Sidearms & Scatterguns Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

[adam1122]

Alright, so I own a lot of guns and have shot a lot.....my gun fun for years was a Sig P226 in .357sig. Never failed me and the trigger alone was worth its weight in gold.

I've also owned 1911's of all makes......colts, Kimber, les Baer, recently a nighthawk and a custom Fusion ( whic is my favorite iron).

Now I need to decide between a glock gen 4 21SF or a Smith and Wesson M&P....both in 45acp. I'm sure this will store up some comments. I myself have never been a Glock guy but since they built the Gen 4 in an SF version I like it because the grip isnowsimilar to a 1911. I could have Glockstore build me one with custom parts for well under a grand. And it comes with 3-13 round mags.

What do you guys think.....especially you guy who carry your M&P's out in the field? Anything you don't like about them? Both seem to be indestructible in field testing.

I'm even considered moving into the Next century and having a trijicon rmr mounted in front or rear of the rear sight. Finding a holster might be hard but since I got some cash to burn its time for new gear. And please, no suggestions that I pay for a Chris costa M&p model which is waaaay overpriced......but looks really badass. The rest of my money goes to training and ammo....oh, and the princess.

Thanks gents and ladies.

 

[snipe10]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

I prefer the 21, I've had both but carry a G19 a lot of the time so I'm comfortable with the 21

 

[Ghogs Nightmare]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

Somewhat diff than the offerings u suggested. But shot the MP and the Gen4 21. I liked both but liked the Glock better bc of capacity in regards to size. Although I THINK the MP may have been a bit more accurate. Wasnt shooting for accuracy when i was
trying them so just a guess

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

I would go with the M&P. Feels better and I hate the sights on glocks. I like the way the M&P feels even with the newer gen 4 glocks it still has them beat. You would be happy with both so why not get both, lol

 

[turbo54]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

Glocks, gen4 included, point differently than most pistols. The gen 4 is not 1911-like. It is Glock-like.

The M&P will be a more natural transition from a 1911.

Forget OEM Glock sights. They don't even count as sights.

By the way, I'm a dyed in the wool Glock koolaid drinking fanboi.

 

[adam1122]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

Just to clear this up a bit.....I'm not a glock fan at all.....I dislike how they feel in both hands. Hence, when the gen4 g21sf came out that came a bit "closer" to a 1911 style of grip I had to take a look. Whichever way I go I will be changing the recoil springs to heavy tungsten and swapping the crap stock sights out for some trijicons and possibly an rmr as well.

Guess I need to go shoot an M&P some more before I drop down the cash. Decisions decisions. Why can't I just be content with my Sig P226 or my custom 1911? What the hell is wrong with me. Maybe I just want more ammo in the gun......thought the solutions is to learn how to reload faster.

Thanks guys.

 

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

Glock 21 with a T1 for the win!! (or an RMR or Leupy dot)

 

[Sgt. 0811]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

I have a 21 gen 4 and it is fantastic! I've always been impressed with Glock but the Gen 4 21 really took them to the next level IMO. The old 21 was a great gun but unless you had big ol paws it was clumbsy and uncomfortable. The SF got the size right but it still felt awkward. With the gen 4 they got it right, good grip without being overly aggressive, easy to hold if you have small or mid size hands, tight lockup and outstanding accuracy plus finally someone is selling a gun with 3 mags in the box!

The M&P is a really good gun too but I can't stand the trigger reset, my only beef with the M&P.

 

[macman2564]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

I personally can't stand the M&Ps. I had one for about two weeks. Did a bunch of different stuff to it to try to make myself like it. I ended up selling it on here a while back.

I will take a bone stock glock any day over an M&P.

 

[tpr564]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

I carried a Gen 3 21SF as a duty gun and it was 100%. No problems ever, just like everyone else.

 

[excess]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

Glock

 

[turbo54]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SteelShot11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just to clear this up a bit.....I'm not a glock fan at all.....I dislike how they feel in both hands. Hence, when the gen4 g21sf came out that came a bit "closer" to a 1911 style of grip I had to take a look. Whichever way I go I will be changing the recoil springs to heavy tungsten and swapping the crap stock sights out for some trijicons and possibly an rmr as well.

Guess I need to go shoot an M&P some more before I drop down the cash. Decisions decisions. Why can't I just be content with my Sig P226 or my custom 1911? What the hell is wrong with me. Maybe I just want more ammo in the gun......thought the solutions is to learn how to reload faster.

Thanks guys. </div></div>

How about a Sig 227?

