Old People Precision Rimfire

[DownhillFromHere]

I have emailed a link to this thread to the range owners/match directors at three venues popular with SC/NC/VA PRS competitors. @BillOH , I wish your match was closer to central NC - I'd love to shoot it.

It breaks my heart to read the words from some of y'all who want to shoot PRS-style matches but can't because of the physical requirements. I may be pissing in the wind, but I'm pushing for senior-friendly matches here in NC.

Coleman's Creek ran one last fall - and only 15 people showed up. It pissed me off bigtime because I had several guys say they would jump at a seniors-friendly event and then they puss*d out and wouldn't go. I heard CC will do one or more again this year, which is amazing to me because it wasn't worth their effort last year. I was surprised and glad they didn't cancel it.

It's geezer bedtime.

 

[BillOH]

Thanks @DownhillFromHere .

We didn't invent this. The credit goes to a couple MARS clubs over East. Upthread there is a link to their info.

The beauty of this is, that a club can be having a regular NRL22/PRS22 match and all they need is a portable bench or 2. There are dozens of plans on the internet for portable benches. I originally built one for myself from a scrap chunk of 3/4" plywood and a set of folding picnic table legs from the hardware store. Powerline has some nice ones built from laminated wood with legs of pipe with flanges connecting to the table.

Every club that is holding NRL22/PRS22 matches could be doing this for minimal expense. They could recoup their expense on the first match with the additional attendance.

This is going to be fun. Especially for us old guys.

 

[BillOH]

Today's the day.

Weather looks like it will be OK. It's going to warm up into the 60s but it will be somewhat windy. Good day to learn hold off. We have reasonably large targets for the distances, so it will be fine.

 

[bsekf]

Thanks @DownhillFromHere .

We didn't invent this. The credit goes to a couple MARS clubs over East. Upthread there is a link to their info.

The beauty of this is, that a club can be having a regular NRL22/PRS22 match and all they need is a portable bench or 2. There are dozens of plans on the internet for portable benches. I originally built one for myself from a scrap chunk of 3/4" plywood and a set of folding picnic table legs from the hardware store. Powerline has some nice ones built from laminated wood with legs of pipe with flanges connecting to the table.

Every club that is holding NRL22/PRS22 matches could be doing this for minimal expense. They could recoup their expense on the first match with the additional attendance.

This is going to be fun. Especially for us old guys.

"They could recoup their expense on the first match with the additional attendance."

Are you charging to compete or are you having 50-50 competition? How much and how does it work?
Bill

 

[bsekf]

OOP!

Billoh,
"They could recoup their expense on the first match with the additional attendance."

Are you charging to compete or are you having 50-50 competition? How much and how does it work?
Bill

 

[BillOH]

"They could recoup their expense on the first match with the additional attendance."

Are you charging to compete or are you having 50-50 competition? How much and how does it work?
Bill

Most ranges charge from $10 to $20 or so to compete. My thoughts were, if a club spends $50 or so to build a portable bench, then a few extra entry fees would pay for the bench quickly.

We had a good day. People started showing up before the 10AM start and we had steady shooters all day. It started slacking off around 2:30. I grabbed a couple hot dogs and ate them while running shooters so I wouldn't pass out from hunger.

We had all levels of experience from beginners to seasoned competitors. Some shot the courses of fire and some were just learning how to shoot at distances. Lots of smiles.

The range will be holding regular matches of outlaw steel with a tactical benchrest option.

 

[sjesatko]

Hello Everyone,

I would like to introduce myself. I am a match director at Bridgeville Rifle and Pistol Club and co-director of the Modern American Rimfire Series Tactical Bench. The match director out of Quinton Sportsman Club is the other co-director for the tactical bench rest series.

I was very pleased to see so many interested shooters in this thread. Some of you I have already had contact with. The Tactical Bench Rest Series is a perfect place to achieve the goals most of you are looking for. The competition can be what you wish to make it. There are already some great shooters involved in the series. Here is the current scoreboard for the Tactical Bench Rest Series.

