Opinion time, Some Market Research

[papershredder]

Unless it's an eratac I can't see value inthe price of the vast majority of unimounts. I have used several of the Athlon 30 & 34mm by 20MOA (would like 30 as an option) on different rifles and they are perfect. They are between a third and half the price of many options. I'd suggest any of the level bubble stuff is rubbish anyway unless you can clearly see it fully engaged in the shooting position on the rifle, assuming they are even accurate.

I don't understand people wanting "chunky" mounts for strength, less machining or not casting smooth radii just result in stress raisers and opportunities to catch or drag on things.

Price is dictated by many factors like where it's made, what materials are used, level of QC just to name a few. Athlon sources their manufacturing from China and Japan. My guess is their mounts are one of the Chinese made items. Chinese made goods have issues that require extra vigilance in QC because the Chinese are known to cut corners at every opportunity possible. A lot of us also do not want to support their economy.

Bubbles for the most part are accurate. It's all the many other factors with the shooter and system combined that mitigate the usefulness of levels.

As far as chunky or thicker mounts go, the objective lens and turrets poking out of the top and sides of the tube have a much greater chance of catching and bumping into things than the mount does. The extra weight of a thicker mount is negligeable.

 

[Smokin7s]

Welp, this headed right where I thought it would. A mount that prices most shooters out of using it.

I don't feel like I'm alone here, but I might be, and don't care if so.

Some of the current mounts avaliable are already $300+, with nothing. I have yet to figure out the benefits that a $3-600 mount can do, that a $140 set of Badger/Seekins/NF can't do.

If such a robust mount is necessary for today's big fancy optics; is the problem the optic? Obviously, I would want my $3-5k optic safe and sound, but how much safety am I gaining vs brand whoring?

Now, mind you all, I'm a poor raising 3 kids. So this is coming from a guy with a XTR II in Seekins, and a RT-6 in a Leupold mount. I'd love to get a better/higher mount for the RT-6, and definitely a riser/flip system for my eotech setups to make them more comfortable.

But: a case of ammo, or bolt something on a different way .

Long way to say that I think I'm out of this one; but as an American capitalist, I appreciate you trying to bring new things to market. Unless it's a $400 red dot mount

My theory is I’m spending enough on match fees bullets time and frustration that if there’s even a chance spending 250 more dollars won’t leave me scratching my head I’m doing it and I think the one piece gives me some peace. There may not be a difference but there’s one less thing to go wrong.

 

[Aqua Mark]

Big fan of NF 1.375 20MOA for 30mm scopes on AR. 20MOA cant seems perfect for (non ELR) centerline with 100yd/M zero. More cant works better at times with rimfires zeroed at or longer than 50yds/M. For rimfire I have experimented with 20, 35, and 70MOA cant. Only the 70MOA one was 'too much' for my rimfires with 50yd zero.
Been happy with NF, ARC, Area 419 products. Would consider AERO mount on a strict budget AR build. I run 30mm and 34mm tube diameter scopes.

 

[AMGtuned]

My theory is I’m spending enough on match fees bullets time and frustration that if there’s even a chance spending 250 more dollars won’t leave me scratching my head I’m doing it and I think the one piece gives me some peace. There may not be a difference but there’s one less thing to go wrong.

You referred to PRS/competition, which is where I tried to stay away from. Catering products to that specific sect, will not necessarily increase your brands visibility. PRS is but one small division of the shooting community. And there are as many shooters NOT in PRS, still in the market for good gear.

Point taken though.

Peace of mind in mounting. Got it.

From this thread (which evidently I should've stayed out of), I've gathered that the importance/benefits of a one piece mount (apparently regardless of price point) are: The ability to swap optics to a different weapon at will, and, it holds things mo betterer.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

For every person who shoots prs matches, there are 50 dudes who buy the gear they use. If you think marketing to PRS shooters is a waste of money, tell that to the sponsors. It's the cutting edge of practical long range shooting and one of the first places gear gets fleshed out.

I mainly rock spuhr. They have never did me dirty and no one touches their ecosystem to mount accessories. I know all about the fastner and cross bar issues. Let me say this. Better that the weak link in a system is the cheapest/replaceable parts than the machined mount body. No matter how hard you try to make instructions clear, some idiot will exceed torque values and destroy the product. It was very forward thinking of them in retrospect. 6+ mounts and most of them getting taken on and off on a weekly basis for Cleaning/swapping and I have yet to break a bar in I don't know how many years. People really overestimate how much torque is needed in these applications.

All my mounts are 1.5" and 20 to 40 moa depending on optic. For heads up shooting, it is the way.

 

[AMGtuned]

For every person who shoots prs matches, there are 50 dudes who buy the gear they use. If you think marketing to PRS shooters is a waste of money, tell that to the sponsors. It's the cutting edge of practical long range shooting and one of the first places gear gets fleshed out.

And there it is.

This thread belongs in the PRS section; where the greatest fucking shooters and product testers reside.

