Ok Muppets. Even after decades of shooting, I'm still evolving.

[TheGerman]

Have been shooting a metric ton as well as training a lot of people over the last months. Day. Night. In 115 degrees. Sand storm. Rain and mud. Whatever.

While I haven't picked up some weird Jedi trick or anything, something hit me the other day that stuck with me for a bit and had me rethink something. It's something that I had already done years ago, to an extent, when deployed while carrying a Mk12.

As most of you know, the Mk12 is an 18 inch heavy barrel SPR. Basically a 18 inch HBAR 'carbine' with an optic on it. Given that issued weapons can range from 10.3 all the way up to a 20 inch A4, the 18 inch barrel on these wasn't some crazy long length. We 'adopted' the Mk12 to be used as basically a regular carbine by carrying a pouch for the suppressor, adding a MRDS on the top of the optic which put it at basically the height of modern RDS risers and even would take the QD bipod off the gun until it was needed. This gave you a 18 inch gun that while not as light as a Mk18 or shorter variants, was still capable as a 'carbine' and removed a lot of the downsides you have with larger, longer, heavier precision specific weapons. I've cleared structures with a stripped down Mk12Mod1 and Insight MRDS on it. I'd do it again tomorrow if I had to.

So this got me thinking about the 11.5 carbine I use 99.8% of the time with a suppressor on it. Let's look at the benefits of having that suppressor on it and then I'll tell you where we're going with this:

- Quieter (duh)
- Slightly faster muzzle velocity; in reality, looking at the terminal ballistics threshold on M193, I'm getting ~4 extra yards from the added velocity. Not life changing.
- Less/better environmental disturbance (kicking less dirt up off of things when shooting, etc)
- Significant flash suppression at night

That's about it.

The cons:

- It's heavier
- Changes center of gravity
- It's the length of a 16 inch carbine with the suppressor attached
- Possibility for gas issues
- Dirty
- No recoil dampening / negates any benefit from a quality brake

I've determined that for a carbine (not talking about precision guns here!), suppressors are basically only really useful (other than if you're shooting alone or just dicking around) for night time shooting due to the sound reduction and primarily, due to the superior flash suppression.

But..but..its quieter!?!

Right.

But it's not like its a fart in the wind quiet, and I'm already wearing electronic ear pro with comms attached so being able to fire the weapon without hearing protection is moot. The gun is lighter and faster. My MAMS brake gives me the recoil of a 22LR and has allowed for much faster weapon presentation and rounds on target. Any 'loss' of terminal ballistics due to the negligible loss in FPS at the muzzle is not even measurable. The only real con is 'its loud' ; see: Everyone is wearing Peltors or an AMP headset anyways. Plus if you're using sidearms and/or going inside structures, you're using already using headsets anyways.

Take that suppressor off during the day time as it's not helping shit. Stow it in the zip on panel on your carrier. Bring that bitch out when you go to grab your PVS31 insert when the sun starts going on.

Fight me.

 

[alamo5000]

I have zero tactical ninja experience but for me the primary reason I bought suppressors was so that I can shoot more and piss everyone off less. Plus we do have pets. With the suppressors basically I can shoot a whole lot more without worry. Pretty much the neighbors have been good forever so I am trying to be considerate and the dogs don't quiver in the corner when I do my thing anymore.

Hence I leave my cans on the rifles pretty much 100% of the time.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Have been shooting a metric ton as well as training a lot of people over the last months. Day. Night. In 115 degrees. Sand storm. Rain and mud. Whatever.

While I haven't picked up some weird Jedi trick or anything, something hit me the other day that stuck with me for a bit and had me rethink something. It's something that I had already done years ago, to an extent, when deployed while carrying a Mk12.

As most of you know, the Mk12 is an 18 inch heavy barrel SPR. Basically a 18 inch HBAR 'carbine' with an optic on it. Given that issued weapons can range from 10.3 all the way up to a 20 inch A4, the 18 inch barrel on these wasn't some crazy long length. We 'adopted' the Mk12 to be used as basically a regular carbine by carrying a pouch for the suppressor, adding a MRDS on the top of the optic which put it at basically the height of modern RDS risers and even would take the QD bipod off the gun until it was needed. This gave you a 18 inch gun that while not as light as a Mk18 or shorter variants, was still capable as a 'carbine' and removed a lot of the downsides you have with larger, longer, heavier precision specific weapons. I've cleared structures with a stripped down Mk12Mod1 and Insight MRDS on it. I'd do it again tomorrow if I had to.

