Sorry to any evangelicals out there but I have tried everything and it never gets better than about 1.2 MOA and it goes up to 2+. Driver issue? Anything is possible but seems like I'd get lucky at some point. I'll be the first to tell you I'm no expert, but this thing seems to suggest it's more than a driver issue. It's definitely been good for teaching me to focus on fundamentals, chasing any degree of consistency but enough is enough.
P308 14.5" 1:10
FAQs to save some time hopefully:
1. Is it the glass?
Could be. I have an SWFA SS on there now with Leupold rings. Bases at 65 inch-pounds, rings at 24 inch-pounds. In the beginning I had my Mark IV 4.5-14 on there, same results so I put the Leupold on a different rig that seemed more deserving. I have an 8-32 nxs I could throw on there if you think it's the SS.
2. Ammo?
I've tried a LOT of factory, factory match, load workups, you name it. 110-180 I believe. 175 GMM shoots about the same as Ventura M80 (example of a cartridge with lots of variability in HS, seating depth etc). In my load workups I'll get a 3-shot group that hints at a node but when I follow up to explore it's nowhere to be found.
3. Maybe I suck at handloading?
Probably, but scroll down for comparison photos from yesterday. 200yds, load workups. Just an example of my typical experience with equal time invested in both of these rifles. Best & worst groups from the GAP-10 vs best & worst from the POF on this particular day. Granted different powders, bullets etc but included to show that I have some kind of process and very basic ability to experiment with case prep, powder selection, charge, seating depth etc.
4. Must be the driver.
Still learning, yes. GI is not the same as piston, I get it. But does that explain the difference between a .75" group at 200 yards and a 2.5" group at 200 yards? Or is 1.2 MOA as good as it gets for me no matter who does what to this rifle?
5. How dare you compare GAP to POF...
Not comparing, showing photos to give info on load workup process and shooter baseline since that's what a lot of initial responses will focus on
6. Why don't you just (insert DIY suggestion here...tighten, bed, replace, etc) open to suggestions but I am not a gunsmith. I don't mind learning but if I am going to spend the time & money to learn it probably won't be on an ar-10.
7. Just sell it!
I could. I'm going to be honest so it wouldn't get full price out of anyone, just wondering what my options are to try to salvage some shooting potential out of it.
8. Send it to POF, they'll fix it...
Tried that, twice, on my own dime. The first time they admitted it wouldn't shoot, claimed they replaced the barrel but did not even test fire it with the new barrel to see if that fixed it. Sent it back again. No comms, just showed up in the mail one day and shot the same as always. If I pay that much to ship it again it's going to be to someone who 1. intends to fix it and 2. knows how to communicate with the customer.
I know an ar piston isn't going to beat a GI or bolt pound for pound on accuracy, that's not the point. I believe there are folks out there that know how to put together a piston rifle to get the best consistency the design will allow. Folks who take pride in their work. Just looking for recommendations on who those people are.
The thing I love about the Hide is this community of great folks with so much knowledge and advice. I'm learning a lot from all of you. I'm looking forward to hearing from you, even if it's not nice, because I'll learn from that too. Thanks much.
P308 14.5" 1:10
FAQs to save some time hopefully:
1. Is it the glass?
Could be. I have an SWFA SS on there now with Leupold rings. Bases at 65 inch-pounds, rings at 24 inch-pounds. In the beginning I had my Mark IV 4.5-14 on there, same results so I put the Leupold on a different rig that seemed more deserving. I have an 8-32 nxs I could throw on there if you think it's the SS.
2. Ammo?
I've tried a LOT of factory, factory match, load workups, you name it. 110-180 I believe. 175 GMM shoots about the same as Ventura M80 (example of a cartridge with lots of variability in HS, seating depth etc). In my load workups I'll get a 3-shot group that hints at a node but when I follow up to explore it's nowhere to be found.
3. Maybe I suck at handloading?
Probably, but scroll down for comparison photos from yesterday. 200yds, load workups. Just an example of my typical experience with equal time invested in both of these rifles. Best & worst groups from the GAP-10 vs best & worst from the POF on this particular day. Granted different powders, bullets etc but included to show that I have some kind of process and very basic ability to experiment with case prep, powder selection, charge, seating depth etc.
4. Must be the driver.
Still learning, yes. GI is not the same as piston, I get it. But does that explain the difference between a .75" group at 200 yards and a 2.5" group at 200 yards? Or is 1.2 MOA as good as it gets for me no matter who does what to this rifle?
5. How dare you compare GAP to POF...
Not comparing, showing photos to give info on load workup process and shooter baseline since that's what a lot of initial responses will focus on
6. Why don't you just (insert DIY suggestion here...tighten, bed, replace, etc) open to suggestions but I am not a gunsmith. I don't mind learning but if I am going to spend the time & money to learn it probably won't be on an ar-10.
7. Just sell it!
I could. I'm going to be honest so it wouldn't get full price out of anyone, just wondering what my options are to try to salvage some shooting potential out of it.
8. Send it to POF, they'll fix it...
Tried that, twice, on my own dime. The first time they admitted it wouldn't shoot, claimed they replaced the barrel but did not even test fire it with the new barrel to see if that fixed it. Sent it back again. No comms, just showed up in the mail one day and shot the same as always. If I pay that much to ship it again it's going to be to someone who 1. intends to fix it and 2. knows how to communicate with the customer.
I know an ar piston isn't going to beat a GI or bolt pound for pound on accuracy, that's not the point. I believe there are folks out there that know how to put together a piston rifle to get the best consistency the design will allow. Folks who take pride in their work. Just looking for recommendations on who those people are.
The thing I love about the Hide is this community of great folks with so much knowledge and advice. I'm learning a lot from all of you. I'm looking forward to hearing from you, even if it's not nice, because I'll learn from that too. Thanks much.
