Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

[callen3615]

Hi, I would appreciate some help here. I have an adams arms 16 inch mid-length upper on a dpms lower:

I have always used it as a carbine and trained with it as such, practicing close range tactics and shooting positions. I practice shooting and moving, and shooting strongside/weakside.

While all of this is well and good, I have no use for a battle rifle. A carbine is great for fighting off zombies, but I haven't ran into any. What I have ran into is a lot of medium range shooting. 100-300 yards. I don't feel like breaking out the 308 to shoot something like a squirrel, balloon, or medium size steel at 200 yards. I also shoot squirrels in the woods on occasion, while the 22 is quiet and doesn't upset the neighbors it really isn't too effective at 100 yards, which is where I see most of my targets. I was thinking about getting a 17hmr for the squirrels, but Id rather not spend 800 dollars on another less than versatile rimfire and scope when I have a rifle chambered in 223 already.

I never shot groups with this rifle, never really cared. I never shot groups with my BCM upper either although I had heard bold accuracy claims. So out of curiosity I shot a few groups today, it was raining and visibility wasn't too great and the only sight i have is a primary arms 1x red dot. So I shot a few groups at 25 yards off a rucksack with american eagle 55gr. The rifle grouped around .350 from outside hole to outside hole. So center to center is something like 0.127, so that's about 1/2 inch groups at 100...theoretically, might be better if I have a scope with some magnification, maybe I flinched just right today. I would be surprised if it really shoots 1/2 moa at 100, I would be happy with 1 moa. I have read other reviews of adams arms accuracy and didn't really believe it. I guess I always believed that a gas piston system is detrimental to accuracy and GP would never be close to DI in accuracy. But lets not get into that, please.

So knowing all of that I'm beginning to ponder getting a 1-4x scope and maybe a different stock to use it against tree rats and medium distance targets.

My question is basically, how limiting is my 16 inch barrel? Id really like to put a decent scope on this thing and see what it can really do out to maybe 300-500 yards, but I'd like to know if I'm wasting my time and money. I'd really like to hunt squirrels out to 200 yards with it also. Am I asking too much of this rifle, or the 223 in general?

Thanks for the help

 

[jakerz3]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Squirrels out at 200 should be easy.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

So what am I looking at here? I would need a scope, mount and maybe a different stock?


I like what I've read about the Burris Tac30. I would eventually need a different stock to even the balance, something heavier like the UBR. I just can't afford to do all of that at the same time...

 

[callen3615]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

...and probably a 20 round magazine.

 

[chittnp]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

a 4x optic should be all you need, the stock should be fine. You should be able to bring the pain to the tree rats beyond 200 yards with that.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Sweet! I'm looking forward to blowing squirrels in half!

I guess I was just wondering what the point of getting a 18 or 20 inch barreled upper, how much velocity difference is there?

 

[BCP]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I guess I was just wondering what the point of getting a 18 or 20 inch barreled upper, how much velocity difference is there? </div></div>

100-200fps.

1-4 PST is my favorite for the money or maybe the super nsiper 1-4 group buy.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I guess I was just wondering what the point of getting a 18 or 20 inch barreled upper, how much velocity difference is there? </div></div>

100-200fps.

1-4 PST is my favorite for the money or maybe the super nsiper 1-4 group buy. </div></div>

I looked at it extensively. I cant see myself spending 500 dollars on that scope. Looks like it has illumination issues. Id rather get the burris tac30 or maybe nikon m223 BDC for half that.

 

[USACS]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

A 16" target/heavy barrel can hit accurately out to extended ranges at 800yds and further. 200yds for a 16" barrel is chump change. Easily accomplished.

 

[ColoWyo]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

I recently got an 16" upper from Bravo Company and have been EXTREMELY happy with the results. It has a 1-8 twist and I've been shooting the 77gr SMK at 2640. I haven't shot any groups since I zero'd it, bit I've shot a fair amount of steel with it and can't say enough good things about the accuracy. And that's just off a backpack with the standard shit trigger.

According to Ballistic FTE, it's supersonic to 975 yards. That's with a DA of 7000' though.

I think you'll be very happy when you decide to stretch it's legs a bit.