So this got me thinking about the 11.5 carbine I use 99.8% of the time with a suppressor on it. Let's look at the benefits of having that suppressor on it and then I'll tell you where we're going with this:

- Quieter (duh)
- Slightly faster muzzle velocity; in reality, looking at the terminal ballistics threshold on M193, I'm getting ~4 extra yards from the added velocity. Not life changing.
- Less/better environmental disturbance (kicking less dirt up off of things when shooting, etc)
- Significant flash suppression at night

That's about it.

The cons:

- It's heavier
- Changes center of gravity
- It's the length of a 16 inch carbine with the suppressor attached
- Possibility for gas issues
- Dirty
- No recoil dampening / negates any benefit from a quality brake

I've determined that for a carbine (not talking about precision guns here!), suppressors are basically only really useful (other than if you're shooting alone or just dicking around) for night time shooting due to the sound reduction and primarily, due to the superior flash suppression.

But..but..its quieter!?!

Right.

But it's not like its a fart in the wind quiet, and I'm already wearing electronic ear pro with comms attached so being able to fire the weapon without hearing protection is moot. The gun is lighter and faster. My MAMS brake gives me the recoil of a 22LR and has allowed for much faster weapon presentation and rounds on target. Any 'loss' of terminal ballistics due to the negligible loss in FPS at the muzzle is not even measurable. The only real con is 'its loud' ; see: Everyone is wearing Peltors or an AMP headset anyways. Plus if you're using sidearms and/or going inside structures, you're using already using headsets anyways.

Take that suppressor off during the day time as it's not helping shit. Stow it in the zip on panel on your carrier. Bring that bitch out when you go to grab your PVS31 insert when the sun starts going on.

Fight me.

I'll add this:
I've always understood electronic earmuffs were used more for comms with the added value of ear protection. So comms between the team or HQ were always part of the equation. Ear protection was a secondary value. Amplifying the environment with passive mics that shut down the high "impulse" sounds from weapons is another positive. I guess it's going to depend on what equipment you are using.
Running weapons suppressed was to reduce the signature of the op while in progress. One would really need to use sub-sonic ammo to make the best use of the suppressor. While it's not going to be the best ballistic choice so there could be a drawback in using sub-sonic. I'm not a ballistics expert so I can learn something.

Just $.02......

 

[Oryx]

Mission specific ... no need to fight. right tool for the right job .... kind of why the armed forces love the configurability.

 

[n2ishun]

I thought all that shit was kinda obvious ?

 

[Kadams1563]

Over looking at my 11.5 suppressed… the German said your useless. Lol

I keep mine suppressed so it only rings the ears a tiny bit instead of a whole lot. Shooting suppressed shorties does coke with a learning curve. Suppressor burns and melts everything within a mag or two. It’s nice though when your 11.5 doesn’t recoil and runs great with a suppressor. My 14.5 with just a brake is smooth too just depends on what you want to do with it.

 

[diggler1833]

By the time I retired, we still weren't using any kind of suppressor for general issue in line companies. I never got to experience any pros/cons regarding combat operations, or even live fire exercises where everyone was using one. So my perspective is limited to what I do now (hog control).

I have several friends that use suppressors on their pig rifles for thermal eradication at night. I still use a multi-chambered brake as it is the best way to keep my muzzle down during a rapid engagement (moot if you're using a 5.56 or 300BO, but once you get over about 1,500 Ft/lb energy it becomes more apparent).

The first time my one buddy cranked off a 6.5 Grendel round in an 18" barrel next to me while I watched him shoot a small boar, I was quite amazed at the volume of his report. I was glad that I had my ear pro on to say the least. I had another friend shoot a small hog another night, and within 60 seconds got a text from the landowner next to the property we were on, asking if I got anything. I did a Google maps check later, and that shot was 1.25+ miles from his house.