Scoreboard 2023

MARS Series Leaderboard A member’s Individual MARS Series score is comprised by combining your highest score from four different clubs. You can view your high score for each club that you hav…

modernamericanrimfireseries.com

Scroll down for Tactical Bench Rest.

These match require little to no extra effort by your local match directors. Any Nrl22/ PRS match course of fire with more than 8 stages can qualify as a Tactical Bench Rest Match. All the match directors have to do is provide a bench and list it as a separate match in practiscore or other posting method. Depending on the match Tactical Bench Rest Shooters are a separate squad from the other match shooters and scores are separate. This makes for an easy submission of scores to MARS to be added to the leaderboard. Please talk to your local match directors about adding TBR to the regular matches.

Our matches in Bridgeville, DE and Quinton, NJ have been positive. We have seen 10 to 15 shooters on average just in TBR. These are shooters who would not have shot the regular PRS/NRL22/ MARS matches. Many new shooters are choosing to cut their teeth in these matches. This provide new shooters a chance to get familiar with range commands, dope, and a match environment in a much safer manner.

For additional information about starting Tactical Bench Rest in your area. Please contact email at:
[email protected]

Steve Jesatko

 

[BillOH]

Time for an update.

Powerline Range is going deep down the rabbit hole. Plans now are for regularly scheduled monthly matches.

There will be 5 to 8 stages shot on hanging steel from 25 yards out to 200 yards with corresponding target sizes. Stages will be shot from normal PRS style props for those that choose to do that. Right beside the props will be a sturdy semi-portable bench for the more seasoned shooters to shoot from. It is the shooters choice which style they use at each match. The same targets and engagement order will be used on each stage. Shooters will be scored separately.

The MD is busy building sturdy props because there is some thought to holding center fire PRS style matches there.

Much thanks to the folks from MARS for the original idea and thanks to everyone who has contributed on this thread.

 

[sjesatko]

Glad we could help. Please remind/ encourage your shoots to join Modern American Rimfire Series to get included in the leaderboard for the PRS and tactical bench rest. Scores can be submitted to [email protected].

 

[WeeHooker]

Time for an update.

Powerline Range is going deep down the rabbit hole. Plans now are for regularly scheduled monthly matches.

There will be 5 to 8 stages shot on hanging steel from 25 yards out to 200 yards with corresponding target sizes. Stages will be shot from normal PRS style props for those that choose to do that. Right beside the props will be a sturdy semi-portable bench for the more seasoned shooters to shoot from. It is the shooters choice which style they use at each match. The same targets and engagement order will be used on each stage. Shooters will be scored separately.

The MD is busy building sturdy props because there is some thought to holding center fire PRS style matches there.

Much thanks to the folks from MARS for the original idea and thanks to everyone who has contributed on this thread.

Kudo's to these good folks for coming up with a solution to make PRS attractive to all physical abilities!

 

[Arrowhead 17]

I am doing somewhat better. My pain management guy finally figuered out something to do for my bum hip after another MRI. I received a rather complicated injection over two weeks ago and I can stand and walk with no pain. I'm keeping my fingers crossed hoping this lasts for some time. The down side to my age is I can no longer bend over for more than just seconds and lifting anything over about 20 pounds results in a backache.
My hands have been mostly spared from arthritis but my strong side wrist hasn't so that limits the recoil I can handle with pistols. At least I can now shoot steel with the kids without carrying around a folding stool to sit on while waiting my turn and walk back and forth from the target boards on the rifle range in a reasonable length of time.

 

[bsekf]

I just got all the material ready to build a KYL setup, but with longer legs so you hit the berm instead of the ground. And you can set it up at any range. I am going to incorporate a 2 inch target to use as a sighter. Haven't gotten to the point of anything longer than 100 yards. One of our guys is at a 2-300 yard 22rf match today, hopefully he will have some ideas on what to use for sighters. Seems to me as if you need some way to use sighters without paper. If this works I'll post some pictures and am keeping track of the cost. It's going to be bigger than the $150 KYL setup but still portable.

To the guys with challenged mobility. Do you have any problems with double vision after twisting your neck certain ways? or just being dizzy or unstable? I am finding some of my aging problems have to do with vision. I remember my Mother telling me her eyes weren't quite the same, day to day. I figured her glasses were dirty. Nope! Zelda was right ......again!

