes and let them sit. Then clean the entire chamber with a large mop. If you don't have a mop that fits the chamber tight, just wrap a brush with patches until you have a snug fit and rotate in the chamber. If they come out black you aren't finished. Some rifles will accumulate a hard carbon ring that forms between the end of the case and the "second shoulder" at the end of the chamber. You may have to put a patch wetted with some good carbon solvent (Slip 2000, etc) and let it soak for a while in order to clean it out. A case, when fired, can extend over this ring which then pinches the bullet. Pressures rise above normal and the case can expand excessively, thus sticking. Look at the case head for ejector marks (the half moon mark at the edge of the case head) or primers that look like they were melted then poured into the pockets with little or no margin where they meet the brass.

Just because a load is "Factory" doesn't mean you can't have conditions that cause high pressure in your rifle. Sticky extraction is one sign of high pressure. Dirt and crud where it doesn't belong can be a cause.
 
#6
flashhole said:
Can't explain the tight fit on the factory loads. Maybe you need to clean the chamber.

You will get very frustrated if you use the bullet tip for OAL measurements. You need a bullet comparator to get consistent spacing off the lands as measured off the bullet ogive.

Why so short, why not go recommended OAL?
Click to expand...


So Short? Please expain I went with 2.800 because it is what is recommended in the Nosler 7th edition? The max is 2.810. right? Not saying your wrong at all I am new as someone gets a relaoding so I want correction if needed
 
#7
Load to mag length. The 155 does not have a lot of bullet shank to work with anyhow. 2.8" is good.

Why are Hornady factory loads sticking? Dunno. Likely a QC problem. Unrelated, but I recently reloaded a bunch of Hornady 9mm some of which had insufficient neck tension. I miked the offending loaded rounds and they were .006" undersize. That's right. The case walls were too thin. In your case, the case walls might be too thick, or the case body too long or fat, or the bullet shank too long and this is causing the round to wedge in the chamber.
 
#8
I assume the Hornady is the AMAX bullet. Don't know because I do not use Hornady products. If their data says 2.822" OAL why would you make it shorter? A lot of accuracy can be lost in .022". The two things you want to look for when selecting an OAL are: 1) does it fit in the magazine? 2) does it jamb into the lands? Being in the lands will cause pressure to spike in a hurry. You need a bit of jump and many rifles benefit with improved accuracy with a small gap. My bolt rifles have between .005" and .010" gap from bullet ogive to barrel lands. In some cases my chosen/best accuracy OAL is longer than published OAL data but they are not so long as to not fit in the magazine.

Use the OCW method to determine charge weight/range based on published OAL data for the bullet you are shooting then play with the seating depth to fine tune accuracy.
 
#10
flashhole said:
I assume the Hornady is the AMAX bullet. Don't know because I do not use Hornady products. If their data says 2.822" OAL why would you make it shorter? A lot of accuracy can be lost in .022". The two things you want to look for when selecting an OAL are: 1) does it fit in the magazine? 2) does it jamb into the lands? Being in the lands will cause pressure to spike in a hurry. You need a bit of jump and many rifles benefit with improved accuracy with a small gap. My bolt rifles have between .005" and .010" gap from bullet ogive to barrel lands. In some cases my chosen/best accuracy OAL is longer than published OAL data but they are not so long as to not fit in the magazine.Use the OCW method to determine charge weight/range based on published OAL data for the bullet you are shooting then play with the seating depth to fine tune accuracy./QUOTE]

Yes I am using 155 AMAX as i stated, And 2.822 is the Max OAL With the Hornady tool not their advised OAL
Use the OCW method to determine charge weight/range based on published OAL data for the bullet you are shooting then play with the seating depth to fine tune accuracy.
Click to expand...
 
#11
flashhole said:
I assume the Hornady is the AMAX bullet. Don't know because I do not use Hornady products. If their data says 2.822" OAL why would you make it shorter? A lot of accuracy can be lost in .022". The two things you want to look for when selecting an OAL are: 1) does it fit in the magazine? 2) does it jamb into the lands? Being in the lands will cause pressure to spike in a hurry. You need a bit of jump and many rifles benefit with improved accuracy with a small gap. My bolt rifles have between .005" and .010" gap from bullet ogive to barrel lands. In some cases my chosen/best accuracy OAL is longer than published OAL data but they are not so long as to not fit in the magazine.

