Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

[duotone]

When I bought my first .22 a few weeks ago for my son and I to enjoy, little did I know the addiction that you all have fallen to. Now that I understand that with little effort, I too can fall victim to the temptations of pouring $$$$ into this addiction with little effort.

So, with the wise counsel of my wife (who had guns way before I ever saw the light), I am taking a step back, breathe deeply, and ask for advise from fellow addicts and those who have been doing this longer than I have.

I have a Remington 597 (non sighted one with tapered barrel), with kit scope and bi-pod, and 30 round clip. It's also all black, so it's cool looking .

I only paid $180 at a black Friday sale, so I'm not out much cash, and my son (13) and I (43) really do love this rifle. But here's where things get sticky. I suffer from obsessive compulsive disorder. Which basically means I can't stop thinking about things I enjoy, and I want to go over board with these said things I enjoy.

I'm not wealthy, but I do like things done right. I bought the Remington 597 because I liked the fit, finish, and I've seen many positive reviews on these rifles. So far it's been nothing less than what I wanted, but now the visions of being a sniper have clouded my thoughts, and have made me wonder, "what if.....", which then led me to this site (curse you google).

HERE'S MY QUESTION: Based on what I have, what can I do to make this a shooter?
I want to work with what I've got before I start spending $100 on a tacticool stock, $350 on a barrel, etc.... So I'm thinking I'd start small, and get a decent 3-12 scope, and see what that does, then try different ammo, and work my way up as time goes on.

Here's my goal. I don't pretend to think I'll ever be a competitive match shooter, but I do want to have a cool looking rifle at the range, and to out shoot my brother, who also shoots a 22lr. I'd love to hold a 1" group at 50-65 yards, and who knows, perhaps I'll do that with what I've got....

Anyway, I would appreciate any thoughts you have that will get me started down the right path.

Tony

 

[johninok]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

put a mid range AO scope on it and see what it will do. I have found that adjusting for parallax error is paramount in shooting groups with a rimfire, and decent ammo, have had good luck with wolfMT.

 

[Topstrap]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Welcome to Snipers Hide and the "addiction". First I think it's great that you found something that you and your son can enjoy and learn to become proficient together. Second I think you picked a really good caliber to start with. Some long range wanna-be shooters snub their noses at the lowly 22LR but it's an excellent cartridge to learn with. The same principles apply but at distances and a price that makes it easier for most to get in a lot of quality range time.

Not sure what you have at the moment but a good set of sand bags and or front rest and or a bi-pod should be high on your list. I'd probably look at one of the SWFA fixed power scopes and probably something in the 16X range. It'll have lots of travel so you can stretch that 22 out and also a scope you can move to a centerfire when you upgrade a bit. They are pretty reasonable and are very well made.

It's easy to get caught up in the "the more I buy and spend the better I'm going to shoot" theory but more than often for a new shooter that isn't the case. You do need to have confidence in your equipment though since it's easy to blame misses or bad shooting on the tools instead of who is using them. Plenty of really good shooters use pretty common stuff and kick butt on a lot of better equipped competitors.

A really good target is the 22 BR target with 25 separate targets on it and practice one shot at each target. Start out close up and move back as you feel it's getting too easy. Experiment with different types of ammo, guns don't know or care what the ammo costs you're stuffing in it but it'll tell you which one it likes with the groups. Some like cheap bulk, others like the high end stuff. Experiment and find what yours prefers. Also one last tip that I have found but others argue with. Don't clean it, all of my rim fires shoot way better dirty, but... when you are experimenting with different types of ammo you'll find that each type needs to foul the barrel with it's own lubricant before they start settling down to give you an honest grouping to see how they do.

They can be fussy but they are also way underrated by some as to their potential and how far they can shoot accurately. We're trying to get our local long distance range to put on some 22LR matches next summer with targets out to 400 yards.

Fill in your profile with your location and I'm sure there will be someone in your area that will be more than happy to get you and your son up and running with some helpful tips.

Topstrap

 

[Cascade Precision]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

+1 with Topstrap.

22lr will shoot 300+ yards. I regularly shoot 300 yards with my 22lr. At first, people are saying, "Why setting your target up at 300 yards? It is just a 22..." then, when I can hit 300 yards with my 22, and they can not with their centerfire, I feel proud of myself.