BCM upper, Laure 10 MOA QD mount, and a Leupold 3-9 Patrol TMR/MIL scope. Waiting on the ATF for the can.

 

[jakerz3]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

As far as the optic goes; I'm using a Burris XTR 1-4x and can't say enough good things about it. this scope flat out rocks.

 

[BCP]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

PST reticule is very fast and because of the size illumination isn't really needed. Burris TAC30 is okay I didn't like the size of the center dot though.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
According to Ballistic FTE, it's supersonic to 975 yards.That's with a DA of 7000' though.
</div></div>

That's like being on the moon...

My new 16" has similar numbers when using a hot load of TAC or Varget, old 18" WOA did a little more with a mild load.

 

[GoBig]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

I'm happy w/ my WOA 16" barrel...very accurate!

 

[callen3615]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Proud Noob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as the optic goes; I'm using a Burris XTR 1-4x and can't say enough good things about it. this scope flat out rocks. </div></div>

Yikes, that price is rocking me right now...

 

[animalmother85]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

My girlfriend's(black) and mine (green)

My SAM-R rendition

 

[5RWill]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

ACOG, or Viper PST would be my choice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I recently got an 16" upper from Bravo Company and have been EXTREMELY happy with the results. It has a 1-8 twist and I've been shooting the 77gr SMK at 2640. I haven't shot any groups since I zero'd it, bit I've shot a fair amount of steel with it and can't say enough good things about the accuracy. And that's just off a backpack with the standard shit trigger.

According to Ballistic FTE, it's supersonic to 975 yards. That's with a DA of 7000' though.


I think you'll be very happy when you decide to stretch it's legs a bit.

BCM upper, Laure 10 MOA QD mount, and a Leupold 3-9 Patrol TMR/MIL scope. Waiting on the ATF for the can.



</div></div>

Agreed, while lately i haven't been able to get good groups out of my BCM, when i do my part it has grouped 77smks right at .6 MOA.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Nice looking sticks guy. I cant decide on a scope right now and id rather not let $ influence what scope I get so I picked up a used UBR.

I will be selling my CTR if anyone's interested. Will be in FS section...

 

[Hawk45]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Yeah, a 16" will get you easily to 300. Optics.. I have the Burris Tac30 and it is good for quick hits on I'd say plate sized targets, but it is by no means a precision optic. The PST 1-4 would be a better option for smaller targets. Now, you could zero on one of the lower/smaller dots on the Tac30 if you want as well.

 

[BadDudes4Hire]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

CPT. OBVIOUS

You are NOT asking too much for the middy. Decent round. But if you really want a good 3 inch group at 300 yds or 1 MOA, you have to take a look at 3 things on the gun, and then the optics. I like DPMS more for 308, but anyway, to get you where you want:
1. Barrel - Barrel will give you stability in your shot if it has some weight. I would like to see it be a 18" Stainless steel.
2. Trigger - While a 2 stage is more ideal for honing in on a long shot, a good single stage like Giessele could get you there.
3. Load - While I am not a fan of handloading for a 223/5.56, it can serve a purpose like what you want. There are some good factory rounds out there- NOT Wolf.
Then focus in on optics. Please stay away from a 1-4, as it wont really give you a good view long ways. A more suitable would be 3-9 or 4-12. You can see target clearly, and still retain some light, as opposed to using a 8-25 or something. Leupold makes the Mark AR for specific round, and and is either 3-9 or 4-12. Same specs as the Mark 4 but with smaller tube, and LOTS less $$$. Optics Planet will give good review ratings and pretty good prices usually. Please dont discount this rifle to be a great 300 to 500 accurate weapon, as well as your Zombie Killer.

 

[BadDudes4Hire]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Sorry,

To follow up as well. Find out what your twist rate is, and hopefully it is tighter, like 1-8 or 1-9 and then you can use a heavier bullet, like 68 to 75 grain bullet. This heavier bullet will allow you to reach out and touch with more accuracy as wind wont affect the shot like it would a 55 grainer.