 

[Arrowhead 17]

I think a KYL rig would be nice to have. Several years ago I would have built my own but essential tremors have seriously reduced my welding skills and a little welding would be required. As to eyes my wife is grumbling about day to day differences in her eyes but her doctor has has found what the problem is and it is currently under correction. With time it is healing it's self. Me, I see very well now after cataract surgery and the only problem I have is with allergies causing itchy, watering eyes on occasion.

 

[bsekf]

Had cataract surgery last year and will need a laser touch up. Biggest complaint is up close, I carry readers all the time. I have stigmatisms and even corrected I sometimes see 2 vertical cross hairs in the scope, and I get eye strain looking through the scope or spotter for extended periods. 10-15 min.

Finished my KYL rig, will have to wait to see if it is durable. I used 1/2" re-rod, 1/2" black pipe and Grade 8 bolts with double nuts, they hang on a piece of heavy belting. I'll take some pictures and get a bill of materials. I got < $50 invested in 2 sets , 5 targets each. My welding is mostly bubble gum, but has improved after getting an auto dimming hood and I try to sit. If you used the A500 swinging targets 1" to 1/4" , the $144 set is a bargain.

Bill

 

[6.5SH]

Had cataract surgery last year and will need a laser touch up. Biggest complaint is up close, I carry readers all the time. I have stigmatisms and even corrected I sometimes see 2 vertical cross hairs in the scope, and I get eye strain looking through the scope or spotter for extended periods. 10-15 min.

Finished my KYL rig, will have to wait to see if it is durable. I used 1/2" re-rod, 1/2" black pipe and Grade 8 bolts with double nuts, they hang on a piece of heavy belting. I'll take some pictures and get a bill of materials. I got < $50 invested in 2 sets , 5 targets each. My welding is mostly bubble gum, but has improved after getting an auto dimming hood and I try to sit. If you used the A500 swinging targets 1" to 1/4" , the $144 set is a bargain.

Bill

Something to take a look at:

Scope Aid: Best Rifle Scope Lenses for Hunting and Shooting

Get the best shooting rifle scope lenses specially designed for bifocal and progressive lens wearers. We offer risk free scope lenses with a 60 days guarantee

scopeaid.com

 

[Arrowhead 17]

I had to have it on both eyes. Turns out it is pretty common after the surgery.

AR500 steel is totally unnecessary with 22LR. Wasted money as mild steel will last forever with that caliber. Of course I have seen no one offering them so it's a make it yourself proposition. I have enough shorts of different sized rod to cut most of the diameters need for a rig and enough pipe for the hinges to make it simple. My son's hands do not shake yet so I may talk him into doing the welding and have a KYL rig on the cheap. Both of us used to make our living as certified welders so it should look good and hold together.

 

[BillOH]

The first Outlaw Steel Match at Powerline Range near St Clairsville OH is this coming Saturday, May 27.

Information is on Powerline Range's Facebook page.

This will be an outlaw PRS style match with common props and barricades. Each stage will also have a bench set up for those who can't or don't want to shoot from the props. Bench shooters will shoot the same target array as the prop shooters, but will be scored separately.

This match is the result of some old guys with creaky knees who can't get back up after they get down to shoot. Young, healthy shooters are also welcome.

 

[DRACO]

We had our second Outlaw Steel and Tactical Bench match at Powerline on Saturday. Shooting Tactical off a bench isn’t as easy as one might think. It’s a good steppingstone for new shooters to learn the basics and old dogs like me still get to play.
Any trigger time in a good time.

 

[sjesatko]

Great work. Love to see the tactical bench rest crowd grow.

 

[DRACO]

Steve the diamonds barricade was a big hit. Thanks for the idea. Hit ratio off the barricades came in at around 92% +\- Off the bench it was around 89% +\-

 

[sjesatko]

Steve the diamonds barricade was a big hit. Thanks for the idea. Hit ratio off the barricades came in at around 92% +\- Off the bench it was around 89% +\-

Sounds like a well designed match. I spoke with Mike today. We briefly discussed trying to come out and see you guys in August. We still need to check our schedules. When is your August match?