I agree that suppressors have benefits for sure. Shoot an 18" .308 at night with a three port brake and you become a one-man light show. Shoot that same rifle standing next to someone and you immediately become the asshole too. However, I don't think they are a one-size-fits-all solution for every shooting or hunting application.

 

[zeroz]

As muppets, another pro, and the biggest one, is that they look cool. Makes us think high speed even tho we're low. You need at least one muppet on the staff to help you think like a muppet, I mean that is your clientele. Lemme know when you're accepting apps. I'll show up with my PVS-14, 16" with a can and a bunch of other low speed gear to slow me down, even though I'm already slow enough.

 

[Makinchips208]

Have been shooting a metric ton as well as training a lot of people over the last months. Day. Night. In 115 degrees. Sand storm. Rain and mud. Whatever.

While I haven't picked up some weird Jedi trick or anything, something hit me the other day that stuck with me for a bit and had me rethink something. It's something that I had already done years ago, to an extent, when deployed while carrying a Mk12.

As most of you know, the Mk12 is an 18 inch heavy barrel SPR. Basically a 18 inch HBAR 'carbine' with an optic on it. Given that issued weapons can range from 10.3 all the way up to a 20 inch A4, the 18 inch barrel on these wasn't some crazy long length. We 'adopted' the Mk12 to be used as basically a regular carbine by carrying a pouch for the suppressor, adding a MRDS on the top of the optic which put it at basically the height of modern RDS risers and even would take the QD bipod off the gun until it was needed. This gave you a 18 inch gun that while not as light as a Mk18 or shorter variants, was still capable as a 'carbine' and removed a lot of the downsides you have with larger, longer, heavier precision specific weapons. I've cleared structures with a stripped down Mk12Mod1 and Insight MRDS on it. I'd do it again tomorrow if I had to.

So this got me thinking about the 11.5 carbine I use 99.8% of the time with a suppressor on it. Let's look at the benefits of having that suppressor on it and then I'll tell you where we're going with this:

- Quieter (duh)
- Slightly faster muzzle velocity; in reality, looking at the terminal ballistics threshold on M193, I'm getting ~4 extra yards from the added velocity. Not life changing.
- Less/better environmental disturbance (kicking less dirt up off of things when shooting, etc)
- Significant flash suppression at night

That's about it.

The cons:

- It's heavier
- Changes center of gravity
- It's the length of a 16 inch carbine with the suppressor attached
- Possibility for gas issues
- Dirty
- No recoil dampening / negates any benefit from a quality brake

I've determined that for a carbine (not talking about precision guns here!), suppressors are basically only really useful (other than if you're shooting alone or just dicking around) for night time shooting due to the sound reduction and primarily, due to the superior flash suppression.

But..but..its quieter!?!

Right.

But it's not like its a fart in the wind quiet, and I'm already wearing electronic ear pro with comms attached so being able to fire the weapon without hearing protection is moot. The gun is lighter and faster. My MAMS brake gives me the recoil of a 22LR and has allowed for much faster weapon presentation and rounds on target. Any 'loss' of terminal ballistics due to the negligible loss in FPS at the muzzle is not even measurable. The only real con is 'its loud' ; see: Everyone is wearing Peltors or an AMP headset anyways. Plus if you're using sidearms and/or going inside structures, you're using already using headsets anyways.

Take that suppressor off during the day time as it's not helping shit. Stow it in the zip on panel on your carrier. Bring that bitch out when you go to grab your PVS31 insert when the sun starts going on.

Fight me.

Sounds great! One thing I’ll add is I think you are coming closer to realizing that 15.5” barrel length is the perfect length.

 

[fdkay]

Well, as long as you're putting your kit together, don't forget this:

 

[Aaros143]

Trend here lately with a lot of people I work with is greatly reducing the size of the can. So yeah everyone is wearing ear pro with comms. But a surefire mini or warden helps keeps the blastiness down.

 

[CaptArab]

K cans on the 13.7/14.5s are king IMO.

The dominus K, surefire mini, even turbo k are all about the same length on a 14.5 as a 16" + flash hider without all the back pressure.

 

[acudaowner]

 

[Jgunner]

No love for a 12.5" Mid length? I know you are running factory ammo, but getting 3200 from 40 gr hand loads works well on 4 legged varmints. We did get 3500 the same cartridge on a 18" rifle length.