 

[CaptainCalf]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

Shot a Sig Navy 9mm and loved it! Had the S&W .40 and liked it cuz it was nice and slim even with double stack mag, but it frustrated me by consistently shooting low. I replaced it this weekend with a Glock gen4 23 for $625 and OMG what a difference. Less recoil/snap felt and shoots straight as you'd expect any new gun to. Break down and cleaning is much easier/faster with the glock too. I'm ready to go back now for another one...looking at the 26 for a conceal carry and fun gun to shoot a lot cuz 9mm ammo is cheaper then .40. Buy the Glock and you won't regret it.

Also, I like the Glock 3 dot sites much better then the S&W's sites.

 

[Turk]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

I've had both and kept the M&P. The S&W feels better, has better sights, and is every bit as reliable as anything out there. I don't think 10 rds of 45 is inadequate for most situations. As far as Sig's I prefer to stay away from the current production guns.

 

[Turk]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rick C.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Break down and cleaning is much easier/faster with the glock too. </div></div>
You may want to watch this!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CVe7MPoK35c

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

I'm a Glock guy, but I really the M&Ps I have shot that have the full Apex treatment, and hate the ones that don't, my advice is find someone with the pistols you are considering and try before you buy.

 

[sierra6]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

My view on this question a few years back when I answered a similar question regarding these pistols. FWIW it hasn't changed. We have a ton of rounds through the M&P's now and not a single problem. They have proven to be solid, reliable performers which substantiates everything we based our decision on.

My writing from 3.5 years ago

MY department just made the switch to the M&P as well. I am the Sr Firearms Instructor and was instrumental in the transition. We were carrying Glock 23's for the last decade and I convinced our new Chief that a full size duty gun was more appropriate. With his endorsement I acquired T&E guns from Smith in 45acp. and .40S&W We had a Glock 21 SF and a Glock 21 as well as a Dept Glock 22 for the test. I might add that previous to the Glock 23 we issued the Glock 21 and had issues with smaller Officers, primarily females, who could not physically handle the weapon with any level of proficiency. I'll also note that both myself and the other department Firearms Instructor are hard core Glock advocates. I've been carrying one since 1990
when we left thet the S&W 681 .357mag for the auto pistol.

Test guns arrived in both 40S&W and .45acp as I requested. Testing was done on several different occasions during different weather conditions so gloves and winter gear could be utilized. We also allowed members of other neighboring departments the opportunity to participate in the T&E sessions and many did. There was quite a variation in the size and experience level of the Officers and Deputies who eventually tested out the various guns. We literally dropped the pistols in water, mud,sand and subjected them to unmentionable conditions. We fired over 1k rounds in each piece without cleaning as a benchmark. In the end we were totally impressed all of the pistols tested. The Glock 22, 21 and the S&W M&P .40 and .45 Any of the 4 pistols tested would make an outstanding service pistol and that is very much what I expected. All 4 weapons were ultra reliable and we literally could not induce a malfunction with service ammo in any of the weapons.

After all the smoke cleared the decision was unanimous. The S&W M&P in .45ACP won us over and was the recommendation to the admin to be adopted as our new service pistol. The agency accepted our proposal and we just recently received our shipment of pistols. Members have yet to be transitioned to the new weapon. The transition will take place in during our April range cycle.

There were several factors What separated the M&P from the Glock. ERGONOMICS. The Smith .45 with it's adjustable back strap fit our smaller testers as well as the two .40's in the group, and all of the testers felt they preferred the grip on the Smith. The Glock 21 is just plain big. The SF version offers little advantage in grip size and compared side to side with the standard 21 it's negligible. It was not used in the range testing as it did not prove to be of significant difference. SIGHTS. We requested the guns be equipped with factory night sights. The Smith sights offered a better profile and many of the testers commented on this detail. ACCURACY. We did NOT Ransom rest the test guns, but it was clear that during scored drills during the test phase the clear majority of shooters had higher scores shooting both the S&W guns when comparing apples to apples. This was an easily quantifiable advantage. RELOADING. During timed reload drills virtually all shooters posted faster times with the Smith pistols. The steel magazines were clearly a factor in this function. PRICE. Both Reps from Glock and S&W were spoken to and the quote by S&W put it way ahead per unit in price. This was done with a trade in of our model 23 Glocks. Last but not least....MADE IN THE USA. I know I felt good about that and the new Chief commented even before the testing started that it would be nice if we could find an American made pistol that could stack up to the Glock. I'm confident we found one!