NOT in the Armory section; where average and novice shooters can discuss their experiences, and research new equipment.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

You are the one who brought it up and seemed to get butthurt about it. It was simply refuting a statement you made which is false.

I think it's pretty silly to ignore the whole competition world where gear gets proven when making purchasing decisions. Prs, k01/2m, nrl hunter, quantified performance ect are all places where gear can get tested in the real world and we all benefit from those lessons learned. If you want to stick your head in the sand , go for it. But most intelligent people see the value in learning from it.

 

[AMGtuned]

You are the one who brought it up and seemed to get butthurt about it. It was simply refuting a statement you made which is false.

I think it's pretty silly to ignore the whole competition world where gear gets proven when making purchasing decisions. Prs, k01/2m, nrl hunter, quantified performance ect are all places where gear can get tested in the real world and we all benefit from those lessons learned. If you want to stick your head in the sand , go for it. But most intelligent people see the value in learning from it.

I am not butthurt, or ignoring anyone's input regarding mounts. And if I've made any false statements, that was not my intention, as I'm here to learn like so many others. I will agree that I've drawn some unfavorable conclusions thus far.

However; I can't imagine that I'm the only one on this site, or in this thread, that has some mileage on their gear and never shot a PRS match. My weapons get stove up just the same; lugging them through the woods, in/out of trucks, etc. So I agree with the need for robust/reliable. Not everyone owns safe queens, and even non-competetive shooters actually use their gear.

I'm not going to discount the opinions of PRS shooters and the like; because as with so many other things, it's just another data point. Not THE data point.

 

[Evolution 9]

My preference:

1: 34mm
2: 30mm

1.5” for compatibility with military standard night vision and thermal clip ons.

0 MOA cant for the same reason

I know that’s not a huge market

 

[Jrb572]

34mm 0mo height anywhere from 1.35 to 1.50. I mostly use Sphur but have Accuracy International mounts which I really like to. The reason I pref Sphur is I like the accessories you can add to them.

 

[chevy_man]

There is nothing wrong with rings you mentioned. But they do not do the things a one piece mount allows you to do. I can remove my scope at any time without any consideration of rail spacing, torquing of the scope in the rings, having to re level the scope, etc. Not to mention many here are mounting red dots, NV or thermal, and weapon mounted rangefinders on their rigs. If none of these items are concerns of yours, you won't see the benefit.

I pull my rings on and off all the time. Just leave them attached to the scope and they go right back on and keep zero.

I think there's a lot of worries carried over from the old days before CNC machines could spit out near perfect products.


I fully agree that the reason I haven't justified a 1 piece mount with 18 accessories bolted on is because I don't have a use for them. This is why it confuses me how many will pay for a spur, and never add a single thing to it...

 

[SanPatHogger]

Or you could run a clip on thermal?

That would probably work in a lot of cases. My rifle with the 50moa rail has a 6-24x scope on it. If I'm running a thermal and hunting I want the magnification to go down to at least 2x. Also a chassis with a bridge in the front won't line up with a 50moa base.

 

[Long Range 338]

I pull my rings on and off all the time. Just leave them attached to the scope and they go right back on and keep zero.

I think there's a lot of worries carried over from the old days before CNC machines could spit out near perfect products.


I fully agree that the reason I haven't justified a 1 piece mount with 18 accessories bolted on is because I don't have a use for them. This is why it confuses me how many will pay for a spur, and never add a single thing to it...

Fully understood and it is each persons user case in the end. I never thought the one piece mounts were worth it a few years ago but my philosophy has changed and now prefer to use them when I can. A one piece mount is not always the best solution but I am finding more and more I trend in that direction.

 

[JKC]

1. I run Hawkins 1 piece, Nightforce ultralight on hunting, if I had to switch from Hawkins I’d go Grayops. All 1.5”


3. 35mm/ 0 moa

 

[Smokin7s]

You referred to PRS/competition, which is where I tried to stay away from. Catering products to that specific sect, will not necessarily increase your brands visibility. PRS is but one small division of the shooting community. And there are as many shooters NOT in PRS, still in the market for good gear.

Point taken though.

Peace of mind in mounting. Got it.

From this thread (which evidently I should've stayed out of), I've gathered that the importance/benefits of a one piece mount (apparently regardless of price point) are: The ability to swap optics to a different weapon at will, and, it holds things mo betterer.

I use one pieces on my hunting guns too, missing a coyote because I dropped my scope on its noggin isn’t in the cards a coyote contest entry is 100 per person-ish. Big deer opportunity priceless and really a one piece doesn’t add a ton of weight.

Also, I’d disagree and say that prs type competition is the proving ground for most things in the long range shooting and hunting community. It’s a pretty large entity compared to all the other groups or types of shooters.

 

[Hennig]

6+ mounts and most of them getting taken on and off on a weekly basis for Cleaning/swapping

 

[stanley_white]

Sniper’s Hide: “Don’t be a poor.”

Also Sniper’s Hide: “I like one piece scope mounts so I can switch optics easily between rifles and not have to buy multiple scopes.”