 

[DRACO]

Here’s the schedule. Hope you guys can make it 🕳

 

[BillOH]

Sounds like a well designed match.

These were very well designed stages. I shot Tactical Bench and Keith had some surprises for the bench shooters that challenged their skills. It wasn't just shooting off the bench like usual, but this old guy could do anything he asked me to do. This range is awesome and the props are well designed and sturdy. I'm looking forward to the next one.

 

[sjesatko]

These were very well designed stages. I shot Tactical Bench and Keith had some surprises for the bench shooters that challenged their skills. It wasn't just shooting off the bench like usual, but this old guy could do anything he asked me to do. This range is awesome and the props are well designed and sturdy. I'm looking forward to the next one.

That's awesome!! That is the heart and entire premise of the MARS TBR Series in a nutshell. The whole idea of TBR is to give newer shooters, older shooters, anyone who doesn't want to shoot off of barricades, a means to enjoy our sport. Win or lose, I have yet to see anyone leave a TBR match who did not have a great time. The friendly competition, banter, and exchange of knowledge amung

 

[BillOH]

There was only one negative that several shooters mentioned. The targets were hard to find in the grass after they had been shot a bit. Any ideas to help would be appreciated.

The range is a grassy hillside. it has been brush hogged and then just before the match, lanes were mowed to separate the stages. It was very plain where the lane was for each stage but the targets disappeared in the mowed grass background. Paint color changed for each stage. White, yellow and red. Targets were painted before the match started and not repainted during the match.

A suggestion to tie a strip of surveyors ribbon to the bottom of the target stand was suggested. Are there any other ways to help?

 

[ma smith]

There was only one negative that several shooters mentioned. The targets were hard to find in the grass after they had been shot a bit. Any ideas to help would be appreciated.

The range is a grassy hillside. it has been brush hogged and then just before the match, lanes were mowed to separate the stages. It was very plain where the lane was for each stage but the targets disappeared in the mowed grass background. Paint color changed for each stage. White, yellow and red. Targets were painted before the match started and not repainted during the match.

A suggestion to tie a strip of surveyors ribbon to the bottom of the target stand was suggested. Are there any other ways to help?

One option is to label all the targets with a marker post. Marker posts are fairly well established in PRS, but typically this is when 2 stages share share line of sight, and MDs want to keep shooters on course. No reason you couldn't adopt this technique for PID. Other options are to change the post style, post-height, or similar.

 

[vaguru]

We use different color survey flags for each stage. stg 1 yellow, stg 2 blue, stg 3 orange, etc. Use 2 flags for each target, one on each side. Inexpensive and available at most home stores. Easy to push in the ground with attached wire shaft.

 

[sjesatko]

There was only one negative that several shooters mentioned. The targets were hard to find in the grass after they had been shot a bit. Any ideas to help would be appreciated.

The range is a grassy hillside. it has been brush hogged and then just before the match, lanes were mowed to separate the stages. It was very plain where the lane was for each stage but the targets disappeared in the mowed grass background. Paint color changed for each stage. White, yellow and red. Targets were painted before the match started and not repainted during the match.

A suggestion to tie a strip of surveyors ribbon to the bottom of the target stand was suggested. Are there any other ways to help?

It does help if before the stage you can find a landmark that you can use to help locate the different targets. When setting down your rifle have your body and barrel inline with the targets. If the field is just a blank field void of contours, trees, etc. Ask Keith to put small soccer cones by the targets. I use them at my matches. Walmart has a 12 pack for about $10. The bright orange by the targets help identify the target location.

 

[sjesatko]

It does help if before the stage you can find a landmark that you can use to help locate the different targets. When setting down your rifle have your body and barrel inline with the targets. If the field is just a blank field void of contours, trees, etc. Ask Keith to put small soccer cones by the targets. I use them at my matches. Walmart has a 12 pack for about $10. The bright orange by the targets help identify the target location.

