Old photograph of Che.... can you help me ID the Rifle

[sirhrmechanic]

The rifle may be a Beretta. But not sure.

Picture is from 'a place' in Cuba. In the back is Fidel with a Browning Hi Power on his hip and an unknown bolt rifle. On the left is "Senor Foco" himself... Che Guevara.

What is the rifle that Che is holding? Looks to me like a pretty generic Mauser. But someone says it's a Beretta? I know nothing about Beretta sporting rifles. So anyone know?

Believe photo was taken in Cuba while the Revolution was still in progress.... the push towards Havana.

Any input would be helpful for an upcoming article.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Dan M]

Looks like a 98 Mauser... the bolt sleeve has a gas deflection flange, a 98 Mauser hallmark.

 

[jbell]

Looks like a 98 to me, but a commercial rather than a military with the rearward sweeping bolt and the stock...

 

[Trigger Monkey]

FN Mauser for sure, may also be referenced as a Belgian Browning Safari Grade. I did some searching and came up with a picture of Castro holding a similar rifle. Note the swept bolt handle, stock reinforcement bolt just forward of the ejection port, and the ramped front sight (note this is similar to the front sight of the rifle to Castro's left). Given Castro and Guevara's proximity to each other in the time period it's conceivable that these are the rifle's in question.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Very cool photo! And, yes, I totally agree with the consensus. That has to be a commerical Mauser. I am betting looted from a plantation (or plantations) during La Revolcion!

Thanks everyone!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[jmar]

Looks like this action, which I think was based on blueprints of FN Mausers. Very distinct bolts. http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/dumoulin-mauser-action.aspx

Funnily enough I'll probably be buying one soon to build a custom so it was very fresh in my mind. Cool photo.

 

[sandwarrior]

Looks like a 98 to me, but a commercial rather than a military with the rearward sweeping bolt and the stock...

Note the grip-cap. I agree, commercial for sure. The question of these is what cartridge are they chambered for?

 

[Trigger Monkey]

More than likely .30-06. From some of the research I've done this evening Castro intentionally tried to use and obtain arms chambered in standard US cartridges so that they could get ammo from Batista forces.

 

[sandwarrior]

More than likely .30-06. From some of the research I've done this evening Castro intentionally tried to use and obtain arms chambered in standard US cartridges so that they could get ammo from Batista forces.

You know that makes sense. I was thinking 7x57 at first. Then I thought DUH!!.... post WWII we convinced 90% of South and Central America to switch over to 30-06. He might have been thinking interchangeable ammo from Batista, but there was 30-06 all over South and Central America as well as the Caribbean.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Looks like this action, which I think was based on blueprints of FN Mausers. Very distinct bolts. http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/dumoulin-mauser-action.aspx

Funnily enough I'll probably be buying one soon to build a custom so it was very fresh in my mind. Cool photo.

What you planning on building sir? Be sure to post it up here for certain!

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Not building anything, Coyote... assisting an historian/author friend of mine with research on an article.

I'll post the article when he finishes it...

Of course, you may be addressing Jmar... in which case, never mind!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[RTH1800]

Agree with the Browning commercial rifle. Also with it was likely stolen from local estate. Lot of hunters and sportsman in pre castro Cuba.
As an aside Che was executed with an M1 carbine.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Agree with the Browning commercial rifle. Also with it was likely stolen from local estate. Lot of hunters and sportsman in pre castro Cuba.
As an aside Che was executed with an M1 carbine.

It could have been stolen from a local estate... but remember that his little band of merry morons did come from Mexico to Cuba to start their revolution... on a yacht that was paid-for by a Mexican gun dealer. The 90 or so who were on the yacht were armed with stuff they got, likely, from Miami, Texas... anywhere else they could buy or mailorder stuff. Don't forget that Castro was bankrolled... including by a former Cuban President who was in exile in Miami... having fled Batista.

Castro was financed. Not just a little barrio-rat who got lucky. And there is also a pretty good case to be made that the Soviets were involved in bringing him back to the island.

So while I agree with you RTH... they likely grabbed a lot from plantation owners and others on their March West... they also came with a boatload (literally) of guns during their leaky boatride across the Caribbean.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[jmar]

What you planning on building sir? Be sure to post it up here for certain!

Nothing much, one day I'd like to be a semi competent gunsmith/machinist and hopefully start my own rifle company. I thought buying a Mauser action, craigslist lathe, and .308 barrel blank would give me a good start on how to do things. I also want to build my own aluminium chassis 'tactical themed Mauser' for the Mauser to jump start me on milling. This is my new years resolution, so there's an indicator on how long /if it'll be done. But if I ever manage to get things rolling I'll definitely post it up!