 

[hlee]

Definitely high drag here, but shooting a rifle inside a building- even with ear pro- sucks. A lot. Even more if the rifle has a brake. Even with plugs and muffs, a braked 300 BO will give me a headache at an indoor range in just a few shots.

Shooting supers without ear pro sucks. A lot. Even more so inside a building. We never had any ear pro when I was growing up. I am quite familiar with the world-muting ring that follows the report of a rifle.

The rifle I have chosen for HD is the length of a 16” carbine, but is suppressed. Touching it off inside will suck. A lot. But, a lot less than an unsuppressed rifle.

I’ve tried a suppressed rifle at a PRS match. It’s not for me. In that venue, there is no value in a suppressor over a brake. Except for the rare occasion when the match director throws in a stage shooting through a culvert. Then a suppressor is worth its weight and length.

The rifles I’ve carried during run and gun events are suppressed. The extra weight and length really isn’t a big hindrance in that environment, and it is worth it to be able to just run electronic muffs without secondary ear pro. But, beware the can at the end of a stage. That guy is hot.

The rifle I hunt with is suppressed, because I can.

 

[rlsmith1]

So I read this to say 11.5 master race may not have the 1,000 year reign it was hoping for?

I’m all seriousness, are you running a brake or flash hider on your carbine?

With where I’m at, the 13.9 / 14.5 + K can is the best setup for me. I get some velocity, save some weight and unsuppressed isn’t terrible. Sure house clearing would be no fun with an unsuppressed 556 but it’s been done before and I’d rather the capability to shoot a little further

 

[Namekagon]

Have been shooting a metric ton as well as training a lot of people over the last months. Day. Night. In 115 degrees. Sand storm. Rain and mud. Whatever.

While I haven't picked up some weird Jedi trick or anything, something hit me the other day that stuck with me for a bit and had me rethink something. It's something that I had already done years ago, to an extent, when deployed while carrying a Mk12.

As most of you know, the Mk12 is an 18 inch heavy barrel SPR. Basically a 18 inch HBAR 'carbine' with an optic on it. Given that issued weapons can range from 10.3 all the way up to a 20 inch A4, the 18 inch barrel on these wasn't some crazy long length. We 'adopted' the Mk12 to be used as basically a regular carbine by carrying a pouch for the suppressor, adding a MRDS on the top of the optic which put it at basically the height of modern RDS risers and even would take the QD bipod off the gun until it was needed. This gave you a 18 inch gun that while not as light as a Mk18 or shorter variants, was still capable as a 'carbine' and removed a lot of the downsides you have with larger, longer, heavier precision specific weapons. I've cleared structures with a stripped down Mk12Mod1 and Insight MRDS on it. I'd do it again tomorrow if I had to.

So this got me thinking about the 11.5 carbine I use 99.8% of the time with a suppressor on it. Let's look at the benefits of having that suppressor on it and then I'll tell you where we're going with this:

- Quieter (duh)
- Slightly faster muzzle velocity; in reality, looking at the terminal ballistics threshold on M193, I'm getting ~4 extra yards from the added velocity. Not life changing.
- Less/better environmental disturbance (kicking less dirt up off of things when shooting, etc)
- Significant flash suppression at night

That's about it.

The cons:

- It's heavier
- Changes center of gravity
- It's the length of a 16 inch carbine with the suppressor attached
- Possibility for gas issues
- Dirty
- No recoil dampening / negates any benefit from a quality brake

I've determined that for a carbine (not talking about precision guns here!), suppressors are basically only really useful (other than if you're shooting alone or just dicking around) for night time shooting due to the sound reduction and primarily, due to the superior flash suppression.

But..but..its quieter!?!

Right.

But it's not like its a fart in the wind quiet, and I'm already wearing electronic ear pro with comms attached so being able to fire the weapon without hearing protection is moot. The gun is lighter and faster. My MAMS brake gives me the recoil of a 22LR and has allowed for much faster weapon presentation and rounds on target. Any 'loss' of terminal ballistics due to the negligible loss in FPS at the muzzle is not even measurable. The only real con is 'its loud' ; see: Everyone is wearing Peltors or an AMP headset anyways. Plus if you're using sidearms and/or going inside structures, you're using already using headsets anyways.