Being a new shooter, focus on good shooting fundamentals (both you and your son). Following good shooting fundamentals will get you where you want to go with shooting. The fundamentals will carry over to other firearms as well.

Good fundamentals:
Sight alignment ( a little easier with a scope, but don't forget to learn iron sights)
Sight picture (your sights lined up exactly where you want to put your bullet)
Breathing
Trigger squeeze/press
Trigger reset
Recoil management (still important with the mighty 22lr)
Consistent cheek weld

(I am not sorry about this last part)
Please teach (and learn to live by) the 4 rules on firearms
1. All guns are always loaded
2. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger till you are on your target
3. Know your target, what is behind of your target as well as what is in front of your target
4. Never point your firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy

Sometimes I sound like a preacher, but these rules need to be known and rehearsed regularly.

Jason

 

[duotone]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

ogreshooter, thanks for the 4 points and will do.

At this point I'm leaning towards this:
1: Learn to shoot better
2: New quality 4-16 scope with AO
3: Replace the trigger assembly
4: Replace the barrel
5: Replace the stock

I figure after the modifications I'll have about $500 + 180 for the rifle, and I figure this will be the gun I'll keep, and my son will keep for a very long time. The enjoyment of making it custom for us + and the fun we have shooting + looking cool out shooting my brothers = Huge grin from ear to ear.

Cheers,

Tony

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

My advice:

1. Scope it out with a decent scope
2. Shoot the snot out of it until your skills catch up to the gun
3. Remove the scope
4. Sell the gun
5. Buy a better starting point to keep up with the skills you have developed
6. Put your scope on that
7. Shoot the snot out of it

 

[mountainman308]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Tony, welcome to the hide. I started out at about your son's age and have been hooked solid ever since. It is a lifelong sport that the two of you will enjoy. Before you drop any money on parts, maybe a little training will get you to where you want to be for less. When I first started out, my fundamentals sucked and I was minute of pizza box at 100 yds. Then I got some time with an instructor as my 15th birthday present (along with a Winchester 22 lever gun) and I dropped down to 3/4 inch groups at 50 yards. Then I upgraded my gun with better sights and a trigger. Now I/m 1/2 inch at 50 all day long. You should go to the NRA website and look at their list of NRA trainers in your area. If you are near Harpers Ferry WV, I would be glad to help you, just PM me. If you are not, then the NRA website will point you in the right direction.

 

[mountainman308]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Tony, welcome to the hide. I started out at about your son's age and have been hooked solid ever since. It is a lifelong sport that the two of you will enjoy. Before you drop any money on parts, maybe a little training will get you to where you want to be for less. When I first started out, my fundamentals sucked and I was minute of pizza box at 100 yds. Then I got some time with an instructor as my 15th birthday present (along with a Winchester 22 lever gun) and I dropped down to 3/4 inch groups at 50 yards. Then I upgraded my gun with better sights and a trigger. Now I/m 1/2 inch at 50 all day long. You should go to the NRA website and look at their list of NRA trainers in your area. If you are near Harpers Ferry WV, I would be glad to help you, just PM me. If you are not, then the NRA website will point you in the right direction.

 

[Quark]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johninok</div><div class="ubbcode-body">put a mid range AO scope on it and see what it will do. I have found that adjusting for parallax error is paramount in shooting groups with a rimfire, and decent ammo, have had good luck with wolfMT. </div></div>

Can you provide a definition for "parallax error" ? I am assuming that an accurate sight picture is devoid of this ?

Thanks

Bill

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Incorrect.

The easiest way to demonstrate this is to set your parallax for 100-200 yards and then look through the scope at a target 40-50 yards away. Now keep the rifle stable and move your head up, down, side to side and you will see the crosshairs move on the target. Now, while still moving your head dial the parallax toward the proper setting and you can see the crosshairs start to stabilize. When they are rock solid; your parallax is correct.

If you have incorrect parallax you may think you have the same sight picture shot to shot, but in actuality you may be moving the point of aim by several inches without realizing it.

 

[Radar360]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Welcome to the Hide. I congratulate you to teaching your young son how to shoot and the importance of good marksmanship. And in taking time to do things with your son.