 

[sandwarrior]

It could have been stolen from a local estate... but remember that his little band of merry morons did come from Mexico to Cuba to start their revolution... on a yacht that was paid-for by a Mexican gun dealer. The 90 or so who were on the yacht were armed with stuff they got, likely, from Miami, Texas... anywhere else they could buy or mailorder stuff. Don't forget that Castro was bankrolled... including by a former Cuban President who was in exile in Miami... having fled Batista.

Castro was financed. Not just a little barrio-rat who got lucky. And there is also a pretty good case to be made that the Soviets were involved in bringing him back to the island.

So while I agree with you RTH... they likely grabbed a lot from plantation owners and others on their March West... they also came with a boatload (literally) of guns during their leaky boatride across the Caribbean.

Cheers,

Sirhr

I somehow got sidetracked off this thread and did not read this post. Anyhow it's a great analogy of how most weapons came to be in one hand or another. Not only was the choice 30-06 because that was what Batista had, where they came from would dictate a lot of that too. Mexico had converted to 30-06 in 1954. Which meant they could get a lot of that there. Not only in the boat they came in, but stockpiled before and after with more trips than just the one they came to Cuba on.

And of course, post WWII we had the Belgians supplying a lot that we couldn't. As we noted, they were making a ton of Mausers for everyone around the world who wanted one. And often went as a supplement to our M1's.

sirhr,

I like your idea about making rifles. For every million Mausers out there that are untouched, or still at least a good historical example, there are ten million that have been altered past the point of being able to return them to any semblance of originality. Plenty of material to work with.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

In case noone noticed it, last month's American Rifleman had the article called "Guns of a Dead Revolutionary" article by James Stejskal.

That's the piece that this question was aimed at researching... and the article came out great! You should all feel proud that you had a little piece of getting that article correct.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Looks like he had a fine taste in firearms, for a commie

 

[ArmedGinger]

Looks like they used a few of those rifles.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2128

 

[sandwarrior]

Looks like they used a few of those rifles.

View attachment 7436478

By the sweep and shape of the bolt I would almost say Zastava Mark X. Probably in 30-06. Cuz nothing says "revolution" like getting all your surplus ammo from the people who you want to fight. I didn't think of them the first time I posted to this thread.

 

[MK20]

based on the time frame and likely state/rich individual sponsors of his movement, taking into account the likely avenues of supply that they used (US sourced arms or mail order arms) I would say that that rifle looks a heck of a lot like my JC Higgins 30-06. It was a FN post war commercial mauser with a very distinctive version of the mauser flag type safety. I seem to see that safety in one of the pictures posted here. It was also one of the cheapest but good quality sporting rifles that were widely available from multiple sources in the 50's

 

[sandwarrior]

based on the time frame and likely state/rich individual sponsors of his movement, taking into account the likely avenues of supply that they used (US sourced arms or mail order arms) I would say that that rifle looks a heck of a lot like my JC Higgins 30-06. It was a FN post war commercial mauser with a very distinctive version of the mauser flag type safety. I seem to see that safety in one of the pictures posted here. It was also one of the cheapest but good quality sporting rifles that were widely available from multiple sources in the 50's

It could be a combination. Or, as you said, mail order. Which JC Higgins were (they predated the 1968 gun control law). I see the sweep of the Mark X and the straight down style like the FN's. I can't see the safeties on my computer. Golden State was producing "re-built" Mausers and I've seen a few of them with swept bolts. They were mail order too. The scopes pretty much look like Weavers, circa 1950's. Can anyone see the rings clearly?

 

[MK20]

JC higgins model 50 pics. Note the very distinctive flag type safety which most of the pics above seem to have.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Take it with a grain of salt, but I’ve read Fidel’s favorite weapon was a Model 70 Winchester .30-06

What was Cuban terrain like? Apparently spread out enough to favor scoped bolt actions..?

 

[sandwarrior]

JC higgins model 50 pics. Note the very distinctive flag type safety which most of the pics above seem to have.View attachment 7437410View attachment 7437411View attachment 7437412

I blew it up twice and see they are all swept. Your last pic doesn't look swept. The one I'm thinking of is this:

FN put as many Mausers out there as anybody, if not more. and in different configurations.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Since things went to press, (but before he magazine shipped) we have received some information that a lot of the rifles were bought at sporting goods stores in Dallas and Miami by American supporters of Castro (remember, he was not a Communist yet!!). And that most were Belgian Browning commercial Mausers.

Not got multiple confirmations or anything as solid as receipts... But it fits with some of the info on Castro's support network.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[MK20]

That would make sense as to why they reminded me of the JC Higgins rifles. Those things used postwar commercial FN receivers. Those receivers are identical to what FN was using on their in house branded stuff at the time. And they both made extensive use of those weird wing type safeties that let you use a scope.