Take that suppressor off during the day time as it's not helping shit. Stow it in the zip on panel on your carrier. Bring that bitch out when you go to grab your PVS31 insert when the sun starts going on.

Fight me.

So if you were grabbing the gun in the middle of the night to stop a home invasion (meaning no ear-pro) would you personally consider the sound suppression worth the trade-offs of having the suppressor on?

This is a question I have wrestled with lately. I love the compactness and quickness of my 11" with nothing on it, as I would have to clear about 4 rooms to get between my family and an intruder in a home invasion. Shooting it inside without muffs on would probably cause permanent damage, but at least I wouldn't be dead. The question is, could I also still be not dead, and able to hear, by using a suppressor.

 

[W54/XM-388]

So if you were grabbing the gun in the middle of the night to stop a home invasion (meaning no ear-pro) would you personally consider the sound suppression worth the trade-offs of having the suppressor on?

This is a question I have wrestled with lately. I love the compactness and quickness of my 11" with nothing on it, as I would have to clear about 4 rooms to get between my family and an intruder in a home invasion. Shooting it inside without muffs on would probably cause permanent damage, but at least I wouldn't be dead. The question is, could I also still be not dead, and able to hear, by using a suppressor.

After the first shot or two, inside with no hearing protection on are you going to have any hearing left to help you locate where other bad guys might be moving around?

 

[shields shtr]

By the time I retired, we still weren't using any kind of suppressor for general issue in line companies. I never got to experience any pros/cons regarding combat operations, or even live fire exercises where everyone was using one. So my perspective is limited to what I do now (hog control).

I have several friends that use suppressors on their pig rifles for thermal eradication at night. I still use a multi-chambered brake as it is the best way to keep my muzzle down during a rapid engagement (moot if you're using a 5.56 or 300BO, but once you get over about 1,500 Ft/lb energy it becomes more apparent).

The first time my one buddy cranked off a 6.5 Grendel round in an 18" barrel next to me while I watched him shoot a small boar, I was quite amazed at the volume of his report. I was glad that I had my ear pro on to say the least. I had another friend shoot a small hog another night, and within 60 seconds got a text from the landowner next to the property we were on, asking if I got anything. I did a Google maps check later, and that shot was 1.25+ miles from his house.

I agree that suppressors have benefits for sure. Shoot an 18" .308 at night with a three port brake and you become a one-man light show. Shoot that same rifle standing next to someone and you immediately become the asshole too. However, I don't think they are a one-size-fits-all solution for every shooting or hunting application.

My suppressor experiences where I am shooting multiple rounds at live targets are also relegated to hog hunting at night. All I know is that my experience became much better when my hunting partner also obtained a suppressor. They aren't ninja quiet, but they are loads better than a braked .308 or even .556 popping off next to you. I wear Sordin ear pro, and even with those on, an unsuppressed round discharged next to you is not what I would call pleasant.

I have never cleared a room in my life other than before I vacuum, so I have zero idea what the tactical advantage or disadvantage would be. My non military brain tells me the experience would be much more chaotic with 3 guys shooting unsuppressed vs suppressed. But again, no clue on that one. Hell, now that I think about it, I don't think I have ever fired a gun inside a structure with walls and a roof.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I've cleared rooms before.
I used to do it all the time at work.
In fact, if anyone else was home, I'd be clearing the living room too.

 

[Moe Ron]

Sorry. I’m to busy to respond.

 

[pineoak]

Might be quieter if we welded the ejection port shut...

 

[stefan73]

Have been shooting a metric ton as well as training a lot of people over the last months. Day. Night. In 115 degrees. Sand storm. Rain and mud. Whatever.

While I haven't picked up some weird Jedi trick or anything, something hit me the other day that stuck with me for a bit and had me rethink something. It's something that I had already done years ago, to an extent, when deployed while carrying a Mk12.