Animalmother - I think I love your girlfriend based soley on the pics.LOL

Good luck with modifications.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have the Burris Tac30 and it is good for quick hits on I'd say plate sized targets, but it is by no means a precision optic. </div></div>

I know what youre saying. Im probably going to save for a PST or maybe a used one.

thanks

 

[callen3615]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JK one shot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry,

To follow up as well. Find out what your twist rate is, and hopefully it is tighter, like 1-8 or 1-9 and then you can use a heavier bullet, like 68 to 75 grain bullet. This heavier bullet will allow you to reach out and touch with more accuracy as wind wont affect the shot like it would a 55 grainer.

Animalmother - I think I love your girlfriend based soley on the pics.LOL

Good luck with modifications. </div></div>

You mean 1:7? 1:9 isnt tighter.

My upper is stock adams arms 16inch chrome lined 1:7.

 

[BadDudes4Hire]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Yeah, Hawk45 might agree, the last thing you want to do is spend $$ and be happy but still feel that for another $150 - 200 you would have been 100% set on optics. I have been there and hate that feeling.

 

[BadDudes4Hire]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Oh No. What I mean is a tighter twist like a 1:7 or 1:9. If you have a 1:11 or 1:12 or so, it is not quite enough to hold stability on a larger grain like the 68 to 75 grain bullet. I have the 18 inch BCM stainless steel and it is 1:8 twist. For this very reason. I can shoot 55s but it really likes 62 and 68s. Sorry for confusion.

 

[MSS]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

That barrel you have will optimize with some 75gr Hornady, try it and see how your gun groups at a true 100M. Your 25M isn't really giving you a true MOA read because there are other variables including your optics that can true out your true MOA on your gun. Example, you shoot a 25M hypothetical 1MOA at 100. then you go to shoot a squirrel in the head under optimal conditions with your M68 and miss an inch left, then is your gun really a 1MOA gun with you behind it? Walk out 100M get a variable powered scope, 1-4/1-8X and you can easily with that rifle have an accurate platform for precision shooting.
Good luck

 

[jn_fsu]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi, I would appreciate some help here. I have an adams arms 16 inch mid-length upper on a dpms lower:

I have always used it as a carbine and trained with it as such, practicing close range tactics and shooting positions. I practice shooting and moving, and shooting strongside/weakside.

While all of this is well and good, I have no use for a battle rifle. A carbine is great for fighting off zombies, but I haven't ran into any. What I have ran into is a lot of medium range shooting. 100-300 yards. I don't feel like breaking out the 308 to shoot something like a squirrel, balloon, or medium size steel at 200 yards. I also shoot squirrels in the woods on occasion, while the 22 is quiet and doesn't upset the neighbors it really isn't too effective at 100 yards, which is where I see most of my targets. I was thinking about getting a 17hmr for the squirrels, but Id rather not spend 800 dollars on another less than versatile rimfire and scope when I have a rifle chambered in 223 already.

I never shot groups with this rifle, never really cared. I never shot groups with my BCM upper either although I had heard bold accuracy claims. So out of curiosity I shot a few groups today, it was raining and visibility wasn't too great and the only sight i have is a primary arms 1x red dot. So I shot a few groups at 25 yards off a rucksack with american eagle 55gr. The rifle grouped around .350 from outside hole to outside hole. So center to center is something like 0.127, so that's about 1/2 inch groups at 100...theoretically, might be better if I have a scope with some magnification, maybe I flinched just right today. I would be surprised if it really shoots 1/2 moa at 100, I would be happy with 1 moa. I have read other reviews of adams arms accuracy and didn't really believe it. I guess I always believed that a gas piston system is detrimental to accuracy and GP would never be close to DI in accuracy. But lets not get into that, please.

So knowing all of that I'm beginning to ponder getting a 1-4x scope and maybe a different stock to use it against tree rats and medium distance targets.

My question is basically, how limiting is my 16 inch barrel? Id really like to put a decent scope on this thing and see what it can really do out to maybe 300-500 yards, but I'd like to know if I'm wasting my time and money. I'd really like to hunt squirrels out to 200 yards with it also. Am I asking too much of this rifle, or the 223 in general?