Do use to much magnification!!!! This is a common problem that plaques newer shooters. When shooting a stage with multiple targets distances. Your magnification should be no more than 10x to 15x. Kyl targets and stages that have targets at longer range are an exception. It is always best to shoot at the lowest magnification need to see targets. It also helps with parallax. The higher the magnification the more distortion you will notice from your parallax not being set for that distance. Pick a parallax setting somewhere in the middle of target distances lower your magnification to a point where you can still see/use your reticle and the targets should be easier to aquire

 

[DRACO]

Gentleman. Thanks for all your suggestions on spotting the shot up gray targets.
I have ordered some fluorescent surveyors tape to attach to the target hangers, 4”x5” lawn marking flags to put beside the targets
and we are going to have some targets on higher T post as well as A Frame swingers. I have had problems with the swinging 1/4” targets flipping off their hanger but by using my 1/2” centerfire 3” at 100 yds I couldn’t get it to spin over.
If all this fails to work I guess I’ll have to get signs with big arrows with HIT HERE written on it pointing at the targets
The rabbit hole deepens as the fun escalates
🕳

 

[BillOH]

The next match is tomorrow, July 29. Sign up 7:30 to 8:30. Shooters meeting at 8:45 and rounds downrange at 9AM. 9 stages.

 

[DRACO]

With a wet start we got in the Outlaw Steel and Tactical Bench match at Powerline

 

[BillOH]

With a wet start we got in the Outlaw Steel and Tactical Bench match at Powerline

All you fair weather shooters missed a good match. See the shadows in most of those pictures? The rain quit about starting time and it was a beautiful day on the range.

 

[Wrong Hand]

Probably my last post. I too am a old guy. Trap shooting is getting to hard on my shoulder joints. Can not find anything closer than 5 hours away. If you guys do get anything going around Tampa area please post location. From what I find out it is too hot in the summer to shoot. Thanks for all the information . Shoot well

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Do they allow rocking chairs? Just ‘sayin?

Sirhr

 

[Alan Warner]

Do they allow rocking chairs? Just ‘sayin?

Sirhr

Smart ass

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Smart ass

It's like you know me!

Cheers!

Sirhr

 

[Alan Warner]

It's like you know me!

Cheers!

Sirhr

Takes one to know one

 

[BillOH]

Do they allow rocking chairs? Just ‘sayin?

Sirhr

As George Jones said: We don't need your rockin' chair. However, if you want to come shoot with us, I can bring one from home for you to use. We try to accommodate everyone. This is all about old decrepit people being able to shoot.

 

[chevy_man]

According the the hand job guy....let me back up a sec....

When I got knocked off the bike I broke three ribs and both "thumbs". Oddly enough when I was getting the ribs looked at I asked about my thumbs hurting.....oh you need to go to another Dr for that, I only do center body stuff.....ahh what? So I go to the as I call it the hand job guy. It is not my thumb that is broken but the inside of my hand where the ligament attaches. I can't make a #4 with my fingers, my thumb will not tuck in to my palm. He said they could operate, but you still have X % use of your thumb and we could make it worse. Down the line you may need something but right now there is a good chance we will make it worse.

I passed. Now it is to the point where on most days it is in the group what I call I know it is there. It always "hurts" but not bad, you can deal. Then there is the issue of my back, and that I will not be what I call a human without some meds, including some stuff our .gov went to "war" on. I take that crap every day. I think one of the side benefits of that is it knocks the edge off the thumbs.

I have tried it before and it just makes it hurt more with more use. Anymore I just type for a living and hitting the spacebar with the thumb can really get me after a long report.

How many years has it been?

Medical tech and procedures change, as do the surgeons themselves. My Dad just had a procedure done that he was told wouldn't be possible 5 years ago.


Every single person I talk to that's been worked on has the exact same thing to say: "I feel so much better, why didn't I do this years ago?".

 

[fpgt72]

How many years has it been?

Medical tech and procedures change, as do the surgeons themselves. My Dad just had a procedure done that he was told wouldn't be possible 5 years ago.


Every single person I talk to that's been worked on has the exact same thing to say: "I feel so much better, why didn't I do this years ago?".

I would say 6-7 years ball park. Unless it really starts to bark at me I am not going. I have been cut on enough to last a lifetime.