As most of you know, the Mk12 is an 18 inch heavy barrel SPR. Basically a 18 inch HBAR 'carbine' with an optic on it. Given that issued weapons can range from 10.3 all the way up to a 20 inch A4, the 18 inch barrel on these wasn't some crazy long length. We 'adopted' the Mk12 to be used as basically a regular carbine by carrying a pouch for the suppressor, adding a MRDS on the top of the optic which put it at basically the height of modern RDS risers and even would take the QD bipod off the gun until it was needed. This gave you a 18 inch gun that while not as light as a Mk18 or shorter variants, was still capable as a 'carbine' and removed a lot of the downsides you have with larger, longer, heavier precision specific weapons. I've cleared structures with a stripped down Mk12Mod1 and Insight MRDS on it. I'd do it again tomorrow if I had to.

So this got me thinking about the 11.5 carbine I use 99.8% of the time with a suppressor on it. Let's look at the benefits of having that suppressor on it and then I'll tell you where we're going with this:

- Quieter (duh)
- Slightly faster muzzle velocity; in reality, looking at the terminal ballistics threshold on M193, I'm getting ~4 extra yards from the added velocity. Not life changing.
- Less/better environmental disturbance (kicking less dirt up off of things when shooting, etc)
- Significant flash suppression at night

That's about it.

The cons:

- It's heavier
- Changes center of gravity
- It's the length of a 16 inch carbine with the suppressor attached
- Possibility for gas issues
- Dirty
- No recoil dampening / negates any benefit from a quality brake

I've determined that for a carbine (not talking about precision guns here!), suppressors are basically only really useful (other than if you're shooting alone or just dicking around) for night time shooting due to the sound reduction and primarily, due to the superior flash suppression.

But..but..its quieter!?!

Right.

But it's not like its a fart in the wind quiet, and I'm already wearing electronic ear pro with comms attached so being able to fire the weapon without hearing protection is moot. The gun is lighter and faster. My MAMS brake gives me the recoil of a 22LR and has allowed for much faster weapon presentation and rounds on target. Any 'loss' of terminal ballistics due to the negligible loss in FPS at the muzzle is not even measurable. The only real con is 'its loud' ; see: Everyone is wearing Peltors or an AMP headset anyways. Plus if you're using sidearms and/or going inside structures, you're using already using headsets anyways.

Take that suppressor off during the day time as it's not helping shit. Stow it in the zip on panel on your carrier. Bring that bitch out when you go to grab your PVS31 insert when the sun starts going on.

Fight me.

Yes, they have their uses.

Suppressors are handy in certain locals and situations.

Getting in a bigger firefight they aren't that handy since my M2 and M240B's weren't suppressed. When we opened up the 240B's on port setting three everyone knew we were there.

But they looked cool.

 

[SmartDonkey]

About 2 weeks ago I was trying to help a guy with a question on a barrel.... he was trying to find the longest muzzle device he could so that he could take more barrel off and still be 16" after the weld. After multiple tries to tell him to find the muzzle device that worked best and then determine how long the barrel needed to be-- I just gave up, took my aching head and went home. Moral of the story- the shorter the barrel the better- to hell with the free velocity.

I do like the idea of more barrel length and a shorter can.... but shoot a 16" after weld the most.

** What were those cans that went back over the barrel a few inches so you had more capacity without increasing the length as much?

 

[diggler1833]

My suppressor experiences where I am shooting multiple rounds at live targets are also relegated to hog hunting at night. All I know is that my experience became much better when my hunting partner also obtained a suppressor. They aren't ninja quiet, but they are loads better than a braked .308 or even .556 popping off next to you. I wear Sordin ear pro, and even with those on, an unsuppressed round discharged next to you is not what I would call pleasant.

I have never cleared a room in my life other than before I vacuum, so I have zero idea what the tactical advantage or disadvantage would be. My non military brain tells me the experience would be much more chaotic with 3 guys shooting unsuppressed vs suppressed. But again, no clue on that one. Hell, now that I think about it, I don't think I have ever fired a gun inside a structure with walls and a roof.

Shooting a braked rifle among a bunch of hunters is kind of a dick move. I've done it, and I'll avoid doing it again as much as I can...even though all of us wear over the ear electronic muffs.

98% of my hunting is done alone, so I'm not offending anyone. If it were the other way around, I'd be running a can and dealing with the other hassles like weight and maneuverability in a heartbeat.