Thanks for the help </div></div>

I asked myself the same question and set out to build something in the nature you are speaking of.
I have a BCM 16" SS410 barreled upper, midlength gas system, 1/8 twist with there Nato Match (USMC SAM-R) chambering.
Originally I built it into a battle rifle before I realized the potential of the barrel. Once I established that I hadn't set up my rifle to it's optimum potential. I revamped it completely and the final pieces come in today which are the B5 Systems SopMod stock and Leupold Mark AR 3-9x40mm mil-dot scope. So far I've established my rifle groups alot better with 62gr verse 55gr ammo. I'm going to test 62gr, 69gr and 77gr (maybe some others) to see which ammo groups the best once I dial my scope in. I will be shooting out to 300 yards most times but I want to see what kind of precision shooting or groupings I can do out to 500-600 yards. I'll start a thread sometime in the next week with a full over view of what components I used to build my rifle with pics. Then once I get some range time I'll post the results...

Here are a few pics of where I started and my first revision. The Troy 9" standard TRX battlerail added too much weight to an already heavy front end. So I swapped out the rail for a Troy 9" TRX Extreme rail which (dropped 8 ounces) helped balance it alot but not as much as I wanted. The completely revampeded version I don't have pics yet. Hopefully I'll have it finished on Xmas day...

 

[KevinB-KAC]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

I'm a big fan of the 16" Recce Rifle type guns.

More so than the 18" SPR in fact.

I had KAC build me a 16" Recce Rifle in 2004, and took it to Afghan and Iraq.
I used a Douglas SPR barrel done with a Armalite Midlength gas system - KAC's SAM-R Gas Block and a custom fit rifle URX cut down.
Wylde chambered by CLE - it ran eveything with reliability and accuracy.

I took the 300M Deliberate with it in the 2004 Canadian National Service Conditions match (with an TA31 ACOG and Mk262) and came in second on the 500m Deliberate.

 

[DT1]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

To the OP, what type trigger is in your rifle? As others have said, your stick is gtg for what you want to do. If it has a mil-spec trigger, a better one will likely help your accuracy, not to mention make the rifle more enjoyable to shoot.

Regarding glass, good scopes will cost you but you definitely get what you pay for.

If you've got an inherently accurate barrel (sounds like you do) the main things to focus on are optics, trigger and practice. Stocks and other bolt on goodies are primarily for comfort and style.

Good luck!

 

[callen3615]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

The original dpms trigger. Im not crazy about it but i just added kns anti roll pins and it smoothed the pull out some. I had a good bit of take up tho. When I shoot groups I begin be taking up most of the slack first.

 

[DT1]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The original dpms trigger. Im not crazy about it but i just added kns anti roll pins and it smoothed the pull out some. I had a good bit of take up tho. When I shoot groups I begin be taking up most of the slack first. </div></div>

Sounds like a DPMS 2-stage trigger. I personally like 2-stage triggers and have a DPMS. I installed a set of JP Enterprises springs (yellow) and was pleased with the improved feel. Not a Geissele by any means, but pretty nice. The JP spring kit is fairly inexpensive and worth trying IMHO.

 

[GoBig]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Here's mine...I'm running a Timney Single Stage...I'm happy with it.

 

[BCP]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

If you want an accurate varmint load try a low charge of powder and a 60gr vmax. 2 stage triggers are my all around favorite if your DPMS stock trigger is single stage and breaks clean you could get JP springs for it. My DPMS stock triggers have always been clunky...

 

[MrLebowski]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Well here's a couple of pics of my 16" Rock River.

I used to have a VFG on the bottom but since these pics I've added a magpul AFG and I like it much more.
For optics I run an Eotech 557 with a Vortex 3x mag in a larue FTS mount.
I've been pretty impressed with it so far but the increased weight over a 1-X optic is a negitive.
I've considered selling it and getting a 1-X optic but I haven't talked my self into it just yet.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

There arnt too many options for affordable 1-x scopes. Im conflicted. I will probably get the vortex once i save up the cash.

 

[KevinB-KAC]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Look to Leupold's new Mk6 1-6 at SHOT

MSRP appears to be lower than S&B 1-4 price (fro what was released to me).

I've seen the early versions and it looks really good.

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Vortex makes a very nice MIL-MIL 1-4 in the PST line with a very good price point.