-Stan

 

[Grim's Reapers]

36mm tube, 1.5", 20MOA rail on a 7RM.

I'm an older bastard and my neck doesn't like to be canted to the side too much. My cheek riser is set pretty high due to this.

Granted, my scope's elevation adjustment could probably easily handle a mile without the 20MOA rail, I don't like running my elevation close to its limit for no other reason than I don't. LOL

 

[Long Range 338]

Sniper’s Hide: “Don’t be a poor.”

Also Sniper’s Hide: “I like one piece scope mounts so I can switch optics easily between rifles and not have to buy multiple scopes.”

-Stan

Not every thread is the Accuracy International thread…. But you’re not wrong either!

 

[GenericBadGuy]

Tell Spuhr to bring back the SP4006 and SP4002 instead of the clipped C models. The less is more thing is stupid when we are shelling out even more for current year price increases.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

The Spuhr cross bar issue was caused by a bad batch of aluminum per Spuhr. Contact

Tell Spuhr to bring back the SP4006 and SP4002 instead of the clipped C models. The less is more thing is stupid when we are shelling out even more for current year price increases.

It was done to increase space between the "rings" w/o increasing the overall length the mount.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

The problem is (and I have 3 C mounts) that it changes what can be mounted at the rear ring. When i switched from ZCO to G3 Razor had to get new mounts obviously. The C models were the only option for 1.5", 20MOA in 34mm.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

It was done to increase space between the "rings" w/o increasing the overall length the mount.

I don't have that problem . This product change seems to only have been for the 34mm mounts. Do 30mm, 35mm, and 36mm scopes somehow not have 'space' issue?

 

[Inline6]

I'm old and my gear reflects that.

I'm running Near mounts 0 and 20moa

1.25 to 1.5. They are clean, simple, and work.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I don't have that problem . This product change seems to only have been for the 34mm mounts. Do 30mm, 35mm, and 36mm scopes somehow not have 'space' issue?

All mounts will eventually be updated to the C variant.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

All mounts will eventually be updated to the C variant.

 

[Chris W.]

I have a SPRM and I like it. Makes me feel virile. 30mm Girth and 1.5" length....I mean height.


For real though it's a good mount with a bad name.

 

[WindstormSCR]

I'll preface my responses with the fact I'm primarily a 2-gun competitor, but also like as much precision as I can get out of any rifle I own. the quote "only accurate rifles are interesting" definitely applies.

1. Your Top 3 One Piece scope mounts out there

#1: Badger condition one / MAX : solid mount, available in many sizes and cants depending on the application, provisions for ring mounted items, and/or ADI/Levels and canted dots via the sockets in the base, which keeps stuff off the receiver rail.

#2: Bobro Engineering dual-lever precision mount : not as versatile as the C1, but is very useful for certain optics that get passed between several rifles, or on one of my rifles where having the optic removed makes cleaning much easier. perfect return to zero every time so far. Also fantastic for specialist optics (nv/thermal)

#3: I mostly use the above two, but I have some experience with Eratac rings and they were impressive.

2. What would you like to see, wish list me or tell me what is missing in your opinion

The most versatile platforms get there by having many top ring options depending on what you're trying to achieve, personally I'd love to see the industry come together and agree on a standard interface for Dot plates / diving boards / etc on rings, and some sort of interface like the C1 has in the scope base things can be attached to. Such standards would help everyone since then anyone can make a product to fit either of those places without being stuck with just what the mount manufacturer decides to make.

There is also a decent market in the non-prs space for mounts for closed dots that include a durable sunshade option (think the old G28 red dot mount)

3. Sizes, where do you see the industry going and where would you put your focus if someone gave you a mount company. Choices include:

as long as you've got 34/30mm and 0 and 20 MoA you've got a good chunk of the market covered. I think we will continue to see an increase in main tube sizes as time goes on since it's an easy way for manufacturers to increase light transmission and performance compared to other improvements in the optics train.

4. anything else

The industry may be due for a shake-up depending on what happens with the Magpul/Maztech partnership and Steiner's work in integrating digital fire control into scope bases with an OLED overlay.


Just my opinions, I'm no PRS wizard, but one-piece bases are becoming more and more common over cantilever mounts in the 2-gun space for any rifle capable of utilizing them (pretty much anything not an AR) largely because of durability

 

[whatsupdoc]

34mm 1.35-1.5 0 MOA one piece mounts. My favorite is the MPA BA mount followed by the ARC mount. Have a couple of Spuhr mounts but the the juice is not worth the squeeze. For cantilever mounts the $200 QD Midwest Industries is a good solid performer.

 

[Prebanpaul]

1 Sphur------ When used properly the Versatility to add stuff, and quality is great. Running 9mm or 31 moa cant. I run 5 of these on all bolt guns.

2. For ar15's I hate to admit this but I love the old ARMS mounts with quick detach 0 cant and 34mm there just rock solid

3. Larue stuff for the odd ball.