 

[nikerret]

** What were those cans that went back over the barrel a few inches so you had more capacity without increasing the length as much?

AB Suppressor has a “reflex” system that can be used. Their suppressor comes with a flat/direct thread and a reflex of your choice in one inch increments 1-5” and in two barrel sizes: normal and bull.

I’ve been considering them, for my first suppressor, but I’ll probably cheap out and go with a YHM.

 

[Charger442]

Have been shooting a metric ton as well as training a lot of people over the last months. Day. Night. In 115 degrees. Sand storm. Rain and mud. Whatever.

While I haven't picked up some weird Jedi trick or anything, something hit me the other day that stuck with me for a bit and had me rethink something. It's something that I had already done years ago, to an extent, when deployed while carrying a Mk12.

As most of you know, the Mk12 is an 18 inch heavy barrel SPR. Basically a 18 inch HBAR 'carbine' with an optic on it. Given that issued weapons can range from 10.3 all the way up to a 20 inch A4, the 18 inch barrel on these wasn't some crazy long length. We 'adopted' the Mk12 to be used as basically a regular carbine by carrying a pouch for the suppressor, adding a MRDS on the top of the optic which put it at basically the height of modern RDS risers and even would take the QD bipod off the gun until it was needed. This gave you a 18 inch gun that while not as light as a Mk18 or shorter variants, was still capable as a 'carbine' and removed a lot of the downsides you have with larger, longer, heavier precision specific weapons. I've cleared structures with a stripped down Mk12Mod1 and Insight MRDS on it. I'd do it again tomorrow if I had to.

So this got me thinking about the 11.5 carbine I use 99.8% of the time with a suppressor on it. Let's look at the benefits of having that suppressor on it and then I'll tell you where we're going with this:

- Quieter (duh)
- Slightly faster muzzle velocity; in reality, looking at the terminal ballistics threshold on M193, I'm getting ~4 extra yards from the added velocity. Not life changing.
- Less/better environmental disturbance (kicking less dirt up off of things when shooting, etc)
- Significant flash suppression at night

That's about it.

The cons:

- It's heavier
- Changes center of gravity
- It's the length of a 16 inch carbine with the suppressor attached
- Possibility for gas issues
- Dirty
- No recoil dampening / negates any benefit from a quality brake

I've determined that for a carbine (not talking about precision guns here!), suppressors are basically only really useful (other than if you're shooting alone or just dicking around) for night time shooting due to the sound reduction and primarily, due to the superior flash suppression.

But..but..its quieter!?!

Right.

But it's not like its a fart in the wind quiet, and I'm already wearing electronic ear pro with comms attached so being able to fire the weapon without hearing protection is moot. The gun is lighter and faster. My MAMS brake gives me the recoil of a 22LR and has allowed for much faster weapon presentation and rounds on target. Any 'loss' of terminal ballistics due to the negligible loss in FPS at the muzzle is not even measurable. The only real con is 'its loud' ; see: Everyone is wearing Peltors or an AMP headset anyways. Plus if you're using sidearms and/or going inside structures, you're using already using headsets anyways.

Take that suppressor off during the day time as it's not helping shit. Stow it in the zip on panel on your carrier. Bring that bitch out when you go to grab your PVS31 insert when the sun starts going on.

Fight me.

all i heard was the AEM5/Ops 12th is the best suppressor and i should use it exclusively. K thanks.

 

[babyguppy]

I've cleared rooms before.
I used to do it all the time at work.
In fact, if anyone else was home, I'd be clearing the living room too.

yea, but eating beans and chili and holding it for a tactical situation, might be tough for the rest of us.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Sorry. I’m to busy to respond.

View attachment 7931735

 

[MK20]

Have been shooting a metric ton as well as training a lot of people over the last months. Day. Night. In 115 degrees. Sand storm. Rain and mud. Whatever.

While I haven't picked up some weird Jedi trick or anything, something hit me the other day that stuck with me for a bit and had me rethink something. It's something that I had already done years ago, to an extent, when deployed while carrying a Mk12.