Use the OCW method to determine charge weight/range based on published OAL data for the bullet you are shooting then play with the seating depth to fine tune accuracy.
Click to expand...

Yes I am using 155 AMAX as i stated, And 2.822 is the Max OAL With the Hornady tool not their advised OAL
Use the OCW method to determine charge weight/range based on published OAL data for the bullet you are shooting then play with the seating depth to fine tune accuracy.
 
#12
TNBLUERAIDER44 said:
So Short? Please expain I went with 2.800 because it is what is recommended in the Nosler 7th edition? The max is 2.810. right? Not saying your wrong at all I am new as someone gets a relaoding so I want correction if needed
Click to expand...

In my Rem SPSS I seat the 155AMAXs to an OAL of 2.850", and they shoot .5MOA out to 300yds like that, almost .100" from the lands but it shoots, and of course please try 47grs RE15 with this bullet.
 
#14
JGorski said:
In my Rem SPSS I seat the 155AMAXs to an OAL of 2.850", and they shoot .5MOA out to 300yds like that, almost .100" from the lands but it shoots, and of course please try 47grs RE15 with this bullet.
Click to expand...

Question also ? So when I got to 45.5 grains my cases looked so full at 47 isn't it really full lol jw I kno it's prolly a newbie thing to say. But I am just so nervous about making my own lol don't wanna screw up my rifle or me
 
#15
JGorski said:
In my Rem SPSS I seat the 155AMAXs to an OAL of 2.850", and they shoot .5MOA out to 300yds like that, almost .100" from the lands but it shoots, and of course please try 47grs RE15 with this bullet.
Click to expand...

Remington has such a long freebore/throat that it one might just as well shoot something that will fit the magazine. I quit trying to "reach the lands" on my old 5-R and when I gave up, going to a 2.800" OAL, my groups dropped to sub 1/2 MOA.

TNBLUERAIDER44 said:
Question also ? So when I got to 45.5 grains my cases looked so full at 47 isn't it really full lol jw I kno it's prolly a newbie thing to say. But I am just so nervous about making my own lol don't wanna screw up my rifle or me
Click to expand...

Depending on the type of powder you're using you may need to resort to a "drop tube" or even a method of vibrating the powder down into the case before trying to seat a bullet. I use a 4" Drop Tube when loading stick powders like Varget, IMR4064, H-4895, etc. The "tube" allows the granules to fill the case from the bottom up and leaving more room for the bullet to be seated. Some reloaders will just have their vibrator/tumbler turned on and when they've added the powder, they put a finger or thumb over the case mouth, touch the case head to the center of the vibrator lid and shake the powder down. Some just tap the case on the counter top, again with the finger/thumb covering the case mouth. If you're using a ball powder, something like CFE223, it settles pretty much on it's own and you don't have to use a drop tube or vibration.

Something else you'll learn over time is how fired cases that are merely neck sized will have more room in them for powder. A load that makes a case look full when F/L sized will have a lower powder level when just neck sized. This is why you can often see powder weights that make no sense with your Full Length Sized cases.
 
#16
TNBLUERAIDER44 said:
Question also ? So when I got to 45.5 grains my cases looked so full at 47 isn't it really full lol jw I kno it's prolly a newbie thing to say. But I am just so nervous about making my own lol don't wanna screw up my rifle or me
Click to expand...

My 155's are run with 45.0 grains of IMR 4064 as well.. And yes, it is a compressed load. IMR 4064 have some pretty long sticks, and they dont meter well at all. But if you tap the shell on the table a couple times, it settles the powder a bit, but its still going to be compressed... When I was testing, I worked it up as high as 47.0gr IMR 4064 before I backed off, so I know how full the cartridge is.. But honestly, the 155 shoots like crap when loaded that hot..
 
#17
I have a Savage 10fp that I load short of the "standard" 2.8. Somewhat common for some of the Savage models. Rifle still shoots fine and I get plenty of velocity. Don't get hung up on having to bump your rounds back a little.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
#20
TNBLUERAIDER44 said:
Question also ? So when I got to 45.5 grains my cases looked so full at 47 isn't it really full lol jw I kno it's prolly a newbie thing to say. But I am just so nervous about making my own lol don't wanna screw up my rifle or me
Click to expand...