Safety trumps everything. Store all arms in a safe place where no one can gain assess or at least not use it without your supervision. I can't remember how often peer pressure, esp at that age, that makes one do something you never expect. So best to get at least a decent trigger lock for every gun you buy.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about changing stocks, triggers, or anything until you can consistent shoot it accurate. Accuracy (later precision) trumps tacticool. But pride in your firearm is essential also so I understand and you're in the right path.

The only modifications I would do are those things that can help improve accuracy. Hide members are good in sharing what they've done and what worked and what didn't do anything for accuracy.

Have fun!

 

[shooter65]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Pretty much everyone has summed it up. Get a decent scope and learn the fundamentals. Be safe and have fun.

 

[duotone]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Thanks all for your feedback.... I have learned a lot! I've learned that shooting has much more to do with things outside of "pulling the trigger". A monkey can pull a trigger, but it takes much more than a simple pull. Of course, the proper equipment helps, but I will start with learning how to pull the trigger before I start spending money.

Thanks

Tony

 

[WhiteHorze]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

1) replace barrel - no
2) replace stock - no
3) spend $500 on parts - no

Savage 93 at walmart - $ 200
Tasco 4x16 at walmart - $ 100

$300 on ammo - yes

Having competitions to see who does the dishes that week - priceless.

 

[duotone]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Here's my setup. My next thing will be to learn how to shoot it.

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

And don't shy away from becoming a competitive match shooter because we have a fun one right here in this section. You don't need a fancy rifle.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3787208#Post3787208

It's fun and it does give you something to practice about. We'd love to have you (and your son!).

 

[Sprayed99]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: duotone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's my setup. My next thing will be to learn how to shoot it.

</div></div>

Just an observation.. you might want to consider lower rings. Proper check weld looks to be a bitch currently.

 

[duotone]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Thanks for the tip on the lower ring thing... I'm a newbie, so any advise is appreciated.... I'm not too concerned as I'll be swapping out the stock eventually to a boyd's

Meanwhile, where can I find those things that I can place on the butt of my stock to raise my cheek? I can't seem to find them again.

 

[duotone]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

This sounds like a great time... thanks.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

my CZ452 Silhouette will shoot one ragged hole at 100yds. And I havent done anything to it except mount a zeiss scope. Youd be suprised how accurate some of the 22LRs are. Shoot the hell out of it and see what it does before you do things you dont need to.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

OP,
Read the above post again, it says much in a few words.

 

[Sprayed99]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: duotone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the tip on the lower ring thing... I'm a newbie, so any advise is appreciated.... I'm not too concerned as I'll be swapping out the stock eventually to a boyd's

Meanwhile, where can I find those things that I can place on the butt of my stock to raise my cheek? I can't seem to find them again. </div></div>

Going to a boyds stock isnt going to help much. stock packs can be found at triadtactical.com

Also the best money I have spent on my 10/22 was the trigger.

Shot pretty good at 100yds...

 

[Triad]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Looks like you shot your Micrometer........

 

[Sprayed99]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like you shot your Micrometer........ </div></div>

LOL... no the damn thing fell off the bench and the asswipe next to me stepped on it.... good thing it wasn't my Starret.... I would have been PISSED!!!

 

[duotone]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

WOW! Guys... thank you for the check rest suggestion!

I made my own with foam and duct tape to see what difference it would make, and it makes a huge difference.

Off the bench with bi-pods // bulk remington gold // 3 flyers and the center is dime size. I just need to fine tune my home brew cheek rest!

 

[duotone]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Thanks again for the suggestion on a better cheek rest.

Ok, here is where it stands.

I painted the stock a flat black, which turned out very nice, and I built up a cheek rest with some foam padding, which I formed to fit my face. After I finished that, I taped it with Gorilla tape so it wouldn't move, and then I found an old knee support to wrap it up.

All-in-all, I'm happy with it, but final results will be determined on how I shoot with it. I plan to shoot Wed with my son.

Additionally, I lost my bolt handle. I flew out while shooting and I never found it. So, I found an old allen wrench of the same width, and then I ground it flat to fit the receiver. I also dremmel'd a notch on the bottom so it snapped in better. This ain't going to fly out like the poorly designed factory one.