In conclusion I would gladly carry any of the four pistols we tested and all of them proved to be as reliable as a mechanical device can be expected to be. A BAD choice would have been impossible. The best choice for us collectively was the S&W M&P .45





Post analysis summary AFTER THE TRANSITION

I've been carrying a Glock everyday since transitioning from a S&W 681 in 1990 at work and I've been a Firearms Instructor since 1990 as well. I've trained probably a thousand Police Officers and recruits in the last 20 years. I certainly don't know everything but suffice to say I've got some experience. With that said, I've been a HUGE Glock proponent for all of those years and I still am BUT......My Dept recently purchased the new Smith & Wesson and I transitioned our Officers from "Brand-G" to the new S&W M&P-45 and it was quite impressive.

Let me preface by saying we secured T&E guns from the different manufacturers when it was decided to seek out a new sidearm. We tortured all the guns in testing and the M&P never missed a beat. It proved to be as accurate or better than any test gun in our evaluation using a wide variety of .45ACP ammo and was chosen by landslide as the most comfortable gu in the test.

The manual of arms is virtually identical to that of the Glock so Glock users are easily transitioned. What made me a believer was the ability to fit every single shooter with a grip that they felt comfortable with. Results spoke for themselves as the majority of the Department shot personal best scores and the Dept average was a record high. The numbers spoke for themselves in both static and moving "combat" type drills.

Does this mean the M&P is a better gun than the G-21? NO...but I would say from my experience it is an easier gun to shoot for a wider range of individuals when comparing Apples to Apples. Especially in the full size .45ACP version. (We tested .40's also)

Try to test drive each and decide for yourself. Both will serve you well. The beauty of it all is that the M&P is a REAL legitimate contender that gives major caliber shoppers another choice.

Be Well....s6

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

If I understand it, there is no such thing as a G21 SF Gen 4. All Gen 4 21s are just G21 Gen 4s which are completely different than the old G21 and G21 SF alike.

As I understand it, the G21 Gen 4 is a major improvement over the old models. I don't have one (yet), but intend to soon.

I've personally never cared for the M&Ps. I dislike additional and unnecessary safeties on a sidearm. They should be "point and click".

Like you, I used to HATE Glocks. I've got a custom 1911 and a Sig P226 that I believed to be the best of their categories. I picked up a Gen 3 G17 and a G19 Gen4 and started shooting the piss out of them. I realized I had been wrong for years about them. They actually shoot well. They forced me to concentrate on the fundamentals and I'm a better shooter for it. They are simple, easy, and reliable. Granted, as mentioned above, the sights suck. They do need replaced. I haven't replaced mine yet, as I want to get a better grasp for the crop of sights available and get it right. I'm leaning toward Heine Straight Eights, but I want to be certain. My previous experience has been mostly with Novaks.

 

[Turk]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I've personally never cared for the M&Ps. I dislike additional and unnecessary safeties on a sidearm. They should be "point and click".

</div></div>
Additional safeties? If you are speaking of the "thumb safety" that comes on some; it can be removed in seconds.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I've personally never cared for the M&Ps. I dislike additional and unnecessary safeties on a sidearm. They should be "point and click".

</div></div>
Additional safeties? If you are speaking of the "thumb safety" that comes on some; it can be removed in seconds. </div></div>

I'm speaking in general, but yes, some M&Ps have a thumb safety, a magazine disconnect, and internal lock. To me those things have no place on a sidearm.

 

[Flatland308]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

I prefer the Glock over the M&P personally, however they are both great pistols.

 

[adam1122]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

Lots of good feedback.....I think I will try to compare a G21SF to an M&P side by side to see how they feel. Either way I go I plan on replacing some parts.......like the spring on the glock to a tungsten which is heavier and also putting some good night sights on it. Not too sure what would need to be replaced on the S&W as I am less familiar.

Guess my shot groups will determine what I buy.

Thanks gents.

 

[axeltow]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

imo never change anything on a glock except for sights and maybe extended slide release if your grip does not interfere with slide lock. They just work out of the box and when you change things you begin to have problems.
i took a g19 new out of the box, did not clean it,never lubed it, carried it for 8 months in the desert, shot at least 200rds a week and never had a failure of any kind. before you say that it was dumb not to take care of my secondary, yes i agree with you, but i was proving a point and i kept my primary in tip top shape.
my point is, if a glock works for your grip, go for it and shoot the shit out of it. the accuracy you will gain from shooting more will outweigh any fancy barrels, springs, ect.

 

[sierra6]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

The M&P's we ordered and issue have No mag disconnect, no external safety and operate exactly like a Glock. Point n shoot, that's it!

 

[fasteddie565]

Re: Opinions needed: glock gen4 21SF vs S&W 'M&P in 45

I have them both. The M&P is definitely more accurate and more point of aim similar to the 1911. The Glock capacity is higher, and the mag release and slide stop are a bit easier to get to IMHO. For what its worth, I CCW the 21 with a light on occasion, The M&P sits in the safe.