PST 1-4x24 TMCQ MRAD

 

[BadDudes4Hire]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Bump +1 on BulaMike's suggestion of 75 gr. b/c that is what your barrel really wants to shoot. Your barrel is gtg. 68s are okay too, but smaller grain with a 1:7 twist really have problems, unless you are using long tracer type mil. rounds. I dont know much varmit shootin going on with that round.

Bump on DPMS trigger being mediocre at best. It is okay, but there are some other triggers that make a good difference. JP single is great for $115, and if you can go $225 then Giessele Super Dynamic 3 Gun is TFA. Nothing better IMO.

Please say away from 1x scopes. They wont get you where you need.
Google this below and go shopping - Under $500 easy all day long, and I dont think you will be disappointed. It isnt Nightforce NXS but it is something you will be very pleased with performance.

Leupold Mark AR 4-12x40 Riflescope - Mil-Dot Reticle

 

[dorton]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Here's mine. Trijicon Accupoint 1-4 TR24, JP [email protected], 1:9" twist,shooting 69g, I can keep it on 4" plate at 400yds.

 

[j.c.]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Tac 30 has a 4 MOA center dot which would really hold you back. Viper PST or SWFA SS 1-4x is the WTG; if you can't afford it maybe the Millet DMS. I also like the red dot with flip to side magnifier option. Eotech is the best red dot for this since the middle dot is actually smaller than 1 MOA and will appear 1 MOA to your eye even under magnification.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.C.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tac 30 has a 4 MOA center dot which would really hold you back. Viper PST or SWFA SS 1-4x is the WTG; if you can't afford it maybe the Millet DMS. I also like the red dot with flip to side magnifier option. Eotech is the best red dot for this since the middle dot is actually smaller than 1 MOA and will appear 1 MOA to your eye even under magnification. </div></div>

While I do have a red dot scope with a 2 moa dot I would also like a 1-4x for hunting and plinking past 50 yards. I will keep the red dot if I ever need it.

I think I am going to pick up a cheap primary arms 1-4x for the time being and save for the PST 1-4x.

I have read good reviews about it. Seems like decent quality, just not too many features.
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_14X_24_Illuminated_Scope_p/pa%201-4x.htm

 

[nleaders]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Yeah, like the others have said, the extra two inches will short you between 100 and 200 fps. No real biggie. Save money on buying more gear, and just buy more ammo to practice with. More ammunition through that 16" is worth more than buying another upper and being strapped for ammo cash.

 

[jn_fsu]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

If you go to the DMR pics thread you will see a youtube vid of trident shooting a human size torso steel plate at 600 yard and 700+ yards with a 10.5" barreled SBR.

 

[jn_fsu]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Just finished mine tonight!

 

[jn_fsu]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Modified my rifle a little and added more pics...

 

[redirt78]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, a 16" will get you easily to 300. Optics.. I have the Burris Tac30 and it is good for quick hits on I'd say plate sized targets, but it is by no means a precision optic. The PST 1-4 would be a better option for smaller targets. Now, you could zero on one of the lower/smaller dots on the Tac30 if you want as well. </div></div>

I also have the Tac30, love it for what I use it for. 16" AR Truck gun and for stalking or jumping out on running hogs and a coyote if I see one. Use it mainly for 200 yds and in. I agree with Hawk and I don't think its a good choice for a precision reticle for long range/small targets. Great for up close, low light or steel and hogs for longer distances but the reticle would probably hold you back on LR squirrels and such.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

nice

 

[shooterman_zero17]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dorton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's mine. Trijicon Accupoint 1-4 TR24, JP [email protected], 1:9" twist,shooting 69g, I can keep it on 4" plate at 400yds.

</div></div>

I'm a huge fan of this rifle. So much so, that:

Didn't really copy it. I just like it.

It shoots like this at 100 yards with 69grSMKs:

2 best groups so far.

 

[regatoni5]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

My girlfriend's(black) and mine (green)

beautiful stick! what did the green one run you?

 

[darthceadus]

Re: Opinions on a 16 inch spr?

Like jn fsu said Google trident 1982 watch him smoke steel bad guys out to 700-800 yards no problem . He uses a 16 inch reece rifle I don't remember what power scope . You should have no getting those tree rats and a little paper out to 300 yards . Excuse my spelling I'm on a cell phone