Is that the smart thing to do, likely not. But I am at the stage unless it is really hurting, and hurting for days I am not going to go.

 

[BillOH]

Do they allow rocking chairs? Just ‘sayin?

Sirhr

The next match at Powerline is this coming Saturday. Do we need to bring you a rocking chair or are you bringing your own? Regular shooting stools will be available for all the other tactical bench shooters. Regular PRS style props also.

10 stages. Around 100 rounds. Sign in starts at 7:30. 50 yard sight in is available until 8:30. Shooters meeting at 8:45 and rounds downrange at 9:00.

 

[DRACO]

The next match at Powerline is this coming Saturday. Do we need to bring you a rocking chair or are you bringing your own? Regular shooting stools will be available for all the other tactical bench shooters. Regular PRS style props also.

10 stages. Around 100 rounds. Sign in starts at 7:30. 50 yard sight in is available until 8:30. Shooters meeting at 8:45 and rounds downrange at 9:00.

Got the steel out for the match Bill.

 

[Shutinlead]

We have an organization a little further out west, originally based in Billings but there's considerable organization happening here, the website is called Precisionrimfireoutlaws.com or Pro series for short. We follow some of the NRL formats but the we change things up a little to make it interesting. There's a match within a 4 hour drive almost every weekend of the year, not saying the weather is going to allow you to make them.
Most of the matches have an OG division and a majority of the match directors accomodate folks like us - some are us. One smart alec suggested that maybe OG wasn't quite enough, we needed an AG group (ancients..) but all humor aside, that prone stuff or just barely above prone barricade thing, doesn't work well with replaced or deteriated joints so they change it up a little for us. Generally, it'll be off the mid height that everyone shoots, but we still have to made a move and reposition - it's still time and action. The time thing, we move slower and it's a given, you may not get through the stage - oh well - 16 shots in 90 seconds, come on... Practice, you may surprise yourself - time lost with a mag change because of numb and arthritic fingers isn't much different than some of the youth with no focus... Remembering to close your bolt? forget to dial? can't remember the dope I just looked at, hell I forget to zip what's new...

 

[lyman]

I have emailed a link to this thread to the range owners/match directors at three venues popular with SC/NC/VA PRS competitors. @BillOH , I wish your match was closer to central NC - I'd love to shoot it.

It breaks my heart to read the words from some of y'all who want to shoot PRS-style matches but can't because of the physical requirements. I may be pissing in the wind, but I'm pushing for senior-friendly matches here in NC.

Coleman's Creek ran one last fall - and only 15 people showed up. It pissed me off bigtime because I had several guys say they would jump at a seniors-friendly event and then they puss*d out and wouldn't go. I heard CC will do one or more again this year, which is amazing to me because it wasn't worth their effort last year. I was surprised and glad they didn't cancel it.

It's geezer bedtime.

curious on which Clubs in Va,

I have a friend that runs PRS at a few clubs in Central Va, next time we chat I will ask him if he is here and has seen this thread,

FWIW, on Fakebook there was a post by Major Land's Sniper Cup that sounded like his match (upcoming) is Geezer friendly,
saying that as a guy that is 6 weeks from 60 and has bad knees, and shoots service rifle,


I can also promise you if you come to Rivanna Rifle and Pistol Club in Charlottesville and want to shoot a High Power\Service Rifle match , we will work with you if you have 'needs' RRPC has always been accomodating to new shooters, regardless of age. ability, etc

 

[BillOH]

We had a great day at Powerline last Saturday. Weather was just right and the famous Powerline wind was gentle with us. No rocking chairs were seen.

@sjesatko it was great meeting and shooting with you and Tyler. I enjoyed learning how experienced shooters approach a stage. I now know to measure the targets myself.

Next match at Powerline is Long Gong on Sept. 3 at 1:30. We shoot from a bench so us old guys can shoot that.

Next Outlaw steel/ Tactical bench match is Sept 23.

 

[sjesatko]

It was a pleasure meeting and shooting with you as well. I look forward to coming out that way again. You are all a great group with some very talented shooters. Hope to see you all soon.