Gunsmithing Opening up a Tikka bolt face

[BurnOut]

I'm in the planning stage of a build, and I'll need to get a Tikka T3 bolt face opened up from ~.473 to ~.535 (converting from 30-06 to 270 WSM). I already have had one shop refuse the work, so I'm looking for a shop that'll do it and wondering about what I should expect to pay.

I figure that given the design of the T3 bolt (with the removable handle), it'd be reasonably easy to do... but I admit that I could be wrong. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[MTyotehunter]

I think your problem is in that the Sako extractor will be wrong and I’m not sure if you can just swap it. I think they cut the slot depth for the case diameter.... I’ve bought most MT tikkas used for under $400, hit a few used shops n pawn shops for a WSM/300win/7mm

 

[wes1]

I’ve had two T3 bolts I opened from .380 to .447 without issue.
But it comes down to extractor location....I had a .484 PTG bolt opened to .550 (m16 style extractor). The bolt wouldn’t close on a round, because the extractor was “too deep” . The extractor couldn’t raise up to “grab” the rim.
I imagine the Sako style T3 could have the same issue.

 

[Stooxie]

I opened up a 223 bolt face to fit 6.8 SPC. Works like a champ. I'll post more about it in a bit.

 

[powdahound76]

Call Mr dixon at LRI.

He likes crazy stuff so it seems, if it is possible.
I know its not super complicated with a Rem bolt and Im not sure i have ever seen or read about it with a Tikka.

I agree with above poster. Just shop around for a mag bold face.

And lastly, why wreck a great rifle in the perfect hunting caliber? ?

 

[BurnOut]

I think your problem is in that the Sako extractor will be wrong and I’m not sure if you can just swap it.

I'll be honest, earlier in the course of this project I had that thought, and then I came across spare parts kits for T3 bolts like this one. Looking at the "Specifications" tab at that link shows that the parts kit (which includes an extractor) is compatible with a wide range of cartridges from ~.378 bolt face diameter to ~.535. However, now that I see the feedback from user @wes1 above regarding the "depth" of the extractor (distance from the firing pin hole to the extractor in its resting position), I think that that may be where I hit a snag (if anywhere).

That being said, I am somewhat heartened to see the feedback that he was able to open up T3 bolts from .380 to .447 (a difference of .067) and have them function; the change that I am looking for is less than that (.058). Looking at the extractor and eyeballing things, it looks like I might be riiiiiight on the edge of having the extractor cut in the bolt be too deep to close on a .535" rim, but there seems to be enough meat on the extractor to be able to extend the "ramp" on the front of it it to help it slide over the larger case rim. Hmmmm...

Anyhow, as for calling LRI, that's definitely on my list of things to do... I was hoping that Chad would chime in on this thread. As for converting from 30-06 to 270 WSM, I have another rifle (Steyr Pro Hunter) in 30-06, and I'm just wanting to play with the Berger 170 gr .277 EOL projectiles...

 

[powdahound76]

Here is a good way to get Mr Dixon to look. He is busy playing with his new machine, may take a bit.

@LongRifles Inc. whatcha say?

 

[Stooxie]

Ok, here's what I know about this. I've never seen a magnum Tikka bolt, but I have the 223, 308 and 270 ones. The ejector plunger is in the same position for all of them, so that's good news. I think the largest (magnum) bolt face Tikka has is for the 300WM which should be about .530, maybe someone can measure. There has to be extra room to allow for the case to slip out at an angle so if 270WSM rim is 0.535 plan on about 0.542 to 0.545. If you have a 270WSM bolt somewhere see how wide it is. The key here is that the ejector doesn't have to be moved, cuz that's kind of a non-starter or at least a hell of a lot of work otherwise resolve.

Now for the extractor, everything is exactly the same across all three of my bolts except for the depth of the shelf that the extractor sits on. Simple, the 223 bolt has a deeper shelf than the 308 one. The extractor pivots the same. Now, the hole for the extractor spring is drilled to match the shelf height, that keeps the plunger underneath the round butt of the extractor.