 

[hydro556]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

LOL, damn. I'd call Remington and have them replace the handle, as that shit shouldnt happen on any rifle, much less a new one.

Even if you like your field expedient solution, I would at least shorten up before you hang it on something.

Enjoy your shooting and thanks for recruiting the youngster. If nothing else it will show him that guns arent evil like pop culture and the education system tries to teach them. Good luck.

 

[Dick D]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Don't skimp on the optics, you can always put them on another rifle as you move up someday. If you are into photography you will have already figured out that you will get better pictures with a $200 camera and an $800 lens than you will with an $800 camera and a $200 lens.
Personally I wouldn't spend a lot of money on new stocks and barrels for your rifle. Put a good scope on it and play with different ammo and shooting techniques until your accuracy seems to max out. Then if you want more, sell the Rem or give it to the boy and buy a semi-target rifle like an Anschutz 64 MRP, one of the CZ's or an older lightly used Sako 94 Finnfire or Remington 541-T.

 

[duotone]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dick Davis</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Don't skimp on the optics, you can always put them on another rifle as you move up someday. If you are into photography you will have already figured out that you will get better pictures with a $200 camera and an $800 lens than you will with an $800 camera and a $200 lens.
Personally I wouldn't spend a lot of money on new stocks and barrels for your rifle. Put a good scope on it and play with different ammo and shooting techniques until your accuracy seems to max out. Then if you want more, sell the Rem or give it to the boy and buy a semi-target rifle like an Anschutz 64 MRP, one of the CZ's or an older lightly used Sako 94 Finnfire or Remington 541-T. </div></div>

Ahhhh.... Dick, you are speaking my language. I would never fit a cheap lens to my 6D's. I'm going to shoot what I've got and find the ammo my rifle likes, shoot 1,000's of rounds throughout the year and see about upgrading in the fall.

Went out tonight and only had some federal bulks, which my son's 597 was nailing the bull's eye, but mine was spraying them all over...

 

[peaceatwar]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Welcome to the sport! I love shooting .22 its rewarding and cheap and when its windy its great practice for the big centerfire calibers.

My recommendation is to keep what you have on that .22 and consider a Savage Mark II TR. Comes in an excellent stock, put a nice Adjustable objective scope on it and you are good to go. I have shot mine out to 300 yards without issue. That may be money better spent then upgrading your current rifle. Mine came from the factory with a fluted heavy barrel.

 

[Dick D]

Re: Ok... before I spend another penny... step back...

Every .22 will have it's own ammo preferences, and finding one box of 10 or 15 or 20 different kinds to try can be a problem these days.
In the back of one of my gun safes I have two identical High Standard 5.5" Victors bought new about 6 months apart (serial numbers are about 300 apart) from my ex-wife and my small bore silhoutte days 30 years ago. One has to have Ely Black Box to keep groups under 2" at 50 yds out of my old Ransom pistol rest and the other one will keep the same little 1.5" groups with Federal Lighting bulk pack. Guess which one got shot the most?

 

[duotone]

I really appreciate everybody's replies. Seems every time I / we go out, we learn more about little things which make a big difference.

Here's our new set ups

Like father (right)... Like son (left).

Son's with new scope... And the lit reticle is the actual reticle...

Mine with new scope:

As of right now, my son and I are just trying to refine our breathing, and such. My son doesn't care about it as much as I do, and he keeps telling me that his gun is fine, but I can't help but add things here and there. Next I'm going to put a check rest on his....

 

[CastleRocker]

Good for you guys!!! It's so refreshing to see someone not get caught up in the "arms race" when it comes to shooting. The only thing I have to add is; if there is any competitions close by, don't hesitate to go shoot in them. There should be a division for newer shooters in the rimfire class. I've shot competition off and on for 30 years and (for the most part), your fellow competitors will give you a LOT of really good advice if they know you are new and are there to try to learn some of the finer points. The only time I've ever had a Perazzi shotgun (which was worth way more than the truck I drove at the time!) in my hands was at a trap shoot many years ago. A really nice old guy was giving some of us kids pointers and let us each shoot a round with his shotgun while he gave instruction. I learned more about what I was doing right and wrong in an hour listening to him that in any time before or since. Same in metallic silhouette, IPSC, and F-class. Like I said, don't hesitate to go compete.