OK, you're using the heavier fed brass which is close to lapua in weight, when I did shoot these bullets in lapua I dropped the load/charge to 45.5grs, try that, still shoots .5moa. Was using Win brass with the 47grs RE15. Yeah, if it dont shoot with that load it wont shoot.:)
 
#21
Thanks for all the input!!! Hearing from you guys makes me feel a lot better . Just got back from the range doing a OCW test from 43.5-45.5 conservative I know but was my first 20 rounds ever reloaded so in was edgy.
 
#23
Here are a couple of back to back groups at 300yds, Ive shot slightly smaller groups but this is more of an average of what my rifle does with the 155s.
<a href="http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/JGorski80/media/2011-11-14-14486.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k513/JGorski80/2011-11-14-14486.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2011-11-14-14486.jpg"/></a>
 
#24
flashhole said:
Congratulations and welcome to the addiction. Well how did it go?
Click to expand...

Well I was truly unsure and I wont lie a bit nervous about pulling the trigger on cartridges I had loaded myself. But Here are some pics. the bored labeled factory loads ..well obviously I was shooting factory lol. and I was a .3MRAD low at first but adjusted after 3 low groups. I did have some flyers (marked by X)which I knew were me when I did them and I am going to blame myself and not liking to shoot off concrete benches i much prefer prone on ground which this range doesn't have. The factory groups weren't bad so I went o to my handloadsDSC00949.jpg

The board with my loads are marked by grain wt and max spread of each group I shot all of these with a front sandbag and as with the first marked flyers by an X

43.5 I only made 2 rounds since it was my starting point. then shot 3 of each of the other unless i had a flyer which I had 2 spare of each for just such an occasion of me Effing up my data haha.
To me looks like a decent load on 44 grains and 44.5 . Let me know what ya think .. Take it easy on this new guy These groups aint anything to right home about but I know I will improve. DSC00948.jpg
 
#25
Looks like you are on your way. If you want to find your max length it is simple, seat a bullet very long in a dummy round (no primer), use a sharpie to mark it. chamber, and see if it leaves rifling marks. Seat longer until it does. adjust your seater until you find zero, where it just touches. Save that dummy, you will need to do this with any different bullet you try in your rifle. I try to start about .020 short of zero. Of course, these might not fit your magazine. Your rifle may like them a lot shorter or longer, into the lands.
 
#26
Hey SH,
So I am prepping some brass and I have no idea how but 7 of the cases as i was going back measuring came out right at 2.015 and couple 2.014 and 2.016..... sooo in my Nosler manual is says for case length 2.015 soo My question is are these unsafe to load? I ask because I already primed them only 6 primers lost if i cant used them but just wondering. Let me know Guys I need your experience and knowledge
 
#30
guess i can try them and see @ 918v but thanks for the imput for real... [MENTION=93224]witchhunter[/MENTION] i was afraid to deprime them cause how crucial primer ignition is if have a rod push into the cup area would mess it up.
 
#31
918v said:
Load to mag length. The 155 does not have a lot of bullet shank to work with anyhow. 2.8" is good.

Why are Hornady factory loads sticking? Dunno. Likely a QC problem. Unrelated, but I recently reloaded a bunch of Hornady 9mm some of which had insufficient neck tension. I miked the offending loaded rounds and they were .006" undersize. That's right. The case walls were too thin. In your case, the case walls might be too thick, or the case body too long or fat, or the bullet shank too long and this is causing the round to wedge in the chamber.
Click to expand...

For AI mags, mag length is about 2.90". My 155s load out to about 2.87 or so.
 
#33
918v said:
They are fine. Your chamber will prolly take them alot longer without issues. I would let them grow to see just how long your chamber is. My Remmy was 2.050" long.
Click to expand...

So loading them isn't a Danger to myself or my rifle even though the cases are right or just above the Nosler suggested 2.015 case length? I just have fear of the unknown due to my inexperience and lack of other to speak with on the matter personally.
 
#34
No, not a danger. They'll grow about .005" per firing. Mark the case mouth with a sharpee and check for binding when you close the bolt on an empty, sized case.
 
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