As most of you know, the Mk12 is an 18 inch heavy barrel SPR. Basically a 18 inch HBAR 'carbine' with an optic on it. Given that issued weapons can range from 10.3 all the way up to a 20 inch A4, the 18 inch barrel on these wasn't some crazy long length. We 'adopted' the Mk12 to be used as basically a regular carbine by carrying a pouch for the suppressor, adding a MRDS on the top of the optic which put it at basically the height of modern RDS risers and even would take the QD bipod off the gun until it was needed. This gave you a 18 inch gun that while not as light as a Mk18 or shorter variants, was still capable as a 'carbine' and removed a lot of the downsides you have with larger, longer, heavier precision specific weapons. I've cleared structures with a stripped down Mk12Mod1 and Insight MRDS on it. I'd do it again tomorrow if I had to.

So this got me thinking about the 11.5 carbine I use 99.8% of the time with a suppressor on it. Let's look at the benefits of having that suppressor on it and then I'll tell you where we're going with this:

- Quieter (duh)
- Slightly faster muzzle velocity; in reality, looking at the terminal ballistics threshold on M193, I'm getting ~4 extra yards from the added velocity. Not life changing.
- Less/better environmental disturbance (kicking less dirt up off of things when shooting, etc)
- Significant flash suppression at night

That's about it.

The cons:

- It's heavier
- Changes center of gravity
- It's the length of a 16 inch carbine with the suppressor attached
- Possibility for gas issues
- Dirty
- No recoil dampening / negates any benefit from a quality brake

I've determined that for a carbine (not talking about precision guns here!), suppressors are basically only really useful (other than if you're shooting alone or just dicking around) for night time shooting due to the sound reduction and primarily, due to the superior flash suppression.

But..but..its quieter!?!

Right.

But it's not like its a fart in the wind quiet, and I'm already wearing electronic ear pro with comms attached so being able to fire the weapon without hearing protection is moot. The gun is lighter and faster. My MAMS brake gives me the recoil of a 22LR and has allowed for much faster weapon presentation and rounds on target. Any 'loss' of terminal ballistics due to the negligible loss in FPS at the muzzle is not even measurable. The only real con is 'its loud' ; see: Everyone is wearing Peltors or an AMP headset anyways. Plus if you're using sidearms and/or going inside structures, you're using already using headsets anyways.

Take that suppressor off during the day time as it's not helping shit. Stow it in the zip on panel on your carrier. Bring that bitch out when you go to grab your PVS31 insert when the sun starts going on.

Fight me.

Yeah. That is what guys have been doing for a really long time now.

Whi have a bigger, heavier gun when I can use a shorter, lighter one. Oh, and no lead infused gas to the face that way too.

Glad to see you caught up with the times, boomer

 

[kthomas]

IMO, the biggest pro of a suppressor isn't reduction in sound, but concussion.

I like to suppress everything. Apparently I'm a bitch, I'm more sensitive to concussion than I used to think. Suppressors for me make firearms waaaay more pleasant to shoot.

Im also not doing any high speed, low drag super squirrel shit. I'm just a dude that likes shooting.

 

[Thumper580]

Quieter and is pretty effective as a muzzle brake (.308).

 

[rlsmith1]

IMO, the biggest pro of a suppressor isn't reduction in sound, but concussion.

I like to suppress everything. Apparently I'm a bitch, I'm more sensitive to concussion than I used to think. Suppressors for me make firearms waaaay more pleasant to shoot.

Im also not doing any high speed, low drag super squirrel shit. I'm just a dude that likes shooting.

Agree, if I'm shooting off the back deck I've got a wall about 2 ft from my head. Super nice to have everything quieted down. I'm sure the neighbors don't mind either. One of them said it sounds like I'm shooting a potato cannon

 

[stefan73]

IMO, the biggest pro of a suppressor isn't reduction in sound, but concussion.

I like to suppress everything. Apparently I'm a bitch, I'm more sensitive to concussion than I used to think. Suppressors for me make firearms waaaay more pleasant to shoot.

Im also not doing any high speed, low drag super squirrel shit. I'm just a dude that likes shooting.

I was knocked out cold and couldn't hear out of my left ear for about 2 weeks after someone stuck the muzzle brake next to my ear. Felt like I was hit in the side of the head by a 2X4.

 

[JLP83]

I agree with your point but unless I find myself in combat I'll keep shooting suppressed 24/7