When going from .384 (223) to 6.8 SPC (.422) the location of the extractor spring hole made no difference. It was close enough, there's plenty of area for the plunger to press against. So my ejector was fine, my extractor plunger and spring were fine, I just wanted to "raise the shelf" a bit on the bolt to more properly align the extractor with the rim.

There's tons of easy ways to do that and, again, the functioning of the extractor is identical, all that changes is the shelf depth. What I ended up doing is gluing a tiny piece of 0.17 thick metal to the belly of the extractor. Problem solved. Yes, not exactly a life-depends-on-it-solution but could be solved in 1000 different ways. Considering there is really zero pressure on that shim I bet it will last a lifetime.

So my hypothesis is that you can do the exact same thing starting with a magnum bolt face. This is where Tikka's simple pushfeed design is a big benefit.

As for opening up the bolt face, a local gun smith here did it with his CNC in about 25 minutes. He referenced off the firing pin hole. You could hear the cutter squealing against the hard nickel boron of the bolt, but it had no trouble. Speaking of @LongRifles Inc. , this bolt is actually at their shop right now being Cerakoted so maybe that can study it for science!)

Picture is below. It feeds and ejects perfectly.

-Stooxie

 

[BurnOut]

Actually, the more I look at it and think about it, the more I convince myself that I can glue/epoxy a shim to the bottom of the extractor so that when it is in its resting position, it is far enough from the bolt centerline to be able to snap over the outside of the ~.535 rim. It's a bubba fix, but I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't work. It's a low stress location/application, so I'm not seeing much in the way of durability concerns...

 

[Stooxie]

Actually, the more I look at it and think about it, the more I convince myself that I can glue/epoxy a shim to the bottom of the extractor so that when it is in its resting position, it is far enough from the bolt centerline to be able to snap over the outside of the ~.535 rim. It's a bubba fix, but I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't work. It's a low stress location/application, so I'm not seeing much in the way of durability concerns...

If you have yet to read my post then JINX!

 

[BurnOut]

If you have yet to read my post then JINX!

Hahaha... perfect! I really appreciate the info, sir!

 

[zog]

As for opening up the bolt face, a local gun smith here did it with his CNC in about 25 minutes. He referenced off the firing pin hole. You could hear the cutter squealing against the hard nickel boron of the bolt, but it had no trouble. Speaking of @LongRifles Inc. , this bolt is actually at their shop right now being Cerakoted so maybe that can study it for science!)

Picture is below. It feeds and ejects perfectly.

-Stooxie


View attachment 7024271

I was going to start a thread asking how a gunsmith opens a bolt face. Then I found this thread in my search, so I can use this excellent picture, which almost answers my question just by looking at it . . . .

So, for example, to open a bolt face from .270 to 7mm mag, a smith removes the plunger and extractor and then mills (bores?) the face from .470 to .540, so he removes .035 radius of material with an end mill? Does he hone or round the sharp edge created by the bore?

Then the extractor can go right back where it was, which is what Stooxie was posting about?

 

[Sniperwannabee]

@reubenski had his done and it runs flawlessly
http://www.hpgunsmithing.com/ did it for $135

 

[LRI]

I'll chime in tomorrow. Phone is dead from laughing at Murder Hornet Memes.

Lol.

C.

 

[Stooxie]

I was going to start a thread asking how a gunsmith opens a bolt face. Then I found this thread in my search, so I can use this excellent picture, which almost answers my question just by looking at it . . . .

So, for example, to open a bolt face from .270 to 7mm mag, a smith removes the plunger and extractor and then mills (bores?) the face from .470 to .540, so he removes .035 radius of material with an end mill? Does he hone or round the sharp edge created by the bore?

Then the extractor can go right back where it was, which is what Stooxie was posting about?

Chad (LRI) will respond with far more useful info, but what you describe is what my guy did. He chamfered the new edge to the same angle as what was there before. I don't have a Tikka mag bolt so I don't KNOW if the plunger placement is the same between that and .270. I do know that it is in the same place for .223 up through .308 (maybe .270WIn, too, I have one of those but don't recall).

-Stooxie

 

[dustingaunder]

 

[LRI]

I know we can do this. The tools and process is about as dummy simple as it gets.

My immediate concerns/thoughts:

A 308 uses a .473" diameter bolt face. This can vary from one manufacturer to another a little.
.545" covers most magnums. Again, it does vary by manufacturer.

To go from one to another is a .072" difference in diameter and .036" on the radius. Not a big change, only roughly the thickness of a common matchbook folded in half and onto itself. The issue becomes the claw. When its "right" the claw's purchasing face is parallel to the ring created on the rim of the case. Basically, they lay flat to one another. When you enlarge the radius the extractor is now pushed further from the center. Because it pivots, the two faces are no longer parallel. The business part of the claw is tipping away slightly.

Now, it may work just fine. The range of the rotation is likely as such that it will tolerate the difference in size with no consequence. My only real question here is what happens if you stick a case? It may come out with a little snort or it might end up ripping the rim off. I don't know the answer to that. I don't think that doing this creates any more danger than normal should you ever "sneeze" a case and blow the extractor out of the gun. My instincts say it probably would have come out anyway.

So, what the hell? I guess we'll start offering it.

Happy to help.

 

[dustingaunder]

Could you guys make a bolt body so a Tikka user could have 3 different bolt bodies and the one factory firing pin assembly? The FP assembly is easy enough to swap without tools. That would be pretty slick.

 

[daylate]

I know we can do this. The tools and process is about as dummy simple as it gets.

My immediate concerns/thoughts:

A 308 uses a .473" diameter bolt face. This can vary from one manufacturer to another a little.
.545" covers most magnums. Again, it does vary by manufacturer.

To go from one to another is a .072" difference in diameter and .036" on the radius. Not a big change, only roughly the thickness of a common matchbook folded in half and onto itself. The issue becomes the claw. When its "right" the claw's purchasing face is parallel to the ring created on the rim of the case. Basically, they lay flat to one another. When you enlarge the radius the extractor is now pushed further from the center. Because it pivots, the two faces are no longer parallel. The business part of the claw is tipping away slightly.

Now, it may work just fine. The range of the rotation is likely as such that it will tolerate the difference in size with no consequence. My only real question here is what happens if you stick a case? It may come out with a little snort or it might end up ripping the rim off. I don't know the answer to that. I don't think that doing this creates any more danger than normal should you ever "sneeze" a case and blow the extractor out of the gun. My instincts say it probably would have come out anyway.

So, what the hell? I guess we'll start offering it.

Happy to help.

Tag

 

[Shooter71]

I’ve done quite a few from .473 to mag. Haven’t had one come back or had any complaints, and couldn’t get one to malfunction. No mods to the extractor. I haven’t experimented with .223-.308 so not sure about that. Just my (first hand) experience with it.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I'm in the planning stage of a build, and I'll need to get a Tikka T3 bolt face opened up from ~.473 to ~.535 (converting from 30-06 to 270 WSM). I already have had one shop refuse the work, so I'm looking for a shop that'll do it and wondering about what I should expect to pay.

I figure that given the design of the T3 bolt (with the removable handle), it'd be reasonably easy to do... but I admit that I could be wrong. Any input would be appreciated.

Shooter71 is Shaen of Shaenrifles.com
He does great work.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

I’ve done quite a few from .473 to mag. Haven’t had one come back or had any complaints, and couldn’t get one to malfunction. No mods to the extractor. I haven’t experimented with .223-.308 so not sure about that. Just my (first hand) experience with it.

how much are you charging?